(does anybody besides me think it's grossly stupid to have firmware on add-in cards? why can't on-card software be loaded into card RAM by the driver?).
Without the firmware there would be no video at boot time. You would not be able to see the open firmware or any OS output until the video drivers were loaded. It would be great if all video cards had forth firmware but it would be more logical if Apple made their machines support the VGA BIOS of PC video cards in the same way Macs use the same RAM or hard drives. This was an optional part of the CHRP and POP reference specifications, and this is how the POP compliant Pegasos PowerPC system board tackles this problem.
Not necessarily -- the problem with 90nm process might be an all-or-nothing type of problem. If 99.9% of all the chips are bad (as in completely non-functional), but the remaining 0.1% clock to 3 GHz that still leaves Apple in a pickle.
The thrust of the article is that IBM is having yield problems at all clockspeeds, even 2GHz. The clock speeds are there, just not in the quantities that Apple requires (even for the Xserve, of which Apple would have shipped 16,000 if IBM had delivered).
Apple just confirmed this part of the report, by the way. The only reason for the delay in shipping the Xserve G5 was IBM's inability to ship the 970fx. If they aren't even getting Xserve quantities at 2GHz, they aren't getting jack at higher frequencies either.
Apple expects IBM to have ramped up sufficient production to meet Apple's projected demand (note the CYA) before the end of the next quarter.
Before the end of next quarter. I wonder what that is supposed to mean exactly. You never know anymore. Does that mean all unannounced products will be shipping, Current non shipped Xserves will be out the door, but nothing else will be ready. No matter how I look at it it's not a good thing to hear when you gave Apple a WWDC dead line for a 3GHz 3D machine. I highly doubt they'll make that. I might as well transfer my ZBrush, Maya, and the rest of my licenses to the PC now, and get a jump on things. What a drag.
What I know of the system controllers, they are the same, however, the motherboards are layed out differently. the controller support both memory modes, single and dual channel. It was a versatility designed into the controller to allow it to be used in various machines. The motherboard on the low-end machine is so small as to suggest that it will be laid out in a smaller machine.
What about the 750VX (G3+Altivec 1.8GHz 400MHz DDR) in the next iMac and iBook? This chip was supposed to be ready Q3. (We are in Apple's fiscal Q3 I think ??)
Well, this chip never materialized, and I seriously doubt it ever will. The performance would most likely be much worse than the 74xx, so it would make no sense to use it anywhere.
Well, this chip never materialized, and I seriously doubt it ever will. The performance would most likely be much worse than the 74xx, so it would make no sense to use it anywhere.
I expect the iBook G4 to get it as soon as it reaches those levels. (1.8 Ghz)
I expect the iBook G4 to get it as soon as it reaches those levels. (1.8 Ghz)
Not if the Powerbook G5 is at, lets say, 1.6 GHz. Even though AMD, and now Intel, have tried to kill the MHz-myth non-computer-people tend to think more MHz is better.
didn't IBM get G5s up to 2.4Ghz on the 0.13 micron process? I swear I read this somewhere. If they can do this then I'd doubt they would have trouble clocking fxs at 3Ghz. Unless the smaller process causes problems to processors, like it has done with the prescot.
Well, in IBM's defense, I guess it is difficult to go directly from a 0.13µm SOI process to a 0.09µm SSOI process.
Reducing the die size and implement strained silicon on insulator is quite a leap. I'm betting the problem(s) are well on the way to be resolved. Then a 3.0GHz version will be on the way. They may still meet Mr. Jobs predictions.
Before the end of next quarter. I wonder what that is supposed to mean exactly. You never know anymore. Does that mean all unannounced products will be shipping, Current non shipped Xserves will be out the door, but nothing else will be ready. No matter how I look at it it's not a good thing to hear when you gave Apple a WWDC dead line for a 3GHz 3D machine. I highly doubt they'll make that. I might as well transfer my ZBrush, Maya, and the rest of my licenses to the PC now, and get a jump on things. What a drag.
Heh, that's a bit drastic, I think. Even if they miss their self-imposed deadline (which is ship by end of summer, by the way) they aren't that far behind the PC world -- Intel has been having similar issues and AMD is taking 90 nm slowly.
The conference said "this quarter" not, "by the end of this quarter". Plus the Xserve G5 is now shipping. That says to me that the problem is solved and it is now a matter of catching up with Apple's demand. Over on Ars somebody posted a rumour that the problem IBM had was that chips would fail (regardless of speed) after operating for a while due to a chemical breakdown issue. If true this would explain the lack of an Apple contingency plan, but it also means once the problem is solved then it is solved and yields will jump from zero to as-expected. And that could include the immediate availability of 3 GHz chips.
Not if the Powerbook G5 is at, lets say, 1.6 GHz. Even though AMD, and now Intel, have tried to kill the MHz-myth non-computer-people tend to think more MHz is better.
Well.... I didnt say anything about the Powerbook...
Well.... I didnt say anything about the Powerbook...
But if the iBook G4 is at 1.8 GHz and the Powerbook G5 is at 1.6 Ghz (just picking a number...) more energy will be needed to convince an non-expert that he should buy a Powerbook instead of an iBook. People still tend to think "more MHz is better"...
I have it under good authority that Apple will be updating most of their product lines at or before the WWDC.
Towers will be first with the introduction for the first time into the lineup, 90 nm 970FX's. Speeds are widely spaced at 2.0 GHz, 2.5 GHz, and 3.0 GHz. The last specimens I saw were all dual processors but this is something that may change. They also had a wider range of ratios, spanning integer and half integer rations between 2 and 6.Their motherboards are different, as they have a new main controller. the new controller has support for the DDR-2 SDRAM running at speeds of 266MHz. This translates to a 533 MHz part. One change will be that they will no longer need to be added in pairs on the low end motherboard. the high end motherboard will support dual channel memory however.
Of more drastic importance is the PCI-Express architecture that will eliminate AGP from the board. Most systems I saw had ATI Radeon 9800 chipset on a PCI-Express card, but they (ATI) will not ship a PCI-Express version of the 9800. I believe the 9900 will be the first to use PCI-Express as the connection method.
Both limited supply of DDR-2 RAM and the PCI-Express parts from ATI and Nvidea are believed to be responsible for the delays in the PowerMacs.
PowerBooks are expected to be updated to the G5 at WWDC in June using the 970FXe, a lower power version of the 970FX. Speeds will be 1.5 GHz and 2.0 GHz using an advanced form of variable speed control that can throttle the CPU to one fourth it's rated speed one moment and run up to full speed a moment later. It can do this in 50 x (the ratio) MHz increments. The system controller is a collaboration between ATI and Apple. It contains a 9800 core with 64 MB of VRAM (with pads on the board to support an extra 64 MB), a DDR-1 memory controller, and a HT controller to a secondary controller with the rest of the i/o. The motherboard has 512 MB of system RAM soldered on with 2 slots open. I have only seen 15" & 17" screens in plastic laptop cases meant to conceal it's design or dimensions.
iMacs & iBooks may be updated as soon as in the next few weeks. They are to be updated with 7457 and 7447 processors in the range of 1 GHz and 1.25 GHz on the iBook and 1.25 GHz and 1.5GHz for the iMac. The iMac is in generic tower casing, suggesting a change in enclosure.
Comments
Originally posted by cuneglasus
And do you think this comes from a "very good authority"?
Please,Its just another wild rumor started by someone with more time on his hands than is healthy for him.
Or her.
But it sounds good to me!
Originally posted by cubist
(does anybody besides me think it's grossly stupid to have firmware on add-in cards? why can't on-card software be loaded into card RAM by the driver?).
Without the firmware there would be no video at boot time. You would not be able to see the open firmware or any OS output until the video drivers were loaded. It would be great if all video cards had forth firmware but it would be more logical if Apple made their machines support the VGA BIOS of PC video cards in the same way Macs use the same RAM or hard drives. This was an optional part of the CHRP and POP reference specifications, and this is how the POP compliant Pegasos PowerPC system board tackles this problem.
Originally posted by bratling
secondly, aren't IBM having difficulty building a 2 GHz G5? that kind of shoots down the 2/2.5/3 idea.
Not necessarily -- the problem with 90nm process might be an all-or-nothing type of problem. If 99.9% of all the chips are bad (as in completely non-functional), but the remaining 0.1% clock to 3 GHz that still leaves Apple in a pickle.
Originally posted by bratling
question: who or what is "very good authority"? (macosrumors and spymac don't count.)
secondly, aren't IBM having difficulty building a 2 GHz G5? that kind of shoots down the 2/2.5/3 idea.
just sayin'.
The thrust of the article is that IBM is having yield problems at all clockspeeds, even 2GHz. The clock speeds are there, just not in the quantities that Apple requires (even for the Xserve, of which Apple would have shipped 16,000 if IBM had delivered).
Apple just confirmed this part of the report, by the way. The only reason for the delay in shipping the Xserve G5 was IBM's inability to ship the 970fx. If they aren't even getting Xserve quantities at 2GHz, they aren't getting jack at higher frequencies either.
Apple expects IBM to have ramped up sufficient production to meet Apple's projected demand (note the CYA) before the end of the next quarter.
Originally posted by SPF Jeff
Greetings again,
What I know of the system controllers, they are the same, however, the motherboards are layed out differently. the controller support both memory modes, single and dual channel. It was a versatility designed into the controller to allow it to be used in various machines. The motherboard on the low-end machine is so small as to suggest that it will be laid out in a smaller machine.
quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't get this part. Do you mean the system controller has a GPU core?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, that is in fact the case.
I'd be willing to bet it was made smaller so they could make room for an aditional optical drive.
Originally posted by WildDude92
What about the 750VX (G3+Altivec 1.8GHz 400MHz DDR) in the next iMac and iBook? This chip was supposed to be ready Q3. (We are in Apple's fiscal Q3 I think ??)
Well, this chip never materialized, and I seriously doubt it ever will. The performance would most likely be much worse than the 74xx, so it would make no sense to use it anywhere.
Originally posted by Smircle
Well, this chip never materialized, and I seriously doubt it ever will. The performance would most likely be much worse than the 74xx, so it would make no sense to use it anywhere.
I expect the iBook G4 to get it as soon as it reaches those levels. (1.8 Ghz)
Maybe the iMac will get it first...?
Originally posted by T'hain Esh Kelch
I expect the iBook G4 to get it as soon as it reaches those levels. (1.8 Ghz)
Not if the Powerbook G5 is at, lets say, 1.6 GHz. Even though AMD, and now Intel, have tried to kill the MHz-myth non-computer-people tend to think more MHz is better.
Reducing the die size and implement strained silicon on insulator is quite a leap. I'm betting the problem(s) are well on the way to be resolved. Then a 3.0GHz version will be on the way. They may still meet Mr. Jobs predictions.
Originally posted by onlooker
Before the end of next quarter. I wonder what that is supposed to mean exactly. You never know anymore. Does that mean all unannounced products will be shipping, Current non shipped Xserves will be out the door, but nothing else will be ready. No matter how I look at it it's not a good thing to hear when you gave Apple a WWDC dead line for a 3GHz 3D machine. I highly doubt they'll make that. I might as well transfer my ZBrush, Maya, and the rest of my licenses to the PC now, and get a jump on things. What a drag.
Heh, that's a bit drastic, I think. Even if they miss their self-imposed deadline (which is ship by end of summer, by the way) they aren't that far behind the PC world -- Intel has been having similar issues and AMD is taking 90 nm slowly.
The conference said "this quarter" not, "by the end of this quarter". Plus the Xserve G5 is now shipping. That says to me that the problem is solved and it is now a matter of catching up with Apple's demand. Over on Ars somebody posted a rumour that the problem IBM had was that chips would fail (regardless of speed) after operating for a while due to a chemical breakdown issue. If true this would explain the lack of an Apple contingency plan, but it also means once the problem is solved then it is solved and yields will jump from zero to as-expected. And that could include the immediate availability of 3 GHz chips.
Originally posted by sls
Not if the Powerbook G5 is at, lets say, 1.6 GHz. Even though AMD, and now Intel, have tried to kill the MHz-myth non-computer-people tend to think more MHz is better.
Well.... I didnt say anything about the Powerbook...
Originally posted by T'hain Esh Kelch
Well.... I didnt say anything about the Powerbook...
But if the iBook G4 is at 1.8 GHz and the Powerbook G5 is at 1.6 Ghz (just picking a number...) more energy will be needed to convince an non-expert that he should buy a Powerbook instead of an iBook. People still tend to think "more MHz is better"...
Originally posted by SPF Jeff
I have it under good authority that Apple will be updating most of their product lines at or before the WWDC.
Towers will be first with the introduction for the first time into the lineup, 90 nm 970FX's. Speeds are widely spaced at 2.0 GHz, 2.5 GHz, and 3.0 GHz. The last specimens I saw were all dual processors but this is something that may change. They also had a wider range of ratios, spanning integer and half integer rations between 2 and 6.Their motherboards are different, as they have a new main controller. the new controller has support for the DDR-2 SDRAM running at speeds of 266MHz. This translates to a 533 MHz part. One change will be that they will no longer need to be added in pairs on the low end motherboard. the high end motherboard will support dual channel memory however.
Of more drastic importance is the PCI-Express architecture that will eliminate AGP from the board. Most systems I saw had ATI Radeon 9800 chipset on a PCI-Express card, but they (ATI) will not ship a PCI-Express version of the 9800. I believe the 9900 will be the first to use PCI-Express as the connection method.
Both limited supply of DDR-2 RAM and the PCI-Express parts from ATI and Nvidea are believed to be responsible for the delays in the PowerMacs.
PowerBooks are expected to be updated to the G5 at WWDC in June using the 970FXe, a lower power version of the 970FX. Speeds will be 1.5 GHz and 2.0 GHz using an advanced form of variable speed control that can throttle the CPU to one fourth it's rated speed one moment and run up to full speed a moment later. It can do this in 50 x (the ratio) MHz increments. The system controller is a collaboration between ATI and Apple. It contains a 9800 core with 64 MB of VRAM (with pads on the board to support an extra 64 MB), a DDR-1 memory controller, and a HT controller to a secondary controller with the rest of the i/o. The motherboard has 512 MB of system RAM soldered on with 2 slots open. I have only seen 15" & 17" screens in plastic laptop cases meant to conceal it's design or dimensions.
iMacs & iBooks may be updated as soon as in the next few weeks. They are to be updated with 7457 and 7447 processors in the range of 1 GHz and 1.25 GHz on the iBook and 1.25 GHz and 1.5GHz for the iMac. The iMac is in generic tower casing, suggesting a change in enclosure.
Another AppleInsider BS thread bits the dust!