the muslim arabs can't be anti-semitic as they are semites themselves.
Yes, Israel helped the pre-Hamas-organization at the time of its foundation until it found out that the pre-Hamas-organization not only secretly cached more and more weapons but also taught in many mosques and schools that they finance, that the final goal in the conflict with Israel is not only to free the occupied areas but Israel in the whole, which means the dissolution of Israel and the return of the palestinians to the ares that now form Israel.
Well now it's too late to defeat Hamas, as Hamas stands for the whole Gaza-stripe as well as half of the westbank, they have millions of members and followers, and are actually more powerful than Arafats organization.
The Israel/palestinian-conflict has become a real war between Hamas and Israel, which is being fought in the Gaza-stripe, and which has lost Israel so many soldiers and has cost them so much that the army of Israel has pressed Sharon to leave the Gaza-stripe and to relocate the 7500 settlers there to the safer westbank.
Well now it's too late to defeat Hamas, as Hamas stands for the whole Gaza-stripe as well as half of the westbank, they have millions of members and followers, and are actually more powerful than Arafats organization.
The Israel/palestinian-conflict has become a real war between Hamas and Israel, which is being fought in the Gaza-stripe, and which has lost Israel so many soldiers and has cost them so much that the army of Israel has pressed Sharon to leave the Gaza-stripe and to relocate the 7500 settlers there to the safer westbank.
Nightcrawler
Some of what you post is right, and some is not. Saying that Hamas is stronger then Fatha is a strech. But they are serious rivals indeed.
Isreal is not pulling out from Gaza due to pressure from the Army. They have not lost that many soldiers. This is a larger scheme of Sharon. Best described as taking one step back in order to take two forward.
Gaza will still be surrounded, with no borders, ports or airfields. Think of it as a large detention center. Israel controls everything that is going in and out, they can shut of the power supply at will, and industrial areas solely for palestinian workers have been contructed just outside the border-crossings. These are the only places palestinians from can attack israel. Except for fireing quassam rockets.
The settlers will probably be moved to the Negev desert, where the US will pay for their resettlement.
All in all Gaza will be more or less reminiscent of a South African Bantustan.
Then there is Sharons Plan for the West Bank. it is simmilar. By keeping the four largest settlements and building the wall, The west bank will in practice be cut up in pieces like a pastrami sandwich. (Sharon has used that exact term).
We will have the three areas Tulkarem/Nablus, Ramallah, and Betlehem/Hebron. Each close to completely separated and each of them not much bigger than Gaza. Hebron and Betlehem might even be further divided.
In the end we have four or five isolated enclaves. South Africa had ten. They will cover 12% of Israel/Palestines total land. In South Africa they coverd 14%. The population of these "palestinian homelands", will be exclusively palestinian, and soon exclusively muslim, as the christian palestinans move abroad.
BTW: Israel and Taiwan were the only nations to ever establish "international relations" with the Bantustans.
you are right that is Sharon's plan, but it won't work out for long. That is one of the reason why the Oslo and Camp-David-pacts weren't accepted by the palestinians, because both plans as well as the unilateral one of Sharon included the division of the palestinian state.
Scott,
you must be the one who is joking by quoting a dictionary as proof. The palestinians are surely more semitic as the israelites, but that doesn't really matter, because if Israel was a christian state that was created, and millions of christians immigrated into arabic areas and drove out the palestinians of their land, occupied even the areas they took refuge and opressed them, the palestinians would fight the christians in Israel and not jews.
Oh God you gotta be kidding? It's almost like holocaust denial. From the Oxford English Dictionary ...
anti-Semitism
Theory, action, or practice directed against the Jews. Hence anti-Semite, one who is hostile or opposed to the Jews; anti-Semitic a.
Holocaust Denial? What pure BS.
From Dictionary.com:
Semite:
1.\tA member of a group of Semitic-speaking peoples of the Near East and northern Africa, including the Arabs, Arameans, Babylonians, Carthaginians, Ethiopians, Hebrews, and Phoenicians.
2.\tA Jew.
3.\tBible. A descendant of Shem.
Both Jews and arabs are semitic peoples.
What is this thing you have about Israel and the Jewish people (and Israel's politics) being oh so right and oh so moral at every turn? Are you one of those (possibly) miilions of people who are so sensitive to political correctness that you find it impossible to criticize Israel on account of being emotionally blackmailed due to the ghastly events that happened in WW2? Israel still plays this ace card. Their case is a parallel to someone who was violently abused by an evil relative as a child, and then on maturity, turns that violence on someone else, but on a national scale.
Like it or now, Israel's PM Sharon is a terrorist and a war criminal who has far more innocent blood on his hands than Yasser Arafat or any member of Hamas, Hezbollah or the PLO. If international rogues could be split into divisions, the first divison would include people like Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler, the Hutu leader in Rwanda, Kissinger, Suharto, Idi Amin etc. Candidates for the second disivion could include Pinochet, Saddam Hussein, Galtieri of Argentina, Sharon, Islam Karimov of Uzbekistan etc etc. Then theres the small fry like bin Laden etc. (I omitted one notorious 2nd division figure, for flamebait reasons). Is it not sad how many of these maniacs are/were supported by or allied to the US? It just goes to show either how divorced from the American people successive US administrations are, or how unaware the US peole are in regard to the brutal nature of many allied governments.
Comments
Originally posted by Scott
I think the anti-Israel (ooops I mean anti-Semitic) arab muslim world helped to make Hamas what it is today.
Well those of you in the Western World that hate "sand-niggers" don't help either.
the muslim arabs can't be anti-semitic as they are semites themselves.
Yes, Israel helped the pre-Hamas-organization at the time of its foundation until it found out that the pre-Hamas-organization not only secretly cached more and more weapons but also taught in many mosques and schools that they finance, that the final goal in the conflict with Israel is not only to free the occupied areas but Israel in the whole, which means the dissolution of Israel and the return of the palestinians to the ares that now form Israel.
Well now it's too late to defeat Hamas, as Hamas stands for the whole Gaza-stripe as well as half of the westbank, they have millions of members and followers, and are actually more powerful than Arafats organization.
The Israel/palestinian-conflict has become a real war between Hamas and Israel, which is being fought in the Gaza-stripe, and which has lost Israel so many soldiers and has cost them so much that the army of Israel has pressed Sharon to leave the Gaza-stripe and to relocate the 7500 settlers there to the safer westbank.
Nightcrawler
Originally posted by Nightcrawler
Well now it's too late to defeat Hamas, as Hamas stands for the whole Gaza-stripe as well as half of the westbank, they have millions of members and followers, and are actually more powerful than Arafats organization.
The Israel/palestinian-conflict has become a real war between Hamas and Israel, which is being fought in the Gaza-stripe, and which has lost Israel so many soldiers and has cost them so much that the army of Israel has pressed Sharon to leave the Gaza-stripe and to relocate the 7500 settlers there to the safer westbank.
Nightcrawler
Some of what you post is right, and some is not. Saying that Hamas is stronger then Fatha is a strech. But they are serious rivals indeed.
Isreal is not pulling out from Gaza due to pressure from the Army. They have not lost that many soldiers. This is a larger scheme of Sharon. Best described as taking one step back in order to take two forward.
Gaza will still be surrounded, with no borders, ports or airfields. Think of it as a large detention center. Israel controls everything that is going in and out, they can shut of the power supply at will, and industrial areas solely for palestinian workers have been contructed just outside the border-crossings. These are the only places palestinians from can attack israel. Except for fireing quassam rockets.
The settlers will probably be moved to the Negev desert, where the US will pay for their resettlement.
All in all Gaza will be more or less reminiscent of a South African Bantustan.
Then there is Sharons Plan for the West Bank. it is simmilar. By keeping the four largest settlements and building the wall, The west bank will in practice be cut up in pieces like a pastrami sandwich. (Sharon has used that exact term).
We will have the three areas Tulkarem/Nablus, Ramallah, and Betlehem/Hebron. Each close to completely separated and each of them not much bigger than Gaza. Hebron and Betlehem might even be further divided.
In the end we have four or five isolated enclaves. South Africa had ten. They will cover 12% of Israel/Palestines total land. In South Africa they coverd 14%. The population of these "palestinian homelands", will be exclusively palestinian, and soon exclusively muslim, as the christian palestinans move abroad.
BTW: Israel and Taiwan were the only nations to ever establish "international relations" with the Bantustans.
Originally posted by Nightcrawler
Scott,
the muslim arabs can't be anti-semitic as they are semites themselves.
...
Nightcrawler
Oh God you gotta be kidding? It's almost like holocaust denial. From the Oxford English Dictionary ...
anti-Semitism
Theory, action, or practice directed against the Jews. Hence anti-Semite, one who is hostile or opposed to the Jews; anti-Semitic a.
you are right that is Sharon's plan, but it won't work out for long. That is one of the reason why the Oslo and Camp-David-pacts weren't accepted by the palestinians, because both plans as well as the unilateral one of Sharon included the division of the palestinian state.
Scott,
you must be the one who is joking by quoting a dictionary as proof. The palestinians are surely more semitic as the israelites, but that doesn't really matter, because if Israel was a christian state that was created, and millions of christians immigrated into arabic areas and drove out the palestinians of their land, occupied even the areas they took refuge and opressed them, the palestinians would fight the christians in Israel and not jews.
So what you are implying has no point at all.
Nightcrawler
Originally posted by Scott
Oh God you gotta be kidding? It's almost like holocaust denial. From the Oxford English Dictionary ...
anti-Semitism
Theory, action, or practice directed against the Jews. Hence anti-Semite, one who is hostile or opposed to the Jews; anti-Semitic a.
Holocaust Denial? What pure BS.
From Dictionary.com:
Semite:
1.\tA member of a group of Semitic-speaking peoples of the Near East and northern Africa, including the Arabs, Arameans, Babylonians, Carthaginians, Ethiopians, Hebrews, and Phoenicians.
2.\tA Jew.
3.\tBible. A descendant of Shem.
Both Jews and arabs are semitic peoples.
What is this thing you have about Israel and the Jewish people (and Israel's politics) being oh so right and oh so moral at every turn? Are you one of those (possibly) miilions of people who are so sensitive to political correctness that you find it impossible to criticize Israel on account of being emotionally blackmailed due to the ghastly events that happened in WW2? Israel still plays this ace card. Their case is a parallel to someone who was violently abused by an evil relative as a child, and then on maturity, turns that violence on someone else, but on a national scale.
Like it or now, Israel's PM Sharon is a terrorist and a war criminal who has far more innocent blood on his hands than Yasser Arafat or any member of Hamas, Hezbollah or the PLO. If international rogues could be split into divisions, the first divison would include people like Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler, the Hutu leader in Rwanda, Kissinger, Suharto, Idi Amin etc. Candidates for the second disivion could include Pinochet, Saddam Hussein, Galtieri of Argentina, Sharon, Islam Karimov of Uzbekistan etc etc. Then theres the small fry like bin Laden etc. (I omitted one notorious 2nd division figure, for flamebait reasons). Is it not sad how many of these maniacs are/were supported by or allied to the US? It just goes to show either how divorced from the American people successive US administrations are, or how unaware the US peole are in regard to the brutal nature of many allied governments.
I'm more than surprised that there are americans who are not caught in the propaganda of US/Israel. It reminds me a bit of Naomi Chomski.
Thumbs up from me.
Nightcrawler
Originally posted by Scott
Oh God you gotta be kidding?
As usual Scott, you're completely wrong.
Originally posted by bunge
As usual Scott, you're completely wrong.
If I'm wrong then so is the Oxford English Dictionary.
Originally posted by Scott
If I'm wrong then so is the Oxford English Dictionary.
Originally posted by segovius
Are the Arabs Semitic or not ?