Facts can be cited on both sides. You get yours, I get mine, and we are not going to change each other's minds. Bueno? The facts both support and contradict your position... if these issues were as simple as you make them with the "facts" you are referring to, there would be no debate... which there is no shortage of on this board.
Oh boy. I can't wait for you to provide "facts"...any fact for that matter. Maybe you know something not even the CIA and the inspection teams in Iraq know about re: WMDs...?
If I provided any facts that contradict my position, please point them out. Can't wait.
The only reason we are having to "debate" this, is because some people are partisan zealots who don't wanna look at...facts. And there is no shortage of that on these forums.
The fact is: the WMDs may not have been there. But they were at one time. I want to know where they went... and if they were destroyed, why Saddam did not save his dictatorship and prove it under UN resolution.
Because my time machine is on the blink, I cannot go into the future and tell you all the facts that may or may not come out 5-50 years from now.. that was the entire point. Like you (and to the point of posting in this thread) I am not comfortable saying that we have been given all the info. I simply do not believe that there would have been votes by congress more than once if there was not something there to be had. I find it hard to believe that Bush and crew could totally hoodwink the entire US congress. I believe these things, you don't. Lets agree to disagree.
There is little I can do to change your mind, of that I am sure.
The fact is: the WMDs may not have been there. But they were at one time. I want to know where they went... and if they were destroyed, why Saddam did not save his dictatorship and prove it under UN resolution.
"May not have been there"? LMAO. Yeah, they "may not have been there". The problem here is just ignorance. And I don't mean that in a bad way. You just don't know much about the topic and you obviously haven't taken the time to become fully informed. Where did the weapons go? According to General Hussein Kamel,(a defector and son in law of Saddam, head of the Iraq weapons programs, later ordered killed by Saddam)he ordered them destroyed.
Quote:
"I ordered destruction of all chemical weapons. All weapons - biological, chemical, missile, nuclear were destroyed."
The "funny" thing is that his defection has been cited numerous times by Bush and Co. as proof that Iraq had the weapons. Of course, they very conveniently omitted the part of Kamel's statements(see above)that the weapons had been destroyed.
Quote:
President Bush declared in a 7 October 2002 speech: "In 1995, after several years of deceit by the Iraqi regime, the head of Iraq's military industries defected. It was then that the regime was forced to admit that it had produced more than 30,000 liters of anthrax and other deadly biological agents. The inspectors, however, concluded that Iraq had likely produced two to four times that amount. This is a massive stockpile of biological weapons that has never been accounted for, and capable of killing millions."
# Colin Powell's 5 February 2003 presentation to the UN Security Council claimed: "It took years for Iraq to finally admit that it had produced four tons of the deadly nerve agent, VX. A single drop of VX on the skin will kill in minutes. Four tons. The admission only came out after inspectors collected documentation as a result of the defection of Hussein Kamal, Saddam Hussein's late son-in-law."
# In a speech on 26 August 2002, Vice-President Dick Cheney said Kamel's story "should serve as a reminder to all that we often learned more as the result of defections than we learned from the inspection regime itself"
Because my time machine is on the blink, I cannot go into the future and tell you all the facts that may or may not come out 5-50 years from now.. that was the entire point. Like you (and to the point of posting in this thread) I am not comfortable saying that we have been given all the info.
That's your choice. However, in trying to make a case for war, you think they would withhold info. from Congress as weak as the case has proven to be? ooook, that makes sense.We've been there a year. We have Iraq's top scientists. We have multi-million $ rewards for info. and still nothing.
Quote:
I find it hard to believe that Bush and crew could totally hoodwink the entire US congress. I believe these things, you don't. Lets agree to disagree.
Let's see, claiming the threat was "inminent", there was no time, "couldn't wait for proof that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud over NY",and all the other BS supposedly from sound intelligence, "the best in the world", etc etc etc...can you really blame them for being scared and "acting" when we were was supposedly out of time? Come on.
Quote:
There is little I can do to change your mind, of that I am sure.
Considering the facts that I have produced, compared to your lack of facts, I couldn't agree more. It's not that difficult man. By the way,one of our strongest allies re: Iraq seems to have seen the facts.
President Aleksander Kwasniewski said:
Quote:
WARSAW (Reuters) - Poland, a key U.S. ally in Iraq (news - web sites), admitted on Thursday it felt misled into believing Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.
But he stunned his audience by openly saying what many pro-U.S. officials only dare say in private about the main justification for the war.
"Of course I feel a certain discomfort that we were misled about weapons of mass destruction," he said.
No such weapons have been found since U.S.-led forces deposed Saddam in April last year.
These threads are total flamebait. I don't need to explain to you people what classifies a thread as such because you're all smart enough to know. We're going to start closing down these damn threads as soon as we see them. We're all tired of how degenerate they are. We've asked you to play nicely with the toys we gave you, and you people have shown that you cannot.
If you have a problem with this policy, contact Brad.
Comments
Originally posted by Jubelum
Um, return replies I'm leaving. Nope.
Facts can be cited on both sides. You get yours, I get mine, and we are not going to change each other's minds. Bueno? The facts both support and contradict your position... if these issues were as simple as you make them with the "facts" you are referring to, there would be no debate... which there is no shortage of on this board.
Oh boy. I can't wait for you to provide "facts"...any fact for that matter. Maybe you know something not even the CIA and the inspection teams in Iraq know about re: WMDs...?
If I provided any facts that contradict my position, please point them out. Can't wait.
The only reason we are having to "debate" this, is because some people are partisan zealots who don't wanna look at...facts. And there is no shortage of that on these forums.
Because my time machine is on the blink, I cannot go into the future and tell you all the facts that may or may not come out 5-50 years from now.. that was the entire point. Like you (and to the point of posting in this thread) I am not comfortable saying that we have been given all the info. I simply do not believe that there would have been votes by congress more than once if there was not something there to be had. I find it hard to believe that Bush and crew could totally hoodwink the entire US congress. I believe these things, you don't. Lets agree to disagree.
There is little I can do to change your mind, of that I am sure.
Good Day, Sir.
Originally posted by Jubelum
The fact is: the WMDs may not have been there. But they were at one time. I want to know where they went... and if they were destroyed, why Saddam did not save his dictatorship and prove it under UN resolution.
"May not have been there"? LMAO. Yeah, they "may not have been there". The problem here is just ignorance. And I don't mean that in a bad way. You just don't know much about the topic and you obviously haven't taken the time to become fully informed. Where did the weapons go? According to General Hussein Kamel,(a defector and son in law of Saddam, head of the Iraq weapons programs, later ordered killed by Saddam)he ordered them destroyed.
"I ordered destruction of all chemical weapons. All weapons - biological, chemical, missile, nuclear were destroyed."
http://middleeastreference.org.uk/kamel.html
The "funny" thing is that his defection has been cited numerous times by Bush and Co. as proof that Iraq had the weapons. Of course, they very conveniently omitted the part of Kamel's statements(see above)that the weapons had been destroyed.
President Bush declared in a 7 October 2002 speech: "In 1995, after several years of deceit by the Iraqi regime, the head of Iraq's military industries defected. It was then that the regime was forced to admit that it had produced more than 30,000 liters of anthrax and other deadly biological agents. The inspectors, however, concluded that Iraq had likely produced two to four times that amount. This is a massive stockpile of biological weapons that has never been accounted for, and capable of killing millions."
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0021007-8.html
# Colin Powell's 5 February 2003 presentation to the UN Security Council claimed: "It took years for Iraq to finally admit that it had produced four tons of the deadly nerve agent, VX. A single drop of VX on the skin will kill in minutes. Four tons. The admission only came out after inspectors collected documentation as a result of the defection of Hussein Kamal, Saddam Hussein's late son-in-law."
http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2003/17300.htm
# In a speech on 26 August 2002, Vice-President Dick Cheney said Kamel's story "should serve as a reminder to all that we often learned more as the result of defections than we learned from the inspection regime itself"
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea.../20020826.html
Because my time machine is on the blink, I cannot go into the future and tell you all the facts that may or may not come out 5-50 years from now.. that was the entire point. Like you (and to the point of posting in this thread) I am not comfortable saying that we have been given all the info.
That's your choice. However, in trying to make a case for war, you think they would withhold info. from Congress as weak as the case has proven to be? ooook, that makes sense.We've been there a year. We have Iraq's top scientists. We have multi-million $ rewards for info. and still nothing.
I find it hard to believe that Bush and crew could totally hoodwink the entire US congress. I believe these things, you don't. Lets agree to disagree.
Let's see, claiming the threat was "inminent", there was no time, "couldn't wait for proof that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud over NY",and all the other BS supposedly from sound intelligence, "the best in the world", etc etc etc...can you really blame them for being scared and "acting" when we were was supposedly out of time? Come on.
There is little I can do to change your mind, of that I am sure.
Considering the facts that I have produced, compared to your lack of facts, I couldn't agree more. It's not that difficult man. By the way,one of our strongest allies re: Iraq seems to have seen the facts.
President Aleksander Kwasniewski said:
WARSAW (Reuters) - Poland, a key U.S. ally in Iraq (news - web sites), admitted on Thursday it felt misled into believing Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.
But he stunned his audience by openly saying what many pro-U.S. officials only dare say in private about the main justification for the war.
"Of course I feel a certain discomfort that we were misled about weapons of mass destruction," he said.
No such weapons have been found since U.S.-led forces deposed Saddam in April last year.
Link
There is none so blind as he who does not want to see
Wise old proverb.
Edit: to include Poland President's name.
These threads are total flamebait. I don't need to explain to you people what classifies a thread as such because you're all smart enough to know. We're going to start closing down these damn threads as soon as we see them. We're all tired of how degenerate they are. We've asked you to play nicely with the toys we gave you, and you people have shown that you cannot.
If you have a problem with this policy, contact Brad.