Noam Chomsky now a NY Times op-ed columnist !!

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  • Reply 41 of 58
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Gon



    After that you suddenly go "oh, the article doesn't actually matter,





    Where did I say that?





    Quote:

    Originally posted by Gon

    and Chomsky does not matter either, but the people who listen to Chomsky are dangerous".





    You yourself describe him as an anarchist.



    Quote:

    Originally posted by Gon



    But you haven't read Chomsky, so you haven't the faintest idea what Chomsky stands for.




    You already know that that's a fallacy. And I've given you plenty of examples. I need not have read Hitler or Marx to know what Nazism or Communism is about.





    Quote:

    Originally posted by Gon





    Sorry, but this is thundering idiocy. I don't even think of Chomsky as being far to the left politically. He's more of an anarchist, and actually does not oppose things like free markets, only the bad leadership that comes when you let the market influence the government instead of democratic process. I am very much in favor of capitalism, yet I find most of Chomsky's commentary convincing.





    To what end? Would you be against Labour unions endorsing political candidates?
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  • Reply 42 of 58
    haraldharald Posts: 2,152member
    Ah. Aha. Ahahaha. Aheeheeheeheeheeheehee ha ha. A BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. HOOOOOOOOOOOOhoohoohooohoohoohoohoohoohoohoohoohoo hoohoohoohoo.



    Ha.



    God.



    Shit, that's pretty funny.



    What's right wing about Nazism?



    Anyone?
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  • Reply 43 of 58
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Harald

    Ah. Aha. Ahahaha. Aheeheeheeheeheeheehee ha ha. A BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. HOOOOOOOOOOOOhoohoohooohoohoohoohoohoohoohoohoohoo hoohoohoohoo.



    Ha.



    God.



    Shit, that's pretty funny.



    What's right wing about Nazism?



    Anyone?






    How about you answer it?
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  • Reply 44 of 58
    haraldharald Posts: 2,152member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by JewelsVernz

    I need not have read Hitler or Marx to know what Nazism or Communism is about.



    Great!



    What's Chomsky's thesis then?
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  • Reply 45 of 58
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kneelbeforezod

    Gesundheit



    Good one Hassan.
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  • Reply 46 of 58
    haraldharald Posts: 2,152member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by JewelsVernz

    How about you answer it?



    OK, if I answer that (shouldn't be too hard) will you tell us all what Chomsky's thesis is?



    No Google now!
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  • Reply 47 of 58
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Harald

    Great!



    What's Chomsky's thesis then?






    Bash America. Now answer the question posed to you.
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  • Reply 48 of 58
    Quote:

    Originally posted by JewelsVernz

    And please explain to me what's right wing about (National) Socialism?



    Quote:

    Originally posted by JewelsVernz

    I need not have read Hitler or Marx to know what Nazism or Communism is about.



    If you don't know what is right wing about what the Nazi party referred to as National Socialism (and the extent to which it is about as different from Marxist International Socialism as chalk is from cheese) you obviously do need to do some reading.



    Mein Kampf might not be the best place for you to start, however...
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  • Reply 49 of 58
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  • Reply 50 of 58
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kneelbeforezod

    If you don't know what is right wing about what the Nazi party referred to as National Socialism (and the extent to which it is about as different from Marxist International Socialism as chalk is from cheese) you obviously do need to do some reading.



    Mein Kampf might not be the best place for you to start, however...




    I'm waiting on Harald to elucidate on the subject. Please don't interrupt Hassan.
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  • Reply 51 of 58
    haraldharald Posts: 2,152member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by JewelsVernz

    Bash America. Now answer the question posed to you.



    No, that's not Chomsky's thesis. You lose.



    Now, "socialism" is often considered as the workers owning the means of production. It is considered by, well, everyone, as being left wing (but not as left wing as you can get, which is communism).



    Nazism is a violent nationlist movement characterised by extreme racism and hatred. It is considered to be as right wing as you can get.



    Hope this helps! For further reading try ANY SOURCE ANYWHERE.



    Sorry I couldn't match "bash America" for its insight etc.
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  • Reply 52 of 58
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kneelbeforezod

    Start here:



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialism






    LOL.



    So according to this, Hitler called his Nazi party such because he wished to discredit Socialism. I suppose Stalin called himself communist because he wished to discredit Communism.









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  • Reply 53 of 58
    Quote:

    Originally posted by JewelsVernz

    So according to this, Hitler called his Nazi party such because he wished to discredit Socialism. I suppose Stalin called himself communist because he wished to discredit Communism.



    The document I linked to does not say that at all. Either you didn't read it or your reading comprehension is sub-par.



    Let's look at it this way. North Korea refers to itself as the 'Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea' when it is in fact an authoritarian Stalinist dictatorship.



    Some things are a matter of opinion and some things are a matter of fact. The Earth is round. Things fall when you drop them and Nazism != Socialism.
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  • Reply 54 of 58
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Harald

    No, that's not Chomsky's thesis. You lose.



    Now, "socialism" is often considered as the workers owning the means of production. It is considered by, well, everyone, as being left wing (but not as left wing as you can get, which is communism).



    Nazism is a violent nationlist movement characterised by extreme racism and hatred. It is considered to be as right wing as you can get.



    Hope this helps! For further reading try ANY SOURCE ANYWHERE.



    Sorry I couldn't match "bash America" for its insight etc.






    LOL



    So although the Nazi party has all the ideological hallmarks of Socialism, it's not really left wing because,.. because the Nazi movement was also characterized by extreme racism and hatred. So naturally it is right wing.









    I wonder what Stalin or Saddam would have to say about that.



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  • Reply 55 of 58
    Quote:

    Originally posted by JewelsVernz

    So although the Nazi party has all the ideological hallmarks of Socialism.





    This is false.



    Here, to save you clicking on the link I provided are the facts...



    Quote:

    Reasons Nazism is considered socialist
    • Self-depiction: the German Nazi Party called itself the "National Socialist Worker's Party", and in 1927, Hitler said, "We are socialists."

    • The Left Wing (examples include Gregor Strasser and Ernst Röhm), and working class brownshirts (or Sturmabteilung) within the Nazi Party supported socialist programs.

    • One writer, Lew Rockwell at the Ludwig von Mises Institute, suggests that the chief difference beween Nazism and (as he puts it) others forms of socialism is that the Hitler's socialism was nationalistic while other forms (such as Communism) were internationalist.

    • The Nazis implemented an extensive system of wage and price controls, as well as pervasive government controls on investment and international trade.



    Reasons Nazism is not considered socialist
    • Throughout its rise to power and rule, the Nazis were strongly opposed by left-wing and socialist parties, and Nazi rhetoric was virulently anti-Marxist, attacking both communists and social democrats. A central appeal of Nazism was its opposition to Marxism and other forms of socialism and its claim to be a bulwark against Bolshevism and this is why they recieved so much material and political support from industrialists and conservatives.

    • The Nazi ideology saw socialist collectivism as part of a Jewish conspiracy (Judeo-Bolshevism) meant to undermine the elitist principle.

    • Nazis proposed that only people who were considered "racially pure" or Aryan would benefit from their policies. This can be seen as contrary to the socialist ideal of a society for the benefit of all.

    • In his rise to power, Hitler reassured German industrialists that he would respect private property and fight labor unions. To the extent that permitting private property to exist is contrary to "socialism", then Nazism was not "socialist". On the other hand, some democratic countries (like Sweden) have adopted some (but not all) socialist ideas while retaining a degree of freedom to own private property and have labor unions.

    • Hitler received strong support from conservatives for the "Enabling Act." This legislation was opposed by social democrats.

    • After coming to power, Hitler sent thousand of communists, social democrats and unionists to concentration camps and killed communist leaders in Germany. He outlawed labor unions and guaranteed corporate profits for Krupp & Co.

    • The profits of large corporations soared under the Nazis. With the exception of Jewish property which was seized and sold, capitalist enterprises were not expropriated or nationalised but remained in private hands.

    • The Nazis were anti-egalitarian believing in neither equality (either among Germans or between Germans and non-Germans), collectivism, nor the rights of the "masses". According to Hitler biographer Ian Kershaw they had an elitist view of society and asserted that in competition with each other the superior individual would emerge on top. Despite the use of slogans such as "the common good comes before the private good" their vision of social relations, in practice, was in line with the ideas of Nietzche rather than Karl Marx.

    • During the party's ascendency in the 1930s, so called "left wing" Nazis such as Gregor Strasser and Ernst Röhm were ruthlessly purged and even killed.




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  • Reply 56 of 58
    haraldharald Posts: 2,152member
    Edit



    Post removed. I should know better then get into arguments with anti-semites like Mika.
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  • Reply 57 of 58
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kneelbeforezod

    ...



    I asked that you please don't interrupt. (I deal with you later).
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  • Reply 58 of 58
    andersanders Posts: 6,523member
    For reasons that ought to be obvious this thread is closed for time being



    EDIT: After thinking about it (and reading the last page) I see no reason to reopen this even after this little operation. Please feel free to start another thread if the subject interest you.
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