NUBUS was a standard to, do you think it really helped Apple?
The reality is, with a small market share, Apple cant afford to do things that reduce its economies of scale. Things like artificially disabling DVI on consumer products, so that no one buying an iBook, eMac or iMac will even be able to consider an Apple monitor.
Apple is doing some smart things, but the sort of marketing bullshit they engage only causes them trouble.
The idea behind ADC _is_ really good. But it needs to be done in a way that doesnt alienate half their customers, and potential customers who dont use Macs at all. People dont buy Apple monitors because of ADC, they buy them inspite of it. And PC users dont bother at all.
The really cool product that Apple has is the best widescreen monitors. PC users look at them in envy, see the funky plug, and get something cheaper and easier.
The idea behind ADC _is_ really good. But it needs to be done in a way that doesnt alienate half their customers, and potential customers who dont use Macs at all. People dont buy Apple monitors because of ADC, they buy them inspite of it. And PC users dont bother at all.
The really cool product that Apple has is the best widescreen monitors. PC users look at them in envy, see the funky plug, and get something cheaper and easier.
Well said! Having just sold a 17" Studio Display with ADC I can verify that PC users were not the slightest bit interested. They liked it, but when I mentioned the ADC plug they lost all interest. Apple could sell a lot more displays if they would eliminate or modify ADC.
Well said! Having just sold a 17" Studio Display with ADC I can verify that PC users were not the slightest bit interested. They liked it, but when I mentioned the ADC plug they lost all interest. Apple could sell a lot more displays if they would eliminate or modify ADC.
Did you tell them it carried a DVI signal, or did you just let them assume it was some totally incompatible beast? I ask because there are a lot of PC users who snap up the 23", and ADC doesn't even slow them down.
Did you tell them it carried a DVI signal, or did you just let them assume it was some totally incompatible beast? I ask because there are a lot of PC users who snap up the 23", and ADC doesn't even slow them down.
When I showed them the DVIator unit with which it was connected to my PowerBook, there was an immediate frown. Most (not all) PC users assume there will be incompatabilities with anything that has an Apple logo on it so it's a hard sell to begin with. Show them a giant dongle they'll have to deal with and there's little chance. I finally sold the display to a guy who had a Cube and I kept the DVIator for my next display, hoping I won't need it if Apple changes its mind about ADC.
NUBUS was a standard to, do you think it really helped Apple?
For every failure there are several breakthroughs. Hindsight is 20/20, but if Apple never took a risk on technologies we'd all still be using serial ports and monochrome monitors. ADC is better than DVI. Blame the graphics card companies for not adding that $.50 to a card to make it more versitile.
Can anyone actually point to a location holding the standard that ADC is supposed to be. Ive heard that it had something to do with IBM, so I went looking. The closest Ive found ( and which various websites have thought was the same as ADC ) is VESA's P&D ( plug and display ), which is EVC ( extended video connector ) renamed.
ADC certainly isnt a P&D connector. It is physically different ( P&D looks like a bigger DVI plug ), and P&D has no provision for carrying power for the display. It does have firewire, and its associated power lines however.
Adding ADC ports to a board is not a 50c procedure. Adding ADC requires that the board have an additional edge next to the AGP edge to connect to power. There needs to be routing, of usb ports as well. Then, all of this needs to be tested and validated. Have you noticed that very few video card manufacturers stray from the reference design? Thats because it is really expensive to design and test your own card. Add to that the very small size of the target market ( PC users cant use it because of the extra power and usb connectors by the AGP slot - they wont go anywhere on a PC motherboard ) and you'll see that no one is interested in manufacturer special cards. Apple do, because they have to. When they developed ADC building a custom card wasnt a big deal, everyone did it. Not anymore.
I say, ADC is non standard, and is built around non standard additional card requirements ( 28v power and USB ). This has doomed it to be remain a left field technology, which will be bypassed by better systems soon. ADC as a solution for the cube's space problems was perfect, but adopting it into ongoing products was a mistake.
I say, ADC is non standard, and is built around non standard additional card requirements ( 28v power and USB ). This has doomed it to be remain a left field technology, which will be bypassed by better systems soon. ADC as a solution for the cube's space problems was perfect, but adopting it into ongoing products was a mistake.
Good post.
I'm in the market for a big new display. I hope it will be one of Apple's redesigned models, since they typically make great products. My ideal display would have its own power supply (or a power dongle) two DVI inputs and the ability to hang on a wall or stand alone in a height and swivel adjustable base. (USB and Firewire ports would be a low priority although the option would be nice.) I think I heard Gateway has such a product.
For every failure there are several breakthroughs. Hindsight is 20/20, but if Apple never took a risk on technologies we'd all still be using serial ports and monochrome monitors. ADC is better than DVI. Blame the graphics card companies for not adding that $.50 to a card to make it more versitile.
What about the additional power that has to also be drawn through the graphics card to support that monitor as well? What about routing the signals from the built in USB hub as well?
That's more than 50 cents.
As for Apple and risk, they have certainly helped move things along but mostly by tossing good solutions at existing technology. USB, DVD-R, 802.11, they were all adopted outside of Apple but were given a nice push by Apple innovation.
Comments
The reality is, with a small market share, Apple cant afford to do things that reduce its economies of scale. Things like artificially disabling DVI on consumer products, so that no one buying an iBook, eMac or iMac will even be able to consider an Apple monitor.
Apple is doing some smart things, but the sort of marketing bullshit they engage only causes them trouble.
The idea behind ADC _is_ really good. But it needs to be done in a way that doesnt alienate half their customers, and potential customers who dont use Macs at all. People dont buy Apple monitors because of ADC, they buy them inspite of it. And PC users dont bother at all.
The really cool product that Apple has is the best widescreen monitors. PC users look at them in envy, see the funky plug, and get something cheaper and easier.
Originally posted by mmmpie
The idea behind ADC _is_ really good. But it needs to be done in a way that doesnt alienate half their customers, and potential customers who dont use Macs at all. People dont buy Apple monitors because of ADC, they buy them inspite of it. And PC users dont bother at all.
The really cool product that Apple has is the best widescreen monitors. PC users look at them in envy, see the funky plug, and get something cheaper and easier.
Well said! Having just sold a 17" Studio Display with ADC I can verify that PC users were not the slightest bit interested. They liked it, but when I mentioned the ADC plug they lost all interest. Apple could sell a lot more displays if they would eliminate or modify ADC.
Originally posted by iDave
Well said! Having just sold a 17" Studio Display with ADC I can verify that PC users were not the slightest bit interested. They liked it, but when I mentioned the ADC plug they lost all interest. Apple could sell a lot more displays if they would eliminate or modify ADC.
Did you tell them it carried a DVI signal, or did you just let them assume it was some totally incompatible beast? I ask because there are a lot of PC users who snap up the 23", and ADC doesn't even slow them down.
Originally posted by Amorph
Did you tell them it carried a DVI signal, or did you just let them assume it was some totally incompatible beast? I ask because there are a lot of PC users who snap up the 23", and ADC doesn't even slow them down.
When I showed them the DVIator unit with which it was connected to my PowerBook, there was an immediate frown. Most (not all) PC users assume there will be incompatabilities with anything that has an Apple logo on it so it's a hard sell to begin with. Show them a giant dongle they'll have to deal with and there's little chance. I finally sold the display to a guy who had a Cube and I kept the DVIator for my next display, hoping I won't need it if Apple changes its mind about ADC.
Originally posted by mmmpie
NUBUS was a standard to, do you think it really helped Apple?
For every failure there are several breakthroughs. Hindsight is 20/20, but if Apple never took a risk on technologies we'd all still be using serial ports and monochrome monitors. ADC is better than DVI. Blame the graphics card companies for not adding that $.50 to a card to make it more versitile.
ADC certainly isnt a P&D connector. It is physically different ( P&D looks like a bigger DVI plug ), and P&D has no provision for carrying power for the display. It does have firewire, and its associated power lines however.
Adding ADC ports to a board is not a 50c procedure. Adding ADC requires that the board have an additional edge next to the AGP edge to connect to power. There needs to be routing, of usb ports as well. Then, all of this needs to be tested and validated. Have you noticed that very few video card manufacturers stray from the reference design? Thats because it is really expensive to design and test your own card. Add to that the very small size of the target market ( PC users cant use it because of the extra power and usb connectors by the AGP slot - they wont go anywhere on a PC motherboard ) and you'll see that no one is interested in manufacturer special cards. Apple do, because they have to. When they developed ADC building a custom card wasnt a big deal, everyone did it. Not anymore.
I say, ADC is non standard, and is built around non standard additional card requirements ( 28v power and USB ). This has doomed it to be remain a left field technology, which will be bypassed by better systems soon. ADC as a solution for the cube's space problems was perfect, but adopting it into ongoing products was a mistake.
Originally posted by mmmpie
I say, ADC is non standard, and is built around non standard additional card requirements ( 28v power and USB ). This has doomed it to be remain a left field technology, which will be bypassed by better systems soon. ADC as a solution for the cube's space problems was perfect, but adopting it into ongoing products was a mistake.
Good post.
I'm in the market for a big new display. I hope it will be one of Apple's redesigned models, since they typically make great products. My ideal display would have its own power supply (or a power dongle) two DVI inputs and the ability to hang on a wall or stand alone in a height and swivel adjustable base. (USB and Firewire ports would be a low priority although the option would be nice.) I think I heard Gateway has such a product.
Originally posted by bunge
For every failure there are several breakthroughs. Hindsight is 20/20, but if Apple never took a risk on technologies we'd all still be using serial ports and monochrome monitors. ADC is better than DVI. Blame the graphics card companies for not adding that $.50 to a card to make it more versitile.
What about the additional power that has to also be drawn through the graphics card to support that monitor as well? What about routing the signals from the built in USB hub as well?
That's more than 50 cents.
As for Apple and risk, they have certainly helped move things along but mostly by tossing good solutions at existing technology. USB, DVD-R, 802.11, they were all adopted outside of Apple but were given a nice push by Apple innovation.
Nick