Bush *jokes* about not finding WMD...

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  • Reply 21 of 286
    baumanbauman Posts: 1,248member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by job

    Well, abstaining might suggest a lack of confidence in our democratic process, but I don't quite think that's what people are going for when they don't vote.







    Yeah, I meant it to say something more like: "So much of America doesn't vote (due to apathy). Therefore abstaining means nothing."



    Many democratic nations have voter turnout requirements. We should do that.
  • Reply 22 of 286
    fellowshipfellowship Posts: 5,038member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by job





    Anyways, I'm not trying to change your opinion or anything. I just thought it was odd that you could get mad at Bush because of what someone else did.







    For the last time I will explain this.



    Bush has no integrity when we have allies (Pakistan) that shelter and pardon those who participate in WMD proliferation to groups / governments that are enemies to the USA.



    Yet in another White House press conference we continue the line of how the War in Iraq was needed.



    We were told by Bush about the dangers of WMD. Yet he allows Kahn to be free and we invade Iraq to remove Saddam.



    Seems not quite even-handed hence this makes me question the integrity of Bush.



    The stories just don't line up for me. Sorry.



    Fellowship
  • Reply 23 of 286
    jimmacjimmac Posts: 11,898member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by SDW2001

    You know, at this point it really doesn't matter what Bush does...the Bush haters will attack him for everything. God forbid the President shows a sense of humor about what is surely an embarrassment for him (and it is whether you think he lied or not).



    Get over it.




    You know you're right!



    Bush has made so many boo, boos it doesn't really matter any more.



    Bush is finished.



    And here it is only March!



    Well I'm sure a lot more interesting things will come out between now and November as this ball of yarn unravels.





    OUT THE DOOR IN 2004!
  • Reply 24 of 286
    jimmacjimmac Posts: 11,898member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Fellowship

    I don't hate Bush because he is conservative. I don't hate Bush because he is from Texas. I don't hate Bush because he declares he is "Christian" (true or not).



    I am Upset at Bush because what he does is not ringing true with this reasoning behind the Iraq war.



    Funny who Bush considers friends of the US and get to fly freely just after 9/11



    And funny Bush feels it is ok for Kahn to be pardoned and does nothing to put pressure on this THUG.



    Yet we focus on Iraq and create more reasons for terrorists to hate the US.



    I don't "Hate Bush" I just don't believe what he says and for good reason.



    I think on my own and you should do likewise or one day if not already we will lose our freedom to do anything about it.



    Fellowship






    Amen to that!
  • Reply 25 of 286
    fellowshipfellowship Posts: 5,038member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ShawnJ

    Tasteless.



    Self-deprecating humor is fine. In fact, it's the whole point of the address the President usually gives at the White House Correspondents Dinner. But to joke about the now defunct rationale for invading another country- to joke about the reason for sending in hundreds of thousands of troops, killing nearly 600 of them and wounding thousands, killing thousands of Iraqi civilians- to joke about that is beyond reprehensible.



    The President disagrees. (article here



    \




    I agree with you on this Shawn



    Fellowship
  • Reply 26 of 286
    x xx x Posts: 189member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Fellowship

    For the last time I will explain this.



    Bush has no integrity when we have allies (Pakistan) that shelter and pardon those who participate in WMD proliferation to groups / governments that are enemies to the USA.



    Yet in another White House press conference we continue the line of how the War in Iraq was needed.



    We were told by Bush about the dangers of WMD. Yet he allows Kahn to be free and we invade Iraq to remove Saddam.



    Seems not quite even-handed hence this makes me question the integrity of Bush.



    The stories just don't line up for me. Sorry.



    Fellowship




    The world is not black and white. You do not solve all problems the same. To sit in front of your computer and read a couple of news articles here and there and then think that you have a lucid idea to all the politics behind stage is absurbed. Pakistan and Iraq are on opposite ends of the rainbow when it comes to dealing with them.



    I'll say this one last time...



    The Iraq war was not about WMD. It was a red herring to get the people of this country and the world behind the idea of removing Saddam's regime from power. That's all! I don't think anybody in our government felt threatened by the supposed WMD that Saddam had, and I don't think Saddam would've been so stupid to have done anything to make us feel threatened had he had them.
  • Reply 27 of 286
    wrong robotwrong robot Posts: 3,907member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by X X





    I'll say this one last time...



    The Iraq war was not about WMD. It was a red herring to get the people of this country and the world behind the idea of removing Saddam's regime from power. That's all! I don't think anybody in our government felt threatened by the supposed WMD that Saddam had, and I don't think Saddam would've been so stupid to have done anything to make us feel threatened had he had them.




    then why bring WMDs into the mix at all?
  • Reply 28 of 286
    x xx x Posts: 189member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Wrong Robot

    then why bring WMDs into the mix at all?



    It was just about the only thing the people of this country would possibly accept as a valid reason to attack. After 9/11 it became pretty easy to get people in this country to worry about another big attack but with WMD. It's pretty well known that Saddam had WMD and had used them on his very own people. That makes it very easy to tie in the fears of another attack on the US and WMD.



    If you wanted to come up with a reason to overthrow Saddam, what reason would you give that you could certain would get the majority of the people behind you? I don't think our government could've been honest about it's true reasons to get rid of Saddam and have the backing of the American people and some of its allies.



    People are short-sighted. Unless they can see a threat first-hand then it's not really a threat to them. Do you think people would've been supportive of the Clinton administration to destroy all the camps in Afghanistan? I don't simply because at the time all the terrorist attacks were occurring on the other side of the world, away from the comfort of people's living rooms here. 9/11 changed that.



    Regards!
  • Reply 29 of 286
    fellowshipfellowship Posts: 5,038member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by X X

    The world is not black and white. You do not solve all problems the same. To sit in front of your computer and read a couple of news articles here and there and then think that you have a lucid idea to all the politics behind stage is absurbed. Pakistan and Iraq are on opposite ends of the rainbow when it comes to dealing with them.



    I'll say this one last time...



    The Iraq war was not about WMD. It was a red herring to get the people of this country and the world behind the idea of removing Saddam's regime from power. That's all! I don't think anybody in our government felt threatened by the supposed WMD that Saddam had, and I don't think Saddam would've been so stupid to have done anything to make us feel threatened had he had them.




    Actually there is not one thing that you state here that I disagree with.



    Fellows
  • Reply 30 of 286
    gongon Posts: 2,437member
    The real question is, isn't it perverse for a government to try to influence people's opinions, even using the people's own money and resources to do it?



    I am not interested in electing people to tell me what to do, by force or by persuasion... they are my representatives and if they do not act like it, I'm not voting for them again.
  • Reply 31 of 286
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,839member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Fellowship

    Bush has no integrity when we have allies (Pakistan) that shelter and pardon those who participate in WMD proliferation to groups / governments that are enemies to the USA.



    Holding Bush accountable for the actions of the President of Pakistan is dumb.



    Intentionally meddling in another government's decisions, that could fuel anti-US sentiment in a politically volatile and nuclear-threatened region of the world, would be even more dumb. Even AI's notorious lefties haven't called for Bush to cut ties with Pakistan over this.



    Selling weapons to enemies on this scale is an action to be handled quietly by intelligence agencies, like how Israel's Mossad seems to, not in issuing press releases from the White House.



    Of all the things to get mad at Bush for, this one doesn't make any sense.
  • Reply 32 of 286
    x xx x Posts: 189member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Fellowship

    Actually there is not one thing that you state here that disagree with.



    Fellows




    Whew! I like you Fellowship. You appeared to be getting more angry than I've seen. I think you and I are about the same when it comes to the candidates. I'm not entirely happy with everything Bush has done, and I'm not totally happy with Kerry, either. I just get tired of reading so many comments by people who vehemently dislike Bush that I tend to support him just to try and be a counter-weight.



    Regards!
  • Reply 33 of 286
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,027member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Fellowship

    For the last time I will explain this.



    Bush has no integrity when we have allies (Pakistan) that shelter and pardon those who participate in WMD proliferation to groups / governments that are enemies to the USA.



    Yet in another White House press conference we continue the line of how the War in Iraq was needed.



    We were told by Bush about the dangers of WMD. Yet he allows Kahn to be free and we invade Iraq to remove Saddam.



    Seems not quite even-handed hence this makes me question the integrity of Bush.



    The stories just don't line up for me. Sorry.



    Fellowship






    Pakistan's stance was turned almost completely around by this administration. Better to have them cooperate than not cooperate. That being said, Bush does not control Pakistan completely. He did not 'allow" anything.



    As for Iraq, you may be stunned to know there are still those that feel the war was needed. Actually, 57% of Americans think it was worth it....according to recent polls.
  • Reply 34 of 286
    fellowshipfellowship Posts: 5,038member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Frank777

    Holding Bush accountable for the actions of the President of Pakistan is dumb.



    Not really. Bush should (because of American interests) have some influence in the "punishment" of a WMD proliferator.



    Quote:



    Of all the things to get mad at Bush for, this one doesn't make any sense.




    Correction: It does not make sense to you.



    Fellows
  • Reply 35 of 286
    fellowshipfellowship Posts: 5,038member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by SDW2001





    As for Iraq, you may be stunned to know there are still those that feel the war was needed. Actually, 57% of Americans think it was worth it....according to recent polls.




    I respect that. We all have our opinions.



    Fellows
  • Reply 36 of 286
    wrong robotwrong robot Posts: 3,907member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Gon

    The real question is, isn't it perverse for a government to try to influence people's opinions, even using the people's own money and resources to do it?



    I am not interested in electing people to tell me what to do, by force or by persuasion... they are my representatives and if they do not act like it, I'm not voting for them again.




    This is more what I was getting at when I asked X_X that question. The way I see it, it's pretty low to bait and switch like that. Politicians do it all the time, people do it all the time, but you still feel cheated when someone does it to you. Well, most of the time at least. It's a dirty tactic if you ask me.



    Then when you consider the possibility that bush and administration, lied to get our support, it just makes things even worse.



    I'm still on the fence as to whether or not I think bush lied, I think it's more likely that they had just as much information if not more that saddam had no WMDs*, they just used what information that wasn't necessarily confirmed to start a war. Lying? not really, being entirely honest? not really.





    *or that he wouldn't use them if he had them, or that he had no means to use them, though he had the raw materials, or he had them but disbanded or hid them a decade ago and lost them(as absurd as that sounds, it has happened to many nations before re: things that shouldn't be misplaced) or that he used to have them, destroyed them, but still a few were left unchecked for whatever dumb reasons...etc..etc.
  • Reply 37 of 286
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,839member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Fellowship

    Not really. Bush should (because of American interests) have some influence in the "punishment" of a WMD proliferator.



    Newsflash: America does not own the world. Pakistan is a sovereign state with its own laws.



    And why are some European countries right for following public opinion and staying out of the war, but Pakistan is wrong for following its public's opinion and condemning - but not jailing - its "national hero"?



    Quote:

    Originally posted by Fellowship

    It does not make sense to you.



    Darn right.
  • Reply 38 of 286
    wrong robotwrong robot Posts: 3,907member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Frank777

    Newsflash: America does not own the world.



    Darn right.




    Wish we'd stop acting like we do \ or that we need to babysit nations that aren't democratic \
  • Reply 39 of 286
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,027member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Wrong Robot

    Wish we'd stop acting like we do \ or that we need to babysit nations that aren't democratic \



    Well that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. How exactly do we stop "acting like we do"?
  • Reply 40 of 286
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,464member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Fellowship

    I agree with you on this Shawn



    Fellowship




    Perhaps you ought to read it without the spin.



    Quote:

    THE PRESIDENT: Thank you all. Thank you. Thanks for inviting me -- finally. (Laughter.) And thank you for honoring David Bloom. It was a fantastic speech you gave for a man you loved.



    I am sorry Laura couldn't be here. And I'm sorry Secretary Rumsfeld is not here, either. The guy constantly surprises me. Do you know what Rummy's favorite TV show is? "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy." (Laughter.) My Cabinet could take some pointers from watching that show. In fact, I'm going to have the Fab Five do a make over on Ashcroft. (Laughter.)



    Anyway, it's nice to be with you. A couple of years ago when I was here, I read from my book of "Misarticalations." (Laughter.) Fortunately, my verbal phonation and electricution -- (laughter) -- have improved. So tonight I'm going to do one of my slide shows. These are actual, unstaged photos pulled from the files of the White House Photo Office. So, ladies and gentlemen, I present a White House Election-Year Album. (Applause.)



    As you know, the contest with my opponent is going to be a slugfest. I'm feeling good. (Laughter.) I'm feeling ready. (Laughter.) I'm psyching myself up for the fight. (Laughter.) I knew it was going to be a tough campaign when Karl Rove started dressing like this. (Laughter.) And this is Condi Rice, of course. Here I am trying to explain John Kerry's foreign policy. (Laughter.)



    I have to admit it really ticked me off when Democrats questioned my National Guard service in Alabama. Here's a photo proving that I was in Alabama fulfilling my duties. (Laughter.) Political campaigns always have their unexpected moments. This next photo is when I heard that Senator McCain said he was considering being Kerry's running mate. (Laughter.) The next one was taken a couple of months ago. I had just gotten word that Howard Dean had lost Iowa. (Laughter and applause.)



    In addition to campaign calls, I also spend a lot of time on the phone listening to our European allies. (Laughter.) The conversation went like this: "Hey, John, Kim Jung-il here." (Laughter.) "Just wanted to call and let you know you're my guy." (Laughter.)



    Those weapons of mass destruction have got to be somewhere. (Laughter and applause.)



    As you can tell from the look on Andy Card's face, we've become a little concerned about the Vice President lately. (Laughter.) Whenever you ask him a question, he replies, "Let's see what my little friend says." (Laughter.) But we get along well. Here I am saying, "Dick, if the Hunan Palace doesn't get lunch here in four minutes, we're going out." (Laughter.)



    Nope, no weapons over there. (Laughter and applause.) Maybe under here. (Laughter.) Oops, this photo wasn't supposed to be in here. This is the Skull and Bones secret signal. (Laughter.)



    I'm not paranoid. (Laughter.) But it was at this point in my presidency that I had a strange feeling somebody was following me. (Laughter.)



    One thing about being President is you get lots of advice. Yes, Mother. (Laughter.) Yes, Mother. (Laughter.) Mother, would you just listen to us for once. (Laughter.)



    I like this next picture a lot. It's hard to get Rumsfeld to laugh, but when he does, boy, it is worth it. (Laughter.) This photo was taken down at the ranch, and as you can tell, Barney is not very happy with me. This is the day I told him he'd been neutered. (Laughter.) And this is the day that Barney got his revenge. (Laughter.)



    Now, on long flights, the staff and I often play cards. The key to playing Poker is keeping a straight face and never letting your opponent know what you're thinking. (Laughter.) Actually, this is on the way to the G8 summit. Once I got these trading cards, it's easy to remember the names of the foreign leaders. (Laughter and applause.)



    All Presidents have dreams and aspirations of what their legacy will be. Here they are measuring me for Mt. Rushmore. (Laughter.)



    But I do have a few serious photos to show you, in closing. It's photos like these that mean the most to me. Some of our Special Forces sent me this last picture. The faces are blurred in the slide because they remain in harm's way. The photo hangs in my private study next to the Oval Office.



    To honor those who died on September the 11th, and to make a statement of their own commitment to this country's security, these Americans buried a piece of the World Trade Center in a place in Afghanistan where the al Qaeda once ran free. They wrote that they held a ceremony, which was far more emotional than they had expected. The team leader wrote a prayer and a dedication. Let me read you one sentence from that dedication.



    "We consecrate this spot as an everlasting memorial to the brave Americans who died on September the 11th, so that all who would seek to do her harm will know that America will not stand by and watch terror prevail."



    We will not stand by. The greatest honor being President is leading such men and women. We have the freedom we enjoy tonight because they protect that freedom. And may God protect them.



    Thank you very much. (Applause.)



    Nick
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