Why Apple WhY! Evil ADC!

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  • Reply 21 of 49
    I'm a dual monitor user. ADC forces me to use Apple's overpriced LCD monitors or pay for an expensive adapter.



    So my choices have been greatly reduced compared to VGA or DVI, and the amount of money that I must spend has risen.



    ADC is not without its flaws either. I had a friend who was having serious problems with his mouse moving in slow-mo. Finally he figures out that it's because it's plugged into the USB ports on his monitor.



    After spending $3000 on a G5, and $700 on a monitor, he finds out that the monitor's USB ports are intermittant and basically useless. So...the sole benefit of ADC (fewer wires) is worth its cost (if you're a minimalist fanatic).





    So...if you're getting a new Mac, either pony up for the Griffins ADC VGA adapter (and use a real monitor, not some LCD lit-pixel color inaccurate paperweight) or sell your OEM card and get the PC version. (NOTE: I would recommend getting the adapter, it's a safer bet).
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  • Reply 22 of 49
    jlljll Posts: 2,713member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Luca

    ¿Qué? No comprende.



    You wrote: Then the other end splits, and you plug the USB into the USB port, Firewire into the Firewire port, and the power into a power outlet.



    The display would fry if you plugged it into a 120V (or 240V in Europe) outlet, since it can only handle 24-28V.



    That means that you need a power adapter somewhere on your drawing, and that's exactly what the ADC-DVI adapter doubles as (which is why it's so big and heavy - and expensive).
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  • Reply 23 of 49
    jlljll Posts: 2,713member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Gizzmonic

    I'm a dual monitor user. ADC forces me to use Apple's overpriced LCD monitors or pay for an expensive adapter.



    Connecting a DVI monitor to ADC only requires the right cable - it's the other way around that's expensive since you also need the power supply.





    Quote:

    Originally posted by Gizzmonic

    After spending $3000 on a G5, and $700 on a monitor, he finds out that the monitor's USB ports are intermittant and basically useless.



    That sounds wrong - I (and others at my company) have no problems with mice, tablet and keyboards attached to the monitors' USB hubs (we have a variety of monitors including Apple's three models).





    Quote:

    Originally posted by Gizzmonic So...if you're getting a new Mac, either pony up for the Griffins ADC VGA adapter (and use a real monitor, not some LCD lit-pixel color inaccurate paperweight) or sell your OEM card and get the PC version. (NOTE: I would recommend getting the adapter, it's a safer bet).



    1. Power Macs have an ADC and a DVI port.



    2. Power Macs come with a DVI-VGA adapter.



    3. Apple's Cinema displays are certainly not color inaccurate - it sounds like you haven't seen LCDs for a couple of years.
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  • Reply 24 of 49
    ps5533ps5533 Posts: 476member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by trumptman

    As mentioned in general discussion I got what I consider to be an absolute steal of a deal on a nice Quicksilver Mac.



    I have had discussions with plenty of friends lately both in real life and online about how I was just getting very tired of waiting for Apple to get their act together. Apple is like a junior high school kid. Big body, little brain, and always some real flashes of intelligence and potential.



    The Quicksilver I purchased has a Geforce2mx card. I thought I could get by with that. Turns out I can't and so I wanted to "borrow" the Radeon 8500 I have put into my wife's (formerly mine until she stole it and wouldn't give it back) Sawtooth.



    Problem, the 8500 has a DVI connector, not ADC. A check on the Apple site shows a nice $100 converter. A check at OWC.com shows the Radeon 9000 priced at over $160 with tax. The PC version of the current Radeon 9000 (Radeon 9200) is a whole $90 at my local PC club for comparison.



    The LCD is absolutely beautiful and a deal considering Apple sales them at twice the cost of anyone else. But why does Apple have to refuse to grow up in doing this!?! The monitor should have come with the DVI to ADC converter since it is already so highly priced.



    Why does Apple still have to gouge us after all these years?!? I mean I still remember the screams going out from them shipping machines with 2 megs of RAM while shipping System 7 which couldn't get by with anything less than 4 realistically. (Sort of like the machines they are shipping with 128 megs now, but of course it is 12 years later)



    Is this the first sign of aged grumpiness? Is Apple really still refusing to get their act together? Or is it that I am just getting to old for this crap?



    Nick




    hmmm yah i see your complaint but i have been reminded from this that it is apple's 2twentyeth0 year and nothing all that special has happend... why!?!?!?! i mean i just joined apple community but it will be another 5 years till another big date comes by...2009! thats a long time till i can celebrate awesome new stuff for a good reason... i want celebrtation now \
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  • Reply 25 of 49
    gizzmonicgizzmonic Posts: 511member
    Originally posted by JLL

    Connecting a DVI monitor to ADC only requires the right cable - it's the other way around that's expensive since you also need the power supply.





    Who sells "the right cable" and how much does it cost? Why doesn't Apple furnish this out of the box? It creates quite a hassle for those who have to plow through red tape in order to buy little $50 adapters. If you pay $3,000 for a computer, why shouldn't they at least have a BTO option to include such a basic adapter?



    That sounds wrong - I (and others at my company) have no problems with mice, tablet and keyboards attached to the monitors' USB hubs (we have a variety of monitors including Apple's three models).



    It sounds pretty wrong to me, too...I encouraged my friend to call Apple support, but he didn't care enough apparently. Still, this does erase one of the ADC's stated advantages.





    1. Power Macs have an ADC and a DVI port.



    2. Power Macs come with a DVI-VGA adapter.





    I don't think I ever disputed that. I'm a dual monitor user. I said that in my original post as well.



    3. Apple's Cinema displays are certainly not color inaccurate - it sounds like you haven't seen LCDs for a couple of years.




    I'm a video editor and occasionally, I do tech support on the Macs here at work. I see LCD panels from Apple's Cinema displays to Dell's cheapie 15-inchers to $10,000 projectors. And no, they have not caught up to CRTs.



    ADC doesn't have a reason to exist.
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  • Reply 26 of 49
    cubistcubist Posts: 954member
    ADC is a pain in the neck. Sure, it reduced cable clutter on the Cube... but did you know that even if you get a card with an ADC connector on it, it won't work in your Sawtooth because the motherboard doesn't have a power connector for the ADC power!



    On top of that, some ADC monitors (such as the 17" flat screen CRTs) won't work with some ADC video card/computer combinations, because there's not enough power!



    So ADC is a "standard" that (a) only works with very few Apple computers (b) only works with very few Apple video cards (c) only works with very few Apple monitors.



    Ecchhhhhhhhhhhhh! That's not my idea of "standard". And it's not my idea of "good" either.



    I think Apple recognizes that ADC was an extremely stupid idea, and the next generation of monitors won't have it.
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  • Reply 27 of 49
    jlljll Posts: 2,713member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Gizzmonic



    [Who sells "the right cable" and how much does it cost? Why doesn't Apple furnish this out of the box? It creates quite a hassle for those who have to plow through red tape in order to buy little $50 adapters. If you pay $3,000 for a computer, why shouldn't they at least have a BTO option to include such a basic adapter?




    The price is about $30.





    Quote:

    Originally posted by Gizzmonic

    I'm a video editor and occasionally, I do tech support on the Macs here at work. I see LCD panels from Apple's Cinema displays to Dell's cheapie 15-inchers to $10,000 projectors. And no, they have not caught up to CRTs.



    Have you ever tried to do color work with regards to printed materials? A calibratied Cinema display is absolutely viable (the 20" is better than the 23") for that.



    I don't know anything about video though.
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  • Reply 28 of 49
    jlljll Posts: 2,713member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by cubist

    ADC is a pain in the neck. Sure, it reduced cable clutter on the Cube... but did you know that even if you get a card with an ADC connector on it, it won't work in your Sawtooth because the motherboard doesn't have a power connector for the ADC power!



    On top of that, some ADC monitors (such as the 17" flat screen CRTs) won't work with some ADC video card/computer combinations, because there's not enough power!



    So ADC is a "standard" that (a) only works with very few Apple computers (b) only works with very few Apple video cards (c) only works with very few Apple monitors.



    Ecchhhhhhhhhhhhh! That's not my idea of "standard". And it's not my idea of "good" either.





    Whoah!! Please fast forward to 2004 here - you're talking about four year old products and the attempt to use an ADC card in a Mac introduced a year before ADC.



    Don't base your conclusions on that please



    PCI is still a standard even though you can't put a PCI card in your PM8100 :P
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  • Reply 29 of 49
    xoolxool Posts: 2,460member
    ADC is a cube-era concept.



    Yes, its minimalist and I enjoy using it with my G5, but with my other digital hub gear there's plenty of other clutter.



    Selling apple displays with one cable and many connectors for different features is likely the best of both worlds. Since the PowerBooks only have DVI ports, they already need ADC adapters. The GX towers, unlike the Cube, can handle the extra clutter from the numerous plugs. This also means many more ports can be added/removed at will. Want FireWire 800? Want to channel that headphone cable? etc.



    A simple ADC adapter cable can be used (merging the DVI+, USB, and Power feeds to ADC) for backwards compatibility with existing ADC machines and supported displays.



    When can I buy mine?
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  • Reply 30 of 49
    lucaluca Posts: 3,833member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by JLL

    Whoah!! Please fast forward to 2004 here - you're talking about four year old products and the attempt to use an ADC card in a Mac introduced a year before ADC.



    Don't base your conclusions on that please



    PCI is still a standard even though you can't put a PCI card in your PM8100 :P




    However, PCI is present on every expandable computer made for the last nine years. ADC is a standard in the way that Sony's 4-pin Firewire is a standard. Yes, a few computers use it, and it's not proprietary... but few enough computers use it that almost everyone has to get an adapter to actually make use of it. At least with Firewire, the adapters are cheap.
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  • Reply 31 of 49
    dfilerdfiler Posts: 3,420member
    Quote:

    How about a cable that splits at one end?







    I've often desired such a cable myself.



    Keep in mind that a power supply is still required. This is exactly what 3rd party adapters do. They plug into the ADC cable, provide DVI and USB connects, and contain a power supply and power cord. So basically, it's everything you describe except for being detachable from the end of the ADC cable.



    Me? I couldn't afford the Apple hardware and settled for a viewsonic LCD with an external power brick. I would have preferred an ADC cable and using the computer's internal transformer... Now that I'm making more money, my next display and graphics card will be ADC.



    I hate power bricks. What we really need is standardized low-voltage DC power for homes and businesses. Electrical codes are ill-suited to this era of numerous low power devices. Power consumption would drop dramatically if every single device didn't have its own cheaply made transformer. Electronics would also be cheaper.



    Long live ADC (or some such equivalent).
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  • Reply 32 of 49
    3.14163.1416 Posts: 120member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by cubist

    I think Apple recognizes that ADC was an extremely stupid idea, and the next generation of monitors won't have it.



    I hope you're right. ADC may be an incremental technical improvement, but the huge incompatibility issues make it not worth it. Apple needs to stick to battles that are worth fighting (e.g. OS X vs Windows) and not put unneeded roadblocks in the way.
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  • Reply 33 of 49
    stoostoo Posts: 1,490member
    Isn't 4 pin Firewire part opf the standard, but without the power lines ?
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  • Reply 34 of 49
    dfilerdfiler Posts: 3,420member
    Roadblocks? Just don't buy an Apple display if you don't want the bennefits/hassles of ADC.



    With one DVI display, just use the 'standard' DVI output. A secondary DVI display can be driven by an ADC card with a five dollar physical adapter. If you can afford multiple DVI displays, a five dollar adapter is pocket change.
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  • Reply 35 of 49
    mmmpiemmmpie Posts: 628member
    The idea behind ADC is really great. Making the whole cable process easier and tidier. Im totally for it. The implementation of ADC is flawed. How should it work?



    The ADC connector should be built around a dvi connector, like this:



    --------------- -----------

    O\\____DVI________/O \\__EXTRA__/



    The round things are the crew holes for DVI. You can plug a DVI cable right in. The extra section is for an ADC connector ( physically its one big plug, just like now, not multi head ), it holds USB, Firewire, and power.



    The problem with the power in ADC is that it is a funny voltage ( nessicitating special power supplies ), and it discourages Apple from building power supplies into their monitors. I think the only reasonable solution is to have the new connector supply 110v AC. Then the monitor still has a standard power supply internally, that you can plug into the wall if needed.



    What do you end up with, all of the benefits of ADC, and a monitor ( and computer ) that you can just use with DVI and standard wall plugs.



    I might add, that while many people say that not having a powersupply saves you money on the monitor, you are just paying for it on the computer. They use special PSes, and without a doubt cost heaps more than stuff that is more 'standard'.
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  • Reply 36 of 49
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by mmmpie

    The idea behind ADC is really great. Making the whole cable process easier and tidier. Im totally for it. The implementation of ADC is flawed. How should it work?



    The ADC connector should be built around a dvi connector, like this:



    --------------- -----------

    O\\____DVI________/O \\__EXTRA__/



    The round things are the crew holes for DVI. You can plug a DVI cable right in. The extra section is for an ADC connector ( physically its one big plug, just like now, not multi head ), it holds USB, Firewire, and power.




    So you're saying Apple should use a proprietary plug instead of a standard one in order to save a few people a few bucks?



    Quote:

    The problem with the power in ADC is that it is a funny voltage ( nessicitating special power supplies ), and it discourages Apple from building power supplies into their monitors. I think the only reasonable solution is to have the new connector supply 110v AC. Then the monitor still has a standard power supply internally, that you can plug into the wall if needed.



    Does anyone build power supplies into LCDs? Every non-Apple LCD I've ever seen used an external brick. Power supplies tend to be large, heavy and hot, and so they tend to show up as bricks or wall warts.



    Besides, where is the elegance in having ADC require a heavy-duty PS in the machine and special video cards (as it does now) while shipping the monitor power that it can't use, that requires a big, hot lump in the back of the display that no other brand of monitor has?



    Quote:

    I might add, that while many people say that not having a powersupply saves you money on the monitor, you are just paying for it on the computer. They use special PSes, and without a doubt cost heaps more than stuff that is more 'standard'.



    One heavy-duty power supply is probably cheaper than two "standard" ones - whatever that means. Power supplies are available in all kinds of configurations, up to the super-duty variety found in high-end PCs, workstations and PowerMacs. The PowerMac would have a massive PS even without ADC, just because you want your PS to have some headroom.
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  • Reply 37 of 49
    xoolxool Posts: 2,460member
    Apple can still add an "Apple LCD Power" cable that runs with the others (video, firewire, usb, audio, etc...). This plug can connect to a power out port on your tower, thus still running off the tower's power supply. An added bonus means the power doesn't have to run through special graphic cards! Standalone power bricks could also be purchased so you can run it off an outlet.



    Sounds perfect to me.
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  • Reply 38 of 49
    dfilerdfiler Posts: 3,420member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Xool

    Apple can still add an "Apple LCD Power" cable that runs with the others (video, firewire, usb, audio, etc...). This plug can connect to a power out port on your tower, thus still running off the tower's power supply. An added bonus means the power doesn't have to run through special graphic cards! Standalone power bricks could also be purchased so you can run it off an outlet.



    Sounds great... except you'll still need an external brick unless apple provides a specialized power outlet. Standard AC current cannot be used to drive an LCD display without a relatively large transformer.
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  • Reply 39 of 49
    xoolxool Posts: 2,460member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by dfiler

    Sounds great... except you'll still need an external brick unless apple provides a specialized power outlet. Standard AC current cannot be used to drive an LCD display without a relatively large transformer.



    Yes, I'm talking about a special non-110V plug. This is the same power line that is currently routed through your ADC port. A port like this could be added to the upcoming towers near the power supply.



    If your tower doesn't have one of these ports then you can use either (a) an external power brick or (b) an ADC adapter (which basically merges the USB, DVI, and Power back together again).
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  • Reply 40 of 49
    idaveidave Posts: 1,283member
    I like Luca's idea; a single cable coming from Apple's displays that splits at the end and has standard connectors, i.e. DVI, USB2, Power and Firewire. It eliminates cable clutter on your desk but uses STANDARDS.
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