any improvements to quartz are welcome though i would like to see the double clicking of the top frame bar roll up the window leaving just the top frame bar, as it works in linux, than minimising the window to the dock.
any improvements to quartz are welcome though i would like to see the double clicking of the top frame bar roll up the window leaving just the top frame bar, as it works in linux, than minimising the window to the dock.
That's called windowshading, and it was on the Mac with System 8.5, I believe... about what, six, seven years ago? More? They dropped it for Aqua. It's got nothing to do with Quartz, which is the graphics imaging layer... that's strictly a UI widget concern.
That's called windowshading, and it was on the Mac with System 8.5, I believe... about what, six, seven years ago? More? They dropped it for Aqua. It's got nothing to do with Quartz, which is the graphics imaging layer... that's strictly a UI widget concern.
And it's not a Linuxism.
Well they really should bring it back, the shrinking into the dock is SO windows and really gets annoying, so come on apple, think different, think 8.5
Well they really should bring it back, the shrinking into the dock is SO windows and really gets annoying, so come on apple, think different, think 8.5
I for one really hope they DONT bring that back. I mean really why do people like this feature? And what benefit does it provide over the current system of expose and the dock?
I guess it might be a good idea if you have like 1 or 2 windows open, but as a web programmer with 800 windows open all the time this is just not a practical way of navigating these windows..
I for one really hope they DONT bring that back. I mean really why do people like this feature? And what benefit does it provide over the current system of expose and the dock?
I guess it might be a good idea if you have like 1 or 2 windows open, but as a web programmer with 800 windows open all the time this is just not a practical way of navigating these windows..
for me it's a lot more convenient to just roll up the window than having to span across 2 monitors to reach for the dock. though i agree for single monitors it isnt really needed. though i would love to see a screenie of 800 windows open, thats gotta be a world record
though i would love to see a screenie of 800 windows open, thats gotta be a world record
Hahha okay so maybe a slight exaggeration. I know what you mean with multiple monitors though, but with expose it just shrinks it down on both monitors, Like running to exposes. I dunno I still feel that expose and a dock are a faster more efficient method than window shading.
I for one really hope they DONT bring that back. I mean really why do people like this feature? And what benefit does it provide over the current system of expose and the dock?
I guess it might be a good idea if you have like 1 or 2 windows open, but as a web programmer with 800 windows open all the time this is just not a practical way of navigating these windows..
The ability to quickly see what's behind a window with a double-click, and then put everything back like it was with another double-click. Expose does not do this. Minimizing ot the Dock does not do this. There is nothing built into OS X that can replace Windowshade.
It is very practical. In fact it's just like a real life desktop. On a desktop with tons of documents, do you sometimes flip up one page to look at a page underneath? That's precisely what Windowshade is.
Now imagine this real life situation applied to Expose. Expose forces you to move the documents, then scan the around for the appropriate document, refocus on that document and then do the same thing again to get back to the original. Nice round of extra mouse movement, eh? The same goes for the dock. Click, the window minimizes. You then have to drag your butt all the way down to the dock to maximize the window again.
Windowshade, the Dock and Expose all address different needs.
EDIT: I didn't bother to add accents because Windows is lame and the standard keymap requires you to learn nasty alt-#-#-# combos.
Yeah but more often than not I find my self wanting to see what 3 or 4 documents I have behind the current window, not just one. Double clicking the title bar on 2 or 3 apps and then doing so again to restore everything to where it was seems far less efficient to me than simply pushing one of the thumb buttons on my mouse for either all apps expose or single app expose, Or even a hot corner.
I guess I had just 2 windows open and wanted to see what was underneath one of them then window-shading might be practical but even then what's better about folding up a window and then un-folding it?
I see your expose and real life situations a bit flawed, Yes on a real desk I flip up a document to see whats underneath it but then again I don't have anything close to expose on my desktop in real life.. The problem I have with your theory is this, with window shade I have to focus on a little strip of pixels, double click glance at whats under it, but usually that document I am looking for is 3 or 4 windows down, so I have to keep shading the windows by focusing on this little strip of pixels thats hardly ever in the same place. On the other hand I can perform an expose action and have the windows turn into decent sized icons that display the content of the document right in them. if I need to get to done of those I simply click it and it comes forward, To get back I simply do the same thing... Far less steps than window shade.
When I talk about minimizing and the dock I am talking about a longer term way of getting the window off the desktop but easily accessible when I need it again. Now like I said, If I am applying this to just one or two windows then I guess windowshade is okay, but if I have like 6 title bars floating around my desktop it becomes more of a hindrance to find out which one I want than identifying its icon in the dock or worst case scenario mousing over its icon...
Plus with the dock it attaches an application icon to each minimized window. The OS 9 form of window shading had no such feature.
All in all I guess its a matter of preference, but I have done plenty of work in OS 9 and OS X and I prefer OS X's way of handling window switching than OS 9.
Besides if its really that big of a deal I would just get window shade X anyways
Who said anything about having six title-bars floating around? I'm talking about flipping up one window to see what's underneath...a specific scenario that other devices fail miserably at. That's two actions (or four clicks). Show me another way to see what's underneath a window without moving the pointer and without resorting to more than four button/key clicks.
Who said anything about having six title-bars floating around? I'm talking about flipping up one window to see what's underneath...a specific scenario that other devices fail miserably at. That's two actions (or four clicks). Show me another way to see what's underneath a window without moving the pointer and without resorting to more than four button/key clicks.
I simply want an opacity slider in the title bar.
To the left of the toolbar widget.
Fixed width.
Can be grayed out until moused over. Preference to make it visible all the time or hold option to make visible.
Only affects the opacity of the non-titlebar region, same as Windowshade. Double-click titlebar toggles opacity from 100% to the last percentage chosen by the user. Per window basis. Defaults to a setting in Finder Prefs.
I also want documents to be re-namable in the titlebar. Edit exactly like in the Finder.
Who said anything about having six title-bars floating around? I'm talking about flipping up one window to see what's underneath...a specific scenario that other devices fail miserably at. That's two actions (or four clicks). Show me another way to see what's underneath a window without moving the pointer and without resorting to more than four button/key clicks.
I think that's mentioned because in actual application thats what can end up happening. I remember it happening a lot prior to OS X. I'd windowshade one window to see whats underneath, realize it its not what I want, windowshade another etc. By the the time I'm done I've got multiple reduced windows I then need to UN-windowshade to get back. Not exactly efficient and in some situations annoyingly so.
What are you really wanting to do here? Find a window? F10 then click the window you want. 2 clicks.
But perhaps thats not exactly what you're asking. If you're simply wanting to compare two specific documents, Expose may be annoying too. Really what we need is a standard cmd-tab function for switching docs in apps. If it reacted just how the finder cmd-tab does it'd be great... sticks the most recent switched at beginning so you can flip flop two docs with one shortcut.
System wide, you can use command ~ to switch between application windows. However, the catch is that this only switches between windows in the current application.
window shading is one of my favorite things about windowmaker (a NeXTish window manager for x11). loved it back in the classic days too. would seem logical to me for apple to provide both minimizations and window shading, maybe opt-2x click on the title does one, adn 2x click does the other. or maybe a syspref to alternate between them. i dont like minimizing (unless i'm high, and holding shift...oo smooshy), but shading is teh pwNaGe.
The ability to quickly see what's behind a window with a double-click, and then put everything back like it was with another double-click. Expose does not do this. Minimizing ot the Dock does not do this. There is nothing built into OS X that can replace Windowshade.
so while my desktop is covered in windows, i could be double-clicking to shade and unshade, (where to switch focus from one active app to a windowshaded one and back takes minimum six clicks if dbl-clicking),
whereas I could move my thumb less than an inch on my iBook's trackpad, using Exposé and with zero clicks discover even more valuable info from background processes than a mere windowshade bar provides.
I can gauge the relative progress of tracks in iTunes, the rough percentage of downloads completed in Acquisition, the scene of the movie or video stream playing in the background, redraw completion or rendering progress for apps.
Windowshaded title bars offer almost none of this information compared to Exposé
If your concern it the spatial positioning of windows, hit F10 or gesture to get Exposé moving, then use the plain old Tab key to cycle through the active apps (in their last specified spatial positions)
If you're counting key clicks as important, Windowshading just doesn't seem as efficient.
In OS 8 and 9 versions of Windowshade, if you were like me, you might sometimes superimpose two rolled up bars in the same bit of screen real estate (in order to have more docs 'open' onscreen even if slightly overlapping), you would actually be facing more clicks to shuffle them around and get the feedback you want about window state than Exposé provides by rearranging all active windows for you
maybe I'm just infatuated with Exposé, but I'm struggling to see where Windowshade competes
Windowshade seems built to try and hack a solution to spatial limits on desktop space while allowing for greater clutter in the same pixel bounds, yet doesn't provide the feedback of minimized windows or full docs under the pile
Exposé seems built to detour around the spatial limits and pixel bounds entirely by effectively allowing 'infinite' stacking in the same space without the penalty of lost info due to 'scrolled up' docs, or awkward overhead in accessing items lower in the stack
Quote:
It is very practical. In fact it's just like a real life desktop. On a desktop with tons of documents, do you sometimes flip up one page to look at a page underneath? That's precisely what Windowshade is.
but you're not asking to glance at a page underneath (as expose would allow),
you're asking to glance at only the title of the page underneath... you could tell that the report was on your desk, but no useful info would be revealed unless you then clicked to open that report... where's the savings in real-estate or productivity
and it sounds like what you've described is more precisely Exposé than Windowshade.
Quote:
Now imagine this real life situation applied to Expose. Expose forces you to move the documents, then scan the around for the appropriate document, refocus on that document and then do the same thing again to get back to the original. Nice round of extra mouse movement, eh? The same goes for the dock. Click, the window minimizes. You then have to drag your butt all the way down to the dock to maximize the window again.
Windowshade, the Dock and Expose all address different needs.
EDIT: I didn't bother to add accents because Windows is lame and the standard keymap requires you to learn nasty alt-#-#-# combos.
maybe a combination of Exposé and Windowshade could co-exist,
but the capsule behaviour of window titlebars in many apps to toggle Aqua/Brushed Metal/Small Icons has already claimed the traditional Windowshade switch location, and Exposé still seems to offer a stronger implementation of quasi-spatial finder for my tastes
well, there is a case to be made that sometimes it is better to simply roll up a window. the name stays visible, you remember where it is. whereas when you minimize, not only does its name stay hidden until you "scrub," but it goes to the next available spot assigned by the dock/system, not necessarily by you.
plus, expose's window arrangement is still a bit random. i have sent a comment into apple about this. even if you just minimize all and maximize a screen and then do it again but choose a different screen, the windows keep rearranging themselves, seemingly without a pattern.
i thought maybe the last front window would always be in the upper left corner, but no dice. it just kind gets shuffled in, even if you haven't opened or closed any new windows. trust me, i like expose, but i think there is room for both. and i guarantee that apple will re-implement it as a new "feature" of mac os x.6 or .7 or something.
Just a comment about Exposé: I like its function very much -- it looks cool and offers a much better way of managing windows than only minimising and hiding which is how I coped before. As rok just mentioned, though, the fact that windows shrink to random areas of the screen is very confusing. When you have, say, 6 word documents open along with a handful of other Apps, Expose is quite useless- well not useless, but it makes choosing the correct window very difficult because they all look the same. I have to mouse over each mini-window to see its title. It would be great if instead the first document I opened would always shrink to the top left, the second document just to the right of it and so on down the screen. Something needs to be done with this I feel...
Comments
Originally posted by cybermonkey
any improvements to quartz are welcome though i would like to see the double clicking of the top frame bar roll up the window leaving just the top frame bar, as it works in linux, than minimising the window to the dock.
That's called windowshading, and it was on the Mac with System 8.5, I believe... about what, six, seven years ago? More? They dropped it for Aqua. It's got nothing to do with Quartz, which is the graphics imaging layer... that's strictly a UI widget concern.
And it's not a Linuxism.
Originally posted by Kickaha
That's called windowshading, and it was on the Mac with System 8.5, I believe... about what, six, seven years ago? More? They dropped it for Aqua. It's got nothing to do with Quartz, which is the graphics imaging layer... that's strictly a UI widget concern.
And it's not a Linuxism.
Well they really should bring it back, the shrinking into the dock is SO windows and really gets annoying, so come on apple, think different, think 8.5
The lovely creators at Uninsanity bring you WindowShade X
Keep in mind it's a haxie, and while I don't think this is particularly bad in anyway, since I posed this standard Brad warning of caution.
Edit: I don't use that program though, I find it's not as necessary in OS X to do that. Minimizing did take it's place
It is a good way to keep your screen clean when working with a lot of windows in photoshop instead of minimizing them.
Originally posted by cybermonkey
Well they really should bring it back, the shrinking into the dock is SO windows and really gets annoying, so come on apple, think different, think 8.5
I for one really hope they DONT bring that back. I mean really why do people like this feature? And what benefit does it provide over the current system of expose and the dock?
I guess it might be a good idea if you have like 1 or 2 windows open, but as a web programmer with 800 windows open all the time this is just not a practical way of navigating these windows..
Originally posted by SilentEchoes
I for one really hope they DONT bring that back. I mean really why do people like this feature? And what benefit does it provide over the current system of expose and the dock?
I guess it might be a good idea if you have like 1 or 2 windows open, but as a web programmer with 800 windows open all the time this is just not a practical way of navigating these windows..
for me it's a lot more convenient to just roll up the window than having to span across 2 monitors to reach for the dock. though i agree for single monitors it isnt really needed. though i would love to see a screenie of 800 windows open, thats gotta be a world record
<<Back on topic>>
though i would love to see a screenie of 800 windows open, thats gotta be a world record
Hahha okay so maybe a slight exaggeration. I know what you mean with multiple monitors though, but with expose it just shrinks it down on both monitors, Like running to exposes. I dunno I still feel that expose and a dock are a faster more efficient method than window shading.
Originally posted by SilentEchoes
I for one really hope they DONT bring that back. I mean really why do people like this feature? And what benefit does it provide over the current system of expose and the dock?
I guess it might be a good idea if you have like 1 or 2 windows open, but as a web programmer with 800 windows open all the time this is just not a practical way of navigating these windows..
The ability to quickly see what's behind a window with a double-click, and then put everything back like it was with another double-click. Expose does not do this. Minimizing ot the Dock does not do this. There is nothing built into OS X that can replace Windowshade.
It is very practical. In fact it's just like a real life desktop. On a desktop with tons of documents, do you sometimes flip up one page to look at a page underneath? That's precisely what Windowshade is.
Now imagine this real life situation applied to Expose. Expose forces you to move the documents, then scan the around for the appropriate document, refocus on that document and then do the same thing again to get back to the original. Nice round of extra mouse movement, eh? The same goes for the dock. Click, the window minimizes. You then have to drag your butt all the way down to the dock to maximize the window again.
Windowshade, the Dock and Expose all address different needs.
EDIT: I didn't bother to add accents because Windows is lame and the standard keymap requires you to learn nasty alt-#-#-# combos.
I guess I had just 2 windows open and wanted to see what was underneath one of them then window-shading might be practical but even then what's better about folding up a window and then un-folding it?
I see your expose and real life situations a bit flawed, Yes on a real desk I flip up a document to see whats underneath it but then again I don't have anything close to expose on my desktop in real life.. The problem I have with your theory is this, with window shade I have to focus on a little strip of pixels, double click glance at whats under it, but usually that document I am looking for is 3 or 4 windows down, so I have to keep shading the windows by focusing on this little strip of pixels thats hardly ever in the same place. On the other hand I can perform an expose action and have the windows turn into decent sized icons that display the content of the document right in them. if I need to get to done of those I simply click it and it comes forward, To get back I simply do the same thing... Far less steps than window shade.
When I talk about minimizing and the dock I am talking about a longer term way of getting the window off the desktop but easily accessible when I need it again. Now like I said, If I am applying this to just one or two windows then I guess windowshade is okay, but if I have like 6 title bars floating around my desktop it becomes more of a hindrance to find out which one I want than identifying its icon in the dock or worst case scenario mousing over its icon...
Plus with the dock it attaches an application icon to each minimized window. The OS 9 form of window shading had no such feature.
All in all I guess its a matter of preference, but I have done plenty of work in OS 9 and OS X and I prefer OS X's way of handling window switching than OS 9.
Besides if its really that big of a deal I would just get window shade X anyways
Originally posted by Eugene
Who said anything about having six title-bars floating around? I'm talking about flipping up one window to see what's underneath...a specific scenario that other devices fail miserably at. That's two actions (or four clicks). Show me another way to see what's underneath a window without moving the pointer and without resorting to more than four button/key clicks.
I simply want an opacity slider in the title bar.
To the left of the toolbar widget.
Fixed width.
Can be grayed out until moused over. Preference to make it visible all the time or hold option to make visible.
Only affects the opacity of the non-titlebar region, same as Windowshade. Double-click titlebar toggles opacity from 100% to the last percentage chosen by the user. Per window basis. Defaults to a setting in Finder Prefs.
I also want documents to be re-namable in the titlebar. Edit exactly like in the Finder.
Originally posted by Eugene
Who said anything about having six title-bars floating around? I'm talking about flipping up one window to see what's underneath...a specific scenario that other devices fail miserably at. That's two actions (or four clicks). Show me another way to see what's underneath a window without moving the pointer and without resorting to more than four button/key clicks.
I think that's mentioned because in actual application thats what can end up happening. I remember it happening a lot prior to OS X. I'd windowshade one window to see whats underneath, realize it its not what I want, windowshade another etc. By the the time I'm done I've got multiple reduced windows I then need to UN-windowshade to get back. Not exactly efficient and in some situations annoyingly so.
What are you really wanting to do here? Find a window? F10 then click the window you want. 2 clicks.
But perhaps thats not exactly what you're asking. If you're simply wanting to compare two specific documents, Expose may be annoying too. Really what we need is a standard cmd-tab function for switching docs in apps. If it reacted just how the finder cmd-tab does it'd be great... sticks the most recent switched at beginning so you can flip flop two docs with one shortcut.
Try it.
Unless I'm missing the boat, theres no system-wide standard for changing application windows the same way.
Originally posted by Eugene
The ability to quickly see what's behind a window with a double-click, and then put everything back like it was with another double-click. Expose does not do this. Minimizing ot the Dock does not do this. There is nothing built into OS X that can replace Windowshade.
so while my desktop is covered in windows, i could be double-clicking to shade and unshade, (where to switch focus from one active app to a windowshaded one and back takes minimum six clicks if dbl-clicking),
whereas I could move my thumb less than an inch on my iBook's trackpad, using Exposé and with zero clicks discover even more valuable info from background processes than a mere windowshade bar provides.
I can gauge the relative progress of tracks in iTunes, the rough percentage of downloads completed in Acquisition, the scene of the movie or video stream playing in the background, redraw completion or rendering progress for apps.
Windowshaded title bars offer almost none of this information compared to Exposé
If your concern it the spatial positioning of windows, hit F10 or gesture to get Exposé moving, then use the plain old Tab key to cycle through the active apps (in their last specified spatial positions)
If you're counting key clicks as important, Windowshading just doesn't seem as efficient.
In OS 8 and 9 versions of Windowshade, if you were like me, you might sometimes superimpose two rolled up bars in the same bit of screen real estate (in order to have more docs 'open' onscreen even if slightly overlapping), you would actually be facing more clicks to shuffle them around and get the feedback you want about window state than Exposé provides by rearranging all active windows for you
maybe I'm just infatuated with Exposé, but I'm struggling to see where Windowshade competes
Windowshade seems built to try and hack a solution to spatial limits on desktop space while allowing for greater clutter in the same pixel bounds, yet doesn't provide the feedback of minimized windows or full docs under the pile
Exposé seems built to detour around the spatial limits and pixel bounds entirely by effectively allowing 'infinite' stacking in the same space without the penalty of lost info due to 'scrolled up' docs, or awkward overhead in accessing items lower in the stack
It is very practical. In fact it's just like a real life desktop. On a desktop with tons of documents, do you sometimes flip up one page to look at a page underneath? That's precisely what Windowshade is.
but you're not asking to glance at a page underneath (as expose would allow),
you're asking to glance at only the title of the page underneath... you could tell that the report was on your desk, but no useful info would be revealed unless you then clicked to open that report... where's the savings in real-estate or productivity
and it sounds like what you've described is more precisely Exposé than Windowshade.
Now imagine this real life situation applied to Expose. Expose forces you to move the documents, then scan the around for the appropriate document, refocus on that document and then do the same thing again to get back to the original. Nice round of extra mouse movement, eh? The same goes for the dock. Click, the window minimizes. You then have to drag your butt all the way down to the dock to maximize the window again.
Windowshade, the Dock and Expose all address different needs.
EDIT: I didn't bother to add accents because Windows is lame and the standard keymap requires you to learn nasty alt-#-#-# combos.
maybe a combination of Exposé and Windowshade could co-exist,
but the capsule behaviour of window titlebars in many apps to toggle Aqua/Brushed Metal/Small Icons has already claimed the traditional Windowshade switch location, and Exposé still seems to offer a stronger implementation of quasi-spatial finder for my tastes
plus, expose's window arrangement is still a bit random. i have sent a comment into apple about this. even if you just minimize all and maximize a screen and then do it again but choose a different screen, the windows keep rearranging themselves, seemingly without a pattern.
i thought maybe the last front window would always be in the upper left corner, but no dice. it just kind gets shuffled in, even if you haven't opened or closed any new windows. trust me, i like expose, but i think there is room for both. and i guarantee that apple will re-implement it as a new "feature" of mac os x.6 or .7 or something.
Originally posted by dviant
Eh? Try what? cmd-tab? It switches applications.
Unless I'm missing the boat, theres no system-wide standard for changing application windows the same way.
Use Cmd-Tab to get to App #1. Use Cmd-~ to get the window you want to the fore.
Use Cmd-Tab to get to App #2. Use Cmd-~ to get the window you want to the fore.
Hit Cmd-Tab. App #1, window you selected.
Hit Cmd-Tab. App #2, window you selected.
Hit Cmd-Tab. App #1, window you selected.
Hit Cmd-Tab. App #2, window you selected.
ad nauseum