Before that, all we had were those dinky station wagons from the '70s. Lots of space, but so uncool! So Brady Bunch!
Govenor Schwarzenegger was elected promoting the big man, big truck mentality! ME FIRST! That's what driving on the highways and biways of this great country is all about. Never once glancing away from the direction you have pointed your vehicle to care about the other guy.
The Second Amendment to the United States Constitution:
"A well lubricated Vehicle, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear SUVs, shall not be infringed."
Before that, all we had were those dinky station wagons from the '70s. Lots of space, but so uncool! So Brady Bunch!
Govenor Schwarzenegger was elected promoting the big man, big truck mentality! ME FIRST! That's what driving on the highways and biways of this great country is all about. Never once glancing away from the direction you have pointed your vehicle to care about the other guy.
The Second Amendment to the United States Constitution:
"A well lubricated Vehicle, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear SUVs, shall not be infringed."
They *feel* safer, so they assume they *are* safer. Doesn't work like that, but the *feeling* of safety is what is important to them in the short term, and that's what they listen to.
Yeah, and that further compounds the problem. At best, it gives them a false sense of security (which might therefore encourage less safe driving habits). At worst, it brings out the Type-A "I'm more important than everyone else" aspect of the personalities that seem to flock the most to the SUV. As in, "I'm big and bad, so you better just get the fvck out of my way" - which definitely encourages less safe driving habits!
Hey, Fellowship, that looks like a nice car. Too bad I never heard of it when I bought my new car. Still, I have no regrets for my Honda Civic Hydrid. The variable speed transmission is one of the coolest things. Absolutely no shifting, not even automatic shifting! And yes that is next to my porsche, so I have a gas-guzzler (18MPG) and a super efeciant car (41MPG). I figure they kinda cancel out and make me normal. (The third blue Celica is not street legal and gets about 11MPG but then it is a race car)
But the answer is educating the driver, not banning/taxing/assaulting the vehicle.
SUVs definitely should be taxed more, because they cause more wear and tear on the road. Just like 18-wheelers, they should pay more at tolls, shouldn't be allowed on Boulevards, and should be taxed more on a yearly basis to repair the damage a heavier vehicle causes to the roads.
SUVs definitely should be taxed more, because they cause more wear and tear on the road. Just like 18-wheelers, they should pay more at tolls, shouldn't be allowed on Boulevards, and should be taxed more on a yearly basis to repair the damage a heavier vehicle causes to the roads.
That's great. We also need to tax all protesters for the extra wear and tear on the sidewalk. Especially if they are fat.
That's great. We also need to tax all protesters for the extra wear and tear on the sidewalk. Especially if they are fat.
If you use more gas, you're taxed more since you pay every gallon. That's good. But there are other considerations as well.
I'm not anti SUV like some people, I've even considered them because I take public transportation to work and wouldn't need to rely on my auto for day to day driving. But, they still suck too much for my tastes right now.
That's great. We also need to tax all protesters for the extra wear and tear on the sidewalk. Especially if they are fat.
No, the protesters are in the Free Speech Zones, miles and miles away from the sidewalk, the street, the public, the press, and of course most importantly the President.
The Expedition's front end sustained $2800 worth of damage when the bumper attachment point snapped instead of crumpling, and the sharp metal bar punctured the radiator from beneath.
I don't know about the Expedition, but my Suburban didn't even have one nick or scratch on its chrome bumper which is directly attached to the ladder frame. In a collision with a crumply car at low speed, I'd say it holds up more often than not. It's crashes with large inelastic objects that hurt that kind of set-up as far as repair is concerned. Anyway, I fail to see how a $2800 bill relates to safety.
The only time I've ever witnessed an SUV rear-ending a car, it was a large Cadillac Deville that got punted into the back of a minivan in front of it at a stop sign. The SUV struck it at a slight angle, and the first thing that impacted the car was one of the tow hooks poking out through the bumper. Again, that was the only thing that was damaged on the SUV (it looked slightly bent downward) and the Deville's rear-end looked like an accordion. Still, this anecdote is kind of pointless because it says nothing about the conditions of the passengers. They all seemed fine to me. Probably swollen necks the next day for all.
I don't know about the Expedition, but my Suburban didn't even have one nick or scratch on its chrome bumper which is directly attached to the ladder frame. In a collision with a crumply car at low speed, I'd say it holds up more often than not. It's crashes with large inelastic objects that hurt that kind of set-up as far as repair is concerned. Anyway, I fail to see how a $2800 bill relates to safety.
My anecdote was as relevant to safety as was yours... which is to say not much at all. You were comparing damages to the vehicles involved, as did I.
My anecdote was as relevant to safety as was yours... which is to say not much at all. You were comparing damages to the vehicles involved, as did I.
Except I mentioned injury in my first example. She had a nasty case of whiplash (which she used to try to delay the insurance claims process) and I did not, despite being the person who was blindsided.
Quote:
She had a pretty nasty case of whiplash, IIRC. I had a broken license plate frame.
Ah, well in that case, my wife was fine, the mother in the SUV had a bloody nose. *shrug*
Tomayto, tomahto.
A bloody nose from what? Did the airbag deploy? Honestly, the logistics of this story sound fishy to me. If the impact was so large that it caused her body to lurch and hit something despite being buckled in, then I highly doubt the rear-ended car has no structural damage other than an 'imprint.'
But then again, you've basically described an indestructible sedan and an SUV made out of pig-iron. How fast do you estimate the SUV was travelling before the collision?
IIRC, the mother did it to herself, bringing her own forearm up and then her head popped forward to meet it, and it was under 10mph. Twas a shoddy bumper is all (well, and an IDIOT driver)... although it *was* over the 5mph minimum required for trucks. My wife had the presence of mind to let off the brake on impact, since no one was in front of her. Her springier frame took the collision - the more rigid bumper mount did not. My only point was that there are enough freaky occurrences out there to illustrate many sides as anecdotes.
Suburbans are pretty much built like tanks, with a long-established design. My family had a '79 for most of the 80s (heck, it was what I learned to parallel park in), and they have a proven track record for being one of the more sanely designed SUVs out there... they were *designed* to haul people from the get go, not as an afterthought like so many of the others.
On the topic of some SUV owners being had... how do you like the scam that is the H2? The original Hummer, based directly off of the Humvee, was an *incredible* machine, and strictly on the basis of its abilities, was worth most of the high price if you needed such a thing. The H2? A Chevy Tahoe with a new skin. It hasn't the power, the clearance, the climbing or traction ability of the original... but for basically the same price. Talk about pulling one over on the public. Idiot tax?
In vehicle to vehicle accidents, the SUV will often demolish a small-mid car. The size and weight work to keep the occupants safe.
In a single vehicle accident -- Vehicle roll over, offset impact, collision with guard rails/posts/trees/walls -- most cars will fare better than SUV's because an SUV's weight is working against it.
A 3000 pound car hitting a wall at 40MPH generates considerably less force than a 4800 pound SUV hitting that same wall.
Each vehicle is indeed safer than the other in certain situations. "Safety", then becomes a game of percentages, which situations are more common.
Do vehicles ofetn collide with each other? head on? t-bone? rear-end?
Which types result in serious injury/death?
Is it loss of control? Single vehicle accidents where a car swerves, hits a railing or post, rolls?
How many deaths and where?
I would be surprised if the best balance of 'safety' wasn't to be found in a mid-large size sedan.
Comments
Before that, all we had were those dinky station wagons from the '70s. Lots of space, but so uncool! So Brady Bunch!
Govenor Schwarzenegger was elected promoting the big man, big truck mentality! ME FIRST! That's what driving on the highways and biways of this great country is all about. Never once glancing away from the direction you have pointed your vehicle to care about the other guy.
The Second Amendment to the United States Constitution:
"A well lubricated Vehicle, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear SUVs, shall not be infringed."
Remember, driving is a RIGHT, not a privlege.
Originally posted by JimDreamworx
Before that, all we had were those dinky station wagons from the '70s. Lots of space, but so uncool! So Brady Bunch!
Govenor Schwarzenegger was elected promoting the big man, big truck mentality! ME FIRST!
Wow, he missed out on a great campaign slogan incorporating his favorite ride - "A Hummer in every garage!"
Originally posted by JimDreamworx
Thank goodness Detroit got it right with the SUV!
Before that, all we had were those dinky station wagons from the '70s. Lots of space, but so uncool! So Brady Bunch!
Govenor Schwarzenegger was elected promoting the big man, big truck mentality! ME FIRST! That's what driving on the highways and biways of this great country is all about. Never once glancing away from the direction you have pointed your vehicle to care about the other guy.
The Second Amendment to the United States Constitution:
"A well lubricated Vehicle, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear SUVs, shall not be infringed."
Remember, driving is a RIGHT, not a privlege.
I hereby declair the formation of the N-SUV-A
call Charly Heston! WE NEED A BIG TIME PITCHMAN
Get the terminator as the pichmans #2
put out a press release!
THIS IS GONNA BE HUGE!
Originally posted by Kickaha
They *feel* safer, so they assume they *are* safer. Doesn't work like that, but the *feeling* of safety is what is important to them in the short term, and that's what they listen to.
Yeah, and that further compounds the problem. At best, it gives them a false sense of security (which might therefore encourage less safe driving habits). At worst, it brings out the Type-A "I'm more important than everyone else" aspect of the personalities that seem to flock the most to the SUV. As in, "I'm big and bad, so you better just get the fvck out of my way" - which definitely encourages less safe driving habits!
Originally posted by Ebby
Hey, Fellowship, that looks like a nice car. Too bad I never heard of it when I bought my new car. Still, I have no regrets for my Honda Civic Hydrid. The variable speed transmission is one of the coolest things. Absolutely no shifting, not even automatic shifting! And yes that is next to my porsche, so I have a gas-guzzler (18MPG) and a super efeciant car (41MPG). I figure they kinda cancel out and make me normal.
GREAT CAR YOU GOT THERE!
Fellows
Originally posted by Jubelum
So what, it's MY fault that i drive an SUV if i am struck and killed by a dump truck or 18-wheeler?
People are tested before being allowed to drive an 18-wheeler.
Originally posted by trailmaster308
Just joking about the mush thing. My wife feels safer driving her new SUV than she did before.
Honestly, this is one of the problems. A false sense of security in an untrained driver causes problems for the vehicles (of any size) around them.
Originally posted by Jubelum
But the answer is educating the driver, not banning/taxing/assaulting the vehicle.
SUVs definitely should be taxed more, because they cause more wear and tear on the road. Just like 18-wheelers, they should pay more at tolls, shouldn't be allowed on Boulevards, and should be taxed more on a yearly basis to repair the damage a heavier vehicle causes to the roads.
Originally posted by bunge
SUVs definitely should be taxed more, because they cause more wear and tear on the road. Just like 18-wheelers, they should pay more at tolls, shouldn't be allowed on Boulevards, and should be taxed more on a yearly basis to repair the damage a heavier vehicle causes to the roads.
That's great. We also need to tax all protesters for the extra wear and tear on the sidewalk. Especially if they are fat.
Originally posted by Jubelum
That's great. We also need to tax all protesters for the extra wear and tear on the sidewalk. Especially if they are fat.
If you use more gas, you're taxed more since you pay every gallon. That's good. But there are other considerations as well.
I'm not anti SUV like some people, I've even considered them because I take public transportation to work and wouldn't need to rely on my auto for day to day driving. But, they still suck too much for my tastes right now.
Originally posted by Jubelum
That's great. We also need to tax all protesters for the extra wear and tear on the sidewalk. Especially if they are fat.
No, the protesters are in the Free Speech Zones, miles and miles away from the sidewalk, the street, the public, the press, and of course most importantly the President.
Originally posted by bunge
People are tested before being allowed to drive an 18-wheeler.
Not in Illinois.
Originally posted by Kickaha
The Expedition's front end sustained $2800 worth of damage when the bumper attachment point snapped instead of crumpling, and the sharp metal bar punctured the radiator from beneath.
I don't know about the Expedition, but my Suburban didn't even have one nick or scratch on its chrome bumper which is directly attached to the ladder frame. In a collision with a crumply car at low speed, I'd say it holds up more often than not. It's crashes with large inelastic objects that hurt that kind of set-up as far as repair is concerned. Anyway, I fail to see how a $2800 bill relates to safety.
The only time I've ever witnessed an SUV rear-ending a car, it was a large Cadillac Deville that got punted into the back of a minivan in front of it at a stop sign. The SUV struck it at a slight angle, and the first thing that impacted the car was one of the tow hooks poking out through the bumper. Again, that was the only thing that was damaged on the SUV (it looked slightly bent downward) and the Deville's rear-end looked like an accordion. Still, this anecdote is kind of pointless because it says nothing about the conditions of the passengers. They all seemed fine to me. Probably swollen necks the next day for all.
Originally posted by Scott
Not in Illinois.
I always enjoy when people who are completely sure that they are totally right, are in fact totally wrong.
A Commercial Drivers License (or "CDL") is required to operate a dump truck, semi-trailer, etc. etc. in pretty much every state that I'm aware of.
Originally posted by Eugene
I don't know about the Expedition, but my Suburban didn't even have one nick or scratch on its chrome bumper which is directly attached to the ladder frame. In a collision with a crumply car at low speed, I'd say it holds up more often than not. It's crashes with large inelastic objects that hurt that kind of set-up as far as repair is concerned. Anyway, I fail to see how a $2800 bill relates to safety.
My anecdote was as relevant to safety as was yours... which is to say not much at all. You were comparing damages to the vehicles involved, as did I.
Originally posted by Kickaha
My anecdote was as relevant to safety as was yours... which is to say not much at all. You were comparing damages to the vehicles involved, as did I.
Except I mentioned injury in my first example. She had a nasty case of whiplash (which she used to try to delay the insurance claims process) and I did not, despite being the person who was blindsided.
She had a pretty nasty case of whiplash, IIRC. I had a broken license plate frame.
Tomayto, tomahto.
Originally posted by Kickaha
Ah, well in that case, my wife was fine, the mother in the SUV had a bloody nose. *shrug*
Tomayto, tomahto.
A bloody nose from what? Did the airbag deploy? Honestly, the logistics of this story sound fishy to me. If the impact was so large that it caused her body to lurch and hit something despite being buckled in, then I highly doubt the rear-ended car has no structural damage other than an 'imprint.'
But then again, you've basically described an indestructible sedan and an SUV made out of pig-iron. How fast do you estimate the SUV was travelling before the collision?
IIRC, the mother did it to herself, bringing her own forearm up and then her head popped forward to meet it, and it was under 10mph. Twas a shoddy bumper is all (well, and an IDIOT driver)... although it *was* over the 5mph minimum required for trucks.
Suburbans are pretty much built like tanks, with a long-established design. My family had a '79 for most of the 80s (heck, it was what I learned to parallel park in), and they have a proven track record for being one of the more sanely designed SUVs out there... they were *designed* to haul people from the get go, not as an afterthought like so many of the others.
On the topic of some SUV owners being had... how do you like the scam that is the H2? The original Hummer, based directly off of the Humvee, was an *incredible* machine, and strictly on the basis of its abilities, was worth most of the high price if you needed such a thing. The H2? A Chevy Tahoe with a new skin. It hasn't the power, the clearance, the climbing or traction ability of the original... but for basically the same price. Talk about pulling one over on the public. Idiot tax?
In vehicle to vehicle accidents, the SUV will often demolish a small-mid car. The size and weight work to keep the occupants safe.
In a single vehicle accident -- Vehicle roll over, offset impact, collision with guard rails/posts/trees/walls -- most cars will fare better than SUV's because an SUV's weight is working against it.
A 3000 pound car hitting a wall at 40MPH generates considerably less force than a 4800 pound SUV hitting that same wall.
Each vehicle is indeed safer than the other in certain situations. "Safety", then becomes a game of percentages, which situations are more common.
Do vehicles ofetn collide with each other? head on? t-bone? rear-end?
Which types result in serious injury/death?
Is it loss of control? Single vehicle accidents where a car swerves, hits a railing or post, rolls?
How many deaths and where?
I would be surprised if the best balance of 'safety' wasn't to be found in a mid-large size sedan.