However, as I've said in another thread, the job of presidency must at all times be a reflection of the seriousness and responsibility that the position demands. Joking about the lies of WMD and the issues that have cost the lives of tens of thousands of people is simply unacceptable and really, just plain dumb, in any circumstance. I doubt any of the parents of dead servicemen, or even the living ones under daily attack, found it funny, nor the families of 10000 dead iraqis, nor anyone with a decent sense of moral consciousness...
Bush wasn't joking about the lies of WMD's...he was joking that they haven't been found yet. And he wasn't joking at the armed forces. Quite the opposite in fact, since in practically every speech the president gives he praises the sacrifice and courage they endure and this one was no exception.
You know, at this point it really doesn't matter what Bush does...the Bush haters will attack him for everything. God forbid the President shows a sense of humor about what is surely an embarrassment for him (and it is whether you think he lied or not).
Get over it.
I hope he has a sense of humor, especially being the joke that he is.
I'm not so sure the families of those who died or are still in the field would agree with him.
Well I guess Kerry needs to hire some joke writers as well.
Gee Presidential and Vice-Presidential assasination. So funny....really.... these are the jokes folks...ba-dum...dum...dumb....
Nick
OK... THAT WAS not only FUNNY but hopefully true. Dan Quayle was the best bullet proof vest a president ever had.
And nobody is saying these jokes aren't funny. I'll admit, I can picture that dumb grin on his face as he looks around the oval office for ANY WMDs, just to show the press they're SOMEWHERE.
They're in bad taste and inappropriate at a time when men and women are dieing because he has them searching for WMDs that don't exist.
As for Iraq, you may be stunned to know there are still those that feel the war was needed. Actually, 57% of Americans think it was worth it....according to recent polls. [/B]
Bush wasn't joking about the lies of WMD's...he was joking that they haven't been found yet. And he wasn't joking at the armed forces. Quite the opposite in fact, since in practically every speech the president gives he praises the sacrifice and courage they endure and this one was no exception.
The fact that you really don't seem to understand the context of my post is probably funniest of all!
we meddled in iraq, it fueled anti-US sentiment for a false claim of WMD
iraq is a sovereign state with its own laws
pakistan has WMD and gave WMD to "hostile" countries...why invade one but not the other?? why invade one and not even slap the hand of the other?? that is all fellows is asking...bushie can't answer because the answer will hurt him badly...he wanted saddam, he lied to america about it and he (well not he, but soldiers he put out on the front line) went and got him...all on the american peoples dime and the american peoples psyche...but i'm sure he sleeps soundly on big fluffy pillows as 585 american mothers cry themselves to sleep each night, nightmares each night of their child being killed so young and so far from home....
g
Well Mr Obvious, I think you have just pointed out how having the "big one" with regard to nuclear bombs dramatically changes the rules. You can do a lot more to a country before they have one than you can to a country after they have one. Think of it as arguing with your neighbor while he is holding a rake, and then arguing with him after he is holding a gun.
Gee, suddenly you weren't so forceful, you didn't treat him the same as the guy with the rake, you suddenly seemed to consider what he was saying a lot more heavily..... etc....
If anything you show why Bush and company were exactly right to do what they did. The Middle East is already a giant cluster f*ck, but at least now it isn't a cluster f*ck consolidated under a guy with nukes. Once a country gets that power, the rules simply change, which is why all these countries are attempting to work toward that.
Bush is likely "riding the back of the bear" in dealing with this. He can't condemn them while likely working on something in the background to get this taken care of.
i'm not sure why anyone would joke about the WMD situation. he may still think they'll find some, but even if they did that doens't mean you joke about it now.
some subjects are prone to humor, period. this is one of them.
The world is not black and white. You do not solve all problems the same. To sit in front of your computer and read a couple of news articles here and there and then think that you have a lucid idea to all the politics behind stage is absurbed. Pakistan and Iraq are on opposite ends of the rainbow when it comes to dealing with them.
I'll say this one last time...
The Iraq war was not about WMD. It was a red herring to get the people of this country and the world behind the idea of removing Saddam's regime from power. That's all! I don't think anybody in our government felt threatened by the supposed WMD that Saddam had, and I don't think Saddam would've been so stupid to have done anything to make us feel threatened had he had them.
Oh I get it! So the president decided we couldn't make the right decision on this so he baited us with false info to get us to go along? Then all those people died for something that was basically a lie? So really we aren't in charge of the country when we elect an official to do that job for us? So when we vote we give up that freedom? I get it.
The scary thing is I think you're basically right about how this went down! Any president who thinks he can make major life and death decisions for us by lieing to us needs to get the hell out of office right away!
You know, at this point it really doesn't matter what Bush does...the Bush haters will attack him for everything. God forbid the President shows a sense of humor about what is surely an embarrassment for him (and it is whether you think he lied or not).
If you feel this way you need to vote. If Bush was reelected I'm sure he'd have another 4 years to do more damage. And this time he isn't trying to get reelected so he might feel free to do anything.
Say you're right about Kerry ( I happen to like the man so far ) one thing's for sure. It would be nothing compared to the Bush government who doesn't have to worry about reelection.
There is no point to this thread. Pakistan would not hand over Khan even if demanded, and he still would have been pardoned.
It's like demanding the Saudi King hand over any one of his corrupt sons. It just isn't going to happen.
We can blame Bush all we want, but we've no access to any information regarding what kind of pressure was put on behind the scenes, if any. And if the whole cause is to bring to justice someone who proliferates nuclear arms, perhaps we ought to spend more time going after ex-soviets as well? Where's the pressure from people in this thread to do that?
It seems many like to feel W has the omnipotent Jedi Mind Trick like ability to get people to do his bidding, create false intelligence within and outside of the US from thin air, and single handedly conduct a four year long conspiracy to deceive and oppress his citizens, all the while trying to dominate the world. And in the same breath he's criticized for being an idiot with poor college grades, that can't eat without choking, or enunciate correctly. You can't have it both ways.
I'm by no means a Bush fan, but he can't be the root cause of every problem facing global politics today. It's too naive a viewpoint.
There is no point to this thread. Pakistan would not hand over Khan even if demanded, and he still would have been pardoned.
It's like demanding the Saudi King hand over any one of his corrupt sons. It just isn't going to happen.
We can blame Bush all we want, but we've no access to any information regarding what kind of pressure was put on behind the scenes, if any. And if the whole cause is to bring to justice someone who proliferates nuclear arms, perhaps we ought to spend more time going after ex-soviets as well? Where's the pressure from people in this thread to do that?
It seems many like to feel W has the omnipotent Jedi Mind Trick like ability to get people to do his bidding, create false intelligence within and outside of the US from thin air, and single handedly conduct a four year long conspiracy to deceive and oppress his citizens, all the while trying to dominate the world. And in the same breath he's criticized for being an idiot with poor college grades, that can't eat without choking, or enunciate correctly. You can't have it both ways.
I'm by no means a Bush fan, but he can't be the root cause of every problem facing global politics today. It's too naive a viewpoint.
Yes but like the rest of us he works for somebody. Unfortunately it isn't the people who voted him into office.
Pakistan would not hand over Khan even if demanded, and he still would have been pardoned. It's like demanding the Saudi King hand over any one of his corrupt sons. It just isn't going to happen.
No it's not. Totally different situation, for a ridiculous number of reasons.
Pakistan would not hand over Khan because the US doesn't want him to. The US wants to keep the status quo in pakistan, and that part is not at all particular to the Bush admin.
Quote:
We can blame Bush all we want, but we've no access to any information regarding what kind of pressure was put on behind the scenes, if any.
Am I reading this right? Is this confirmation that flights of Saudis left the US during the ban?
ignore if you already got a reply....
They grilled Clarke on this---he said there was a request from the SA that they "were afraid of reprisal attacks" and wanted to leave. Clarke said no and sent the request over to the FBI and they checked it out before allowing the plane to leave. Clarke also said he was fairly certain that the passenger manifest, in retrospect, didn't have anyone they wanted to "talk" to.
I find the jokes in bad taste also. There's really no way around it because the subject-matter in question is still very much a serious issue, one which lives are at stake the very moment Bush is making jokes. It's putrid.
You want to joke about economic policy or ties to lobbyists or whatever else, FINE. It's OK. You don't joke about the fact that you started a war for the wrong reasons and people are DYING over it. That's just not funny. Period.
As for Kerry vs. Bush. It's almost as bad as Gore vs. Bush but not quite IMO. I will almost certainly vote for Kerry, whatever his flaws may be. I'll tell you why: because no matter which mistakes he might make during his presidency, his very presence will earn back some of the respect for the position that Bush has lost.
He may or may not be great for the economy, but he won't be worse than Bush.
He may or may not have great foreign policies, but he won't be worse than Bush.
He may or may not help fix healthcare, but.... you get the idea.
Kerry isn't likely to do anything so badly, that I actually consider moving to British Columbia or Ontario, simply because genuinely fear what comes next.
Comments
Originally posted by MarcUK
re: transcript of Bush's speech.
...
However, as I've said in another thread, the job of presidency must at all times be a reflection of the seriousness and responsibility that the position demands. Joking about the lies of WMD and the issues that have cost the lives of tens of thousands of people is simply unacceptable and really, just plain dumb, in any circumstance. I doubt any of the parents of dead servicemen, or even the living ones under daily attack, found it funny, nor the families of 10000 dead iraqis, nor anyone with a decent sense of moral consciousness...
Bush wasn't joking about the lies of WMD's...he was joking that they haven't been found yet. And he wasn't joking at the armed forces. Quite the opposite in fact, since in practically every speech the president gives he praises the sacrifice and courage they endure and this one was no exception.
Originally posted by SDW2001
You know, at this point it really doesn't matter what Bush does...the Bush haters will attack him for everything. God forbid the President shows a sense of humor about what is surely an embarrassment for him (and it is whether you think he lied or not).
Get over it.
I hope he has a sense of humor, especially being the joke that he is.
I'm not so sure the families of those who died or are still in the field would agree with him.
Originally posted by Fellowship
And then you have This
Re: Saudi flights after 9.11
Am I reading this right? Is this confirmation that flights of Saudis left the US during the ban?
Originally posted by trumptman
Well I guess Kerry needs to hire some joke writers as well.
Gee Presidential and Vice-Presidential assasination. So funny....really.... these are the jokes folks...ba-dum...dum...dumb....
Nick
OK... THAT WAS not only FUNNY but hopefully true. Dan Quayle was the best bullet proof vest a president ever had.
And nobody is saying these jokes aren't funny. I'll admit, I can picture that dumb grin on his face as he looks around the oval office for ANY WMDs, just to show the press they're SOMEWHERE.
They're in bad taste and inappropriate at a time when men and women are dieing because he has them searching for WMDs that don't exist.
Originally posted by SDW2001
As for Iraq, you may be stunned to know there are still those that feel the war was needed. Actually, 57% of Americans think it was worth it....according to recent polls. [/B]
The stupidity is beyond amazing.
Originally posted by FaydRautha
And nobody is saying these jokes aren't funny.
The WMD jokes are not funny.
Originally posted by k squared
Bush wasn't joking about the lies of WMD's...he was joking that they haven't been found yet. And he wasn't joking at the armed forces. Quite the opposite in fact, since in practically every speech the president gives he praises the sacrifice and courage they endure and this one was no exception.
The fact that you really don't seem to understand the context of my post is probably funniest of all!
Originally posted by thegelding
we meddled in iraq, it fueled anti-US sentiment for a false claim of WMD
iraq is a sovereign state with its own laws
pakistan has WMD and gave WMD to "hostile" countries...why invade one but not the other?? why invade one and not even slap the hand of the other?? that is all fellows is asking...bushie can't answer because the answer will hurt him badly...he wanted saddam, he lied to america about it and he (well not he, but soldiers he put out on the front line) went and got him...all on the american peoples dime and the american peoples psyche...but i'm sure he sleeps soundly on big fluffy pillows as 585 american mothers cry themselves to sleep each night, nightmares each night of their child being killed so young and so far from home....
g
Well Mr Obvious, I think you have just pointed out how having the "big one" with regard to nuclear bombs dramatically changes the rules. You can do a lot more to a country before they have one than you can to a country after they have one. Think of it as arguing with your neighbor while he is holding a rake, and then arguing with him after he is holding a gun.
Gee, suddenly you weren't so forceful, you didn't treat him the same as the guy with the rake, you suddenly seemed to consider what he was saying a lot more heavily..... etc....
If anything you show why Bush and company were exactly right to do what they did. The Middle East is already a giant cluster f*ck, but at least now it isn't a cluster f*ck consolidated under a guy with nukes. Once a country gets that power, the rules simply change, which is why all these countries are attempting to work toward that.
Bush is likely "riding the back of the bear" in dealing with this. He can't condemn them while likely working on something in the background to get this taken care of.
Nick
some subjects are prone to humor, period. this is one of them.
*sigh*
Originally posted by X X
The world is not black and white. You do not solve all problems the same. To sit in front of your computer and read a couple of news articles here and there and then think that you have a lucid idea to all the politics behind stage is absurbed. Pakistan and Iraq are on opposite ends of the rainbow when it comes to dealing with them.
I'll say this one last time...
The Iraq war was not about WMD. It was a red herring to get the people of this country and the world behind the idea of removing Saddam's regime from power. That's all! I don't think anybody in our government felt threatened by the supposed WMD that Saddam had, and I don't think Saddam would've been so stupid to have done anything to make us feel threatened had he had them.
Oh I get it! So the president decided we couldn't make the right decision on this so he baited us with false info to get us to go along? Then all those people died for something that was basically a lie? So really we aren't in charge of the country when we elect an official to do that job for us? So when we vote we give up that freedom? I get it.
The scary thing is I think you're basically right about how this went down! Any president who thinks he can make major life and death decisions for us by lieing to us needs to get the hell out of office right away!
OUT THE DOOR IN 2004!
Originally posted by SDW2001
You know, at this point it really doesn't matter what Bush does...the Bush haters will attack him for everything. God forbid the President shows a sense of humor about what is surely an embarrassment for him (and it is whether you think he lied or not).
Get over it.
It'll be over in November.
Originally posted by Fellowship
Honestly they both make me sick to my stomache.
I may not vote
Fellowship
If you feel this way you need to vote. If Bush was reelected I'm sure he'd have another 4 years to do more damage. And this time he isn't trying to get reelected so he might feel free to do anything.
Say you're right about Kerry ( I happen to like the man so far ) one thing's for sure. It would be nothing compared to the Bush government who doesn't have to worry about reelection.
Originally posted by sammi jo
The stupidity is beyond amazing.
It's like demanding the Saudi King hand over any one of his corrupt sons. It just isn't going to happen.
We can blame Bush all we want, but we've no access to any information regarding what kind of pressure was put on behind the scenes, if any. And if the whole cause is to bring to justice someone who proliferates nuclear arms, perhaps we ought to spend more time going after ex-soviets as well? Where's the pressure from people in this thread to do that?
It seems many like to feel W has the omnipotent Jedi Mind Trick like ability to get people to do his bidding, create false intelligence within and outside of the US from thin air, and single handedly conduct a four year long conspiracy to deceive and oppress his citizens, all the while trying to dominate the world. And in the same breath he's criticized for being an idiot with poor college grades, that can't eat without choking, or enunciate correctly. You can't have it both ways.
I'm by no means a Bush fan, but he can't be the root cause of every problem facing global politics today. It's too naive a viewpoint.
Originally posted by rageous
There is no point to this thread. Pakistan would not hand over Khan even if demanded, and he still would have been pardoned.
It's like demanding the Saudi King hand over any one of his corrupt sons. It just isn't going to happen.
We can blame Bush all we want, but we've no access to any information regarding what kind of pressure was put on behind the scenes, if any. And if the whole cause is to bring to justice someone who proliferates nuclear arms, perhaps we ought to spend more time going after ex-soviets as well? Where's the pressure from people in this thread to do that?
It seems many like to feel W has the omnipotent Jedi Mind Trick like ability to get people to do his bidding, create false intelligence within and outside of the US from thin air, and single handedly conduct a four year long conspiracy to deceive and oppress his citizens, all the while trying to dominate the world. And in the same breath he's criticized for being an idiot with poor college grades, that can't eat without choking, or enunciate correctly. You can't have it both ways.
I'm by no means a Bush fan, but he can't be the root cause of every problem facing global politics today. It's too naive a viewpoint.
Yes but like the rest of us he works for somebody. Unfortunately it isn't the people who voted him into office.
post iraq:
"hey everybody make fun of the president for not finding wmd's!!!!!"
after president makes jokes about himself:
"wmd's are not a funny topic. how could our president say such a bad thing about himself regarding them?????"
and another one run into the ground:
"families of the victims of 9/11 blah blah blah...."
9/11 happened and the problems are being fixed--move on and dont dwell on the past.
if youre gonna make fun of the president, dont b**ch about him making fun of himself.
Originally posted by rageous
Pakistan would not hand over Khan even if demanded, and he still would have been pardoned. It's like demanding the Saudi King hand over any one of his corrupt sons. It just isn't going to happen.
No it's not. Totally different situation, for a ridiculous number of reasons.
Pakistan would not hand over Khan because the US doesn't want him to. The US wants to keep the status quo in pakistan, and that part is not at all particular to the Bush admin.
We can blame Bush all we want, but we've no access to any information regarding what kind of pressure was put on behind the scenes, if any.
Sure we do. Here's just one example:
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040308fa_fact
Just because you haven't looked for info and/or found it doesn't mean public channels aren't saturated.
Now, the current admin is to blame for letting it go on as long as it did. The admin's focus was in the wrong place.
Originally posted by giant
Re: Saudi flights after 9.11
Am I reading this right? Is this confirmation that flights of Saudis left the US during the ban?
ignore if you already got a reply....
They grilled Clarke on this---he said there was a request from the SA that they "were afraid of reprisal attacks" and wanted to leave. Clarke said no and sent the request over to the FBI and they checked it out before allowing the plane to leave. Clarke also said he was fairly certain that the passenger manifest, in retrospect, didn't have anyone they wanted to "talk" to.
You want to joke about economic policy or ties to lobbyists or whatever else, FINE. It's OK. You don't joke about the fact that you started a war for the wrong reasons and people are DYING over it. That's just not funny. Period.
As for Kerry vs. Bush. It's almost as bad as Gore vs. Bush but not quite IMO. I will almost certainly vote for Kerry, whatever his flaws may be. I'll tell you why: because no matter which mistakes he might make during his presidency, his very presence will earn back some of the respect for the position that Bush has lost.
He may or may not be great for the economy, but he won't be worse than Bush.
He may or may not have great foreign policies, but he won't be worse than Bush.
He may or may not help fix healthcare, but.... you get the idea.
Kerry isn't likely to do anything so badly, that I actually consider moving to British Columbia or Ontario, simply because genuinely fear what comes next.