I posted the same links in the other thread too. Now, unless something goes really wrong this year, I think it is a safe bet that the next Powerbook iteration will have those improved G4s.
Sorry, but this roadmap doesn't indicate ANYTHING about Motorola (or Freescale) being back. It doesn't give any time frame when to expect all the stuff they announced today...
Well that info sounds good, it sounds like they have a future for the G4, and it looks like they will eventually have a "G5". But as everyone else pointed out, when? And isn't it a little late.
If they get their act together they might just keep their chips in the low-end Macs - eMac and iBook. Possibly the iMac, but I doubt it. I don't see them competing with IBM, though, I don't think they can catch up to IBM, unless IBM has further problems.
Well that info sounds good, it sounds like they have a future for the G4, and it looks like they will eventually have a "G5". But as everyone else pointed out, when? And isn't it a little late.
If they get their act together they might just keep their chips in the low-end Macs - eMac and iBook. Possibly the iMac, but I doubt it. I don't see them competing with IBM, though, I don't think they can catch up to IBM, unless IBM has further problems.
I don't think they need to compete with IBM. FreeScale is creating cool running chips for laptops. I think a dual core 2GHZ chip in the Powerbook with Rapid I/O is a better option for the laptop than a G5. I see them as the company that powers the laptops and IBM the company that powers the desktops.
I don't think they need to compete with IBM. FreeScale is creating cool running chips for laptops. I think a dual core 2GHZ chip in the Powerbook with Rapid I/O is a better option for the laptop than a G5. I see them as the company that powers the laptops and IBM the company that powers the desktops.
If you're talking about the 970 I'll agree with you. You have to remember they are sticking 97x into the xbox 2. The 970fx runs at an incredible low power compared to most other desktop chips. The 970fx could be a GREAT laptop chip... if the northbridge would work in a laptop that is.
Everything you're hearing/reading about IBM 97x chips to date, whether we're talking about their supposedly outstanding frugality, agressive development schedule, inclusion in sub $300 consoles, etc etc...
this is all clearly speculation at best, and blatant bullshit at worst.
Untill you have a production sample, you've no evidence that any of it will happen. Worst of all, NEVER, NEVER, EVER quote the web sources in reference to game consoles. NOT as a source of future hardware, they go well beyond the stupidity of the everyday rumor web into a whole new realm of fan-boy fantasy.
For now, G5's are fast, and G4's are cool, and there's no evidence that it will change any time soon.
If freescale/motorola come out with a new G4 with a DDR bus, 90nm process, and 1MB L2 cache it's going to cream the celerons. I would order a PowerBook with a chip like this in a second.
Everything you're hearing/reading about IBM 97x chips to date, whether we're talking about their supposedly outstanding frugality, agressive development schedule, inclusion in sub $300 consoles, etc etc...
this is all clearly speculation at best, and blatant bullshit at worst.
Untill you have a production sample, you've no evidence that any of it will happen. Worst of all, NEVER, NEVER, EVER quote the web sources in reference to game consoles. NOT as a source of future hardware, they go well beyond the stupidity of the everyday rumor web into a whole new realm of fan-boy fantasy.
For now, G5's are fast, and G4's are cool, and there's no evidence that it will change any time soon.
You're probably right about the game console rumors... BUT!!
One of the main purposes of the 970fx was to run cooler and use LESS power. Even apple has admitted they will eventually put a g5 in a powerbook. They just claim its far away.
Moreso the Celerons. The G4 is crippled by the bus, the Celeron by the small cache. Get rid of the bus bottleneck, Celeron = creamed.
Think eMacs, and the market they compete in.
Barto
Perhaps I don't understand what "creamed" means in this context (english is not my native language), but I had the impression that today's G4s already beat badly the Celerons. Look for example the CPU test discussed in this thread; there is a Celeron in there, look at the total time it gave.
One should not forget that Crolles is a very modern fab, comparable to Fishkill. It is planned to go the whole 90nm -> 45nm (or even 35) transition and was built some time ago. I don't know if they are building the 7447A there or in the older fabs, but they should be able to establish their 90nm process by fall, maybe earlier.
Once Freescale has a running 90nm process, they can use some of the chip space they gain for larger on-chip caches, faster bus interface and maybe a revved SMD unit. This combined with a deeper pipeline will make the G4 much faster, both in Ghz and performance.
The Book e CPUs were drafted long ago, implementing them should be very doable without a huge lot of funding.
I still stand by the thread title: Moto (in the shape of Freescale) is back, and the 7447A was only the lowest hanging fruit.
Although it hasn't been mentioned in this thread so far, I was wondering if the new Freescale roadmap has something to do with Mr Macphito's 'revelation' that Apple has dropped the 750VX from its future products (apparently a substantial time ago).
One thing I haven't seen on the forums here (granted I've only been looking over the past 8 months) is what the extent of the collaboration is between Apple, IBM and Motorola over PowerPC chip design. Is it possible that there has been substantial technology transfers between these companies?
Although Moto canned the G5, the G5 that IBM arrived at last year was remarkably similar to that of the rumoured Moto chip on its 2001/2 roadmap. Did Moto sell its design to IBM? In 2003/4, Could it be possible that IBM, seeing that Apple preferred Moto's/Freescale 74xx laptop chips over its 750 series, concentrated on the 970 series and gave Moto access to its 750 series chip technology (eg. with the larger L2 cache to be seen in the 750GX version)?
... One thing I haven't seen on the forums here (granted I've only been looking over the past 8 months) is what the extent of the collaboration is between Apple, IBM and Motorola over PowerPC chip design. Is it possible that there has been substantial technology transfers between these companies? ...
I believe that the bulk of the collaboration between Motorolla and IBM happened up through the G3 development, There was a difference in opinion on where to go with the G4 between Moto and IBM, they both put proposals foreward to Apple for the desktop version of the chip (Apple being the only major customer for these ships at the time) and Apple chose to go with the Motorolla chip design. IBM subsequently decided that the design was not the direction that they wanted to go in so they did not take part in it's deveopment, instead concentrating on the Power archetecture.
Although Moto canned the G5, the G5 that IBM arrived at last year was remarkably similar to that of the rumoured Moto chip on its 2001/2 roadmap. Did Moto sell its design to IBM?
IBM based the G5, the PowerPC 970 on the POWER 4 chip (with a couple of modifications liked reduced cache, and the addition of a SIMD unit) so the answer to your question is, NO Moto did not sell it's design to IBM.
IBM based the G5, the PowerPC 970 on the POWER 4 chip (with a couple of modifications liked reduced cache, and the addition of a SIMD unit) so the answer to your question is, NO Moto did not sell it's design to IBM.
You are entirely right.
However Mot try to sell his fab expertise to IBM, but this is an another story
..... Worst of all, NEVER, NEVER, EVER quote the web sources in reference to game consoles. NOT as a source of future hardware, they go well beyond the stupidity of the everyday rumor ......
An IBM Power chip will be the heart of Microsoft?s next Xbox model.
That's the best I can do. It doesn't say IBM PPC 970, Power 4, Power 5 or whatever. Just says "An IBM Power chip". What can be inferred is that it will use the Power/PowerPC ISA possibly with additional instructions added to optimize the game console.
Comments
Freescale Semiconductor reveals PowerPC® core roadmap and scalable system-on-chip platforms
High-Performance PowerPC Processors
Roadmap
I posted the same links in the other thread too. Now, unless something goes really wrong this year, I think it is a safe bet that the next Powerbook iteration will have those improved G4s.
Originally posted by PB
It looks like indeed Motorola is back:
Freescale Semiconductor reveals PowerPC® core roadmap and scalable system-on-chip platforms
High-Performance PowerPC Processors
Roadmap
Sorry, but this roadmap doesn't indicate ANYTHING about Motorola (or Freescale) being back. It doesn't give any time frame when to expect all the stuff they announced today...
If they get their act together they might just keep their chips in the low-end Macs - eMac and iBook. Possibly the iMac, but I doubt it. I don't see them competing with IBM, though, I don't think they can catch up to IBM, unless IBM has further problems.
Originally posted by Leonard
Well that info sounds good, it sounds like they have a future for the G4, and it looks like they will eventually have a "G5". But as everyone else pointed out, when? And isn't it a little late.
If they get their act together they might just keep their chips in the low-end Macs - eMac and iBook. Possibly the iMac, but I doubt it. I don't see them competing with IBM, though, I don't think they can catch up to IBM, unless IBM has further problems.
I don't think they need to compete with IBM. FreeScale is creating cool running chips for laptops. I think a dual core 2GHZ chip in the Powerbook with Rapid I/O is a better option for the laptop than a G5. I see them as the company that powers the laptops and IBM the company that powers the desktops.
Originally posted by Mr. MacPhisto
I don't think they need to compete with IBM. FreeScale is creating cool running chips for laptops. I think a dual core 2GHZ chip in the Powerbook with Rapid I/O is a better option for the laptop than a G5. I see them as the company that powers the laptops and IBM the company that powers the desktops.
If you're talking about the 970 I'll agree with you. You have to remember they are sticking 97x into the xbox 2. The 970fx runs at an incredible low power compared to most other desktop chips. The 970fx could be a GREAT laptop chip... if the northbridge would work in a laptop that is.
this is all clearly speculation at best, and blatant bullshit at worst.
Untill you have a production sample, you've no evidence that any of it will happen. Worst of all, NEVER, NEVER, EVER quote the web sources in reference to game consoles. NOT as a source of future hardware, they go well beyond the stupidity of the everyday rumor web into a whole new realm of fan-boy fantasy.
For now, G5's are fast, and G4's are cool, and there's no evidence that it will change any time soon.
Originally posted by Matsu
Everything you're hearing/reading about IBM 97x chips to date, whether we're talking about their supposedly outstanding frugality, agressive development schedule, inclusion in sub $300 consoles, etc etc...
this is all clearly speculation at best, and blatant bullshit at worst.
Untill you have a production sample, you've no evidence that any of it will happen. Worst of all, NEVER, NEVER, EVER quote the web sources in reference to game consoles. NOT as a source of future hardware, they go well beyond the stupidity of the everyday rumor web into a whole new realm of fan-boy fantasy.
For now, G5's are fast, and G4's are cool, and there's no evidence that it will change any time soon.
You're probably right about the game console rumors... BUT!!
One of the main purposes of the 970fx was to run cooler and use LESS power. Even apple has admitted they will eventually put a g5 in a powerbook. They just claim its far away.
Originally posted by Algol
If freescale/motorola come out with a new G4 with a DDR bus, 90nm process, and 1MB L2 cache it's going to cream the celerons.
Celerons? Do you mean centrinos?
Originally posted by emig647
Even apple has admitted they will eventually put a g5 in a powerbook. They just claim its far away.
Which indicates that this wouldn't be the G5 we know today.
Originally posted by PB
Celerons? Do you mean centrinos?
Moreso the Celerons. The G4 is crippled by the bus, the Celeron by the small cache. Get rid of the bus bottleneck, Celeron = creamed.
Think eMacs, and the market they compete in.
Barto
Originally posted by Barto
Moreso the Celerons. The G4 is crippled by the bus, the Celeron by the small cache. Get rid of the bus bottleneck, Celeron = creamed.
Think eMacs, and the market they compete in.
Barto
Perhaps I don't understand what "creamed" means in this context (english is not my native language), but I had the impression that today's G4s already beat badly the Celerons. Look for example the CPU test discussed in this thread; there is a Celeron in there, look at the total time it gave.
Then again a minor miracle might happen and Moto/FS will be able to acually manufacture and not only design a good CPU. That will not hurt apple.
Once Freescale has a running 90nm process, they can use some of the chip space they gain for larger on-chip caches, faster bus interface and maybe a revved SMD unit. This combined with a deeper pipeline will make the G4 much faster, both in Ghz and performance.
The Book e CPUs were drafted long ago, implementing them should be very doable without a huge lot of funding.
I still stand by the thread title: Moto (in the shape of Freescale) is back, and the 7447A was only the lowest hanging fruit.
Originally posted by Smircle
The Book e CPUs were drafted long ago, implementing them should be very doable without a huge lot of funding.
Book E have been implemented for a long time in Moto's 85xx-series and IBM's 400-family.
One thing I haven't seen on the forums here (granted I've only been looking over the past 8 months) is what the extent of the collaboration is between Apple, IBM and Motorola over PowerPC chip design. Is it possible that there has been substantial technology transfers between these companies?
Although Moto canned the G5, the G5 that IBM arrived at last year was remarkably similar to that of the rumoured Moto chip on its 2001/2 roadmap. Did Moto sell its design to IBM? In 2003/4, Could it be possible that IBM, seeing that Apple preferred Moto's/Freescale 74xx laptop chips over its 750 series, concentrated on the 970 series and gave Moto access to its 750 series chip technology (eg. with the larger L2 cache to be seen in the 750GX version)?
Just a thought
Originally posted by a j stev
... One thing I haven't seen on the forums here (granted I've only been looking over the past 8 months) is what the extent of the collaboration is between Apple, IBM and Motorola over PowerPC chip design. Is it possible that there has been substantial technology transfers between these companies? ...
I believe that the bulk of the collaboration between Motorolla and IBM happened up through the G3 development, There was a difference in opinion on where to go with the G4 between Moto and IBM, they both put proposals foreward to Apple for the desktop version of the chip (Apple being the only major customer for these ships at the time) and Apple chose to go with the Motorolla chip design. IBM subsequently decided that the design was not the direction that they wanted to go in so they did not take part in it's deveopment, instead concentrating on the Power archetecture.
Originally posted by a j stev
Although Moto canned the G5, the G5 that IBM arrived at last year was remarkably similar to that of the rumoured Moto chip on its 2001/2 roadmap. Did Moto sell its design to IBM?
IBM based the G5, the PowerPC 970 on the POWER 4 chip (with a couple of modifications liked reduced cache, and the addition of a SIMD unit) so the answer to your question is, NO Moto did not sell it's design to IBM.
Originally posted by Leonard
IBM based the G5, the PowerPC 970 on the POWER 4 chip (with a couple of modifications liked reduced cache, and the addition of a SIMD unit) so the answer to your question is, NO Moto did not sell it's design to IBM.
You are entirely right.
However Mot try to sell his fab expertise to IBM, but this is an another story
Originally posted by Matsu
..... inclusion in sub $300 consoles, etc etc...
..... Worst of all, NEVER, NEVER, EVER quote the web sources in reference to game consoles. NOT as a source of future hardware, they go well beyond the stupidity of the everyday rumor ......
It?s all in the game ? opportunities abound in electronic play
An IBM Power chip will be the heart of Microsoft?s next Xbox model.
That's the best I can do. It doesn't say IBM PPC 970, Power 4, Power 5 or whatever. Just says "An IBM Power chip". What can be inferred is that it will use the Power/PowerPC ISA possibly with additional instructions added to optimize the game console.