Microsoft gets Mac Printing Right

brbr
Posted:
in macOS edited January 2014




Try printing a pdf in preview. Try printing just the odd pages. You will have a HELL of a time. That's because that little box at the bottom where it says "page range" is missing by default in almost every single OS X app I have seen. The above is a screenshot of Word's print dialog box. Congrats to the Microsoft MBU for getting printing right.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 37
    amoryaamorya Posts: 1,103member




    The above taken from Preview's print dialog





    Amorya
  • Reply 2 of 37
    ipeonipeon Posts: 1,122member




    The above taken from Safari.
  • Reply 3 of 37
    torifiletorifile Posts: 4,024member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by iPeon





    The above taken from Safari.




    Umm, you missed his point. He meant you could print ranges in Word (and other MS programs). He's right that this is lacking in many programs. I suspect it's a shortcoming of the cocoa printing framework, but I'm not sure.
  • Reply 4 of 37
    ipeonipeon Posts: 1,122member
    Ahh yes, as in print page 5 and pages 12-15 as an example. iC now. Never had the need for that, but ok.
  • Reply 5 of 37
    Quote:

    Originally posted by torifile

    He meant you could print ranges in Word (and other MS programs). He's right that this is lacking in many programs.



    It's not just lacking in many programs; it's lacking in all programs other than Microsoft Office.



    Office is the only set of applications that has that option. This is because Microsoft chose to use a modified print dialog instead of the standard one.
  • Reply 6 of 37
    Quote:

    Originally posted by BR





    Try printing a pdf in preview. Try printing just the odd pages. You will have a HELL of a time. That's because that little box at the bottom where it says "page range" is missing by default in almost every single OS X app I have seen. The above is a screenshot of Word's print dialog box. Congrats to the Microsoft MBU for getting printing right.




    If you want to print a range of pages, you can put that in the standard "Copies and Pages" bit.



    If you want to print only odds or only evens, you're talking about paper handling (most likely you are trying to do front/back prints on a non-duplexing printer, right?) Thus, surf your little mouse over to "Paper Handling", and from there click the "Odd numbered pages" or "Even numbered pages" options. If you only wanted the "Odd numbered pages between 35 and 73" then you can combine this setting with the "Copies and Pages" setting.



    If you just want to print specific random pages ... well, hell, I guess Microsoft got us beat there, didn't they! How often do you need to do this? Ummm ... well, my bet's on pretty much NEVER!



    IMHO, Microsoft's decision to roll their own dialogs for Office instead of using the standard dialogs is a crippling failure. With each release of the OS their app looks more and more dated. Which, of course, is probably the idea behind it, making people sick of looking at the 2-year-old version so they buy the brand spankin' new one ... but this wouldn't happen if there was competition in the marketplace instead of a monopoly ...



    So, you have an obscure and geeky way of entering page ranges, that is rarely if ever used (and exists only because the same "feature" is in Windows because there aren't dedicated page range entry boxes), that clutters the primary pane of a common dialog box, that requires two additional lines of instruction on how to use the magic text entry box, that provides functionality that can be done using the standard dialogs if necessary (do multiple "Print" runs), that makes people think (apparently) that the "right" way to print odd pages is to list every single odd page in your document in a little text field, that keeps your application from updating when OS-wide features are added ... and that's called getting it "right"?
  • Reply 7 of 37
    Quote:

    Originally posted by JetTredmont

    So, you have an obscure and geeky way of entering page ranges, that is rarely if ever used (and exists only because the same "feature" is in Windows because there aren't dedicated page range entry boxes), that clutters the primary pane of a common dialog box, that requires two additional lines of instruction on how to use the magic text entry box, that provides functionality that can be done using the standard dialogs if necessary (do multiple "Print" runs), that makes people think (apparently) that the "right" way to print odd pages is to list every single odd page in your document in a little text field, that keeps your application from updating when OS-wide features are added ... and that's called getting it "right"?



    Nice first post.



    I agree with you that BR is a weirdo. This ability is would clutter an otherwise nice and simple print dialog box/sheet for what exactly?



    In a word processing document I could possibly see it being used on very rare occasions...but outside word processors, this feature would be less and less used.



    This thread was a waste of my time but it's always quite entertaining to see people like BR praise obscure features that nobody really cares about.
  • Reply 8 of 37
    othelloothello Posts: 1,053member
    InDesign has ranges too -- but then it uses its own print framework.



  • Reply 9 of 37
    ast3r3xast3r3x Posts: 5,012member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kim kap sol

    I agree with you that BR is a weirdo. This ability is would clutter an otherwise nice and simple print dialog box/sheet for what exactly?





    Just because you don't use it doesn't mean it isn't good. Any type of printing that could be multi document (which almost any app can do), you should have this ability. Apple's way looks nicer, but guess what, it isn't as powerful of an option, it limits your ability.
  • Reply 10 of 37
    homhom Posts: 1,098member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ast3r3x

    Just because you don't use it doesn't mean it isn't good. Any type of printing that could be multi document (which almost any app can do), you should have this ability. Apple's way looks nicer, but guess what, it isn't as powerful of an option, it limits your ability.



    Exactly! I use this feature in Word all the time. I'll give you an example. I was writing a paper about some new military equipment. I got the unit designation wrong in a few places, but I didn't catch it until I had already printed it. A quick find and replace, then reprinted the pages that I had corrected. No need to print the entire document again. It's a good feature that any serious word processor should have.
  • Reply 11 of 37
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ast3r3x

    Just because you don't use it doesn't mean it isn't good. Any type of printing that could be multi document (which almost any app can do), you should have this ability. Apple's way looks nicer, but guess what, it isn't as powerful of an option, it limits your ability.



    Didn't say it wasn't good...just said it's hardly ever used to justify a place on a generic print dialog. Big difference.
  • Reply 12 of 37
    Of course to be really bazarre try printing a specific page in a Word document which has sections in which the page numbers restart - say a 6 page intro with a 10 page appendix, which you tell Word to renumber starting at 1. So you have page 1-6 followed by 1-10. Now try to print only the first page of the appendix to check something out. I couldn't. If I printed page '1' I got the first page of the document. If I printed page '7' I got the 7th page of the appendix. To see the printout of the first page of the appendix I HAD to print pages 1-7!!!!



    Make up your mind MSW
  • Reply 13 of 37
    Quote:

    Originally posted by HOM

    It's a good feature that any serious word processor should have.



    Probably...but Word is pretty much the only serious word processor on the Mac. And you got that feature in it. So what's the problem?



    This type of printing feature only really applies well to long documents. It hardly applies well to webpages or anything else you'd print.



    In any case...I think it would be a good feature but MS certainly hasn't done it "the right way" like you said.



    A friendlier way than adding slashes, commas or dashes inside a text field would be to have new sets of fields appear once a "from" and "to" field is filled.



    The MS way is just un-user-friendly.
  • Reply 14 of 37
    ast3r3xast3r3x Posts: 5,012member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kim kap sol

    I agree with you that BR is a weirdo. This ability is would clutter an otherwise nice and simple print dialog box/sheet for what exactly?



    In a word processing document I could possibly see it being used on very rare occasions...but outside word processors, this feature would be less and less used.



    This thread was a waste of my time but it's always quite entertaining to see people like BR praise obscure features that nobody really cares about.




    Didn't say it wasn't good...just said it's hardly ever used to justify a place on a generic print dialog. Big difference.



    I loathe you. I didn't say I hate you exactly but using other words is just as effective.



    It isn't very cluttering either...assuming I completely understand what you are talking about...









    How is the good way more cluttered?
  • Reply 15 of 37
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ast3r3x

    I loathe you. I didn't say I hate you exactly but using other words is just as effective.



    It isn't very cluttering either...assuming I completely understand what you are talking about...









    How is the good way more cluttered?




    You forgot to show the description on how to use the "good" way which takes up space for nothing.



    And like I said...you might was well be using a CLI interface if you have to put in commas and dashes.
  • Reply 16 of 37
    ast3r3xast3r3x Posts: 5,012member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kim kap sol

    You forgot to show the description on how to use the "good" way which takes up space for nothing.



    And like I said...you might was well be using a CLI interface if you have to put in commas and dashes.




    Ok well first sorry about my loathing example



    Second...I think it was shown that is isn't "taking up space for nothing." There is a reason for it to be there and a good one.



    Come on...because you have to type in a comma or dash IF you want to span pages it is the same as using a CLI? Geez, why type at all, it is like using a CLI, they should just let you pick numbers with the mouse, I mean this is a GUI isn't it?



    I don't mean to be...mean, but you are really stretching it with the CLI one. Perhaps they should stuck the proper range selection somewhere else and not in the main dialog box, but the point is that it should be there somewhere.
  • Reply 17 of 37
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Weird... I don't think I've ever had to print a non-contiguous set of pages from a document before.



    BR, how does one print just the odd pages in Word? '1, 3, 5, 7, ...'?
  • Reply 18 of 37
    ast3r3xast3r3x Posts: 5,012member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Kickaha

    Weird... I don't think I've ever had to print a non-contiguous set of pages from a document before.



    BR, how does one print just the odd pages in Word? '1, 3, 5, 7, ...'?




    I was curious about that as well...what if there are 200 pages? It is still nice to have multiple ranges though. I guess the most I use this is in InDesign, but if I'm doing a project, I'll have most of my pages in the same document. So when I need to print specific things after I change something, or when I arrive at their due dates, it is a lot easier to type in 2,3-5,8-10,12 then hit print 4 times. Odd example, but still useful. I don't use it that much but I am still willing to fight over it
  • Reply 19 of 37
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ast3r3x

    I was curious about that as well...what if there are 200 pages? It is still nice to have multiple ranges though. I guess the most I use this is in InDesign, but if I'm doing a project, I'll have most of my pages in the same document. So when I need to print specific things after I change something, or when I arrive at their due dates, it is a lot easier to type in 2,3-5,8-10,12 then hit print 4 times. Odd example, but still useful. I don't use it that much but I am still willing to fight over it







    I think discontiguous ranges are a great idea... but the interface is opaque, nonintuitive, and generally, well, MS.



    Instead, perhaps an extensible range idea, where you could have +/- buttons like in the Finder Find window, where you can add criteria, or in Address Book where you can add additional phone numbers, etc. Then, each range could still be the usual two text fields, but it'd be obvious to the newbie what to do.



    So your above example would be:

    2

    3-5

    8-10

    12
  • Reply 20 of 37
    drewpropsdrewprops Posts: 2,320member
    Great feature, very convenient for people who are working in a professional environment and need to strategically replace pages in a document without sitting there and sending multiple single prints through a machine. I wonder if you used commas and similar delimiters in the first field of a page range area if it might work similarly......



    Just because some of you guys aren't power users doesn't really justify snotty attitudes about this. Sure, I think that BR acts like a jackass in AppleOutsider, but in this case I'm on his side....yes, a glowing recommendation if ever you heard one~
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