the ultimate oversight

Posted:
in Current Mac Hardware edited January 2014
my 2¢...



i feel that apple's ultimate oversight with marketing is that they don't seem to recognise that NONE of us mac users consider ourselves "consumer" level. meaning, that since we buy apple in the first place, we are somewhat feeling as if we are "creatives", with an eye for aesthetics, design, quality, AND performance, etc... so, b/c we (somewhat) consciously CHOOSE to buy apple over pc, we do rightfully expect to have a FAR superior quality machine and os without question or doubt. when you take the plunge and decide to spend your (more than likely) "artistic" level, hard-earned income on a new machine, be it $1200, or $4000, AND you consider the quality of the offerings of the competition... you do your best to have faith that you won't be disappointed within 3 months of your highly emotional purchase (face it, it is an emotional purchase. otherwise you would just instantly buy pc, no questions)



my point being that apple really needs to take a step back and realise they are creating machines for the creative market in a majority sense, which means we are obviously more intelligent, and inquisitive about where and what we put our energies/finances into. we seek out the best, and deserve the best. anything less is borderline ruthless disrespect and insulting. please, don't get me wrong, yes, apple makes wonderful machines... but for the $??? do you REALLY feel as though we are getting our FULL value in comparison of the overall computer industry's offerings? how long will this "in the works" continue??? (ie drivers, compatibility, features) sure, i understand and appreciate a growth curve. but as a consumer, and creative, who wants the fairest deal available, without any worries about whether or not the company will have his back when a new release that won't be backwards compatible in order to use a highly required new feature for possible work purposes happens.... (get that?), i admit, i feel a little sketchy about getting ready to spend my extremely hard-earned-hard-to-part-with $3000 as a college student (references a tibook for my design programmes). and yes i realise that apple does make things backwards compatible.. but... it's never "optimised" to run at it's full capacity, and THAT'S annoying.



using a mac, we tend to feel are all automatically at a certain "pro" level in some aspects. it's that conscious choice that helps to distinguish us. i feel that apple needs to recognise this in a large way and quit handing us out little peices of candy updates and when they do a revision.. REALLY do a revision. in the words of Bob Dylan ? "... and if you don't underestimate me, I won't underestimate you."



please apple, quit underestimating us. we want to love you wholeheartedly, yet you make it soo tiresome.



just felt like sharing~
«1

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 22
    scott f.scott f. Posts: 276member
    Well... I disagree with you, but respectfully. It is MY opinion that you are misinformed about Apple's numbers. The BULK of it's sales over the past few years has BEEN the consumer machines... the iMac and the later-introduced iBook. There are WAY more people buying the consumer machines than the Pro ones... I think the reason it SEEMS like there are more "Pro" users is because these types of newsgroups and message boards are populated with people that DO require more from their computer(s)... but the bulk of the people (IMHO) that are just "typical" consumer-level Mac users just "use" the computer for what they need, and do NOT surf around these types of websites.



    The Macs they buy suit their needs... as a matter of fact... the few people I know that BOUGHT consumer macs (2 iMac CRT and 1 iBook 14.1) are plenty happy with their machine, and they are definately NOT caught-up in the "next best thing" carousel" like some of us are... when the new iBooks came out... I mentioned it to my girlfriend who has the earlier 14.1 iBook and she could care less if there was a new one 4-TIMES the speed... she likes the one she has... same thing with the iMac users... they have no desire for upgrading... they're happy with what they've got.



    Not ALL of us are "Gear-a-holics" that need that "next-best-speed-boost" to get by.



    My bet is that the MAJORITY of it's consumer sales (which dominate their sales right now) are to people that really don't care about the "Speed Race".



    Just my opinion...
  • Reply 2 of 22
    i appreciate that scott. however, i can't help but feel as if most people buy the "consumer" models out of simple justification of price/affordability?? ie, don't you think your g/f would have bought just about anything you told her to? (not to sound degrading in anyway) sure, macs are simpley "fun" to "consumers" but just seems as though their bread&butter is us "gearheads" in the long haul. ie repeat buyers. hope i got this across effectively? so, for us repeat buyers, just seems we should have available more for our reinvested $. thanks for sharing!



    ps.

    i really do believe there are more "pro" users on the mac. simpley b/c your everyday joe just would'nt consider a mac. they are bombarded with windows users convicing them that macs are crap. it's only the more intelligent, open minded sorts, ie creative, professional designers, musicians, architects, etc. that use mac with confidence. hence, there's the TRUE market... (imo)



    [ 05-20-2002: Message edited by: sleepy monkie ]</p>
  • Reply 3 of 22
    posterboyposterboy Posts: 147member
    I'd just like to jump in with my 2 cents here. I work for an Apple Authorised Reseller, and I can guarantee you that there are way more consumer users than ro users. It does not take too much to sell someone on a mac, but it can take a lot to sell someone on a PowerMac or PowerBook. The new iMac G4s have been selling well among users who need the power but not the upgradeablility (read: not Protools users).



    One thing that may make it seem like there are as many pro users as consumer is that on Pro user may drop close to 4000$ USD (based on Apple Store pricing of PowerMac 2x1000 w/ Zip and 17" Apple Flat Panel, and not including any of the software packages they may need such as Photoshop (+600$), Final Cut Pro (+1000$) or DVD Studio Pro (+1000$)) whereas it would take two consumer users to spend that much (based on Apple Store Pricing on iMac G4 w/ zip 250 USB).



    I have to agree with Scott on this one, that it just seems like there are more pro users than consumer. I get this impression for a few reasons:

    1) More pro users than consumer populate web boards like this one

    2) Apple consumer machines ship with feautres similar to professional PCs

    3) iApps make everyone feel like a a pro (I realise this is a sales line, but to some degree it is true. iMovie is the best example of an app that Apple has done better than the competition (being Windows Movie Maker and Sony Movie Shaker).



    Just my opinion as a Salesperson.



    --PB



    [ 05-20-2002: Message edited by: PosterBoy ]</p>
  • Reply 4 of 22
    Hey, I'm a "consumer" user and my iBook 600 12.1" combo is perfect for me, or was perfect until this new iBook 700 12.1" was announced. I came over from a Toshiba PC laptop, and I've been more than happy with the move, especially since OS X. What do I do with my consumer iBook? Mostly communication stuff, i.e. email, web browse, and entertainment stuff, i.e. iTunes, DVD player, and games (Spider-man, lately). When I buy a decent digital camera, then I'll be using iPhoto a lot more, and maybe Tiffany 3. I have MS Office X but I hardly ever use it, preferring Mail to Entourage. I write some articles for magazines, but they don't want Word files and rather prefer unformatted text sent in as emails. I may buy Dreamweaver MX and start doing some web design work for some organizations I'm affiliated with, and who knows, if I end up going pro, then maybe the iBook won't be enough for me and I can then buy a Powerbook. For now, though, my iBook serves me well, better, in fact, than any PC I've owned.
  • Reply 5 of 22
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    Sales figures do not support your claims, Sleeping Monkie.
  • Reply 6 of 22
    mac voyermac voyer Posts: 1,283member
    Pro users are not necesarrily tech heads. There are many people using Photoshop (pro) on an iMac/iBook (consumer). A creative professional has no greater knowledge of the iner workings of Altivec than anyone else. A graphics designer spends her time graphically designing, not studying computer specifications. Musicians are much more into their gear than most professionals because it greatly effects the quality of their craft, not just the time they spend rendering a photo.



    My point is, creative professionals who buy into the Mac spin machine are trusting that the machine they buy truly is better suited for the work they are doing than a PC. They buy what fits their budget and trust that they get a good bang for their buck. The boards are ful of people who complain about the performance of consumer Macs with particular tasks. The response is, "You should have bought a PM/B."



    Don't make the mistake of assuming that people who buy consumer products don't need power. Remember, only Apple divides people up into such categories.
  • Reply 7 of 22
    ... very interesting responses. especially when resorting to sales figures... remember this when you post your "i wanna see" 's in other areas. seems ironic in a way. but thanks nonetheless.



    i do appreciate all of the responses. however, does everyone who bothers to follow apple feel as if they are without-a-shadow-of-a-doubt-110% getting their $'s worth in contrast to the level of the rest of the industry's offerings (ie 1.6~2.0Ghz laptops running at full desktop speeds, also 64Mgb graphics acclerator, 400mhz bus sys.. all for the same-if-not lower price point??? and not to mention much sooner than apple?) just an honest question, take no offense. and please, please, don't just justify for sake of affordability. i guess i'm looking strictly in terms of performance/feature to $ ratio? enjoy.



    [ 05-20-2002: Message edited by: sleepy monkie ]</p>
  • Reply 8 of 22
    Like I said, I've been so happy with my iBook that I don't even feel the need to look at other computers. If only I could have said that about my ex-wife.
  • Reply 9 of 22
    applenutapplenut Posts: 5,768member
    consumer models may sell in higher volume but Apple makes it revenue, gross margin, and profit off the pros.
  • Reply 10 of 22
    [quote]Originally posted by sleepy monkie:

    <strong>...

    i do appreciate all of the responses. however, does everyone who bothers to follow apple feel as if they are without-a-shadow-of-a-doubt-110% getting their $'s worth in contrast to the level of the rest of the industry's offerings (ie 1.6~2.0Ghz laptops running at full desktop speeds, also 64Mgb graphics acclerator, 400mhz bus sys.. all for the same-if-not lower price point??? and not to mention much sooner than apple?) just an honest question, take no offense. and please, please, don't just justify for sake of affordability. i guess i'm looking strictly in terms of performance/feature to $ ratio? enjoy. </strong><hr></blockquote>



    I work better on a Mac than I do on a Windows machine. I need a mac to function. Sure, all of the apps I use in X, with the exception of BBEdit, run on Windows, and I use Windows almost every day alongside my Mac. I'll never switch. You could give me the fastest AMD system available right now, and I would still be more productive on my mac.



    You really need to look beyond the numbers sometimes. Yeah, it irks me a little, but I'm not going to switch to a platform that is going to raise my stress level and that I feel less comfortable working on.



    What you want to hear is someone agreeing that Windows machines only seem to get faster and cheaper and more rapidly than a Windows machine. That should irritate us, and make us want to buy a PC, and for some of us we do. But it's not just the numbers...



    If you have a car that can go 400 mph, but the gas pedal is too far away for you to reach, that hinders your ability to drive it. My mac may only be doing 200mph, but at least I can reach the pedals. Maybe for some folks out there though, they can reach the pedals on that 400mph beast, and more power to them. I can't
  • Reply 11 of 22
    lucaluca Posts: 3,833member
    Which car garners more sales per year? Chrysler PT Cruisers or Ford F-350s? The PT Cruiser, like the iMac, is unique looking and has consumer appeal. It's meant for carrying people and groceries around town. It's just like an iMac: interesting, adequate, and fun. The F-350 is a gigantic, super powerful pickup truck designed to do one thing: work. It's not pretty, it's not that comfortable, but it gets the job done. If you're doing construction, you need a pickup. You can't get by with a PT Cruiser!



    A graphic designer can't get by with an iMac. They need the power of a PowerMac. But most people will settle for a less powerful computer because it costs less, because it's more ergonomic/easier to use, and it does everything the more powerful one does, but nicer.
  • Reply 12 of 22
    err... i dunno abou that one luca. haha. you were almost there....
  • Reply 13 of 22
    prestonpreston Posts: 219member
    My opinion on the subject is that there is no serious difference in the "power" between the consumer and pro models in terms of basic "creativity" work. Essentially, the pro line adds features like expandability, versatility, etc. Any, and I mean ANY Mac sold in the last few years will run Adobe or Macromedia's Design collection.



    Unfortunately, let's face it, Apple products are based on the model that the system should be simple. It's almost like the open-ended versatility of the basic PC is crippled in the consumer line, then resold to us at a premium in the Pro line.



    I suppose the philosophy is that if you can afford ADC displays, Maya, etc... the Pro models premium won't phase you (especially because you've crossed the barrier into business use.)



    It's late, I hope maybe that made sense



    Pres
  • Reply 14 of 22
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    [quote]Originally posted by applenut:

    <strong>consumer models may sell in higher volume but Apple makes it revenue, gross margin, and profit off the pros.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Eh? Usually the revenues are 50/50 for the consumer and pro lines, but there are better opportunities for spikes in the consumer market.



    Last quarter's numbers



    372K iMacs = $448M revenue

    141K iBooks = $180M revenue

    211K Power Macs = $383M revenue

    89K PowerBooks = $198M revenue



    And of course during the education buying season, consumer revenues and sales will go up. On per year basis, consumer Macs sell more and bring in more revenue still.



    ---



    And Sleepy Monkie, you will find very few "I wanna see XYZ" posts from me, and definitely no outrageous ones.



    [ 05-21-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
  • Reply 15 of 22
    aslanaslan Posts: 97member
    [quote]ps.

    i really do believe there are more "pro" users on the mac. simpley b/c your everyday joe just would'nt consider a mac. they are bombarded with windows users convicing them that macs are crap. it's only the more intelligent, open minded sorts, ie creative, professional designers, musicians, architects, etc. that use mac with confidence. hence, there's the TRUE market... (imo)<hr></blockquote>



    Some people just believe what they want to believe....



    So tell me, if Apple makes its moolah off of PowerUsers, why haven't they been catering to us for the last 10 years?



    PCs are faster than Macs right now in general (w.r.t. numbers and bus speeds) but they are next to useless cause people insist on using Winblows or a variant.



    People get stuff done on Macs fast or not, and they wouldn't have it any other way (for the most part...don't listen too much to the whiners around here <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> ).



    And the consumers drive the market. There may be a fair amount of crossover between "groups", but I insist on reminding you that there are still a large number of people running System 7 ( :eek: ) on 68k Macs ( <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> ). Seriously. These are the people being targeted in the new hardware/software campaign.



    My hope is that Apple continues to address the PowerUsers with their typical overly-expensive high-end machines. Right now we are shelling $$$ for schlock hardware (at least until MWNY) and it IS getting frustrating. They are so expensive cause there are so few purchased by us, the "numerous" :confused: powerusers, that they (try to) justify a large profit margin for providing a machine that just won't sell that well because of a small target audience.



    Apple just needs more great engineering hits like the Powerbook G4. That machine sold great regardless of "group" affiliation. When you get consumers to buy pro machines cause they look cool, you pull an "Apple". I would just like to see Apple pull (pick? ) more "Apple"s. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />



    Time for a new PowerMac already....



    [rant ended]
  • Reply 16 of 22
    [quote]Originally posted by Eugene:

    <strong>



    Eh? Usually the revenues are 50/50 for the consumer and pro lines, but there are better opportunities for spikes in the consumer market.



    Last quarter's numbers



    372K iMacs = $448M revenue

    141K iBooks = $180M revenue

    211K Power Macs = $383M revenue

    89K PowerBooks = $198M revenue



    And of course during the education buying season, consumer revenues and sales will go up. On per year basis, consumer Macs sell more and bring in more revenue still.



    ---



    And Sleepy Monkie, you will find very few "I wanna see XYZ" posts from me, and definitely no outrageous ones.



    [ 05-21-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</strong><hr></blockquote>



    What this revenue data does not show is profit margin. I suspect that Apple makes a lot more off each dual 1GHz sold than two LCD iMacs, but that data is obscured here...
  • Reply 17 of 22
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,132member
    Comparing PC's to Mac's is Apple and Oranges.



    PC's look tempting with their High FSB's and Throughput specs but the market moves at such a speed nowadays you will quickly find your Top of the Line PC no faster than an entry level machine 18th months.



    Contrast that to PowerMacs which can still fetch a decent price after 2 yrs provided they have the expandability that consumers want.



    So in short YES you are getting your money's worth because your Mac retains more value over it's life.



    Pro's don't complain about price unless they feel like the machine will not increase their revenue. Do you think Pro's like M3D Jack and Kidred fret over a few dollars when they can write off expenses to their company.



    Matter of fact when I hear a "Pro" complaining about price I assume he/she runs some crackerjack outfit that probably produces shoddy work. If you are Billing work to clients the Workflow is more important than total speed(within reason of course).



    Apple has done well. We know have a low cost Rackmount...they've revved the line and in 2 months you will see new PowerMac hardware that will awaken the Gear Slut in you. I'm Apple for life and all I need to do to reaffirm my preference is jump on my Mothers XP Gigahertz Gateway and realize just how Microshaft sucks.
  • Reply 18 of 22
    pbg4 dudepbg4 dude Posts: 1,611member
    [quote]Originally posted by hmurchison:

    <strong>...



    Contrast that to PowerMacs which can still fetch a decent price after 2 yrs provided they have the expandability that consumers want.



    ...</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I have to disagree with you here. I bought an original PowerBook G4-500 in Feb. 2001. How much of my original $3,499 do you think it is worth now? Maybe $1,000 to 1,200. That's a 66% price drop in a 1 1/4 years.
  • Reply 19 of 22
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,132member
    [quote]Originally posted by PBG4 Dude:

    <strong>



    I have to disagree with you here. I bought an original PowerBook G4-500 in Feb. 2001. How much of my original $3,499 do you think it is worth now? Maybe $1,000 to 1,200. That's a 66% price drop in a 1 1/4 years.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    <a href="http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&ht=1&SortProp erty=MetaEndSort&ebaytag1code=0&query=Powerbook+G4 +500" target="_blank">Ebay shows avg price $1300</a>





    Here's a popular 2001 Notebook the Dell Inspiron 8100





    <a href="http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&ht=1&SortProp erty=MetaEndSort&ebaytag1code=0&query=Dell+Inspiro n+8100" target="_blank">Dell notebook</a>



    I'd call it a draw. You paid $500 more but it's safe to say that you Powerbook G4 has kept up with the PC's selling at that time. Notebooks are a little different however...I think you'd see a much more drastic difference in Desktops.
  • Reply 20 of 22
    I'd call it a draw. You paid $500 more but it's safe to say that you Powerbook G4 has kept up with the PC's selling at that time. Notebooks are a little different however...I think you'd see a much more drastic difference in Desktops.





    $500 difference is a "draw"? damn, are you wiping your backside with $100 bills??? lol. i dunno about you, but $500 is a HUGE deal of difference.



    [ 05-21-2002: Message edited by: sleepy monkie ]</p>
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