I personally think that once you stop working, you start dying.
BR, I think Peru[???---duh--check me out] weened the populace off their version of SS and were able to do it "right"---grandfathering in the preexisting clients.
I have no problem with grandfathering the existing recipients. Furthermore, every red cent that every citizen who is not retired that they put in should be given back tax free once they reach the eligible age of retirement. Social Security taxes should then be dropped down to 1% with NO CAP to provide for those disabled who really need it.
Bunge, ever realize that the poorer people might be able to afford to save money if the government wasn't stealing 13% of their paychecks? Yes yes I know half of that is the employer contribution but in an ideal situation that money would go to the employee.
They've paid their dues in more way than one. Just as we will. The difference is we can now prepare for a Social Security-less future whereas an elder can't prepare for the present. It's too late. So suck it up and fight to end the tax for future generations so your children and grand children don't have to deal with it.
Quit being greedy lazy *****.
Stop the name calling. This is the second time in this thread I have had to warn you.
I have no problem with grandfathering the existing recipients. Furthermore, every red cent that every citizen who is not retired that they put in should be given back tax free once they reach the eligible age of retirement. Social Security taxes should then be dropped down to 1% with NO CAP to provide for those disabled who really need it.
Bunge, ever realize that the poorer people might be able to afford to save money if the government wasn't stealing 13% of their paychecks? Yes yes I know half of that is the employer contribution but in an ideal situation that money would go to the employee.
I think somewhere in this thread I supported the idea of no cap. If not, it's certainly something I think is essential to a healthy Social Security system.
And in case you missed my previous post, I agree that the current generation should be grandfathered in. I also think the future generations should be bred to live without, just in case if nothing else. We probably agree with each other more than we disagree on this topic, but we seem to like to argue about anything so I can continue to do that as well.
Now this is the third time I've told you to be civil. Cut it out bunge.
Where's that justified arrogance now? I'm being plenty civil so don't worry. If you've got a complaint pass it along to a moderator. Telling you that you might look ignorant isn't uncivil. As a matter of fact it might just be accurate. Ignorant isn't derogatory. Derogatory would be something negative, just so you know.
I think somewhere in this thread I supported the idea of no cap. If not, it's certainly something I think is essential to a healthy Social Security system.
And in case you missed my previous post, I agree that the current generation should be grandfathered in. I also think the future generations should be bred to live without, just in case if nothing else. We probably agree with each other more than we disagree on this topic, but we seem to like to argue about anything so I can continue to do that as well.
We should be bred to live without it WITHOUT HAVING TO STILL PAY IT. That's the point.
We should be bred to live without it WITHOUT HAVING TO STILL PAY IT. That's the point.
Weened off of it might be a better way to look at it. Maybe increase the cap to infinity while decreasing the percentage on a scale. The lowest incomes would stop paying all together while the middle and upper incomes would pay smaller percentages. Ultimately it would be dropped for all as the grandfathered people die off.
Nope. Everyone needs to be taxed at an equal percentage. Both progressive and regressive taxes are wholly unfair.
Not at all. The idea that taxes can be equal isn't even possible. Does everyone pay the same amount in property taxes? Are income taxes somehow going to be the same nation wide even if states charge different percentages? Should gas taxes on gasoline for cars be the same as gas taxes on gas for heat? Is alcohol taxed at the same rate as fruit and vegetables?
The system is too ****ed up to make a blanket statement like you do. There are too many exceptions to try and fit one of a million taxes into a perfect ideological view. Social Security can't be made to work perfectly until the rest of the system is brought in line with perfection as well.
Ultimately I'm in favor of a flat tax thought, but the process of moving to that system would have to be gradual or the shift would suffer from the same inequities as our current system supports.
Not at all. The idea that taxes can be equal isn't even possible. Does everyone pay the same amount in property taxes? Are income taxes somehow going to be the same nation wide even if states charge different percentages? Should gas taxes on gasoline for cars be the same as gas taxes on gas for heat? Is alcohol taxed at the same rate as fruit and vegetables?
The system is too ****ed up to make a blanket statement like you do. There are too many exceptions to try and fit one of a million taxes into a perfect ideological view. Social Security can't be made to work perfectly until the rest of the system is brought in line with perfection as well.
Irrelevant.
Quote:
Ultimately I'm in favor of a flat tax thought, but the process of moving to that system would have to be gradual or the shift would suffer from the same inequities as our current system supports.
Flat tax isn't hard to move to. First you drop SS to 5% for everyone, then 3%, then 1% then it's gone. That wasn't hard at all.
Dude, it's a regressive tax right now because of the cap. Making it a flat tax IMPROVES IT.
Out of context it's perfect this way. In the context of all the taxes we have to pay, it just makes the overall system more out of balance. What I'm saying is that you need to balance the entire structure simultaneously otherwise you risk fixing one area and making another completely out of whack.
Out of context it's perfect this way. In the context of all the taxes we have to pay, it just makes the overall system more out of balance. What I'm saying is that you need to balance the entire structure simultaneously otherwise you risk fixing one area and making another completely out of whack.
The whole system is out of whack. By turning a regressive tax into a flat tax it is making it LESS OUT OF WHACK.
Comments
Originally posted by dmz
I personally think that once you stop working, you start dying.
BR, I think Peru[???---duh--check me out] weened the populace off their version of SS and were able to do it "right"---grandfathering in the preexisting clients.
I have no problem with grandfathering the existing recipients. Furthermore, every red cent that every citizen who is not retired that they put in should be given back tax free once they reach the eligible age of retirement. Social Security taxes should then be dropped down to 1% with NO CAP to provide for those disabled who really need it.
Bunge, ever realize that the poorer people might be able to afford to save money if the government wasn't stealing 13% of their paychecks? Yes yes I know half of that is the employer contribution but in an ideal situation that money would go to the employee.
Originally posted by bunge
They've paid their dues in more way than one. Just as we will. The difference is we can now prepare for a Social Security-less future whereas an elder can't prepare for the present. It's too late. So suck it up and fight to end the tax for future generations so your children and grand children don't have to deal with it.
Quit being greedy lazy *****.
Stop the name calling. This is the second time in this thread I have had to warn you.
Originally posted by bunge
Don't tell me what I believe because it might make you look ignorant.
And this thread is starting to overlap. We're all posting at the same time so some responses might not look chronological.
Now this is the third time I've told you to be civil. Cut it out bunge.
Originally posted by BR
I have no problem with grandfathering the existing recipients. Furthermore, every red cent that every citizen who is not retired that they put in should be given back tax free once they reach the eligible age of retirement. Social Security taxes should then be dropped down to 1% with NO CAP to provide for those disabled who really need it.
Bunge, ever realize that the poorer people might be able to afford to save money if the government wasn't stealing 13% of their paychecks? Yes yes I know half of that is the employer contribution but in an ideal situation that money would go to the employee.
I think somewhere in this thread I supported the idea of no cap. If not, it's certainly something I think is essential to a healthy Social Security system.
And in case you missed my previous post, I agree that the current generation should be grandfathered in. I also think the future generations should be bred to live without, just in case if nothing else. We probably agree with each other more than we disagree on this topic, but we seem to like to argue about anything so I can continue to do that as well.
Originally posted by BR
Stop the name calling. This is the second time in this thread I have had to warn you.
***** isn't a bad name. It's a joke.
Originally posted by BR
Now this is the third time I've told you to be civil. Cut it out bunge.
Where's that justified arrogance now? I'm being plenty civil so don't worry. If you've got a complaint pass it along to a moderator. Telling you that you might look ignorant isn't uncivil. As a matter of fact it might just be accurate. Ignorant isn't derogatory. Derogatory would be something negative, just so you know.
Originally posted by bunge
I think somewhere in this thread I supported the idea of no cap. If not, it's certainly something I think is essential to a healthy Social Security system.
And in case you missed my previous post, I agree that the current generation should be grandfathered in. I also think the future generations should be bred to live without, just in case if nothing else. We probably agree with each other more than we disagree on this topic, but we seem to like to argue about anything so I can continue to do that as well.
We should be bred to live without it WITHOUT HAVING TO STILL PAY IT. That's the point.
Originally posted by bunge
Where's that justified arrogance now?
4.
Originally posted by BR
We should be bred to live without it WITHOUT HAVING TO STILL PAY IT. That's the point.
Weened off of it might be a better way to look at it. Maybe increase the cap to infinity while decreasing the percentage on a scale. The lowest incomes would stop paying all together while the middle and upper incomes would pay smaller percentages. Ultimately it would be dropped for all as the grandfathered people die off.
Originally posted by bunge
The lowest incomes would stop paying all together while the middle and upper incomes would pay smaller percentages.
Nope. Everyone needs to be taxed at an equal percentage. Both progressive and regressive taxes are wholly unfair.
Originally posted by BR
Nope. Everyone needs to be taxed at an equal percentage. Both progressive and regressive taxes are wholly unfair.
Not at all. The idea that taxes can be equal isn't even possible. Does everyone pay the same amount in property taxes? Are income taxes somehow going to be the same nation wide even if states charge different percentages? Should gas taxes on gasoline for cars be the same as gas taxes on gas for heat? Is alcohol taxed at the same rate as fruit and vegetables?
The system is too ****ed up to make a blanket statement like you do. There are too many exceptions to try and fit one of a million taxes into a perfect ideological view. Social Security can't be made to work perfectly until the rest of the system is brought in line with perfection as well.
Ultimately I'm in favor of a flat tax thought, but the process of moving to that system would have to be gradual or the shift would suffer from the same inequities as our current system supports.
Originally posted by bunge
Not at all. The idea that taxes can be equal isn't even possible. Does everyone pay the same amount in property taxes? Are income taxes somehow going to be the same nation wide even if states charge different percentages? Should gas taxes on gasoline for cars be the same as gas taxes on gas for heat? Is alcohol taxed at the same rate as fruit and vegetables?
The system is too ****ed up to make a blanket statement like you do. There are too many exceptions to try and fit one of a million taxes into a perfect ideological view. Social Security can't be made to work perfectly until the rest of the system is brought in line with perfection as well.
Irrelevant.
Quote:
Ultimately I'm in favor of a flat tax thought, but the process of moving to that system would have to be gradual or the shift would suffer from the same inequities as our current system supports.
Flat tax isn't hard to move to. First you drop SS to 5% for everyone, then 3%, then 1% then it's gone. That wasn't hard at all.
Originally posted by BR
Irrelevant.
Flat tax isn't hard to move to. First you drop SS to 5% for everyone, then 3%, then 1% then it's gone. That wasn't hard at all.
This doesn't fix the overall tax structure though. You can't fix one piece and leave the rest crooked.
Originally posted by bunge
This doesn't fix the overall tax structure though. You can't fix one piece and leave the rest crooked.
Dude, it's a regressive tax right now because of the cap. Making it a flat tax IMPROVES IT.
Originally posted by BR
Dude, it's a regressive tax right now because of the cap. Making it a flat tax IMPROVES IT.
Out of context it's perfect this way. In the context of all the taxes we have to pay, it just makes the overall system more out of balance. What I'm saying is that you need to balance the entire structure simultaneously otherwise you risk fixing one area and making another completely out of whack.
Originally posted by bunge
Out of context it's perfect this way. In the context of all the taxes we have to pay, it just makes the overall system more out of balance. What I'm saying is that you need to balance the entire structure simultaneously otherwise you risk fixing one area and making another completely out of whack.
The whole system is out of whack. By turning a regressive tax into a flat tax it is making it LESS OUT OF WHACK.