after you have answered these questions, look at your answers. Do your answers show more or less faith than the person who says, "God must have designed it"
Is it possible that an unseen Creator designed this universe? If God is excluded at the beginning of the discussion by your definition of science, how could it be shown that He did create the universe if He did?
also:
Do people accept evolution because of the following factors?:
It is all they have been taught.
They like the freedom from God (no moral absolutes, etc.).
They are bound to support the theory for fear of losing their job or status or grade point average.
They are too proud to admit they are wrong.
Evolution is the only philosophy that can be used to justify their political agenda.
Should we continue to use outdated, disproved, questionable, or inconclusive evidences to support the theory of evolution because we don?t have a suitable substitute (Piltdown man, recapitulation, archaeopteryx, Lucy, Java man, Neanderthal man, horse evolution, vestigial organs, etc.)?
Why are many evolutionists afraid of the idea of creationism being presented in public schools?_ If we are not supposed to teach religion in schools, then why not get evolution out of the textbooks?_ It is just a religious worldview.
I am Christian with corresponding values. I am against adultery, fornication, and homosexual intercourse. I oppose the recognition of homosexual unions within Christianity, but I promote the recognition of homosexual unions within the government. I feel completely at peace with my positions both religiously and politically.
Respectfully,
Alexander the Great
Just for the purpose of clarification on your last point:
Not all those who call themselves Christian ascribe to the particular views that you set out with respect to fornication and homosexual relations, neither do the doctrines of their particular churches. It is important for you and others to recognize this. I am always taken aback when people, both certain Christians and many non-religious persons, represent such views as being synonymous with a Christian identification.
Actually, I don?t recall seeing in the Bible that Jesus spent much time condemning homosexual relations or sex without marriage.
after you have answered these questions, look at your answers. Do your answers show more or less faith than the person who says, "God must have designed it"
The problem is how you're asking your questions, and what you're expecting from the answers.
It's as if you're saying "My God theory answers 34,204 questions that I can think of. Evolution answers only 6. My theory is better!"
More is not always better.
A theory is supposed to be limited in scope. For instance, quite often people attacking evolution fail to make any distinctions between cosmology, biogenesis (yes, that's a little nod to the Bible in that scientific word), and evolution of species.
I can easily create a theory that answers everything. How about this one: I created everything. Silly? Yes, but try to falsify it with me. I'll have a answer for every challenge you can think of. How? Because my responses will have nothing to do with gathering evidence, they'll all be "just so" answers that seal off all avenues of attack as mistaken or irrelevant.
You need to learn a whole lot more about what science is and how it works before you go talking about what is and is not masquerading as science.
None of the major religions are, in my estimation, other than Buddhism maybe, and even that has its fairy tale aspects.
A Buddhist once told me that Buddhism alone isn't a religion. It's more of a humanist metaphysical philosophy. It's really a beautiful concept, though, and I'd argue that it's certainly possible to be a buddhist and a Christian, for example.
I don't know much about Mormons, but do you guys really believe that the American Indians were the 12th tribe of Israel exiled to North America, along with all that other mythical stuff that is way off the scientifically understood timeline?
I may be way off. I don't know any mormons, so my whole knowledge may be based on a telephone-like game of hearsay.
after you have answered these questions, look at your answers. Do your answers show more or less faith than the person who says, "God must have designed it"
Shetline adequately addressed the major error of your reasoning, but allow me to elaborate...[Edited out "Last Tuesday Theory" because it is totally redundant to Shetline's point. Sorry, didn't scroll enough...]
Search my posts and you will find that I'm always ready to explore a question on evolution, but in my experience I have learned some important pre-requisites for a useful discussion...
1. Don't take over other threads, if you want to debate evolution, start a new thread on the subject, but try to avoid flooding a semi-related thread with a bazillion evolution questions.
2. Admit whether or not there could ever be any scientific evidence that could convince you of the validity of evolutionary theory.
If you are truly interested in exploring the subject start another thread (with evolution in the title), quoting this post and I'll be glad to discuss it with you. There appears to be a lot of knowledgeable people on this forum and the discussions are usually civil.
Actually, I don?t recall seeing in the Bible that Jesus spent much time condemning homosexual relations or sex without marriage.
that's because jesus hung out with 12 guys and one chick (who was a prostitute, yet never sleep with any of the guys)...
not that i am saying jesus was "light in the loafers", but he was tall and thin and unmarried in his 30's....put that same situation in new york and .... well, nevermind
While this theory does explain quite a lot (everything in fact) it has zero predictive value, can't be tested, confirmed, or negated.
That's why it's called FAITH. You see, some people just believe and don't feel like they have to have quantitative data to prove or disprove their beliefs.
Others, like myself, take a middle ground. I look at what I believe and say, is there some sort of scientific/quantitative/logical reasoning that can actually explain this. Most of the time -- maybe surprisingly to you -- there is.
I don't see my religious beliefs as the end-all explanation for the world. I agree that that's naive and short-sighted. On the flip side, I can't say that everything can be explained by science. I've seen too many "unexplainables." So in my life, science and religion work hand in hand to shape my picture of existence...and so far it's worked pretty well.
that's because jesus hung out with 12 guys and one chick (who was a prostitute, yet never sleep with any of the guys)...
not that i am saying jesus was "light in the loafers", but he was tall and thin and unmarried in his 30's....put that same situation in new york and .... well, nevermind
g
Who said she never slept with any of the guys....?
Actually, I thought that there are some Christian scholars who seriously think that he was not only tempted but her, but was married to her.
As for possible alernative preferences...I am a liberal Christian and it would not undermine my faith a bit.
That's why it's called FAITH. You see, some people just believe and don't feel like they have to have quantitative data to prove or disprove their beliefs.
And that's fine, so long as they aren't trying to present faith as science or trying to use their faith to make judgements on public policy that effects others (like me).
Is it possible that an unseen Creator designed this universe? If God is excluded at the beginning of the discussion by your definition of science, how could it be shown that He did create the universe if He did?
also:
Do people accept evolution because of the following factors?:
It is all they have been taught.
They like the freedom from God (no moral absolutes, etc.).
They are bound to support the theory for fear of losing their job or status or grade point average.
They are too proud to admit they are wrong.
Evolution is the only philosophy that can be used to justify their political agenda.
Should we continue to use outdated, disproved, questionable, or inconclusive evidences to support the theory of evolution because we don?t have a suitable substitute (Piltdown man, recapitulation, archaeopteryx, Lucy, Java man, Neanderthal man, horse evolution, vestigial organs, etc.)?
Why are many evolutionists afraid of the idea of creationism being presented in public schools?_ If we are not supposed to teach religion in schools, then why not get evolution out of the textbooks?_ It is just a religious worldview.
LOL.
People accept evolution for the same reason they accept gravity and DNA - overwhelming evidence.
Belief in evolution in no way excludes a belief in god.
People support the theory of evolution because it is the best theory to date that explains the evidence. In over 150 years, no one has come up with a better theory. We are all still waiting for creationists to produce one.
Evolution is not outdated or disproved to anyone who understands what it is saying. It is always questionable, as are all good scientific theories.
Creationism can be taught in public schools - in the religious lessons, where it belongs.
Get over it.
Do we really need another creationists ignorance fest?
Who said she never slept with any of the guys....?
Actually, I thought that there are some Christian scholars who seriously think that he was not only tempted but her, but was married to her.
As for possible alernative preferences...I am a liberal Christian and it would not undermine my faith a bit.
Actually, I believe that most Biblical scholars will tell you that Mary M. was not a prostitute and has typically been confused with someone else in the bible. At least that's what I learned on the history channel.
I am Christian with corresponding values. I am against adultery, fornication, and homosexual intercourse. I oppose the recognition of homosexual unions within Christianity, but I promote the recognition of homosexual unions within the government. I feel completely at peace with my positions both religiously and politically.
Respectfully,
Alexander the Great
How tolerant of you.
What consenting adults do is none of your business. Never has been, never will be.
Consenting adults don't need your approval, or the church's approval.
Never have, never will.
Homosexual christians will continue to ignore you, those like you, and the church.
Feel free to have your opinion. Don't expect it to matter to anyone but yourself.
OK. I don't think (or hope not anyways) that your post was directed at me...but here it goes:
Let me at first preface this that I am not a strict aherent to LaVey's take on Satanism. Personally, I think his take was far too 'modern-human' and shortsighted, as well as some reaching 'justification' for his beliefs. IMHO, of course...
Given that, the main reason I sway towards Satanism is that it holds a very 'humanist' set of ideals. Basically, you're on your own. If you fvck up...well, my friend, you fvcked up. Deal with the consequences.
There are also no rules. I abhor rules, and will generally go out of my way to either break them out of spite or avoid them all together. There are guidelines. A few simple principles that most everyone here would agree are reasonable. You don't have to follow them at all, of course, but you would be stupid if you didn't. And we're all stupid.
And before some ill-informed putz asks me why I enjoy sacrificing cats, I'll just say that that's very fringe. It would be like me asking a Christian if they get tired of buggering 13 year olds.
Comments
also:
Do people accept evolution because of the following factors?:
It is all they have been taught.
They like the freedom from God (no moral absolutes, etc.).
They are bound to support the theory for fear of losing their job or status or grade point average.
They are too proud to admit they are wrong.
Evolution is the only philosophy that can be used to justify their political agenda.
Should we continue to use outdated, disproved, questionable, or inconclusive evidences to support the theory of evolution because we don?t have a suitable substitute (Piltdown man, recapitulation, archaeopteryx, Lucy, Java man, Neanderthal man, horse evolution, vestigial organs, etc.)?
Why are many evolutionists afraid of the idea of creationism being presented in public schools?_ If we are not supposed to teach religion in schools, then why not get evolution out of the textbooks?_ It is just a religious worldview.
Originally posted by Alexander the Great
[...]
I am Christian with corresponding values. I am against adultery, fornication, and homosexual intercourse. I oppose the recognition of homosexual unions within Christianity, but I promote the recognition of homosexual unions within the government. I feel completely at peace with my positions both religiously and politically.
Respectfully,
Alexander the Great
Just for the purpose of clarification on your last point:
Not all those who call themselves Christian ascribe to the particular views that you set out with respect to fornication and homosexual relations, neither do the doctrines of their particular churches. It is important for you and others to recognize this. I am always taken aback when people, both certain Christians and many non-religious persons, represent such views as being synonymous with a Christian identification.
Actually, I don?t recall seeing in the Bible that Jesus spent much time condemning homosexual relations or sex without marriage.
Originally posted by mattjohndrow
after you have answered these questions, look at your answers. Do your answers show more or less faith than the person who says, "God must have designed it"
The problem is how you're asking your questions, and what you're expecting from the answers.
It's as if you're saying "My God theory answers 34,204 questions that I can think of. Evolution answers only 6. My theory is better!"
More is not always better.
A theory is supposed to be limited in scope. For instance, quite often people attacking evolution fail to make any distinctions between cosmology, biogenesis (yes, that's a little nod to the Bible in that scientific word), and evolution of species.
I can easily create a theory that answers everything. How about this one: I created everything. Silly? Yes, but try to falsify it with me. I'll have a answer for every challenge you can think of. How? Because my responses will have nothing to do with gathering evidence, they'll all be "just so" answers that seal off all avenues of attack as mistaken or irrelevant.
You need to learn a whole lot more about what science is and how it works before you go talking about what is and is not masquerading as science.
Originally posted by Moogs
None of the major religions are, in my estimation, other than Buddhism maybe, and even that has its fairy tale aspects.
A Buddhist once told me that Buddhism alone isn't a religion. It's more of a humanist metaphysical philosophy. It's really a beautiful concept, though, and I'd argue that it's certainly possible to be a buddhist and a Christian, for example.
Originally posted by Alexander the Great
I'm LDS (Mormon).
I don't know much about Mormons, but do you guys really believe that the American Indians were the 12th tribe of Israel exiled to North America, along with all that other mythical stuff that is way off the scientifically understood timeline?
I may be way off. I don't know any mormons, so my whole knowledge may be based on a telephone-like game of hearsay.
Originally posted by mattjohndrow
after you have answered these questions, look at your answers. Do your answers show more or less faith than the person who says, "God must have designed it"
Shetline adequately addressed the major error of your reasoning, but allow me to elaborate...[Edited out "Last Tuesday Theory" because it is totally redundant to Shetline's point. Sorry, didn't scroll enough...]
Search my posts and you will find that I'm always ready to explore a question on evolution, but in my experience I have learned some important pre-requisites for a useful discussion...
1. Don't take over other threads, if you want to debate evolution, start a new thread on the subject, but try to avoid flooding a semi-related thread with a bazillion evolution questions.
2. Admit whether or not there could ever be any scientific evidence that could convince you of the validity of evolutionary theory.
If you are truly interested in exploring the subject start another thread (with evolution in the title), quoting this post and I'll be glad to discuss it with you. There appears to be a lot of knowledgeable people on this forum and the discussions are usually civil.
Originally posted by Chinney
Actually, I don?t recall seeing in the Bible that Jesus spent much time condemning homosexual relations or sex without marriage.
that's because jesus hung out with 12 guys and one chick (who was a prostitute, yet never sleep with any of the guys)...
not that i am saying jesus was "light in the loafers", but he was tall and thin and unmarried in his 30's....put that same situation in new york and .... well, nevermind
g
Originally posted by Nordstrodamus
While this theory does explain quite a lot (everything in fact) it has zero predictive value, can't be tested, confirmed, or negated.
That's why it's called FAITH. You see, some people just believe and don't feel like they have to have quantitative data to prove or disprove their beliefs.
Others, like myself, take a middle ground. I look at what I believe and say, is there some sort of scientific/quantitative/logical reasoning that can actually explain this. Most of the time -- maybe surprisingly to you -- there is.
I don't see my religious beliefs as the end-all explanation for the world. I agree that that's naive and short-sighted. On the flip side, I can't say that everything can be explained by science. I've seen too many "unexplainables." So in my life, science and religion work hand in hand to shape my picture of existence...and so far it's worked pretty well.
Originally posted by thegelding
that's because jesus hung out with 12 guys and one chick (who was a prostitute, yet never sleep with any of the guys)...
not that i am saying jesus was "light in the loafers", but he was tall and thin and unmarried in his 30's....put that same situation in new york and .... well, nevermind
g
Who said she never slept with any of the guys....?
Actually, I thought that there are some Christian scholars who seriously think that he was not only tempted but her, but was married to her.
As for possible alernative preferences...I am a liberal Christian and it would not undermine my faith a bit.
Originally posted by CosmoNut
That's why it's called FAITH. You see, some people just believe and don't feel like they have to have quantitative data to prove or disprove their beliefs.
And that's fine, so long as they aren't trying to present faith as science or trying to use their faith to make judgements on public policy that effects others (like me).
Originally posted by mattjohndrow
Is it possible that an unseen Creator designed this universe? If God is excluded at the beginning of the discussion by your definition of science, how could it be shown that He did create the universe if He did?
also:
Do people accept evolution because of the following factors?:
It is all they have been taught.
They like the freedom from God (no moral absolutes, etc.).
They are bound to support the theory for fear of losing their job or status or grade point average.
They are too proud to admit they are wrong.
Evolution is the only philosophy that can be used to justify their political agenda.
Should we continue to use outdated, disproved, questionable, or inconclusive evidences to support the theory of evolution because we don?t have a suitable substitute (Piltdown man, recapitulation, archaeopteryx, Lucy, Java man, Neanderthal man, horse evolution, vestigial organs, etc.)?
Why are many evolutionists afraid of the idea of creationism being presented in public schools?_ If we are not supposed to teach religion in schools, then why not get evolution out of the textbooks?_ It is just a religious worldview.
LOL.
People accept evolution for the same reason they accept gravity and DNA - overwhelming evidence.
Belief in evolution in no way excludes a belief in god.
People support the theory of evolution because it is the best theory to date that explains the evidence. In over 150 years, no one has come up with a better theory. We are all still waiting for creationists to produce one.
Evolution is not outdated or disproved to anyone who understands what it is saying. It is always questionable, as are all good scientific theories.
Creationism can be taught in public schools - in the religious lessons, where it belongs.
Get over it.
Do we really need another creationists ignorance fest?
Originally posted by Chinney
Who said she never slept with any of the guys....?
Actually, I thought that there are some Christian scholars who seriously think that he was not only tempted but her, but was married to her.
As for possible alernative preferences...I am a liberal Christian and it would not undermine my faith a bit.
Actually, I believe that most Biblical scholars will tell you that Mary M. was not a prostitute and has typically been confused with someone else in the bible. At least that's what I learned on the history channel.
Originally posted by Alexander the Great
I am Christian with corresponding values. I am against adultery, fornication, and homosexual intercourse. I oppose the recognition of homosexual unions within Christianity, but I promote the recognition of homosexual unions within the government. I feel completely at peace with my positions both religiously and politically.
Respectfully,
Alexander the Great
How tolerant of you.
What consenting adults do is none of your business. Never has been, never will be.
Consenting adults don't need your approval, or the church's approval.
Never have, never will.
Homosexual christians will continue to ignore you, those like you, and the church.
Feel free to have your opinion. Don't expect it to matter to anyone but yourself.
A lot of fellow Christians on these boards too, so it seems.
Thanks,
Fellows
- I do have respect for religions and religious people.
- But history tells me that religions are the cause of 50% of wars.
- Politics are the other half ;-) (Ok. that's not funny)
- So religions don't bother me if they stay strict private domain.
- To me necessary morals values were replaced by Human Right Declaration a few centuries ago...
- Religions should be folklore. Unfortunately they still rule a good half of the planet. The problem is here.
Originally posted by Fellowship
State what you believe and why. Refrain from picking at other members.
Thanks,
Fellows
No offense pal, but this isn't a self help group. Dynamics and arguments are what make this place enjoyable.
Originally posted by Fellowship
State what you believe and why.
OK. I don't think (or hope not anyways) that your post was directed at me...but here it goes:
Let me at first preface this that I am not a strict aherent to LaVey's take on Satanism. Personally, I think his take was far too 'modern-human' and shortsighted, as well as some reaching 'justification' for his beliefs. IMHO, of course...
Given that, the main reason I sway towards Satanism is that it holds a very 'humanist' set of ideals. Basically, you're on your own. If you fvck up...well, my friend, you fvcked up. Deal with the consequences.
There are also no rules. I abhor rules, and will generally go out of my way to either break them out of spite or avoid them all together. There are guidelines. A few simple principles that most everyone here would agree are reasonable. You don't have to follow them at all, of course, but you would be stupid if you didn't. And we're all stupid.
And before some ill-informed putz asks me why I enjoy sacrificing cats, I'll just say that that's very fringe. It would be like me asking a Christian if they get tired of buggering 13 year olds.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
No offense pal, but this isn't a self help group. Dynamics and arguments are what make this place enjoyable.
Agreed.