I feel compelled to add to this thread, not that I can add anything of legal support or advice, but just to share my experiences in what has been a very similar experience.
I bought a Ti550 at the end of 2001 (late November/early December - can't recall the exact date) and a week or two later Apple announced the combo drive! In Australia, the upgrade was something exorbitant, like Au$600 - so I declined, and thought "tough break". (To this day I am yet to burn a CD!)
Anyway, a few months later, my pride and joy experienced an "accident" whereby the left hinge was damaged. I was beside myself, but even with AppleCare, I was told that this could not be repaired under warranty. Again, I thought tough break, and consoled myself by thinking along the lines of: "Hey, your computer is a tool, you use it, it cops a few nicks, that's normal."
Anway, over the course of the next year, the hinge really deteriorated - in fact it tore at the display shell and began to protrude through the casing. This led me to have to open the case with a "finger pinch" on the lhs just to ensure that the TiBook opened up correctly. After a while, I resorted to duct tape - which I changed every few months. Around the same time, the paint bubbles and chips began to appear on the palmrest on the rhs and around the lhs corner where the hinge had begun to jut out. On the palmrest it extended for about 5cm and was total black. The laptop was ugly, but it still worked. I resigned myself to having lost any chance of reselling this item and decided to hold onto it until it dies.
In 2003, my power adpater dies and the TiBook refuses to charge. I thought that my Hard Drive had actually died and I feared the worst. (Not having a combo drive I had never been able to back-up... I kept promising myself that my next laptop would be a combo model, so I thought if I purchased an external burner it would be redundant once I got a combo drive laptop.) Anyway, I rushed my laptop into an AppleCentre and after they got over their disbelief at the state of my baby, they said they'd need to have it in the shop for a few days (a week at the most).
When they discovered that it was my Power Supply, they called me up and the tech guy said something along the lines of "You know, your hinge is also really screwed (duh) - I might be able to replace it for you, but I will accept no responsibility if the screen does not work again after I fix it." Whilst I was tempted to have the hinge fixed, I couldn't afford the possibility of a non-working screen. So I resigned myself to just picking up the laptop and the new Power Supply. A day later he called me up to say that he had taken some photos to send to Apple Australia that highlighted the sad state of the hinge. At the same time, he managed to capture the machine in its entirety, highlighting the poor paintjob on the casing.
Now, for me, here was the good part. Apple Australia agreed to replace the hinge and also told the tech guy "you should replace that topcase as well!" I could not believe it, new Power Supply, new hinge, new screen (necessitated by the replacement of the screen shell) and a new topcase! It was like picking up a new machine!
Seven months later, though, I had to return to that Apple Centre and ask for a replacement power cable, as they provided me with a brand new Power Adapter- but not a cable, and this old one was beginning to spark (!) which was very dodgy. Why they just didn't replace the cord and supply at the same time at once, I do not know!
These days, my battery runs out in less than half an hour - so I resort to using my laptop plugged in. I didn't know that battery problems were a normal occurrence until I read alcimedes reply above. Maybe, they're covered by warranty - who knows?
Anyway, the lessons I learned are:
1) always purchase Apple Care (especially with a laptop)
2) be patient - resign yourself to some ugliness and just wait and see whether your experience is common enough to warrant an about face from Apple.
I know this isn't much consolation for you skaimauve, but I felt compelled to share my story as part of this thread.
PS - photo proof: I never took photos of this laptop before I sent it in ... now I wish that I had! My wife picked up the laptop from the Apple Centre and didn't see the tech to ask for the photos he took. I have since found out that he left the store.
When they discovered that it was my Power Supply, they called me up and the tech guy said something along the lines of "You know, your hinge is also really screwed (duh) - I might be able to replace it for you, but I will accept no responsibility if the screen does not work again after I fix it." Whilst I was tempted to have the hinge fixed, I couldn't afford the possibility of a non-working screen. So I resigned myself to just picking up the laptop and the new Power Supply.
What the hell kind of a computer tech says something like this? What an asshole. If he breaks it, it's his fault, and he takes FULL responsibility.
What the hell kind of a computer tech says something like this? What an asshole. If he breaks it, it's his fault, and he takes FULL responsibility.
I agree with you Luca - and I argued strongly with him at first. But all the while I felt as though the store had me over a barrel. They had my TiBook and I didn't. I was furious after that initial call and took a day to decide what to do. Once I said no to the "no responsibility repair offer" I consoled myself, acknowledging that I was in no worse a predicament than when I handed the computer over to them a few days ago ... so I didn't feel all that bad. \
A day after this when he called to tell me that he had sent the photos to Apple Australia and they OK'd the replacement, I was dumb-founded. I still told him that I didn't like what he had said two days prior, but at the same time I was pleased with his initative and grateful for the "win-win" outcome.
Sometimes, it's best not to shoot your mouth off straight away - no matter how tempting it may be, I guess.
Well as for the paint chipping off after a certain amount of use, this IS normal. Ask any painter, carrossier or whoever else has experience with paint on metal/wood/stone.
My Dad has an original 550MHz PowerBook G4, the paint is chipping off too, now after years of daily use. He sure as hell isn't going to sue anyone for that.
Have you ever owned metal tools that were painted red, for example...how long has that paint lasted on average?
you're reacting to my post as if I flamed you. but all I did was voice my opinion on chipped paint, which I reckon is not your issue, but many others'.
Just about everyone has a horror story. I had an iBook that was lemons. By the time they did the logic board replacement program, mine was long since ebayed for parts. Sucks to be me, but there is little to be done. A lawsuit? Nah.
Even if they changed their story, they owe you nothing. Unless you have written correspondence saying that the things were NOT covered, and now they ARE covered, you have no proof to substantiate your legal claim.
As for repairing it yourself and voiding your warrenty? Although resourcefull, it was obviously not wise.
Typically they say that bad things build character. Think about how much you've learned about business politics and quality control?
And that's where the free market kicks in - you vote with your wallet. If you choose 'no', because overall it was not worth it to you, then do so.
Heck, sue them if you want. Go for it, it's your right.
Just don't get ticked because many of us here have pointed out that we don't think you have a legal case, you'll just end up wasting more of your money, and eventually lose.
But it's your right to, if you think it'll make you feel better, or if you think you have a chance of winning.
I mean, as far as I see it, you came in here and asked if we thought you should, or had a case. You didn't like the honest answers, and you've spent all this time trying to convince us you're wrong. You're not going to, without moving forward on the suit, and winning. It's just that simple. We disagree with your legal standing, and your odds, that's all... but that's not what you came here to hear, and you're upset that we're not all rallying around you blindly. Sorry, doesn't happen that way.
But, as always, it's your right to sue if you wish, and I'm sure we'd all be appreciative to be kept appraised of the outcome.
I do not disagree with you quite the contrary and you made me think than twice about the lawsuit. Meanwhile, as a result of this discussion and well as others, the case has evolved.
For example, Mac+ just above had a different contribution. But most owners had a very bad experience. Based on these common experiences, we can launch a class-action lawsuit: there is simply a widespread problem and Apple refuses to address it.
Then move forward on the suit, if you wish. Why is it so important to convince us all that you're in the right on this? We can't judge that, so let the courts decide. They're the ones you need to convince.
Quote:
I have owned 15 Macintosh computers over the years, and none compared to that PB.
Agreed, I've had nothing but good experiences with Apple products, and that includes the 'infamous' 5300ce...
Quote:
None of the PB owners who have contacted me had it easy with Apple when it came to having the paint problem fixed. Apple never "changed their minds" on it.
The problem is more widespread that Apple it letting us think (obviously). All owners of PB had to beg to maybe get their laptop fixed.
Actually, I think that if you go back and look, that *particular* fragment was in response to the problems you had with the internals, not strictly the paint. But, that again is rather beside the point.
if you want to focus on something for a lawsuit, focus on something that really cripples the function of the part, don't pick the paint, you're not going to win with that. my input, my opinion.
I think that you *might* have a point, legally, if the looks alone were the major selling point, but the performance was also heavily handed out in the marketing.
I agree with G-News that picking what is, ultimately, a cosmetic issue, is unlikely to result in a win, and if it does, it would likely result in simply a win *on the paint issue*. You're looking for more systemic compensation, and I understand that. It'd be like a Ford Taurus run going out with bad paint jobs, and a lawsuit for that also wanting the brake issues to be handled... unlikely to succeed.
Pick a *functional* problem that was never addressed, or covered, or admitted, and run with that.
I appreciate your feedback regarding our input - I think I speak for most when I say that we understand your frustration, but in my opinion your legal issues are limited and unlikely to succeed to your satisfaction, given your decision (for whatever reasons that may have seemed correct at the time) to void the warrantee with your own repairs. Good luck though, and do keep up informed as to how it is going if you decide to move forward.
Comments
I feel compelled to add to this thread, not that I can add anything of legal support or advice, but just to share my experiences in what has been a very similar experience.
I bought a Ti550 at the end of 2001 (late November/early December - can't recall the exact date) and a week or two later Apple announced the combo drive! In Australia, the upgrade was something exorbitant, like Au$600 - so I declined, and thought "tough break". (To this day I am yet to burn a CD!)
Anyway, a few months later, my pride and joy experienced an "accident" whereby the left hinge was damaged. I was beside myself, but even with AppleCare, I was told that this could not be repaired under warranty. Again, I thought tough break, and consoled myself by thinking along the lines of: "Hey, your computer is a tool, you use it, it cops a few nicks, that's normal."
Anway, over the course of the next year, the hinge really deteriorated - in fact it tore at the display shell and began to protrude through the casing. This led me to have to open the case with a "finger pinch" on the lhs just to ensure that the TiBook opened up correctly. After a while, I resorted to duct tape - which I changed every few months. Around the same time, the paint bubbles and chips began to appear on the palmrest on the rhs and around the lhs corner where the hinge had begun to jut out. On the palmrest it extended for about 5cm and was total black. The laptop was ugly, but it still worked. I resigned myself to having lost any chance of reselling this item and decided to hold onto it until it dies.
In 2003, my power adpater dies and the TiBook refuses to charge. I thought that my Hard Drive had actually died and I feared the worst. (Not having a combo drive I had never been able to back-up... I kept promising myself that my next laptop would be a combo model, so I thought if I purchased an external burner it would be redundant once I got a combo drive laptop.) Anyway, I rushed my laptop into an AppleCentre and after they got over their disbelief at the state of my baby, they said they'd need to have it in the shop for a few days (a week at the most).
When they discovered that it was my Power Supply, they called me up and the tech guy said something along the lines of "You know, your hinge is also really screwed (duh) - I might be able to replace it for you, but I will accept no responsibility if the screen does not work again after I fix it." Whilst I was tempted to have the hinge fixed, I couldn't afford the possibility of a non-working screen. So I resigned myself to just picking up the laptop and the new Power Supply. A day later he called me up to say that he had taken some photos to send to Apple Australia that highlighted the sad state of the hinge. At the same time, he managed to capture the machine in its entirety, highlighting the poor paintjob on the casing.
Now, for me, here was the good part. Apple Australia agreed to replace the hinge and also told the tech guy "you should replace that topcase as well!" I could not believe it, new Power Supply, new hinge, new screen (necessitated by the replacement of the screen shell) and a new topcase! It was like picking up a new machine!
Seven months later, though, I had to return to that Apple Centre and ask for a replacement power cable, as they provided me with a brand new Power Adapter- but not a cable, and this old one was beginning to spark (!) which was very dodgy. Why they just didn't replace the cord and supply at the same time at once, I do not know!
These days, my battery runs out in less than half an hour - so I resort to using my laptop plugged in. I didn't know that battery problems were a normal occurrence until I read alcimedes reply above. Maybe, they're covered by warranty - who knows?
Anyway, the lessons I learned are:
1) always purchase Apple Care (especially with a laptop)
2) be patient - resign yourself to some ugliness and just wait and see whether your experience is common enough to warrant an about face from Apple.
I know this isn't much consolation for you skaimauve, but I felt compelled to share my story as part of this thread.
PS - photo proof: I never took photos of this laptop before I sent it in ... now I wish that I had! My wife picked up the laptop from the Apple Centre and didn't see the tech to ask for the photos he took. I have since found out that he left the store.
Originally posted by Mac+
When they discovered that it was my Power Supply, they called me up and the tech guy said something along the lines of "You know, your hinge is also really screwed (duh) - I might be able to replace it for you, but I will accept no responsibility if the screen does not work again after I fix it." Whilst I was tempted to have the hinge fixed, I couldn't afford the possibility of a non-working screen. So I resigned myself to just picking up the laptop and the new Power Supply.
What the hell kind of a computer tech says something like this? What an asshole. If he breaks it, it's his fault, and he takes FULL responsibility.
Originally posted by Luca
What the hell kind of a computer tech says something like this? What an asshole. If he breaks it, it's his fault, and he takes FULL responsibility.
I agree with you Luca - and I argued strongly with him at first. But all the while I felt as though the store had me over a barrel. They had my TiBook and I didn't. I was furious after that initial call and took a day to decide what to do. Once I said no to the "no responsibility repair offer" I consoled myself, acknowledging that I was in no worse a predicament than when I handed the computer over to them a few days ago ... so I didn't feel all that bad.
A day after this when he called to tell me that he had sent the photos to Apple Australia and they OK'd the replacement, I was dumb-founded. I still told him that I didn't like what he had said two days prior, but at the same time I was pleased with his initative and grateful for the "win-win" outcome.
Sometimes, it's best not to shoot your mouth off straight away - no matter how tempting it may be, I guess.
Do you really believe that you have any chance against their attorneys? You shouldn't have voided the warranty.
My Dad has an original 550MHz PowerBook G4, the paint is chipping off too, now after years of daily use. He sure as hell isn't going to sue anyone for that.
Have you ever owned metal tools that were painted red, for example...how long has that paint lasted on average?
I'd say about half a year...
/butseriously
Just about everyone has a horror story. I had an iBook that was lemons. By the time they did the logic board replacement program, mine was long since ebayed for parts. Sucks to be me, but there is little to be done. A lawsuit? Nah.
Even if they changed their story, they owe you nothing. Unless you have written correspondence saying that the things were NOT covered, and now they ARE covered, you have no proof to substantiate your legal claim.
As for repairing it yourself and voiding your warrenty? Although resourcefull, it was obviously not wise.
Typically they say that bad things build character. Think about how much you've learned about business politics and quality control?
Heck, sue them if you want. Go for it, it's your right.
Just don't get ticked because many of us here have pointed out that we don't think you have a legal case, you'll just end up wasting more of your money, and eventually lose.
But it's your right to, if you think it'll make you feel better, or if you think you have a chance of winning.
I mean, as far as I see it, you came in here and asked if we thought you should, or had a case. You didn't like the honest answers, and you've spent all this time trying to convince us you're wrong. You're not going to, without moving forward on the suit, and winning. It's just that simple. We disagree with your legal standing, and your odds, that's all... but that's not what you came here to hear, and you're upset that we're not all rallying around you blindly. Sorry, doesn't happen that way.
But, as always, it's your right to sue if you wish, and I'm sure we'd all be appreciative to be kept appraised of the outcome.
Originally posted by skaimauve
I do not disagree with you quite the contrary and you made me think than twice about the lawsuit. Meanwhile, as a result of this discussion and well as others, the case has evolved.
For example, Mac+ just above had a different contribution. But most owners had a very bad experience. Based on these common experiences, we can launch a class-action lawsuit: there is simply a widespread problem and Apple refuses to address it.
Then move forward on the suit, if you wish. Why is it so important to convince us all that you're in the right on this? We can't judge that, so let the courts decide. They're the ones you need to convince.
Quote:
I have owned 15 Macintosh computers over the years, and none compared to that PB.
Agreed, I've had nothing but good experiences with Apple products, and that includes the 'infamous' 5300ce...
Quote:
None of the PB owners who have contacted me had it easy with Apple when it came to having the paint problem fixed. Apple never "changed their minds" on it.
The problem is more widespread that Apple it letting us think (obviously). All owners of PB had to beg to maybe get their laptop fixed.
Actually, I think that if you go back and look, that *particular* fragment was in response to the problems you had with the internals, not strictly the paint. But, that again is rather beside the point.
for the powerbook not working, or for the paint falling off?
the later really only is a cosmetic issue, don't you think?
What if Dell users start sueing dell because their laptops looks like shit out of the box?
(I'm just kidding, take it with a smile)
I agree with G-News that picking what is, ultimately, a cosmetic issue, is unlikely to result in a win, and if it does, it would likely result in simply a win *on the paint issue*. You're looking for more systemic compensation, and I understand that. It'd be like a Ford Taurus run going out with bad paint jobs, and a lawsuit for that also wanting the brake issues to be handled... unlikely to succeed.
Pick a *functional* problem that was never addressed, or covered, or admitted, and run with that.
I appreciate your feedback regarding our input - I think I speak for most when I say that we understand your frustration, but in my opinion your legal issues are limited and unlikely to succeed to your satisfaction, given your decision (for whatever reasons that may have seemed correct at the time) to void the warrantee with your own repairs. Good luck though, and do keep up informed as to how it is going if you decide to move forward.