[quote] Why is it that people here always think that anyone else is more stupid than themselves? JA don´t have to understand computers, cables, plugs and stuff. He just have to take the blue cable with the wide plug and put it in the screen and the computer. <hr></blockquote>
Experience. One would think a USB hub would be relatively simple, but to my friend Ben, it's completely baffling. He just bought an iPod for his iBook 366 (no FW) because he thought it would work with his USB hub. Ben is a senior Stanford University.
One would think plugging a mouse into a USB enabled keyboard would be pretty obvious. My friend Matt had his mouse plugged into the side of his iMac and kept complaining about how short his mouse cable was. Matt is a senior at Colgate University.
I have another friend, Ilene, who uses an iMac DV+ (remember that one?). She called me over because she couldn't get on the internet. She couldn't get her phone line to fit into her ethernet port. Ilene is college educated and has worked in advertising for over 15 years.
These are not stupid people, they just don't "get" computers. What seems as simple as turning on a TV to us seems like programming OS X to them. They are baffled because they just don't get it. "Plug this into ADC, and this into your Cube, and this into the wall, and this into your phone jack, and these speakers into there, and so on and so on" is not so simple. It just isn't.
I still think that for the low end, an all-in-one computer is best. More simple, easier to set up, and looks cool (cute). iMac buyers don't know sh!t about computers, and they aren't interested in learning.
The new LCD iMac will be an all in one design. Here's what I'd LIKE to see:
A base unit that holds all the internals of the iMac...HD, MOBO, optical drive, ports. This base unit has an ADC connector set in a special swivel slot for holding a display that slides in and attaches semi-permanently. (not a TRUE all in one, but once snapped together it never need be separated).
Apple could offer 2 or 3 different displays for this base unit, and the buyer selects an LCD display to go with their base unit. They can even upgrade to a larger display in the future. Apple could offer two or three different sized LCD displays, depending on their popularity.
Since these iMac displays would be distinct from the other Apple LCD displays, Apple could make them from lower quality TFT screens, so that the price of the iMac remains low.
Although this would be a great way to address the problem of display size with the iMac, I don't really think this will happen.
Another alternative (the most likely one) is to keep the LCD iMac one piece unit, with a 15" display. Keep the price LOW, with the high end model topping out at 1200, and a special superdrive model at 1500-1600. Of course the iMac will be a G4.
Then, fill the space between the iMac and powermacs in Apple's lineup with the CUBE. This time, bring back the cube but make it larger, so it holds a standard sized video card in it's AGP port, so that it's easier to cool and can run with a larger CPU, and so that it has room for TWO HDs instead of one. Put regularly used ports (USB, Firewire, audio I/O) on the FRONT of the cube for easy access. A taller cube isn't a big deal, it still takes up the same amount of desk space, and actually it might even be more attractive to buyers because anything narrow and tall has a certain amount of phallic appeal. Also, add a fan so it stays cool and doesn't have overheating problems like the first cube purportedly did.
Price the cube at true headless iMac prices, meaning, the price of an iMac sans display. Use the same CPU in all cubes, so they all have identical MOBOS (cheaper to produce).
Thus: 1 GHz G4 (apollo) Cube:
$999:
30 GB HD
128 MB RAM
GeForce 2MX
CD-RW
$1199
60 GB HD
256 MB RAM
GeForce 2MX
CD-RW
$1499
80 GB HD
256 MB RAM
GeForce 3
CDRW/DVD-ROM combo drive
Add $500 for a display, and you've got a price spread of:
1499
1699
1999
And this price spread is PERFECT for a Mac system with a $500 monitor. The buyer can opt to buy a non-Apple display, and get themselves either a larger CRT display, OR, they can go for the Apple LCD display. Apple could bundle a $500 LCD display that's a better value than the cube buyer could find elsewhere.
The first question is, would this cannibalize iMac sales. I don't think so. iMac buyers are interested in an easy to set up and use computer and do not want to be bothered with expanding or upgrading their computers. They do not understand computers, and they have no desire to learn anything beyond that which is necessary to allow them to get stuff DONE with their computer. The computer is a tool to them, a tool that is difficult to use, confusing to operate--basically a necessary evil. iMac buyers don't care about display size because they are not hardcore gamers, graphic designers....in essence, they are not hardcore computer users. Finally, the price of a Cube + display begins at the price of a high end iMac with superdrive. Clearly, there is a premium for the Cube's style, and the ability to choose a larger display, and the video card that drives it.
The cube would be targeted at computer enthusiasts who demand more from a computer, whether it be for graphic design, gaming, or surfing the web. They want a tower but don't have the cash. They want a Mac, but the iMac's small display is a turn-off. If they are gamers, then the video card must be upgradeable. These users might add an extra HD at some point, but PCI slots are not essential, particularly with OS X's software based RAID solution. This market segment is composed of people who wouldn't buy an iMac anyways, or if they did it would be under protest. Currently, they buy older powermacs, either used or new but previous models. So the cube as I described it would not significantly cannabilize iMac sales, and it would be bought in lieu of used powermacs. Apple would really make good money off such a product.
Do I think this will ever be done by Apple? No. But it's nice to dream!
I'm the sort of person Apple would make money off of with this sort of cube. I bought my Powermac new, but as a previous model, over the internet. Apple could have made more money off me if I had bought a "new" Mac from their current lineup, but they offered nothing for me.
My tower is great, but a cube as I described, with room for a full sized video card, two HDs, this would be perfect for me. I have one PCI card, but I don't really need it (a Soundblaster, eck!).
I fear what Apple learned from the cube, is this: They though, "Mac users are clamoring for a headless iMac, let's give 'em one!".
We get the cube, it doesn't sell.
"Oh, so they don't want a headless iMac! They want iMacs with different color schemes! That's it!"
It seems that in every cube debate, what gets lost in the discussion is that if I say I want a headless iMac, I also want a headless iMac price! That means, you take away the display, you take away the COST of the display, and price the damn thing accordingly! Apple got greedy but I'm not sure they understand that this is the source of the cube's abysmal failure.
I have another friend, Ilene, who uses an iMac DV+ (remember that one?). She called me over because she couldn't get on the internet. She couldn't get her phone line to fit into her ethernet port. Ilene is college educated and has worked in advertising for over 15 years.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Done the same thing myself (before ADSL). Only mental laziness prevented me from figuring out what the problem was
I still have to say that a Cubed iMac would make one more cable nessesary (if they build in speakers into the LCD and put the mini jack in the cube itself. The power cord could have the power adaptor halfways on it.
But okay I give in. You can have your "see mom no wires" iMac to yourselves and let Europe and Japan have the "one cable more" cubed iMac (and lets not start a ameri-euro flamewar. Its so 2001´sh)
Plenty of guys like me occupying that middle space of "too advanced for beginner, too intermediate for advanced" (or something like that) who's needs are more than met by iMacs.
If Apple came out with something similar to Sony's PenTablet series, where you can draw on the screen, I'd sell every computer peripheral I have and throw in my dog to get one. From what I'd heard rumored about the new iMac the new form factor will be a nice change, but will offer nothing more than just Apple's usual emphasis on form over substance. Too bad because I'm seriously itching to get at one of those Sony units.
The idea of a two-piece iMac successor jives with an odd rumour I heard many months ago (before MWNY).
A poster on another board that I have grown to trust has a friend inside the Sacramento plant. His info is usually kinda mundane ("the assembly line is running XXXX right now"). He mentioned black plastic-wrapped palettes with coding that seemed to indicate a main unit, and two possible second accessory units (ie: A or . These don't seem to jive with anything I've seen since.
Isn't it possible that Apple could have an iMac with two different snap-in screens? Picture the guts of the computer (drive, mobo, powersupply, built in peripherals) as the heavy ballast or base, with some sort of clever way of snapping-in either one of two different size pivoting displays. We're just not used to thinking in this way...but this seems like a design challenge that Ive and Co. could surmount.
This would simultaneously answer to Apple's loudest iMac complaint ("the frickin' screen is too small, goddamnit!") without wiping out the lower cost for the base unit and smaller (but acceptable, as we've all rationalized) screen/resolution.
It also feeds into my lego-like integration dream, where all of Apple's appliances snap together to provide capabilities greater than the sum of the parts...
<strong>Question: Why would Apple replace they're best selling computer ever with the worst selling computer ever?
For all of the reasons npoted above, the iMac redux will not be a G4 Cube redux.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Here, here.
Even if it was incredible looking, any link to the Cube would be a feeding frenzy for bonehead press and critics and would sink it, even if unfairly. (I'd love to proven wrong...)
The thing is that the iMac is an icon -- an instantly recognizable shape that carries with it ideas like "ease of use" and "simplicity". I have no doubt that a two piece "iMac" wouldn't actually be much different from an all-in-one in terms of ease of setup and so forth, but Apple really needs to make something that has a strong presence and that is a worthy successor to the previous line of iMacs. They have basically gone unchanged (colors and minor design tweaks notwithstanding) for like 3 years. The iMac is Apple's bread and butter -- if it hadn't come out Apple might not be around today.
For this reason, I would be surprised if they didn't make the new iMac an all in one. I am expecting something reminiscent of the new ibook and the iPod.
Is gordy hinting that Apple will replace the imac with Lisas :eek: Digging all those computers out of the dump again <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> And people thought and Cubed imac was a bad idea
the only cords are the power, phone or ethernet, and mouse/keyboard.
BUT in this day and age, why the hell do we have cords at all???
I predict that apple will be using all new wireless technology to connect the keyboard & mouse on both the iMac and the PowerMac. here's the kicker though: The two piece iMac will also connect to it's MONITOR in this way.
Here's the idea:
BOX
You have a cube-type box, set up on a desk, that contains all your basic ports, and the various controllers along with the main processor (667Mhz G4) and up to 1 GB of Ram. A stand, similar in design to a palm stand but bigger, is supplied to dock & recharge the monitor/pad.
MONITOR
A 14" LCD, with pen tablet capabilities. The enclosure will be just big enough to hold the video system (16MB Radeon Mobility??), another, weaker processor to run a web browser & Mail client while away from the base, and the built-in wireless driver. It will work up to 30-40 feet from the base, thus allowing you to surf the web on your couch without another computer. The big thing about this is that R&D on this puppy would not be tied up in the iMac, because the wireless capability in the PowerMac would allow you to sell it separately w/a FireWire dock, perhaps.
I also anticipate seeing a box for your TV that allows you to wirelessly play your iTunes through your stereo. It could be controlled from the monitor, and would fully integrate with either system. This would be sold separately, of course.
The way Apple has been hyping this announcement, I really feel they have something new up their sleeve.
[quote] You see the cube and see simplicity. Joe Average sees things to plug together, just like that dag-nabbit VCR he can't get to work. Remember the first iMac commercial ever (link, anyone?). First it showed a PC with wires upon wires upon wires. Then it showed an iMac, with a single power plug. Apple has sold 5 million (right?) iMacs under their current strategy. Why, oh why, would they abandon this?
The average consumer becomes exponentially more confused with each additional choice. Keep it simple, make it competitive, and the iMacs will sell.
So, pscates, I am officially on record: new iMac will be a one-piece unit. If you are right, I'll change my name to "pscates proved Pook wrong." <hr></blockquote>
Comments
Cube
power supply
keyboard
mouse
monitor
speaker
speaker
speaker amp
and if you want a mic, you need yet another piece...The current iMac has a built-in mic.
In a way, despite being volume efficient, the cube design isn't good for computers. I think the pizza box is a much more logical design.
Experience. One would think a USB hub would be relatively simple, but to my friend Ben, it's completely baffling. He just bought an iPod for his iBook 366 (no FW) because he thought it would work with his USB hub. Ben is a senior Stanford University.
One would think plugging a mouse into a USB enabled keyboard would be pretty obvious. My friend Matt had his mouse plugged into the side of his iMac and kept complaining about how short his mouse cable was. Matt is a senior at Colgate University.
I have another friend, Ilene, who uses an iMac DV+ (remember that one?). She called me over because she couldn't get on the internet. She couldn't get her phone line to fit into her ethernet port. Ilene is college educated and has worked in advertising for over 15 years.
These are not stupid people, they just don't "get" computers. What seems as simple as turning on a TV to us seems like programming OS X to them. They are baffled because they just don't get it. "Plug this into ADC, and this into your Cube, and this into the wall, and this into your phone jack, and these speakers into there, and so on and so on" is not so simple. It just isn't.
That being said,
- Pook
The new LCD iMac will be an all in one design. Here's what I'd LIKE to see:
A base unit that holds all the internals of the iMac...HD, MOBO, optical drive, ports. This base unit has an ADC connector set in a special swivel slot for holding a display that slides in and attaches semi-permanently. (not a TRUE all in one, but once snapped together it never need be separated).
Apple could offer 2 or 3 different displays for this base unit, and the buyer selects an LCD display to go with their base unit. They can even upgrade to a larger display in the future. Apple could offer two or three different sized LCD displays, depending on their popularity.
Since these iMac displays would be distinct from the other Apple LCD displays, Apple could make them from lower quality TFT screens, so that the price of the iMac remains low.
Although this would be a great way to address the problem of display size with the iMac, I don't really think this will happen.
Another alternative (the most likely one) is to keep the LCD iMac one piece unit, with a 15" display. Keep the price LOW, with the high end model topping out at 1200, and a special superdrive model at 1500-1600. Of course the iMac will be a G4.
Then, fill the space between the iMac and powermacs in Apple's lineup with the CUBE. This time, bring back the cube but make it larger, so it holds a standard sized video card in it's AGP port, so that it's easier to cool and can run with a larger CPU, and so that it has room for TWO HDs instead of one. Put regularly used ports (USB, Firewire, audio I/O) on the FRONT of the cube for easy access. A taller cube isn't a big deal, it still takes up the same amount of desk space, and actually it might even be more attractive to buyers because anything narrow and tall has a certain amount of phallic appeal. Also, add a fan so it stays cool and doesn't have overheating problems like the first cube purportedly did.
Price the cube at true headless iMac prices, meaning, the price of an iMac sans display. Use the same CPU in all cubes, so they all have identical MOBOS (cheaper to produce).
Thus: 1 GHz G4 (apollo) Cube:
$999:
30 GB HD
128 MB RAM
GeForce 2MX
CD-RW
$1199
60 GB HD
256 MB RAM
GeForce 2MX
CD-RW
$1499
80 GB HD
256 MB RAM
GeForce 3
CDRW/DVD-ROM combo drive
Add $500 for a display, and you've got a price spread of:
1499
1699
1999
And this price spread is PERFECT for a Mac system with a $500 monitor. The buyer can opt to buy a non-Apple display, and get themselves either a larger CRT display, OR, they can go for the Apple LCD display. Apple could bundle a $500 LCD display that's a better value than the cube buyer could find elsewhere.
The first question is, would this cannibalize iMac sales. I don't think so. iMac buyers are interested in an easy to set up and use computer and do not want to be bothered with expanding or upgrading their computers. They do not understand computers, and they have no desire to learn anything beyond that which is necessary to allow them to get stuff DONE with their computer. The computer is a tool to them, a tool that is difficult to use, confusing to operate--basically a necessary evil. iMac buyers don't care about display size because they are not hardcore gamers, graphic designers....in essence, they are not hardcore computer users. Finally, the price of a Cube + display begins at the price of a high end iMac with superdrive. Clearly, there is a premium for the Cube's style, and the ability to choose a larger display, and the video card that drives it.
The cube would be targeted at computer enthusiasts who demand more from a computer, whether it be for graphic design, gaming, or surfing the web. They want a tower but don't have the cash. They want a Mac, but the iMac's small display is a turn-off. If they are gamers, then the video card must be upgradeable. These users might add an extra HD at some point, but PCI slots are not essential, particularly with OS X's software based RAID solution. This market segment is composed of people who wouldn't buy an iMac anyways, or if they did it would be under protest. Currently, they buy older powermacs, either used or new but previous models. So the cube as I described it would not significantly cannabilize iMac sales, and it would be bought in lieu of used powermacs. Apple would really make good money off such a product.
Do I think this will ever be done by Apple? No. But it's nice to dream!
I'm the sort of person Apple would make money off of with this sort of cube. I bought my Powermac new, but as a previous model, over the internet. Apple could have made more money off me if I had bought a "new" Mac from their current lineup, but they offered nothing for me.
My tower is great, but a cube as I described, with room for a full sized video card, two HDs, this would be perfect for me. I have one PCI card, but I don't really need it (a Soundblaster, eck!).
I fear what Apple learned from the cube, is this: They though, "Mac users are clamoring for a headless iMac, let's give 'em one!".
We get the cube, it doesn't sell.
"Oh, so they don't want a headless iMac! They want iMacs with different color schemes! That's it!"
It seems that in every cube debate, what gets lost in the discussion is that if I say I want a headless iMac, I also want a headless iMac price! That means, you take away the display, you take away the COST of the display, and price the damn thing accordingly! Apple got greedy but I'm not sure they understand that this is the source of the cube's abysmal failure.
<strong>
I have another friend, Ilene, who uses an iMac DV+ (remember that one?). She called me over because she couldn't get on the internet. She couldn't get her phone line to fit into her ethernet port. Ilene is college educated and has worked in advertising for over 15 years.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Done the same thing myself (before ADSL). Only mental laziness prevented me from figuring out what the problem was
I still have to say that a Cubed iMac would make one more cable nessesary (if they build in speakers into the LCD and put the mini jack in the cube itself. The power cord could have the power adaptor halfways on it.
But okay I give in. You can have your "see mom no wires" iMac to yourselves and let Europe and Japan have the "one cable more" cubed iMac (and lets not start a ameri-euro flamewar. Its so 2001´sh)
<strong>iMac buyers don't know sh!t about computers, and they aren't interested in learning.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Wait a minute, now...
Not every graphics geek is a G4 power hound...and not every iMac user is clueless newbie.
<img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
Plenty of guys like me occupying that middle space of "too advanced for beginner, too intermediate for advanced" (or something like that) who's needs are more than met by iMacs.
And I know PLENTY, Sparky.
[ 12-31-2001: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
I like the 4 product grid myself.
2 configurations of each portable and 3 configurations of Desktop.
Simple and effective.
Beer must be wearing off! Now that's the old Junkyard Dawg we know and love...
This stupid iMac owner can't wait for the new iMacs. And of course since I own an iBook and not a Powerbook, that makes me doubly stupid.
A poster on another board that I have grown to trust has a friend inside the Sacramento plant. His info is usually kinda mundane ("the assembly line is running XXXX right now"). He mentioned black plastic-wrapped palettes with coding that seemed to indicate a main unit, and two possible second accessory units (ie: A or
Isn't it possible that Apple could have an iMac with two different snap-in screens? Picture the guts of the computer (drive, mobo, powersupply, built in peripherals) as the heavy ballast or base, with some sort of clever way of snapping-in either one of two different size pivoting displays. We're just not used to thinking in this way...but this seems like a design challenge that Ive and Co. could surmount.
This would simultaneously answer to Apple's loudest iMac complaint ("the frickin' screen is too small, goddamnit!") without wiping out the lower cost for the base unit and smaller (but acceptable, as we've all rationalized) screen/resolution.
It also feeds into my lego-like integration dream, where all of Apple's appliances snap together to provide capabilities greater than the sum of the parts...
For all of the reasons npoted above, the iMac redux will not be a G4 Cube redux.
<strong>Question: Why would Apple replace they're best selling computer ever with the worst selling computer ever?
For all of the reasons npoted above, the iMac redux will not be a G4 Cube redux.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Here, here.
Even if it was incredible looking, any link to the Cube would be a feeding frenzy for bonehead press and critics and would sink it, even if unfairly. (I'd love to proven wrong...)
For this reason, I would be surprised if they didn't make the new iMac an all in one. I am expecting something reminiscent of the new ibook and the iPod.
<strong>Question: Why would Apple replace they're best selling computer ever with the worst selling computer ever?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I suspect that privilege belongs to the Lisa.
Michael
<strong>
I suspect that privilege belongs to the Lisa.
Michael</strong><hr></blockquote>
Is gordy hinting that Apple will replace the imac with Lisas :eek: Digging all those computers out of the dump again <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> And people thought and Cubed imac was a bad idea
<strong>Yes, but these will be G5-based Lisas. Price: $9,000. Sign me up!</strong><hr></blockquote>
:eek: For this
you say keep it simple: an all in one computer.
the only cords are the power, phone or ethernet, and mouse/keyboard.
BUT in this day and age, why the hell do we have cords at all???
I predict that apple will be using all new wireless technology to connect the keyboard & mouse on both the iMac and the PowerMac. here's the kicker though: The two piece iMac will also connect to it's MONITOR in this way.
Here's the idea:
BOX
You have a cube-type box, set up on a desk, that contains all your basic ports, and the various controllers along with the main processor (667Mhz G4) and up to 1 GB of Ram. A stand, similar in design to a palm stand but bigger, is supplied to dock & recharge the monitor/pad.
MONITOR
A 14" LCD, with pen tablet capabilities. The enclosure will be just big enough to hold the video system (16MB Radeon Mobility??), another, weaker processor to run a web browser & Mail client while away from the base, and the built-in wireless driver. It will work up to 30-40 feet from the base, thus allowing you to surf the web on your couch without another computer. The big thing about this is that R&D on this puppy would not be tied up in the iMac, because the wireless capability in the PowerMac would allow you to sell it separately w/a FireWire dock, perhaps.
I also anticipate seeing a box for your TV that allows you to wirelessly play your iTunes through your stereo. It could be controlled from the monitor, and would fully integrate with either system. This would be sold separately, of course.
The way Apple has been hyping this announcement, I really feel they have something new up their sleeve.
[ 01-02-2002: Message edited by: dwldzm9 ]</p>
[quote] You see the cube and see simplicity. Joe Average sees things to plug together, just like that dag-nabbit VCR he can't get to work. Remember the first iMac commercial ever (link, anyone?). First it showed a PC with wires upon wires upon wires. Then it showed an iMac, with a single power plug. Apple has sold 5 million (right?) iMacs under their current strategy. Why, oh why, would they abandon this?
The average consumer becomes exponentially more confused with each additional choice. Keep it simple, make it competitive, and the iMacs will sell.
So, pscates, I am officially on record: new iMac will be a one-piece unit. If you are right, I'll change my name to "pscates proved Pook wrong." <hr></blockquote>
New iMac is awesome.
- Pook