The NeXTies won and I'm pissed.

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homhom
Posted:
in macOS edited January 2014
When Apple bought NeXT the promise was the marriage of Apple's GUI with NeXT's foundation. What made me and a lot of other real Mac users nervous was that UI was going to take the back seat. It has. Best example I can think of right now is contextual menus. Under Mac OS 9 there was no need for contextual menus because every function could be replicated via a menu, but now I am starting to see items that only exist in contextual menus. Here's an example. In Safari if I want to highlight a term and search google for it I would drag the highlighted term to the Google search field. But I can't, the google search field won't accept text unless the field is activated. Unfortunately as soon as I leave the Google field it deselects so I cannot drag anything to it. There has to be a menu item to search Google for the term. Nope, it doesn't exist. There is a contextual menu item to search for the highlighted term. This sucks. Guy Kawasaki would be rolling over in his grave if he were dead, which thankfully he is not.



Sorry I just had to get it off my chest that Apple doesn't care about UI anymore.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 24
    kim kap solkim kap sol Posts: 2,987member
    Wow...do you have more examples? You bring out one (poor) example and claim Apple doesn't care about the UI forgeting completely about the strides Apple made with Expose.
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  • Reply 2 of 24
    homhom Posts: 1,098member
    Try enabling Folder Actions without a contextual menu when running the Finder in metal-less mode.
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  • Reply 3 of 24
    buonrottobuonrotto Posts: 6,368member
    While I've seen what you're talking about, it's not a NeXT-ies winning problem per se. SketchUp does this for example, and they never made software for NeXT. They did, however make a Cocoa app, which might be where the confusion is. There's nothing in Apple's docs that condones this use of context menus AFAIK, plus Apple just introduced the Actions widget (the gear) to help with contextual options. It's also rather unfair to say that the NeXT crew didn't care about the gUI: they were mainly former Apple folk who did care about it, just that they had some different (but not that different) ideas about it.



    I also think there'a lot of stuff in OS X that long-time Mac users take for granted, things they don't see or assume might be different otherwise. The stuff that is different stands out to people like us so it maybe looks like there's more NeXT in the UI than old Apple. Pound for pound, I'd say the GUI is more Apple than NeXT with a healthy dose of OpenStep thrown in the mix. We just see the changes more prominently.
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  • Reply 4 of 24
    endymionendymion Posts: 375member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by HOM

    There has to be a menu item to search Google for the term. Nope, it doesn't exist.



    Sure it does. Select your text. Go to the Safari menu-->Services-->Search with Google.



    It evens has a command key Shift-Command-L
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  • Reply 5 of 24
    homhom Posts: 1,098member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Endymion

    Sure it does. Select your text. Go to the Safari menu-->Services-->Search with Google.



    It evens has a command key Shift-Command-L




    Shit! Thanks for pointing that out, asshole.



    All kidding aside, I didn't see that. Thanks for pointing it out.



    I'm going to tuck my tail between my legs and walk away sheepishly now.
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  • Reply 6 of 24
    murbotmurbot Posts: 5,262member




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  • Reply 7 of 24
    stoostoo Posts: 1,490member
    The services menu is nice and handy (if a little forgotten ), but why does Quake 3 have shortcuts there ? Any way of getting rid of them?
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  • Reply 8 of 24
    ipeonipeon Posts: 1,122member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by murbot



    I haven't laughed this hard in days.



    I'm not laughing at you HOM, you have to admit, that's funny.



    Back to topic. I would agree with you HOM if we where talking about 10.0. 10.3 is the best OS ever. This from a guy that wanted to kill Apple when I first used OS X Beta.
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  • Reply 9 of 24
    But I think that the lack of drag and drop with the search bar widget is still a valid glitch that should be fixed.



    Wow, they've added some really useful services since I last explored them. The Generate Font samples is excellent, and I never noticed the speak text one. Sweet!
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  • Reply 10 of 24
    drxcmdrxcm Posts: 50member
    similarly you cant drag to the address bar either which never ceases to piss me off..
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  • Reply 11 of 24
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,221member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by drxcm

    similarly you cant drag to the address bar either which never ceases to piss me off..



    I don't understand your problem, but I can drag to mine.
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  • Reply 12 of 24
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    It is indeed inappropriate for a contextual menu to feature items the menu bar does not have. The first major app I can think of that did this was Netscape, back in the early 90s. *All* web browsers have followed that horrible behaviour.
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  • Reply 13 of 24
    endymionendymion Posts: 375member
    What have I done!?!?!



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  • Reply 14 of 24
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Chucker

    It is indeed inappropriate for a contextual menu to feature items the menu bar does not have. The first major app I can think of that did this was Netscape, back in the early 90s. *All* web browsers have followed that horrible behaviour.



    Yeah, Netscape screwed up UI design for the forseeable future.



    Single-clicking on URL links was *NOT* the original model. Berners-Lee had single-click = select, double-click = follow (open), *JUST LIKE THE FINDER* (and Windows, and NeXT (which the web was developed on), and every other freaking system out there).



    Andreesen, the little punk-ass, decided that two clicks was wasteful, and made it a single click, thereby *REQUIRING* a right-click and contextual menu to actually *do* anything with the link, since there's no way to *select* it to then perform an *action* on it.



    Then, after everyone is used to the idiotic single-click-for-everything-method, MS tries to hoist it back into the desktop, with disastrous results. "Do I single-click? Do I double-click?" Heck, I'm not even happy with the Dock for this reason.



    Way to think things through, asswipe.



    Yes, I think there's a special place in UI design hell for Marc. Idiot.
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  • Reply 15 of 24
    nanonano Posts: 179member
    Why drag when you can control-click:

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  • Reply 16 of 24
    homhom Posts: 1,098member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Nano

    Why drag when you can control-click:





    MAKE IT STOP!
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  • Reply 17 of 24
    kim kap solkim kap sol Posts: 2,987member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by HOM

    MAKE IT STOP!



    Send a bug report.



    BTW, it doesn't surprise me that Safari is like this...Hyatt and his team don't really understand what a good interface is about...tabs for example. But I'm surprised they did a good job on the bookmark system and toolbar (although some are pissed that the toolbar isn't standard, I think it was hardcoded for consistency.)
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  • Reply 18 of 24
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Kickaha: agreed, Marc was totally illiterate when it came to UI design. All he apparently knew something about was clever marketing.



    kim: hyatt has *nothing* to do with Safari's GUI. He's only working on WebKit. And it's not "his team" either.
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  • Reply 19 of 24
    kim kap solkim kap sol Posts: 2,987member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Chucker

    Kickaha: agreed, Marc was totally illiterate when it came to UI design. All he apparently knew something about was clever marketing.



    kim: hyatt has *nothing* to do with Safari's GUI. He's only working on WebKit. And it's not "his team" either.




    Geezus...I'm just over-simplifying. I know it's not Hyatt's team...and I know Hyatt has nothing to do with the GUI. He only works on Webcore. But the Safari GUI could be better...don't try to change the subject.
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  • Reply 20 of 24
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Kickaha

    Yeah, Netscape screwed up UI design for the forseeable future.



    Single-clicking on URL links was *NOT* the original model. Berners-Lee had single-click = select, double-click = follow (open), *JUST LIKE THE FINDER* (and Windows, and NeXT (which the web was developed on), and every other freaking system out there).




    You know what's funny? I've seen a lot of older and less computer-savvy people navigate around on the Web, and guess what? They double-click links.



    Marc Andreessen should be made to write batch systems in IBM COBOL for the rest of his life. That man did more to compromise and defeat the Web than anyone else I can think of.
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