I'm in the "I hope there's something more" crowd, but I don't generally put faith into the whole heaven/hell thing. Like someone mentioned before there are SO many religions, and concepts of afterlife, I don't think anyone has the answers.
Maybe if someone could explain what there was before there was the universe as we know it, then we'd be getting somewhere. :P I think there's some things we simply cannot comprehend due to the linear nature of our reality.
It seems the prudent thing to do would be to hedge oneself and perpare for the possibility that there is an afterlife, but the whole thing seems to ridiculous since there are so many religions--who's to say which one is right?
If there is a god / higher power / whatever, it is an entity that is beyond the kind of pettiness evident in human beings and won't be inclined to punish people for not believing in him / her / it according to some human doctrine. If anyone gets punished, it's the people who caused more hurt and misery in others then they did joy.
Death being the end forever is the only ending I can really buy. And yes, it is kind of depressing. I think it's just the nature of the human ego to want to believe that we are special enough to be given life after death.
You're born, you live, and then you die. That's it. That's the cycle of life (and death). We're no different from all animals and plants on earth.
Yes, it's sad, but it's the reality. Most people can't deal with it though, so they choose to believe in afterlife and other things that make them feel better about it, which is a very natural thing to do. If it works for them, great.
Make the most of your life because you have only one. There's no bonus round.
I have think a lot about this question the last months, and it was really depressing.
As a materialist, i think it's more game over than anything else. But this answer is bad, because it brings me only depression and unsastifaction. I don't agree with the buddhist theory, because if our matter and soul will be recycled we will loose our identity (the conscience of being unique). Thus i won't be anymore powerdoc, but some thinking in a great flood.
Recently i built a recent theory : at our death time stop, and we are becoming eternal, what we where is there for ever (bad or good) even if this unlimited time is contained in a momentum. (this theory is based upon the big bang where the first times of the universe lasted only a tiny fraction of second, after this the time delated more and more).
Anyway, the important thing is to make a theory that you can believe in, that will bring you peace. The legitimate fear of the death should not destroy the hapiness of our days.
I am only one sure of one thing : each life is unique. If there is an afterlife, it will be under a different form.
You're born, you live, and then you die. That's it. That's the cycle of life (and death). We're no different from all animals and plants on earth.
Yes, it's sad, but it's the reality. Most people can't deal with it though, so they choose to believe in afterlife and other things that make them feel better about it, which is a very natural thing to do. If it works for them, great.
Make the most of your life because you have only one. There's no bonus round.
Well, I personally never said we were different than other animals in this respect, I also never said I didn't believe animals can't be reincarnated or experience an afterlife
And what's with all the game references? surely if life is a game you would get do-overs and rematches
This afterlife question is of course quite interesting...however, what I don't understand is that why we, as humans, believe that if there is a spiritual realm of things, that we get to participate in it after we die. Never have I heard anyone say, "yes, there is so much world beyond this physical world, but unfortunately we won't ever see it, even after death, because it is not for us." Rather, there is this assumption that we are a part of it.
basically, it seems like humans are really full of themselves wrt the afterlife.
is there anything beyond our physical world? probably. will i ever see it, even after death? i doubt it. so the idea of being gone forever is a little depressing, but when you are dead, you won't know that it sucks to die.
Anyway, the important thing is to make a theory that you can believe in, that will bring you peace. The legitimate fear of the death should not destroy the hapiness of our days.
yea, I agree, I think the only reason we even make up afterlives...etc. is because we love ourselves too much, our brain doesn't want us to know the harsh truth, cause that could make it hard to live and be happy.
I go for 'eternal recurrence' - that is on death you are born again to the same parents in the same place in the same year and live your life in exactly the same way till you die at the same time.....over and over and over.....
.....
I have read about this before, I think there was a physicist who was studying the multiverse theory, and he came to a conclusion like this, and he went insane because he concluded that he had done everything that he was doing *infinite* times before, including going insane!
Like others, I think that once you die, that's it. It's depressing to think about it and kind of strange to wrap my head around it since you don't remember being unconscious. That's why I really hope there's something like an afterlife or reincarnation. Of course, if there is, I'm either going to hell or end up being reborn as some bug.
How about this for us materialists: Our afterlife lies in how people remember us and in our impact on the world after we die. If we make a positive impact, improve the future, have good offspring, etc., then we have an "afterlife."
And I guess you could have a good or bad afterlife. If you have a positive impact or are remembered in a positive way, you "go to heaven." But you could also "go to hell" if you have a negative impact on the future.
I've always wondered why some people want to kill a bunch of people before they commit suicide - school shooters, office shooters, etc. Maybe it's because they know they are going to die, they don't know how to do anything positive, but they want to be remembered. They want to have an "afterlife" rather than just be forgotten. Maybe going to hell is better than no afterlife at all.
ok, prepare for the extremely long, stream of conciousness, all over the freaking place, rambling of a middle aged, mid-life crisis, constantly thinking about death, man...
shit, you are gonna regret ever starting this thread...
i 99.9% believe that when you die, you die...nothing more, nothing less...somebody earlier said this was sad...and that is true, but not for the reasons they think...it is sad because i want to see where mankind goes, to see what it does, to see the worlds beyond our worlds, to know freaking everything...but i will die and that will be that...it won't be "sad" for me, i will be dead and won't notice or care, it won't be "sad" for the world or mankind, i am fairly insignificant, it will be slightly sad for my family, but, like all families, they will go on and move forward...
i don't believe in heaven or hell, it is really an absurd belief...and i really don't care...i am a good person, a good husband, a good father and i work everyday with children with heart disease...does this make me perfect? far from it...but i consider myself just about as good as anybody i know...so say there is a heaven and hell, if i don't go to heaven i at least know all my friends and family will be with me elsewhere...i would rather be in hell with loved ones than heaven alone...but heaven and hell is such a human creation...we have not only made god into human terms, but we have made him a fairly petty human at that..."do as i say, worship me, behave like sheep or i damn you"...does that sound like a being that created everything? and if god is a "father figure" and we are his "children", wouldn't he want more from us than that? i know i want my children to be better than me in everyway...wouldn't god want us to be at least on his level if not better? anyways, religion will have a hard time grabbing the truely intelligent and self-thinking as long as they keep god as a damning, petty creation...if there is a "god" it would be soooo beyond our comprehesion...but at least we should think on grand scales about god, instead we make him not only just a powerful "dad", but actually a kind of sucky dad...allows bad things to happen, doesn't explain himself well, kinda the absent, alcoholic dad...but maybe that is just me and my past rearing it's ugly head...
i don't believe in re-incarnation...i wish i did just because both my mother and my wife do...and i love them both dearly and respect them both so much...but reincarnation still seems like a vanity to me...why would i be so important, so powerful that my soul would keep coming back and surviving forever?? hell, stars ****ing die, yet i am suppose to believe i go on and on and on like a cosmic energizer bunny??
no, i will die and that will be it (for me) and that is sad mostly because i am a control freak and want to see and know everything...i want to understand everything...but maybe that is what aging is for...when i was young i didn't think too much about death (except when i was about 6 and first heard of supernovas...it totally freaked me out that the sun could explode and i couldn't sleep for weeks...finally my mother sat me down and had a discussion about it...i told her my fear that the sun would explode and that i would die...she told me that the sun had been around for billions of years and would be around for billions more...i couldn't really wrap my head around that though and argued that some suns explode and nobody knows why (solar suicide?)...so she told me that if the sun exploded everyone, not just me, but everyone would die...and that, surprisingly made it ok...the sun exploding and my dying at six freaked me out, the sun exploding and everyone dying was ok...maybe it was the communial nature of it... the old, "as for one, so for all", aspect of it....anyway, back on topic)...the young don't worry too much about death...in my teens and 20's i never thought about dying (thought alot about sex, but that is another topic)...now in my 40's i think of it most nights before sleep....now that may well be because i still feel young and strong, yet am definitely aging (graying, losing hair, not nearly the pretty boy i was )...and that reminds me of not only my mortality, but also that my time is "short" here on earth...but aging should help with that...dying now, while healthy and happy, would be sad...dying at 80 would be normal and i would, i'm sure over time and failing health, accept and understand and probably even welcome ending my time and having my ashes scattered to the winds...
so death kinda freaks me a bit right now...but not nearly as much as science always has....my death matters little to none, the worlds death matters little to none...but everything dying everywhere...that freaks me to no end...
the concepts that freak me are:
1. the "accordion" therory--a big bang throws out all matter...matter expands for billions of years...energy is expended and matter slows and then falls back together for millions of years...matter collapes back down to tiny tiny size and this causes a big band that throws out all matter...over and over this happens...all things are created, then all things are destroyed and re-creation begins...the concept is sooo big and so long, yet it feels real...it is cyclic and seems like a natural thing...i can see this and i can accept this concept...this would be as close to re-incarnation as i can see...re-incarnation on a universal, not an individual, size...
2. the "lonely" universe therory---this is the one i can't wrap my head around...this is the one that makes me ****ing sad...big bang throws everything out in one big cosmic hurl...everything keeps going and going and going forever and ever...slowing losing energy and spreading out...stars die and keep moving, world die and keep drifting out and away...till nothing is "alive", nothing is near anything and everything is dead and floating further and further out into nothing....ugggghhh...that just feels soooo wrong and un-natural...no cycle, no nothing....one big bang, one spread of matter and, with a whimper, the end
3. cosmic rip therory---doesn't feel right to me on any level so i disregard it...
which brings we back to 2 final thoughts...
1. what does this matter, this big bang, this universe, expand into?? and does it go on forever, or does it end like filling a box? if it ends, how? if it doesn't, how?? what was there before space? what is there after space?? how can the universe constantly expand?? how can it go on and on forever? and if it can't, what limits it?
i can't even fathom, how, what and why (which is probably why religion started up in the first place)
2. if our sun explodes, i hope it happens at night and we have at least a couple of minutes warning...i would grab my whole family together in a big hug and tell them not to worry, that i never wanted more than i had right there and that i really never thought i would have so much to love, that i never thought i would be so happy and have so much joy...that i was happy with every minute i spent with them and i was so happy to spend those last moments together...cuz, in the end, that is my religion and my faith...family and love....and in the end that is what is going to keep me strong and keep he happy and keep me sane even as i trudge slowly to my end...family and love...that i can accept, that i can understand, that i can cherish
sorry for the ramble
g
(shit, one day i will learn to proof read before posting)
Comments
Maybe if someone could explain what there was before there was the universe as we know it, then we'd be getting somewhere. :P I think there's some things we simply cannot comprehend due to the linear nature of our reality.
It seems the prudent thing to do would be to hedge oneself and perpare for the possibility that there is an afterlife, but the whole thing seems to ridiculous since there are so many religions--who's to say which one is right?
If there is a god / higher power / whatever, it is an entity that is beyond the kind of pettiness evident in human beings and won't be inclined to punish people for not believing in him / her / it according to some human doctrine. If anyone gets punished, it's the people who caused more hurt and misery in others then they did joy.
Death being the end forever is the only ending I can really buy. And yes, it is kind of depressing. I think it's just the nature of the human ego to want to believe that we are special enough to be given life after death.
Calculating God - Robert J Sawyer
brillant scifi
I used to believe in reincarnation, now im not sure
we are essentially a bunch of chemicals & as yet
we dont really know at what point "mind" arises aka
what makes us self-aware
as for reality, i find it amusing that in ancient hindu
texts theres a mention of the world not being real until
it is observed ....quantum physics at its best
Yes, it's sad, but it's the reality. Most people can't deal with it though, so they choose to believe in afterlife and other things that make them feel better about it, which is a very natural thing to do. If it works for them, great.
Make the most of your life because you have only one. There's no bonus round.
As a materialist, i think it's more game over than anything else. But this answer is bad, because it brings me only depression and unsastifaction. I don't agree with the buddhist theory, because if our matter and soul will be recycled we will loose our identity (the conscience of being unique). Thus i won't be anymore powerdoc, but some thinking in a great flood.
Recently i built a recent theory : at our death time stop, and we are becoming eternal, what we where is there for ever (bad or good) even if this unlimited time is contained in a momentum. (this theory is based upon the big bang where the first times of the universe lasted only a tiny fraction of second, after this the time delated more and more).
Anyway, the important thing is to make a theory that you can believe in, that will bring you peace. The legitimate fear of the death should not destroy the hapiness of our days.
I am only one sure of one thing : each life is unique. If there is an afterlife, it will be under a different form.
Originally posted by lolo
You're born, you live, and then you die. That's it. That's the cycle of life (and death). We're no different from all animals and plants on earth.
Yes, it's sad, but it's the reality. Most people can't deal with it though, so they choose to believe in afterlife and other things that make them feel better about it, which is a very natural thing to do. If it works for them, great.
Make the most of your life because you have only one. There's no bonus round.
Well, I personally never said we were different than other animals in this respect, I also never said I didn't believe animals can't be reincarnated or experience an afterlife
And what's with all the game references? surely if life is a game you would get do-overs and rematches
basically, it seems like humans are really full of themselves wrt the afterlife.
is there anything beyond our physical world? probably. will i ever see it, even after death? i doubt it. so the idea of being gone forever is a little depressing, but when you are dead, you won't know that it sucks to die.
Originally posted by Powerdoc
Anyway, the important thing is to make a theory that you can believe in, that will bring you peace. The legitimate fear of the death should not destroy the hapiness of our days.
yea, I agree, I think the only reason we even make up afterlives...etc. is because we love ourselves too much, our brain doesn't want us to know the harsh truth, cause that could make it hard to live and be happy.
Originally posted by progmac
but when you are dead, you won't know that it sucks to die.
which is why this question is so difficult! It's so hard to comprehend that, to not exist...phew...
Originally posted by segovius
I go for 'eternal recurrence' - that is on death you are born again to the same parents in the same place in the same year and live your life in exactly the same way till you die at the same time.....over and over and over.....
.....
I have read about this before, I think there was a physicist who was studying the multiverse theory, and he came to a conclusion like this, and he went insane because he concluded that he had done everything that he was doing *infinite* times before, including going insane!
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
And what's with all the game references? surely if life is a game you would get do-overs and rematches
Not to mention codes and cheats
(activate immortality)
beat that biotchs!
Kirk
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
*up* *up* *down* *down* *left* *right* *left* *right*
(activate immortality)
beat that biotchs!
Hold L1, *down* *down* *up* *left* *down* *down* *left*
(Rick James mode enabled)
I hope nobody knows the code for Jobs RDF mode, or we're all done for.
Kirk... does that say 'beagles'? Like the dog...?
And I guess you could have a good or bad afterlife. If you have a positive impact or are remembered in a positive way, you "go to heaven." But you could also "go to hell" if you have a negative impact on the future.
I've always wondered why some people want to kill a bunch of people before they commit suicide - school shooters, office shooters, etc. Maybe it's because they know they are going to die, they don't know how to do anything positive, but they want to be remembered. They want to have an "afterlife" rather than just be forgotten. Maybe going to hell is better than no afterlife at all.
shit, you are gonna regret ever starting this thread...
i 99.9% believe that when you die, you die...nothing more, nothing less...somebody earlier said this was sad...and that is true, but not for the reasons they think...it is sad because i want to see where mankind goes, to see what it does, to see the worlds beyond our worlds, to know freaking everything...but i will die and that will be that...it won't be "sad" for me, i will be dead and won't notice or care, it won't be "sad" for the world or mankind, i am fairly insignificant, it will be slightly sad for my family, but, like all families, they will go on and move forward...
i don't believe in heaven or hell, it is really an absurd belief...and i really don't care...i am a good person, a good husband, a good father and i work everyday with children with heart disease...does this make me perfect? far from it...but i consider myself just about as good as anybody i know...so say there is a heaven and hell, if i don't go to heaven i at least know all my friends and family will be with me elsewhere...i would rather be in hell with loved ones than heaven alone...but heaven and hell is such a human creation...we have not only made god into human terms, but we have made him a fairly petty human at that..."do as i say, worship me, behave like sheep or i damn you"...does that sound like a being that created everything? and if god is a "father figure" and we are his "children", wouldn't he want more from us than that? i know i want my children to be better than me in everyway...wouldn't god want us to be at least on his level if not better? anyways, religion will have a hard time grabbing the truely intelligent and self-thinking as long as they keep god as a damning, petty creation...if there is a "god" it would be soooo beyond our comprehesion...but at least we should think on grand scales about god, instead we make him not only just a powerful "dad", but actually a kind of sucky dad...allows bad things to happen, doesn't explain himself well, kinda the absent, alcoholic dad...but maybe that is just me and my past rearing it's ugly head...
i don't believe in re-incarnation...i wish i did just because both my mother and my wife do...and i love them both dearly and respect them both so much...but reincarnation still seems like a vanity to me...why would i be so important, so powerful that my soul would keep coming back and surviving forever?? hell, stars ****ing die, yet i am suppose to believe i go on and on and on like a cosmic energizer bunny??
no, i will die and that will be it (for me) and that is sad mostly because i am a control freak and want to see and know everything...i want to understand everything...but maybe that is what aging is for...when i was young i didn't think too much about death (except when i was about 6 and first heard of supernovas...it totally freaked me out that the sun could explode and i couldn't sleep for weeks...finally my mother sat me down and had a discussion about it...i told her my fear that the sun would explode and that i would die...she told me that the sun had been around for billions of years and would be around for billions more...i couldn't really wrap my head around that though and argued that some suns explode and nobody knows why (solar suicide?)...so she told me that if the sun exploded everyone, not just me, but everyone would die...and that, surprisingly made it ok...the sun exploding and my dying at six freaked me out, the sun exploding and everyone dying was ok...maybe it was the communial nature of it... the old, "as for one, so for all", aspect of it....anyway, back on topic)...the young don't worry too much about death...in my teens and 20's i never thought about dying (thought alot about sex, but that is another topic)...now in my 40's i think of it most nights before sleep....now that may well be because i still feel young and strong, yet am definitely aging (graying, losing hair, not nearly the pretty boy i was
so death kinda freaks me a bit right now...but not nearly as much as science always has....my death matters little to none, the worlds death matters little to none...but everything dying everywhere...that freaks me to no end...
the concepts that freak me are:
1. the "accordion" therory--a big bang throws out all matter...matter expands for billions of years...energy is expended and matter slows and then falls back together for millions of years...matter collapes back down to tiny tiny size and this causes a big band that throws out all matter...over and over this happens...all things are created, then all things are destroyed and re-creation begins...the concept is sooo big and so long, yet it feels real...it is cyclic and seems like a natural thing...i can see this and i can accept this concept...this would be as close to re-incarnation as i can see...re-incarnation on a universal, not an individual, size...
2. the "lonely" universe therory---this is the one i can't wrap my head around...this is the one that makes me ****ing sad...big bang throws everything out in one big cosmic hurl...everything keeps going and going and going forever and ever...slowing losing energy and spreading out...stars die and keep moving, world die and keep drifting out and away...till nothing is "alive", nothing is near anything and everything is dead and floating further and further out into nothing....ugggghhh...that just feels soooo wrong and un-natural...no cycle, no nothing....one big bang, one spread of matter and, with a whimper, the end
3. cosmic rip therory---doesn't feel right to me on any level so i disregard it...
which brings we back to 2 final thoughts...
1. what does this matter, this big bang, this universe, expand into?? and does it go on forever, or does it end like filling a box? if it ends, how? if it doesn't, how?? what was there before space? what is there after space?? how can the universe constantly expand?? how can it go on and on forever? and if it can't, what limits it?
i can't even fathom, how, what and why (which is probably why religion started up in the first place)
2. if our sun explodes, i hope it happens at night and we have at least a couple of minutes warning...i would grab my whole family together in a big hug and tell them not to worry, that i never wanted more than i had right there and that i really never thought i would have so much to love, that i never thought i would be so happy and have so much joy...that i was happy with every minute i spent with them and i was so happy to spend those last moments together...cuz, in the end, that is my religion and my faith...family and love....and in the end that is what is going to keep me strong and keep he happy and keep me sane even as i trudge slowly to my end...family and love...that i can accept, that i can understand, that i can cherish
sorry for the ramble
g
(shit, one day i will learn to proof read before posting)