Splinemodel, I agree on exploring all options. Not sure about your opinion, but it is your right to express... That being said, I bought mine new for $8,800 total and out the door. That was a pretty good deal at the time. Since then, I have replaced brakes, tires, 1 fan belt and 1 vacuum hose. Oil gets changed religiously every 3,500 miles. Basically regular maintainance items. That's it. It passes smog with flying colors and has over 175,000 miles on it.
Fran441, I've owned many American cars. I just sold my '01 Corvette. I couldn't justify (to myself...) keeping both sportscars. You guys can also imagine the insurance bite. That '96 Nissan 300ZX is a more refined "driver's" car than the 'Vette was. The 'Vette possesed more brute power, that's all. Even comparing interior cabins. The Nissan still looks contemporary while the 'Vette's looked kinda tacky after awhile to me.
johnq, you bring up a good one... It's something all Americans have to think about and worthy of it's own lengthy thread. Many Hondas are manufactured here in the good ole USA. My CRX was...
Do you know where in Houston you're going to live yet? So much has grown in just the past five years....I commuted an hour daily this past summer to work in the medical center (but that's 'cause I live an hour away and it was cheaper to pay for gas than get a short-term lease on an apt., etc.). Metro offers excellent park & ride service if you live somewhere pretty far out of the city. You drive a short ways to the lot, and a nice bus (believe me, there is a difference) takes you to a stop where you need to be. Many are in the Med Center, but I'm sure there are lots of other plans around town. Since I'm in school here, though, I don't drive "around" that much at all....it's not worth it (and I've been kept occupied with reading until the wee hours anyway---so, I guess I don't drive around because I'm a loser really).
People *have* gotten less courteous, though -- it's noticeable. To merge onto any highway requires a short prayer that there won't be a jerk infront that decides to merge @ 30 mph or someone hanging around in the right lane, just aiming to cut you off. That said, try not to live in the Katy area...
I've only owned American cars and have been totally satisfied with them, and the service I've gotten with them. My very first vehicle was an $8000 '92 Ford Ranger which I drove for 8 years. My 2nd vehicle is a '01 Ford Explorer Sport Trac. They've always started, barring the one worn out battery, and have always run fine. Generally, American cars in the mid-90s and forward are fine. The Ford Focus is generally one of the most reliable cars out there today.
The thing that one has to really worry about these days are electrical problems. If a car has a large amount of electronic gear, like recent BMW's for example, just make sure all of the bugs have been worked out before purchase. This is one reason why cheapo sub-compact/compact cars can be, and some are, more reliable than $30+k cars. They have less that could go wrong.
What counts as an American car nowadays? The ownership of the car makers is about as clear as mud.
I wonder where how the profits are divided from the ownership of Daimler-Chrysler, Ford Motor Company, and GM - where does most of the money end up? Is it even possible for the economically skilled to find out about this?
The Civic is a very good car, and the Accord and cousin Acuras are going to cost you a lot more. Civics, Sentras, Corlollas, all the japanese makers' entry cars are good for the money.
What would be a very good idea would be to scout for cars that have been traded in after a year or 3. The value is much better because the cost is far lower by default but unless it has over 45,000 miles after 3 years, it's practically new.
And don't forget the Toyota Prius (or whatever it's called) in case you're into being highly fuel efficient. It's a good car in any case.
My experience with Austin is that it's like any other American city, slightly overrun with SUVs but not out of the norm. Will Houston be pickup and truck central though, the stereotype of Texas towns? Will your visibility in traffic be affected if you ride in the notoriously low Civic?
As for buying American, the whole issue is a gray area now, with GMs using Mitsubishi engines, Saabs using American motors, Chryslers made in Germany, BMWs made in the USA, Hondas made in Canada, Americans designing for Nissan, Fords making cars for European customers only, etc. The car companies are true multi-nationals. The "buy American" thing doesn't mean the same thing any more. It speaks more to where the top brass are from than who gets work in the factories or whose sensibility is guiding the design.
As for buying American, the whole issue is a gray area now, with GMs using Mitsubishi engines, Saabs using American motors, Chryslers made in Germany, BMWs made in the USA, Hondas made in Canada, Americans designing for Nissan, Fords making cars for European customers only, etc. The car companies are true multi-nationals. The "buy American" thing doesn't mean the same thing any more. It speaks more to where the top brass are from than who gets work in the factories or whose sensibility is guiding the design.
Just an FYI. . . stay away from Mitsu engines. . . The enthusiast community insists that they have "plastic pistons." However, the GM 3800 V6 (and the 3400) are arguably more bulletproof than Honda engines. They last just as long, and when something does wear out, there's no expensive timing belt to replace. They are low compression, bigger displacement. In the end they have good low end torque and get good mileage. Their high torque allows for a big overdrive, so if you do a lot of highway miles, your car will last forever and sip on less 87 octane gas than you'd expect.
The Ford Focus is generally one of the most reliable cars out there today.
I don't buy that. Looking at the statistics, and about every used car magazine review I've seen, Focus seems to have a really bad rust problem compared to the competition.
I have in front of me a gallup of certain qualities of Opel Astra, Toyota Corolla, Ford Focus, VW Golf and Renault Megane, between 3-5 years old. 530 owners have participated in the gallup. In cars that have been driven a lot (100,000 - 150,000km) Focus' rusting is ranked as 3 on a scale of 1 to 7, 1 being total rust, 7 being rust free. Focus loses the comparison. Second worst is Renault at 5. The rest are at 6.
I also have a fresh TÜV (the German auto research institution) statistic of major malfunctions of all cars in Germany, 1-11 years old, divided into age classes. Toyota, Mercedes, Subaru, Porsche and Mazda have a clear lead overall. Suzuki, Mitsubishi and Honda have largely good performances as well. BMW, Audi, VW, Volvo and Opel go all over the spectrum depending on model, but there are very few total flops. The bottom of the barrel in every age class is consistently filled with cars from Ford, Fiat, Renault, Citroën. The absolute worst brand in the statistic is Chrysler, though they were only represented by Voyager.
(there has to be a certain amount of the model on the street for it to be included in the statistic)
And don't forget the Toyota Prius (or whatever it's called) in case you're into being highly fuel efficient. It's a good car in any case.
I did the math. At current gas prices, ~$2/gal, the savings in gas due to higher mpg will not equal the increased cost of a hybrid (~$2k) versus the non-hybrid until about 7+ years of driving. If you get a 60 month loan, I wouldn't even bother getting the hybrid. The only reason to get a hybrid right now is as a political statement, unless of course the hybrid offers something more than increased mpg. If gas prices go to ~$5/gal, the $2k increased cost of a hybrid will be made up in much less time, about 3 years.
Quote:
Will Houston be pickup and truck central though, the stereotype of Texas towns? Will your visibility in traffic be affected if you ride in the notoriously low Civic?
Houston is a truck and SUV city. The Ford Excursion per capita in Houston is probably the highest in the country. However, I don't believe the giant SUVs and trucks affect visibility. Most of the roads are flat and straight. The biggest dangers will be unlicensed drivers and overpasses (which usually double as a speed trap or a death trap).
I don't buy that. Looking at the statistics, and about every used car magazine review I've seen, Focus seems to have a really bad rust problem compared to the competition.
True. But they've gotten good enough to be recommended by Consumer Reports for 2004.
Houston is a nightmare. The only reason I agree to move there is because it is impossible for me to say "no" to my fiancee. She will be the death of me, Dog love her.
re: electronics++
I would actually like to have a car that had a minimal amount of power-X/Y. I can hand-crank my window and move my own seat back. I have sat inside a few used cars with power this-and-that and they don't always work right. The hand-crank in my grandpa's 1954 Ford pickup works like a dream.
Gon:
The Impreza is hip and out of my price range. Good luck finding a used one, they were hot in 2001/2 and the turnover hasn't started yet.
Give me a break, guy, I've been at this for a day and a half.
FShip:
Oh I loves me the Acura line, but the Acura line flexes too much wallet for me.
kraig:
I will check out Apple Leasing just because Major told me to!
bauman:
I test drove a 2k3 Camry V6. I am used to a '93 Camry 4-cyl so I was in heaven in the V6. But I definitely don't like moving down in fuel economy, so it is likely out.
I just want some power, I want the damn thing to move.
Kenneth:
I love that box-looking Scion (didn't I say I had no style with cars)? My only qualm is that they haven't been out long, so I am not trusting their reliability just now.
You people have it all wrong. My Ranger, purchased new, has 109,000+ miles on it. I've replaced the tires twice, the brakes 3 times the battery once and hoses once in 9 years. Talk about reliable. I will never fall into that "Jap cars are the only way to go" nonsense. You want to mash the gas, get a small truck with a V6, like the Ranger or even the Mazda B4000, which is a rebadged Ranger. Same tranny, same engine, same everything except sheetmetal. I had a Toyota once. I'll never buy a Toyota again. My GF's VW is a POS, stay away.
I own two Jeep Cherokee's and everyone knows I love them to death. They are very inexpensive to own as far as an SUV goes.
But my wife owns an Accord and I would buy another in a second. We have miles 148k on ours and have only had to have a cracked radiator repaired. We changed the timing chain at 100k miles based off the advice of a few Honda loving friends who have easily gotten 200k+ out of all their Honda's.
The 4 cyl engine is profoundly peppy for its size and gets a very nice 31 mpg on the freeway. The thing still rides like a dream and ours is a 1994 which still looks absolutely great. I would recommend a Honda over just about anything in terms cars.
My advice would really to buy a used car as well. It is very hard to justify the price of a new car nowadays when you are just starting out. Even if you are going to be DINKS for a while, you can get so much further ahead if you aren't hammered with car payments for the first few years of your marriage. It allows you to get that much more ahead in terms of getting out of the rat race before you even get in. (basically the debt, must have job, must strive for raise to pay off debt, work so hard you are exhausted treat yourself to big toys with big debt race)
Also mileage isn't such a big deal even for 10 years out. There are lots of places that specialize in replacing Japanese engines or rebuilding them. They will do it for around $1100 and then you are ready to roll for quite some time.
All the vehicles I linked too are pretty good deals in my opinion. Especially that first one with only 54k miles for $8500 dollars. If you are in any sort of position where you can deal with cash and a private seller, you can save quite a bit since people start dreaming of what they can buy with the money in your hand and usually cave to the price you are offering them.
Congrats on the pending graduation and nuptuals, hope you stay out of the rat race.
True. But they've gotten good enough to be recommended by Consumer Reports for 2004.
I suppose that is a significant recommendation, yet with Ford's sort of track record, I would wait a year or two and look at the 3-yr test results. After all, reliability is something you can only measure afterwards, and can only estimate by looking at past measurement.
You people have it all wrong. My Ranger, purchased new, has 109,000+ miles on it. I've replaced the tires twice, the brakes 3 times the battery once and hoses once in 9 years. Talk about reliable. I will never fall into that "Jap cars are the only way to go" nonsense. You want to mash the gas, get a small truck with a V6, like the Ranger or even the Mazda B4000, which is a rebadged Ranger. Same tranny, same engine, same everything except sheetmetal. I had a Toyota once. I'll never buy a Toyota again. My GF's VW is a POS, stay away.
I am thinking about getting a loan from the bank and just dealing with them instead of financing through a car company. Advice on that front would be greatly appreciated.
Basically I need to go out and drive more cars. I should give those 4-cyl VTech or whatevers a chance.
Also, automatic is a must. I can drive a standard just fine but I hate messing with it. I just want to drive, not play a video game in addition to it.
I need to get more disciplined price-wise. I drove two cars today (the Camry and a Nissan Z) and after driving both of them I was working out the financials in my head.
Comments
Originally posted by Fran441
What? No one wants to buy an American car?
Where's the patriotism? :eek:
*ducks away from angry crowd*
(For the record, I own a 95 Jeep from when Chrysler used to be an American company and the latest car someone in my family purchased was from GM).
Hey, if the guy wants to buy a foreign car to get to his job that will likely be outsourced overseas before the year is out, then let him.
Simultaneously ->
Mostly ->
Hopefully he will finished paying for it before job goes bye bye.
Fran441, I've owned many American cars. I just sold my '01 Corvette. I couldn't justify (to myself...) keeping both sportscars. You guys can also imagine the insurance bite. That '96 Nissan 300ZX is a more refined "driver's" car than the 'Vette was. The 'Vette possesed more brute power, that's all. Even comparing interior cabins. The Nissan still looks contemporary while the 'Vette's looked kinda tacky after awhile to me.
johnq, you bring up a good one... It's something all Americans have to think about and worthy of it's own lengthy thread. Many Hondas are manufactured here in the good ole USA. My CRX was...
People *have* gotten less courteous, though -- it's noticeable. To merge onto any highway requires a short prayer that there won't be a jerk infront that decides to merge @ 30 mph or someone hanging around in the right lane, just aiming to cut you off. That said, try not to live in the Katy area...
The thing that one has to really worry about these days are electrical problems. If a car has a large amount of electronic gear, like recent BMW's for example, just make sure all of the bugs have been worked out before purchase. This is one reason why cheapo sub-compact/compact cars can be, and some are, more reliable than $30+k cars. They have less that could go wrong.
Originally posted by Fran441
What? No one wants to buy an American car?
What counts as an American car nowadays? The ownership of the car makers is about as clear as mud.
I wonder where how the profits are divided from the ownership of Daimler-Chrysler, Ford Motor Company, and GM - where does most of the money end up? Is it even possible for the economically skilled to find out about this?
Originally posted by Fran441
What? No one wants to buy an American car?
Where's the patriotism? :eek:
*ducks away from angry crowd*
(For the record, I own a 95 Jeep from when Chrysler used to be an American company and the latest car someone in my family purchased was from GM).
Hey! Me too!
Well, okay, it's actually a FrankenJeep '94/'95 hybrid spliced together by a Russian Mafia run chopshop in Seattle, near as I can figure.
117kmi and counting. Runs like a top.
What would be a very good idea would be to scout for cars that have been traded in after a year or 3. The value is much better because the cost is far lower by default but unless it has over 45,000 miles after 3 years, it's practically new.
And don't forget the Toyota Prius (or whatever it's called) in case you're into being highly fuel efficient. It's a good car in any case.
My experience with Austin is that it's like any other American city, slightly overrun with SUVs but not out of the norm. Will Houston be pickup and truck central though, the stereotype of Texas towns? Will your visibility in traffic be affected if you ride in the notoriously low Civic?
As for buying American, the whole issue is a gray area now, with GMs using Mitsubishi engines, Saabs using American motors, Chryslers made in Germany, BMWs made in the USA, Hondas made in Canada, Americans designing for Nissan, Fords making cars for European customers only, etc. The car companies are true multi-nationals. The "buy American" thing doesn't mean the same thing any more. It speaks more to where the top brass are from than who gets work in the factories or whose sensibility is guiding the design.
Originally posted by BuonRotto
As for buying American, the whole issue is a gray area now, with GMs using Mitsubishi engines, Saabs using American motors, Chryslers made in Germany, BMWs made in the USA, Hondas made in Canada, Americans designing for Nissan, Fords making cars for European customers only, etc. The car companies are true multi-nationals. The "buy American" thing doesn't mean the same thing any more. It speaks more to where the top brass are from than who gets work in the factories or whose sensibility is guiding the design.
Just an FYI. . . stay away from Mitsu engines. . . The enthusiast community insists that they have "plastic pistons." However, the GM 3800 V6 (and the 3400) are arguably more bulletproof than Honda engines. They last just as long, and when something does wear out, there's no expensive timing belt to replace. They are low compression, bigger displacement. In the end they have good low end torque and get good mileage. Their high torque allows for a big overdrive, so if you do a lot of highway miles, your car will last forever and sip on less 87 octane gas than you'd expect.
Originally posted by THT
The Ford Focus is generally one of the most reliable cars out there today.
I don't buy that. Looking at the statistics, and about every used car magazine review I've seen, Focus seems to have a really bad rust problem compared to the competition.
I have in front of me a gallup of certain qualities of Opel Astra, Toyota Corolla, Ford Focus, VW Golf and Renault Megane, between 3-5 years old. 530 owners have participated in the gallup. In cars that have been driven a lot (100,000 - 150,000km) Focus' rusting is ranked as 3 on a scale of 1 to 7, 1 being total rust, 7 being rust free. Focus loses the comparison. Second worst is Renault at 5. The rest are at 6.
I also have a fresh TÜV (the German auto research institution) statistic of major malfunctions of all cars in Germany, 1-11 years old, divided into age classes. Toyota, Mercedes, Subaru, Porsche and Mazda have a clear lead overall. Suzuki, Mitsubishi and Honda have largely good performances as well. BMW, Audi, VW, Volvo and Opel go all over the spectrum depending on model, but there are very few total flops. The bottom of the barrel in every age class is consistently filled with cars from Ford, Fiat, Renault, Citroën. The absolute worst brand in the statistic is Chrysler, though they were only represented by Voyager.
(there has to be a certain amount of the model on the street for it to be included in the statistic)
Originally posted by BuonRotto
And don't forget the Toyota Prius (or whatever it's called) in case you're into being highly fuel efficient. It's a good car in any case.
I did the math. At current gas prices, ~$2/gal, the savings in gas due to higher mpg will not equal the increased cost of a hybrid (~$2k) versus the non-hybrid until about 7+ years of driving. If you get a 60 month loan, I wouldn't even bother getting the hybrid.
Will Houston be pickup and truck central though, the stereotype of Texas towns? Will your visibility in traffic be affected if you ride in the notoriously low Civic?
Houston is a truck and SUV city. The Ford Excursion per capita in Houston is probably the highest in the country. However, I don't believe the giant SUVs and trucks affect visibility. Most of the roads are flat and straight. The biggest dangers will be unlicensed drivers and overpasses (which usually double as a speed trap or a death trap).
Originally posted by Gon
I don't buy that. Looking at the statistics, and about every used car magazine review I've seen, Focus seems to have a really bad rust problem compared to the competition.
True. But they've gotten good enough to be recommended by Consumer Reports for 2004.
Originally posted by THT
I did the math.
You factored in the tax deduction right for having a hybrid vehicle?
Originally posted by kraig911
You factored in the tax deduction right for having a hybrid vehicle?
No. If including the tax deduction (1 time only I believe), the time is reduced a quarter (~$500 in taxes). So 5+ years.
Houston is a nightmare. The only reason I agree to move there is because it is impossible for me to say "no" to my fiancee. She will be the death of me, Dog love her.
re: electronics++
I would actually like to have a car that had a minimal amount of power-X/Y. I can hand-crank my window and move my own seat back. I have sat inside a few used cars with power this-and-that and they don't always work right. The hand-crank in my grandpa's 1954 Ford pickup works like a dream.
Gon:
The Impreza is hip and out of my price range. Good luck finding a used one, they were hot in 2001/2 and the turnover hasn't started yet.
Give me a break, guy, I've been at this for a day and a half.
FShip:
Oh I loves me the Acura line, but the Acura line flexes too much wallet for me.
kraig:
I will check out Apple Leasing just because Major told me to!
bauman:
I test drove a 2k3 Camry V6. I am used to a '93 Camry 4-cyl so I was in heaven in the V6. But I definitely don't like moving down in fuel economy, so it is likely out.
I just want some power, I want the damn thing to move.
Kenneth:
I love that box-looking Scion (didn't I say I had no style with cars)? My only qualm is that they haven't been out long, so I am not trusting their reliability just now.
Love,
Me.
Honda 1
Honda 2
Honda 3
I own two Jeep Cherokee's and everyone knows I love them to death. They are very inexpensive to own as far as an SUV goes.
But my wife owns an Accord and I would buy another in a second. We have miles 148k on ours and have only had to have a cracked radiator repaired. We changed the timing chain at 100k miles based off the advice of a few Honda loving friends who have easily gotten 200k+ out of all their Honda's.
The 4 cyl engine is profoundly peppy for its size and gets a very nice 31 mpg on the freeway. The thing still rides like a dream and ours is a 1994 which still looks absolutely great. I would recommend a Honda over just about anything in terms cars.
My advice would really to buy a used car as well. It is very hard to justify the price of a new car nowadays when you are just starting out. Even if you are going to be DINKS for a while, you can get so much further ahead if you aren't hammered with car payments for the first few years of your marriage. It allows you to get that much more ahead in terms of getting out of the rat race before you even get in. (basically the debt, must have job, must strive for raise to pay off debt, work so hard you are exhausted treat yourself to big toys with big debt race)
Also mileage isn't such a big deal even for 10 years out. There are lots of places that specialize in replacing Japanese engines or rebuilding them. They will do it for around $1100 and then you are ready to roll for quite some time.
All the vehicles I linked too are pretty good deals in my opinion. Especially that first one with only 54k miles for $8500 dollars. If you are in any sort of position where you can deal with cash and a private seller, you can save quite a bit since people start dreaming of what they can buy with the money in your hand and usually cave to the price you are offering them.
Congrats on the pending graduation and nuptuals, hope you stay out of the rat race.
Nick
Originally posted by THT
True. But they've gotten good enough to be recommended by Consumer Reports for 2004.
I suppose that is a significant recommendation, yet with Ford's sort of track record, I would wait a year or two and look at the 3-yr test results. After all, reliability is something you can only measure afterwards, and can only estimate by looking at past measurement.
Originally posted by 17.254.3.183
You people have it all wrong. My Ranger, purchased new, has 109,000+ miles on it. I've replaced the tires twice, the brakes 3 times the battery once and hoses once in 9 years. Talk about reliable. I will never fall into that "Jap cars are the only way to go" nonsense. You want to mash the gas, get a small truck with a V6, like the Ranger or even the Mazda B4000, which is a rebadged Ranger. Same tranny, same engine, same everything except sheetmetal. I had a Toyota once. I'll never buy a Toyota again. My GF's VW is a POS, stay away.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/hasty-generalization.html
I am thinking about getting a loan from the bank and just dealing with them instead of financing through a car company. Advice on that front would be greatly appreciated.
Basically I need to go out and drive more cars. I should give those 4-cyl VTech or whatevers a chance.
Also, automatic is a must. I can drive a standard just fine but I hate messing with it. I just want to drive, not play a video game in addition to it.
I need to get more disciplined price-wise. I drove two cars today (the Camry and a Nissan Z) and after driving both of them I was working out the financials in my head.
Anyone have advice on Nissan and Mazda?