I have to agree with alexander on this one. The iMac was very simple, and yet expandable. Don't forget "Think Simple". The iMac is a machine for the PITS (Person in the Street). The PITS idea was that anyone could plug in the computer, with minimal hassle, and be greeted with a very friendly OS. Both hardware and software had to be simple yet stable and efficient. That was the concept behind the original 128k mac, and became the concept behind the iMac. I don't think Apple would make it more complicated for the person in the street, henceforth no "cube" like iMac. The cube was a good concept, but it died. Get over it.
Alexander: I don´t think they would offer the new iMac with different screens. It would be sold with a 15 inch LCD (an more simple and rough version than their "pro" 15 inch) for no other reason than to seperate it from the PowerMacs. I can see a problem with the speakers but it easier to come up with a solution to that problem than to make another model. It could be build in the monitor if they made the part of the monitor under the screen thicker (=less elegant than the pro 15 inch) or include the old Cube speakers (yes I know: now two more wires than the current iMac but frankly: How stupid IS the average computer buying american? Do he also need help plugging in the coffee machine? The speakers have a USB connector so he won´t try to connect it to the VCR).
Mike I disagree. It would make a hit also in the press. Whenthe Cube was released the press was amazed but saw the price as a problem. If we got a cheaper Cube-as-iMac they would say "Finally Apple got it right. A stylish computer at a reasonable price". And remember the press releass where Apple put the <a href="http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2001/jul/03cube.html"; target="_blank">Cube on ice</a>
As a person who is planning on buying one of the new iMacs on the 7th... I must say that, despite how much i would love a cube ( i think its gorgeous) it would be a marketing nightmare. From a financial point of view, most investors will say that the cube was a horrible mistake. Just as there are many of us that view the cube as a brilliant piece of engineering, there are also many people who still associate it with "wow, apple sure screwed up". I don't know how easy it would be to change those ideas. Whenever Apple unveils a new product, the hype surrounding it has as much to do with its appearance as it does its specs. I could just imagine Jobs being interviewed on MSNBC with his "new iMac" and hearing the interviewer say "Steve, isn't that a cube? wasn't that a huge mistake last year?"
To sum up my point, as much as I love the Cube, i just don't know if the RDF is strong enough to make non-macaddicts view a new iMac cube as something different than the old cube that failed miserably.
but hey, as i said before, if it is a new cube, i'd be the first in line to buy one.
Scates, good thinking. I love the idea but the thing I hate with the Cube is the ports on the bottom. Real pain in the ass. Besides the ports problem the Cube would be a perfect replacement fot the iMac.
I really don't understand this argument that Apple will not produce anything but an all-in-one consumer machine because it wouldn't be simple?!
Over 90% of consumers seem to struggle on with the grotesque set-ups of the majority of Windows machines. It may be awkard and require some people to call tech support, but I didn't see any sign that many of those 90% switched to the iMac because it was all-in-one.
Though I agree that a Cube resurrection would be a bad idea, I don't see why Apple couldn't produce something just slightly larger than the Nintendo Cube and bundle it with a 15 inch ADC display. It'd be a piece of cake to set up for anyone who gave their kids a Nintendo, Playstation 2, X-Box, or whatever else for Christmas.
Larger displays could be offered as BTO options.
Get the design right, and you've got a machine that's infinitely more luggable than the current beast, and only one step more difficult to set up - after the keyboard, mouse, power and network connections go in, there's one simple connector for the display. Hardly a terrifying prospect!
I would rather see a microtower slightly bigger than the Cube with a front loading CD/DVD, front and rear mounted ports, internal power supply, and good access hatch.
As far as an all in one LCD iMac looking like the PC offerings, that is true in a way, but I put my faith in Ives. Apple will always find a way to Look Different.
Yeah, I guess so. Don't know much about the economics of it all.
But regarding the whole "all-in-one = simple, two-piece = complicated", I guess I expect too much from people.
I don't buy into or accept that as the reason for anything. Economics? Sure. Marketing standpoint? Yes. Bad taste left by previous Cube experience? Why not. Those are all legitimate, good points as to why it probably won't happen.
But the other stuff:
Are there really this many helpless dumbasses out there? Can one cable truly be THAT much of a setback to the current computer-buying public?
I mean, wouldn't these same exact people wander into CompUSA, a Gateway store or a Sears and buy some wild-ass tower/monitor/printer/speaker PC? And those aren't going to have a cool ADC type of connection. Have you seen the cabling and wiring coming out of the average PC?
Believe me...anything Apple puts out HAS to be an improvement in ease-of-use over 90% of PCs being sold as we speak.
I don't work in a computer store, so I guess I don't see the extent to which most computer buyers are clueless and have to have their hands held through the entire process.
I guess it's simply too much to ask that people do a little pro-active research on their own and educate themselves and that Apple and computer stores make sure the right information is being given to these buyers, especially first-time buyers.
Sorry, guys...but I don't buy that whole "a cube and a monitor is too tough for people" bullcrap. If those people aren't buying an iMac, then they're going to go buy a PC and I guarantee you that there are more cable, wires and connection/hooking up hassles in your average PC than in ANYTHING Apple is currently producing.
Haha...Belle, you must've posted yours "can't be any worse than a PC set-up..." post as I was writing mine.
You should see the cables and wires coming out of my Mom's Compaq. Holy crap. And she's nowhere near a hard-core, "power user". But she can read a manual and figure it out.
Anything Apple did would involve two less cables right off the bat, thanks to ADC.
not that anyone needs any more of a sign that a new iMac is coming, but macwarehouse is not only giving away free RAM, but also a free TV tuner of sorts and a free printer with purchase of an iMac... the suspense is killing me. i want a time machine.
God, how I'd love for this to somehow happen next Monday because I'd love to rub it in the face of a few of you.
"Can't, won't, shouldn't, wouldn't, impossible, never happen, etc..."
Jeez.
[closing my eyes and wishing REALLY hard for a two-piece iMac...star light, star bright, first star I s...]
Many of you probably didn't think the new iBook would be white and square and lacking colors. And you probably didn't think Apple had an mp3 player up their sleeve either.
You guys know EXACTLY as much as I do...which is, basically, NOTHING.
<strong>As a person who is planning on buying one of the new iMacs on the 7th... I must say that, despite how much i would love a cube ( i think its gorgeous) it would be a marketing nightmare. From a financial point of view, most investors will say that the cube was a horrible mistake. Just as there are many of us that view the cube as a brilliant piece of engineering, there are also many people who still associate it with "wow, apple sure screwed up". I don't know how easy it would be to change those ideas. Whenever Apple unveils a new product, the hype surrounding it has as much to do with its appearance as it does its specs. I could just imagine Jobs being interviewed on MSNBC with his "new iMac" and hearing the interviewer say "Steve, isn't that a cube? wasn't that a huge mistake last year?"
To sum up my point, as much as I love the Cube, i just don't know if the RDF is strong enough to make non-macaddicts view a new iMac cube as something different than the old cube that failed miserably.
but hey, as i said before, if it is a new cube, i'd be the first in line to buy one.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I disagree. Apple is not stupid enough to call the new iMac the "iMac Cube" or something similiar. We are using the term cube in this forum as a common point of reference. If Apple would redesign the G4 Cube to eliminate its orginial short-coming and call it the "iMac" I don't believe investors or media would consider it an automatic failure just because it is cubed shaped.
The reason Apple put the G4 Cube on "ice" is because it didn't really have a place in Apple's consumer or pro line-up at the time (we all agree on this). If MacWorld brings PowerMac G5 to light, and wants to move it's iMac line to the G4, then all of the sudden a modified G4 Cube could easily fit into it's consumer line-up.
Apple could easily sell only two iMacs. One with a 15" LCD monitor and one without . Plain and simple. If you want to add a 21" CRT monitor or purchase an Apple LCD monitor, its up to you.
[quote]Originally posted by sobelizzard:[QB "Steve, isn't that a cube? wasn't that a huge mistake last year?"[/QB]<hr></blockquote>
Steve: "Yes it was a big mistake because we we tried to sell our most exclusive computer ever at a exclusive price. We learned from that and have now decided to sell the worlds most exclusive computer for a price that you yesterday "only" could get our basic computer for"
Listen to yourself: Everybody would love to have this thing but don´t think the investors/Joe Average/whatever would like it. Well Joe Average is no more average than us and the investors love what customers love and even more if it didn´t cost anything to develop. Then more money can go into the development of the iPod II
<strong>God, how I'd love for this to somehow happen next Monday because I'd love to rub it in the face of a few of you.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
You know, I don't disagree that a stand-alone iMac without a monitor is a good idea - cheaper price, more monitor options. I just don't think it's going to happen. Apple doesn't have anything to gain by de-coupling the monitor. It won't make a CRT so the only option is left is a 17" LCD that will be far too expensive for the iMac buyer. And if people don't get the monitor from Apple, then Apple isn't making as much money on the iMac because they've lost the monitor sale.
If it's integrated there no extra cables, power adaptors, plugs etc... And they can keep the price as cheap as possible. It will have more or less the same screen as the pismo powerbook, which is a very good size for most things.
But if you're right and they do make the iMac a cute little cube, we'll probably be seeing a cheapo 15" iMac monitor crop up too...
All I know is that was an awful lot of research and design work with the cube to just discontinue it after a year.
I don't see why a cube like design should be more expensive than the all in one. An external power-supply should be inherently cheaper. You commision/buy a unit and don't have to worry about heat/current etc issues with the PS in the case. In fact the design and build of the all-in-one iMac probably makes it more expensive than a generic tower and monitor PC combination -- tighter tolerances, and a lot of work to sort out the monitor, PS, motherboard heat and current issues.
You take a cube. You leave the AGP slot, and I/O compliment. You drop one of the ram slots, and you put in an easier to fab G3 or Apollo (later on). Not to mention cheaper combo/slot loads. Without a monitor, you could sell one easily for 799. It ought to be just as cheap if not cheaper to produce than the iMac. It's even easier to update throught it's minimum 2 - 3 year life cycle. Apple can add newer video cards/faster CPu's without revising the MoBo.
You can sell a 799 version (without monitor) and a 999 version (with monitor), and more expensive versions with combo drives and huge HDDs.
I think that you're overlooking the tangle factor.
The external power brick and external speakers made the cube have a LOT of tangle factor. Very different from the iMac ethos of "2 plugs and you're on the internet" of old. It may not be the forefront anymore, but it's still paramount.
I even believe that the wire tangle with the new iMac (all in one, natch) will be further reduced with, get this, wireless keyboard and mouse.
Not bluetooth, necessarily. AirPort could be adapted for this, i'm sure.
I haven't done alot of research, and maybe I have missed a fact announcing that it will definately be a 15" LCD....but something tells me that we might be greeted with a 14"LCD. If you consider that when Apple terminated the 17" CRT, it replaced it with an LCD of pretty much the same viewable area (remember, I said "pretty much") of the CRT. The people will not lose screen size, just gain in screen quality.
Also, about the talk of a 2 piece iMac, I think that we will still see the iMac as a one-piece. I manage an Apple reseller here in Australia, and you can't imagine how many people are amazed at the all-in-one design and no-clutter feature of the iMac. The simplistic design of the iMac is what made it the success it has been to date. My only wish, and I know it wont happen, is to see just one PCI slot in the iMac. So many musicians and the like who want to buy a low cost machine and need to put in a better sound card etc would be a God-send!!
Whatever they decide to make the iMac, you can bet you last buck that it will be a killer. This is Apple's bread and butter product. They screw that up, they're gonna make their life very difficult.
Finally, on a slightly different note, I am so glad that Apple themselves in the States are entering the retail market, for as you may not know, Australia has had a very much established Apple retail presence. I think you will start to see Apple behaving differently in regards to product announcements/retail behaviour etc. They are in the retail boat now, and will realise that retail is a very different animal to phone/mail order!! They will start to see things the retailer's way!
That could indeedy be a neat solution. It needn't be too expensive either, but I think the cables really aren't that much of an issue. One power line. One ADC line. One phone-line/DSL whatever... and speakers. Not so bad. Don't forget ADC. I hate USB audio, but since ADC carries USB anyway, they could build a 15" studio display with two small speakers in the feet. This could explain the new order of 15" LCDs.
But seriously, I've seen a few cubes, and they never look cluttered or busy. It's really just one more cable. Very doable.
Comments
Mike
[ 12-30-2001: Message edited by: Anders ]</p>
To sum up my point, as much as I love the Cube, i just don't know if the RDF is strong enough to make non-macaddicts view a new iMac cube as something different than the old cube that failed miserably.
but hey, as i said before, if it is a new cube, i'd be the first in line to buy one.
[ 12-30-2001: Message edited by: Anders ]</p>
the iMac is an all-in-one. it's a success because its an all-in-one, it's cheap because its an all-in-one, its cool because its an all-in-one.
this idea makes no sense. the only place a cube has is if it is between the iMac and PowerMac.
I do not think it will happen though.
Having everything in one unit is inevitably cheaper to produce than having 2 separate pieces.
I do agree that the ADC connector makes hooking up everything a no-brainer.
But still.....
Over 90% of consumers seem to struggle on with the grotesque set-ups of the majority of Windows machines. It may be awkard and require some people to call tech support, but I didn't see any sign that many of those 90% switched to the iMac because it was all-in-one.
Though I agree that a Cube resurrection would be a bad idea, I don't see why Apple couldn't produce something just slightly larger than the Nintendo Cube and bundle it with a 15 inch ADC display. It'd be a piece of cake to set up for anyone who gave their kids a Nintendo, Playstation 2, X-Box, or whatever else for Christmas.
Larger displays could be offered as BTO options.
Get the design right, and you've got a machine that's infinitely more luggable than the current beast, and only one step more difficult to set up - after the keyboard, mouse, power and network connections go in, there's one simple connector for the display. Hardly a terrifying prospect!
As far as an all in one LCD iMac looking like the PC offerings, that is true in a way, but I put my faith in Ives. Apple will always find a way to Look Different.
Chris
But regarding the whole "all-in-one = simple, two-piece = complicated", I guess I expect too much from people.
I don't buy into or accept that as the reason for anything. Economics? Sure. Marketing standpoint? Yes. Bad taste left by previous Cube experience? Why not. Those are all legitimate, good points as to why it probably won't happen.
But the other stuff:
Are there really this many helpless dumbasses out there? Can one cable truly be THAT much of a setback to the current computer-buying public?
I mean, wouldn't these same exact people wander into CompUSA, a Gateway store or a Sears and buy some wild-ass tower/monitor/printer/speaker PC? And those aren't going to have a cool ADC type of connection. Have you seen the cabling and wiring coming out of the average PC?
Believe me...anything Apple puts out HAS to be an improvement in ease-of-use over 90% of PCs being sold as we speak.
I don't work in a computer store, so I guess I don't see the extent to which most computer buyers are clueless and have to have their hands held through the entire process.
I guess it's simply too much to ask that people do a little pro-active research on their own and educate themselves and that Apple and computer stores make sure the right information is being given to these buyers, especially first-time buyers.
Sorry, guys...but I don't buy that whole "a cube and a monitor is too tough for people" bullcrap. If those people aren't buying an iMac, then they're going to go buy a PC and I guarantee you that there are more cable, wires and connection/hooking up hassles in your average PC than in ANYTHING Apple is currently producing.
Give me a break.
[ 12-30-2001: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
You should see the cables and wires coming out of my Mom's Compaq. Holy crap. And she's nowhere near a hard-core, "power user". But she can read a manual and figure it out.
Anything Apple did would involve two less cables right off the bat, thanks to ADC.
<a href="http://www2.warehouse.com/apple/promos/applematrixa.asp"; target="_blank">http://www2.warehouse.com/apple/promos/applematrixa.asp</a>;
"Can't, won't, shouldn't, wouldn't, impossible, never happen, etc..."
Jeez.
[closing my eyes and wishing REALLY hard for a two-piece iMac...star light, star bright, first star I s...]
Many of you probably didn't think the new iBook would be white and square and lacking colors. And you probably didn't think Apple had an mp3 player up their sleeve either.
You guys know EXACTLY as much as I do...which is, basically, NOTHING.
[ 12-30-2001: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
<strong>As a person who is planning on buying one of the new iMacs on the 7th... I must say that, despite how much i would love a cube ( i think its gorgeous) it would be a marketing nightmare. From a financial point of view, most investors will say that the cube was a horrible mistake. Just as there are many of us that view the cube as a brilliant piece of engineering, there are also many people who still associate it with "wow, apple sure screwed up". I don't know how easy it would be to change those ideas. Whenever Apple unveils a new product, the hype surrounding it has as much to do with its appearance as it does its specs. I could just imagine Jobs being interviewed on MSNBC with his "new iMac" and hearing the interviewer say "Steve, isn't that a cube? wasn't that a huge mistake last year?"
To sum up my point, as much as I love the Cube, i just don't know if the RDF is strong enough to make non-macaddicts view a new iMac cube as something different than the old cube that failed miserably.
but hey, as i said before, if it is a new cube, i'd be the first in line to buy one.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I disagree. Apple is not stupid enough to call the new iMac the "iMac Cube" or something similiar. We are using the term cube in this forum as a common point of reference. If Apple would redesign the G4 Cube to eliminate its orginial short-coming and call it the "iMac" I don't believe investors or media would consider it an automatic failure just because it is cubed shaped.
The reason Apple put the G4 Cube on "ice" is because it didn't really have a place in Apple's consumer or pro line-up at the time (we all agree on this). If MacWorld brings PowerMac G5 to light, and wants to move it's iMac line to the G4, then all of the sudden a modified G4 Cube could easily fit into it's consumer line-up.
Apple could easily sell only two iMacs. One with a 15" LCD monitor and one without . Plain and simple. If you want to add a 21" CRT monitor or purchase an Apple LCD monitor, its up to you.
Just my two sense.
Steve: "Yes it was a big mistake because we we tried to sell our most exclusive computer ever at a exclusive price. We learned from that and have now decided to sell the worlds most exclusive computer for a price that you yesterday "only" could get our basic computer for"
Listen to yourself: Everybody would love to have this thing but don´t think the investors/Joe Average/whatever would like it. Well Joe Average is no more average than us and the investors love what customers love and even more if it didn´t cost anything to develop. Then more money can go into the development of the iPod II
[ 12-30-2001: Message edited by: Anders ]</p>
<strong>God, how I'd love for this to somehow happen next Monday because I'd love to rub it in the face of a few of you.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
You know, I don't disagree that a stand-alone iMac without a monitor is a good idea - cheaper price, more monitor options. I just don't think it's going to happen. Apple doesn't have anything to gain by de-coupling the monitor. It won't make a CRT so the only option is left is a 17" LCD that will be far too expensive for the iMac buyer. And if people don't get the monitor from Apple, then Apple isn't making as much money on the iMac because they've lost the monitor sale.
If it's integrated there no extra cables, power adaptors, plugs etc... And they can keep the price as cheap as possible. It will have more or less the same screen as the pismo powerbook, which is a very good size for most things.
But if you're right and they do make the iMac a cute little cube, we'll probably be seeing a cheapo 15" iMac monitor crop up too...
I don't see why a cube like design should be more expensive than the all in one. An external power-supply should be inherently cheaper. You commision/buy a unit and don't have to worry about heat/current etc issues with the PS in the case. In fact the design and build of the all-in-one iMac probably makes it more expensive than a generic tower and monitor PC combination -- tighter tolerances, and a lot of work to sort out the monitor, PS, motherboard heat and current issues.
You take a cube. You leave the AGP slot, and I/O compliment. You drop one of the ram slots, and you put in an easier to fab G3 or Apollo (later on). Not to mention cheaper combo/slot loads. Without a monitor, you could sell one easily for 799. It ought to be just as cheap if not cheaper to produce than the iMac. It's even easier to update throught it's minimum 2 - 3 year life cycle. Apple can add newer video cards/faster CPu's without revising the MoBo.
You can sell a 799 version (without monitor) and a 999 version (with monitor), and more expensive versions with combo drives and huge HDDs.
The external power brick and external speakers made the cube have a LOT of tangle factor. Very different from the iMac ethos of "2 plugs and you're on the internet" of old. It may not be the forefront anymore, but it's still paramount.
I even believe that the wire tangle with the new iMac (all in one, natch) will be further reduced with, get this, wireless keyboard and mouse.
Not bluetooth, necessarily. AirPort could be adapted for this, i'm sure.
Also, about the talk of a 2 piece iMac, I think that we will still see the iMac as a one-piece. I manage an Apple reseller here in Australia, and you can't imagine how many people are amazed at the all-in-one design and no-clutter feature of the iMac. The simplistic design of the iMac is what made it the success it has been to date. My only wish, and I know it wont happen, is to see just one PCI slot in the iMac. So many musicians and the like who want to buy a low cost machine and need to put in a better sound card etc would be a God-send!!
Whatever they decide to make the iMac, you can bet you last buck that it will be a killer. This is Apple's bread and butter product. They screw that up, they're gonna make their life very difficult.
Finally, on a slightly different note, I am so glad that Apple themselves in the States are entering the retail market, for as you may not know, Australia has had a very much established Apple retail presence. I think you will start to see Apple behaving differently in regards to product announcements/retail behaviour etc. They are in the retail boat now, and will realise that retail is a very different animal to phone/mail order!! They will start to see things the retailer's way!
<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
But seriously, I've seen a few cubes, and they never look cluttered or busy. It's really just one more cable. Very doable.