Anyone that buys high octane is a chump. I just drove from Chicago to Detroit and gas was about 1.8 to 1.6. Bush wont let it get to $3. Election year.
Again, in california the gas price situation is much worse, and as such I'm(we're?) more sensitive to these things. Last I was there it was over $2.0/gallon for regular, and I barely even remember when it was below $1/gallon
It may not get to $3/gallon where you are, but I definitely see it happening if recent trends here progress.
Gas price has been going up on the whole you can't dispute that, they have gone down for periods of time, but after a period of lower prices, it always goes back up, usually to a higher rate that it was before, particularly in california.
either way, hybrid vehicles are the future, for a while at least. their prices will go down, and it's likely that while that happens gas prices will go up. Combine that with tax breaks that you can get for owning a hybrid, gives people a lot more incentive to get one, even if it means shelling out a few more dollars initially.
This is a little off topic. A friend of mine says that GM owns every American built car company. I don't believe him. Personally I think he's crazy. Maybe he's not. If this is true can someone find the proof.
Not exactly, but GM does own the Chevy, GMC, Pontiac, and Cadillac brands. They also have a stake in Saab. Many parts are shared between them, with some cars simply the same (i.e. Chevy Suburban, GMC Yukon, et al.)
that said, at least a gallon of gas gets you a lot farther in germany than in southern california
Not if your doing 150 mph on the autobahn.
In cities, I don't get to 5th gear too often, because either the traffic is high, or the city is too narrow to go fast. That leads to lower gas mileage. In Detroit, I can leave it at 5th doing 40-50 on main roads. Of course, everything is at least twice as far in Detroit as here.
The price of gas in Europe has been around $4.00/gal for as long as I can remember, euro/dollar conversion aside. People save a few pfennigs buying gas in Austria instead of Germany, but that's about it.
I mean, I hate SUV's almost as much as Arianna Huffington (and unlike her, I never drove one). But we live in a free-market economy, and only a few of the people driving these monsters are people who are able to take the tax loophole to get one. People drive them because they want to.
What bugs me is that the minute the price of gas gets up over 2 bucks per gallon the local news will have a reporter dutifully recording the reaction of Sally Hausfrau filling up the Ford ExxonValdez (that she needed so very badly) bitching that she has to spend a fortune to fill it up.
So my statement is more or less moot, especially since I haven't been to germany and I don't know how spread out it is compared to SoCal, but if it's anything like SoCal(valleys/coast north of LA) then it still takes you a half a tank of gas to get anywhere it seems
Germany is a bit more populated than California (82 million compared to 32 million), so most of the time, you don't have to drive too long (depends on to which 'anywhere' you want to drive )
Then there is GM's European operation: Opel (still called ?Vauxhall? in the UK) and the Australian subsidiary: Holden.
Some Daewoos are sold now as Chevrolets, and some Subarus as Saabs.
As for Ford not being a promise keeper or a protector of damsels in distress, I thought that MPGs had more to do with fuel consumption than with the environment or road safety.
Now if I wanted safety I'd buy a Volvo, and a hybrid if I wanted less environemental damage. But then my preferred transportation is the green bus so I might be biased?
Still, Ford might yet build a Volvo hybrid off-roader 4WD for all we know, if they just could be persuaded people might buy it.
Other than that, I wouldn't expect too much from that DaimlerChrylser promise of ?accident-free driving? either.
Ford may want to get its act together if they don't want a big lawsuit.
Free will prevents someone suing over gas milage... unless Ford lied on the sticker, which is very hard to do w/o federal intervention. The only place you can sue a company over a product you knew was bad is the tobacco industry. Otherwise the market takes care of these things.
Korean manufacturer Kia is known to make cars based on Mazda parts, and some of its products were even sold under the Mazda and Ford names.
If I'm not mistaken, it was recently absorbed by Hyundai, so now you can also find Kias with Hyundai/Mitsubishi parts as well.
As for Geo, it used to be the ?younger, trendier? sub-marque (like Toyota's ?Scion? thing) for Chevrolet, selling cars and 4WDs from Toyota and [Suzuki] , as well the ?Geo Prizm?, a re-badged Toyota Sprinter made in California by the GM/Toyota joint venture NUMMI.
It has since been dissolved, although Chevy still sells Suzuki-designed 4WDs (Tracker?) and NUMMI provides Pontiac with the ?Vibe? crossover vehicle, a re-badged Toyota Voltz.
where I live, converted into dollars, a LITRE of gas costs $1.56 .Actually I support high petrol prices, and I really wish the USA would stick a whopper tax on gas and intro small engine cars.
Its like my whole engine is the same size a one of your cylinders. Fortunately, I can quite comfortably drive around in 5th gear, at anything above 15mph, no thats not a typo! just a real torquey engine.
where I live, converted into dollars, a LITRE of gas costs $1.56 .Actually I support high petrol prices, and I really wish the USA would stick a whopper tax on gas and intro small engine cars.
I hear you on that. If US gas prices were on average $3/gallon, people wouldn't buy inefficient cars unless they needed them.
I mean, I hate SUV's almost as much as Arianna Huffington (and unlike her, I never drove one). But we live in a free-market economy, and only a few of the people driving these monsters are people who are able to take the tax loophole to get one. People drive them because they want to.
And people want to so that they can more easily deal with all the other SUVs on the road. Nobody wants to be a little car in a sea of huge trucks. Might as well drive blindfolded.
There's also the unfortunate fact that people buy them for their kids (lots of frosh driving them here) because they think they're safe. If that little misconception got cleared up I think there'd be fewer sales.
But it's hard to compete with the high vantage point and the feeling of safety when what it essentially does is put you on an equal footing with the rest of the class of '08...
I was listening to some auto honchos at the car show on TV the other day, and is seems that while almost all car companies have Hybrids coming out soon, very few are promoting or advocating the use of the technology for better mileage (and consequently lower fuel costs).
Instead, they are promoting the hybrid technology as a 'performance booster', allowing middle to high-end sports cars and trucks to gain more horsepower while maintaining the same fuel standards.
While I am sure that there are some people happy that they'll get 250hp instead of 230 hp while maintaining 15mpg in their car, I'm close to dumbfounded that only Toyota has made a puch for cars with average performance , but great fuel efficiency.
I'm not a big car guy. I currently have a saturn, and it gets me from point A to point B just fine. It gets abut 28-30 mpg. The only cars I would like to buy (and I'm sure I'm not the only one) is something similar that gets 60 mpg. That to me, is much better than tweaking a sports car so it can exceed the speed limit that much easier.
And I find it interesting that the tax credits for Hybrid vehicles are being phased out, yet I can buy a 60,000 Hummer for my 'business' and write the whole thing off....
Oil companies have a very very long reach in politics and economics...
It's interesting because, our current car situation has very little room for such a car; people want to go fast, they want power, and they often need space and storage capacity.
That said, If the average car was akin to this prototype, we'd barely have a problem at all in terms of using up oil.
Of course, Hybrid Prototypes were getting ~80-90 MPG and then when they dropped to the public that went down considerable. Additionally, a 'thin' car isn't really practical currently because there are two many monsters out there that would make it fairly unsafe to drive around I think.
But it's a novel Idea, and it shows what a little sacrifice of power and size can do for fuel efficiency.
yeah, I forgot about diesel, but then again it's not exactly standard. but whatever works I guess. Of course, older diesel cars supposedly are more pollutant? is that due to the car or the fuel?
Comments
Originally posted by Scott
Anyone that buys high octane is a chump. I just drove from Chicago to Detroit and gas was about 1.8 to 1.6. Bush wont let it get to $3. Election year.
Again, in california the gas price situation is much worse, and as such I'm(we're?) more sensitive to these things. Last I was there it was over $2.0/gallon for regular, and I barely even remember when it was below $1/gallon
It may not get to $3/gallon where you are, but I definitely see it happening if recent trends here progress.
Gas price has been going up on the whole you can't dispute that, they have gone down for periods of time, but after a period of lower prices, it always goes back up, usually to a higher rate that it was before, particularly in california.
either way, hybrid vehicles are the future, for a while at least. their prices will go down, and it's likely that while that happens gas prices will go up. Combine that with tax breaks that you can get for owning a hybrid, gives people a lot more incentive to get one, even if it means shelling out a few more dollars initially.
Originally posted by quagmire
This is a little off topic. A friend of mine says that GM owns every American built car company. I don't believe him. Personally I think he's crazy. Maybe he's not. If this is true can someone find the proof.
Not exactly, but GM does own the Chevy, GMC, Pontiac, and Cadillac brands. They also have a stake in Saab. Many parts are shared between them, with some cars simply the same (i.e. Chevy Suburban, GMC Yukon, et al.)
Ford has a similar set-up.
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
that said, at least a gallon of gas gets you a lot farther in germany than in southern california
Not if your doing 150 mph on the autobahn.
In cities, I don't get to 5th gear too often, because either the traffic is high, or the city is too narrow to go fast. That leads to lower gas mileage. In Detroit, I can leave it at 5th doing 40-50 on main roads. Of course, everything is at least twice as far in Detroit as here.
The price of gas in Europe has been around $4.00/gal for as long as I can remember, euro/dollar conversion aside. People save a few pfennigs buying gas in Austria instead of Germany, but that's about it.
So here's the trick:
Stop buying SUVs, and they'll stop building them.
Thus endeth Economics 101.
Originally posted by GardenOfEarthlyDelights
Stop buying SUVs, and they'll stop building them.
THANK YOU
I mean, I hate SUV's almost as much as Arianna Huffington (and unlike her, I never drove one). But we live in a free-market economy, and only a few of the people driving these monsters are people who are able to take the tax loophole to get one. People drive them because they want to.
What bugs me is that the minute the price of gas gets up over 2 bucks per gallon the local news will have a reporter dutifully recording the reaction of Sally Hausfrau filling up the Ford ExxonValdez (that she needed so very badly) bitching that she has to spend a fortune to fill it up.
You make your bed.....
Originally posted by job
GM does own the Chevy, GMC, Pontiac, and Cadillac brands. They also have a stake in Saab.
General Motors is:
Saturn,
Oldsmobile,
Buick,
Saab,
Cadillac,
Hummer,
Pontiac,
GMC,
and
Chevrolet.
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
So my statement is more or less moot, especially since I haven't been to germany and I don't know how spread out it is compared to SoCal, but if it's anything like SoCal(valleys/coast north of LA) then it still takes you a half a tank of gas to get anywhere it seems
Germany is a bit more populated than California (82 million compared to 32 million), so most of the time, you don't have to drive too long (depends on to which 'anywhere' you want to drive
Originally posted by Brad
General Motors is:
Saturn,
Oldsmobile,
Buick,
Saab,
Cadillac,
Hummer,
Pontiac,
GMC,
and
Chevrolet.
As well as Daewoo, Isuzu, Subaru, and Suzuki.
Then there is GM's European operation: Opel (still called ?Vauxhall? in the UK) and the Australian subsidiary: Holden.
Some Daewoos are sold now as Chevrolets, and some Subarus as Saabs.
As for Ford not being a promise keeper or a protector of damsels in distress, I thought that MPGs had more to do with fuel consumption than with the environment or road safety.
Now if I wanted safety I'd buy a Volvo, and a hybrid if I wanted less environemental damage. But then my preferred transportation is the green bus so I might be biased?
Still, Ford might yet build a Volvo hybrid off-roader 4WD for all we know, if they just could be persuaded people might buy it.
Other than that, I wouldn't expect too much from that DaimlerChrylser promise of ?accident-free driving? either.
Originally posted by quagmire
Ford may want to get its act together if they don't want a big lawsuit.
Free will prevents someone suing over gas milage... unless Ford lied on the sticker, which is very hard to do w/o federal intervention. The only place you can sue a company over a product you knew was bad is the tobacco industry. Otherwise the market takes care of these things.
Originally posted by DeManON
KIA, GEO?
Korean manufacturer Kia is known to make cars based on Mazda parts, and some of its products were even sold under the Mazda and Ford names.
If I'm not mistaken, it was recently absorbed by Hyundai, so now you can also find Kias with Hyundai/Mitsubishi parts as well.
As for Geo, it used to be the ?younger, trendier? sub-marque (like Toyota's ?Scion? thing) for Chevrolet, selling cars and 4WDs from Toyota and [Suzuki] , as well the ?Geo Prizm?, a re-badged Toyota Sprinter made in California by the GM/Toyota joint venture NUMMI.
It has since been dissolved, although Chevy still sells Suzuki-designed 4WDs (Tracker?) and NUMMI provides Pontiac with the ?Vibe? crossover vehicle, a re-badged Toyota Voltz.
Its like my whole engine is the same size a one of your cylinders. Fortunately, I can quite comfortably drive around in 5th gear, at anything above 15mph, no thats not a typo! just a real torquey engine.
Originally posted by MarcUK
where I live, converted into dollars, a LITRE of gas costs $1.56 .Actually I support high petrol prices, and I really wish the USA would stick a whopper tax on gas and intro small engine cars.
I hear you on that. If US gas prices were on average $3/gallon, people wouldn't buy inefficient cars unless they needed them.
well, that's the optimistic outcome.
Originally posted by tmp
THANK YOU
I mean, I hate SUV's almost as much as Arianna Huffington (and unlike her, I never drove one). But we live in a free-market economy, and only a few of the people driving these monsters are people who are able to take the tax loophole to get one. People drive them because they want to.
And people want to so that they can more easily deal with all the other SUVs on the road. Nobody wants to be a little car in a sea of huge trucks. Might as well drive blindfolded.
There's also the unfortunate fact that people buy them for their kids (lots of frosh driving them here) because they think they're safe. If that little misconception got cleared up I think there'd be fewer sales.
But it's hard to compete with the high vantage point and the feeling of safety when what it essentially does is put you on an equal footing with the rest of the class of '08...
Originally posted by MarcUK
I really wish the USA would stick a whopper tax on gas
Yea, let's spread the misery equally among nations. Maybe we can get a 30% tax on all UK goods sold in the USA?
Instead, they are promoting the hybrid technology as a 'performance booster', allowing middle to high-end sports cars and trucks to gain more horsepower while maintaining the same fuel standards.
While I am sure that there are some people happy that they'll get 250hp instead of 230 hp while maintaining 15mpg in their car, I'm close to dumbfounded that only Toyota has made a puch for cars with average performance , but great fuel efficiency.
I'm not a big car guy. I currently have a saturn, and it gets me from point A to point B just fine. It gets abut 28-30 mpg. The only cars I would like to buy (and I'm sure I'm not the only one) is something similar that gets 60 mpg. That to me, is much better than tweaking a sports car so it can exceed the speed limit that much easier.
And I find it interesting that the tax credits for Hybrid vehicles are being phased out, yet I can buy a 60,000 Hummer for my 'business' and write the whole thing off....
Oil companies have a very very long reach in politics and economics...
link
This car/prototype gets ~235 MPG!
It's interesting because, our current car situation has very little room for such a car; people want to go fast, they want power, and they often need space and storage capacity.
That said, If the average car was akin to this prototype, we'd barely have a problem at all in terms of using up oil.
Of course, Hybrid Prototypes were getting ~80-90 MPG and then when they dropped to the public that went down considerable. Additionally, a 'thin' car isn't really practical currently because there are two many monsters out there that would make it fairly unsafe to drive around I think.
But it's a novel Idea, and it shows what a little sacrifice of power and size can do for fuel efficiency.
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
This is very cool here
link
This car/prototype gets ~235 MPG!
I would buy that in a second. I rarely go faster than 70 MPH and 235 MPG sure beats the 45 MPG I get now.
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
45? you have a hybrid or something? I've never heard of ~45 for standard cars.
1997.5 VW Passat TDI.
Diesel Baby!
Originally posted by HOM
1997.5 VW Passat TDI.
Diesel Baby!
yeah, I forgot about diesel, but then again it's not exactly standard. but whatever works I guess. Of course, older diesel cars supposedly are more pollutant? is that due to the car or the fuel?