My gut says that Apple will announce a PowerMac based on the Power5 derivative (commonly called the 975). If IBM's production schedule holds, these chips should be available in quantity during the summer.
The VX chips could not have been here already because of the snags @90nm. They were designed to be fabbed at 90nm, so their timetable was pushed back to late summer when they were canned in January. I would assume that FreeScale has got something big coming this summer. Amorph has tackled all this stuff better than I could - but Moto's own documents indicate a possible 2GHZ G4 with faster bus, increased cache, and better memory support. I'm not betting the farm, but if this happens then the G4 becomes a very viable chip once more. The Moto stuff I've read inicates that FreeScale thinks they can take the 74xx up to 3GHZ. Don't know anything about what's happening at FreeScale, but I do think Apple expects some chips from them that are superior to what they worked on with IBM (the VX supported up to a quad-pumped bus (4x100MHZ). However, my guess would be that we won't see these things in 'Books until September - though that's a hunch based on length of revisions. The could surprise me and revise them in the middle of the summer, right before the back-to-school season. This would be a welcome surprise - though I'm sure it'd tick off those who are buying the new laptops.
SOC was tackled by Amorph. In theory, SOC should cut cost and often power consumption. This would also make the logic board easier and cheaper to design. I'm not sure if FreeScale has got any SOC plans of their own that Apple could use.
very very interesting........
im guessing that there will NOT be a powermac update until the WWDC no?
why would apple release g5's based on the 90nm 970 when the 975 is right around the corner?
2.0-2.5 ghz?
its too late for that.
why not wait and blow 'em away with the 975.
that doesnt mean that the ENTIRE powermac lineup will go 975......im sure apple will mix it up.
as for the "vx" chips.........didnt you say that they "toast" the g4s?
so how could they be comparable to the new motorola g4s unless there is something radically different under the hood of these new g4's.
it must be something special to make apple go BACK to motorola.
im guessing that there will NOT be a powermac update until the WWDC no?
why would apple release g5's based on the 90nm 970 when the 975 is right around the corner?
2.0-2.5 ghz?
its too late for that.
why not wait and blow 'em away with the 975.
that doesnt mean that the ENTIRE powermac lineup will go 975......im sure apple will mix it up.
as for the "vx" chips.........didnt you say that they "toast" the g4s?
so how could they be comparable to the new motorola g4s unless there is something radically different under the hood of these new g4's.
it must be something special to make apple go BACK to motorola.
wow.
as the apple turns for sure..........
thanks for checking in macphisto
best wishes.\
They toasted the previous set of 180nm G4s - mainly due to increased cache and faster FSB support. I think the advantage will be lost based on stuff I've read of late. If the IBM chip was superior to the FreeScale chips coming, I'd think Apple would have waited for production. FreeScale has hinted at some intriguing alternatives beginning this summer.
Thing is, Moto semiconductors still has potential. Motorola management was something that helped significantly in the divisions' decline. The new plant in Crolles and the new management (and new alliances) give it good potential.
I would have checked in over the weekend, but the NFL draft was distracting
To clarify Henriok's reply: Yes, it is, notwithstanding the trouble they ran into with the 85xx series (which were mostly due to Motorola's old bugbear, dirty fabs).
IBM also does some SoC work, although they just sold all their PPC4xx-based SoC designs and the rights to them to an embedded systems vendor, and they're back to developing only the 4xx cores themselves.
The two companies have different approaches: IBM is trying highly automated, modular design, while Motorola/Freescale prefers carefully hand-tuned design.
I would assume that FreeScale has got something big coming this summer. Amorph has tackled all this stuff better than I could - but Moto's own documents indicate a possible 2GHZ G4 with faster bus, increased cache, and better memory support. I'm not betting the farm, but if this happens then the G4 becomes a very viable chip once more. The Moto stuff I've read inicates that FreeScale thinks they can take the 74xx up to 3GHZ. Don't know anything about what's happening at FreeScale, but I do think Apple expects some chips from them that are superior to what they worked on with IBM (the VX supported up to a quad-pumped bus (4x100MHZ). However, my guess would be that we won't see these things in 'Books until September - though that's a hunch based on length of revisions. The could surprise me and revise them in the middle of the summer, right before the back-to-school season. This would be a welcome surprise - though I'm sure it'd tick off those who are buying the new laptops.
These are my thoughts too some time now for a new G4. But in any case, I don't expect anything in the Powerbooks before the new year, and I would not be surprised if the next Powerbook is again a G4 (but not the G4 we know today).
To clarify Henriok's reply: Yes, it is, notwithstanding the trouble they ran into with the 85xx series (which were mostly due to Motorola's old bugbear, dirty fabs).
IBM also does some SoC work, although they just sold all their PPC4xx-based SoC designs and the rights to them to an embedded systems vendor, and they're back to developing only the 4xx cores themselves.
OK, so MOTO does do SOC's for embedded systems other than mainstream computers?
They toasted the previous set of 180nm G4s - mainly due to increased cache and faster FSB support. I think the advantage will be lost based on stuff I've read of late. If the IBM chip was superior to the FreeScale chips coming, I'd think Apple would have waited for production. FreeScale has hinted at some intriguing alternatives beginning this summer.
Thing is, Moto semiconductors still has potential. Motorola management was something that helped significantly in the divisions' decline. The new plant in Crolles and the new management (and new alliances) give it good potential.
I would have checked in over the weekend, but the NFL draft was distracting
give us ome specifics about these "intriguing alternatives".
lets say the get the g4 to 2 ghz..........thats great but so what.
it would have to be REAL good for apple to swithc back to moto.
Well at this point every computer Apple sells with the exception of the top 3 Powermac models use Moto and actually the iBook line has switched to Moto from IBM G3's recently.
We'll see if it's more than just a paper launch. There was speculation that the G5 could eek out ahead in the GHz field around this time frame at one point.
What ever the case as long as IBM / Apple can ship 3GHz in June, a 600 MHz gap is not bad at all, especially if it's from a 975 cpu.
We'll see if it's more than just a paper launch. There was speculation that the G5 could eek out ahead in the GHz field around this time frame at one point.
What ever the case as long as IBM / Apple can ship 3GHz in June, a 600 MHz gap is not bad at all, especially if it's from a 975 cpu.
Is Intel even shipping any 90nm chips at any speed in volume yet?
Is Intel even shipping any 90nm chips at any speed in volume yet?
Intel is so screwed up right now, it is very hard to tell what they are shipping.
All I know is that in 12-18 months I will be able to buy a P4 socket 478 ( what ever is the last best chip for that socket) on the cheap. Then, as soon as AGP 8x-4x 256MB highend cards drop to sub $200, I will be in on those too, I will fill those empty memory banks with highly discounted DDR 400. Then I will finally buy two flat panel displays on the cheap, because I will be able to pick them up at GoodWill for $20 a pop, and the last of my pipe dream is to finally use those 18 month old SATA ports with some big brawny Hard drives. And with all that LongHorn will still crash every 45 days requiring me to completely reload to OS.
Then my kids will have an out of date piece-O-poop and still want to play on my wife's, by then, Almost seven year old iMac, it's not going anywhere.
We'll see if it's more than just a paper launch. There was speculation that the G5 could eek out ahead in the GHz field around this time frame at one point.
Considering Intel has been at >3 GHz since last year and Steve Jobs only promised 3 GHz by this summer, I don't think anyone has ever suggested that the G5 would take the lead in clockrate. Thats not what matters though -- performance is what counts, and since the G5 can do a fair bit more work per clock cycle it doesn't need to out-clock Prescott. Prescott looks to be about the least efficient processor on the planet right now.
Considering Intel has been at >3 GHz since last year and Steve Jobs only promised 3 GHz by this summer, I don't think anyone has ever suggested that the G5 would take the lead in clockrate. Thats not what matters though -- performance is what counts, and since the G5 can do a fair bit more work per clock cycle it doesn't need to out-clock Prescott. Prescott looks to be about the least efficient processor on the planet right now.
Comments
Originally posted by oldmacfan
Is not SOC a specialty of MOTO-FreeScale?
No, IBMs been doing a lot of SoC designs based on their PowerPC 400 line.
Originally posted by Mr. MacPhisto
My gut says that Apple will announce a PowerMac based on the Power5 derivative (commonly called the 975). If IBM's production schedule holds, these chips should be available in quantity during the summer.
The VX chips could not have been here already because of the snags @90nm. They were designed to be fabbed at 90nm, so their timetable was pushed back to late summer when they were canned in January. I would assume that FreeScale has got something big coming this summer. Amorph has tackled all this stuff better than I could - but Moto's own documents indicate a possible 2GHZ G4 with faster bus, increased cache, and better memory support. I'm not betting the farm, but if this happens then the G4 becomes a very viable chip once more. The Moto stuff I've read inicates that FreeScale thinks they can take the 74xx up to 3GHZ. Don't know anything about what's happening at FreeScale, but I do think Apple expects some chips from them that are superior to what they worked on with IBM (the VX supported up to a quad-pumped bus (4x100MHZ). However, my guess would be that we won't see these things in 'Books until September - though that's a hunch based on length of revisions. The could surprise me and revise them in the middle of the summer, right before the back-to-school season. This would be a welcome surprise - though I'm sure it'd tick off those who are buying the new laptops.
SOC was tackled by Amorph. In theory, SOC should cut cost and often power consumption. This would also make the logic board easier and cheaper to design. I'm not sure if FreeScale has got any SOC plans of their own that Apple could use.
very very interesting........
im guessing that there will NOT be a powermac update until the WWDC no?
why would apple release g5's based on the 90nm 970 when the 975 is right around the corner?
2.0-2.5 ghz?
its too late for that.
why not wait and blow 'em away with the 975.
that doesnt mean that the ENTIRE powermac lineup will go 975......im sure apple will mix it up.
as for the "vx" chips.........didnt you say that they "toast" the g4s?
so how could they be comparable to the new motorola g4s unless there is something radically different under the hood of these new g4's.
it must be something special to make apple go BACK to motorola.
wow.
as the apple turns for sure..........
thanks for checking in macphisto
best wishes.
Originally posted by geekmeet
very very interesting........
im guessing that there will NOT be a powermac update until the WWDC no?
why would apple release g5's based on the 90nm 970 when the 975 is right around the corner?
2.0-2.5 ghz?
its too late for that.
why not wait and blow 'em away with the 975.
that doesnt mean that the ENTIRE powermac lineup will go 975......im sure apple will mix it up.
as for the "vx" chips.........didnt you say that they "toast" the g4s?
so how could they be comparable to the new motorola g4s unless there is something radically different under the hood of these new g4's.
it must be something special to make apple go BACK to motorola.
wow.
as the apple turns for sure..........
thanks for checking in macphisto
best wishes.
They toasted the previous set of 180nm G4s - mainly due to increased cache and faster FSB support. I think the advantage will be lost based on stuff I've read of late. If the IBM chip was superior to the FreeScale chips coming, I'd think Apple would have waited for production. FreeScale has hinted at some intriguing alternatives beginning this summer.
Thing is, Moto semiconductors still has potential. Motorola management was something that helped significantly in the divisions' decline. The new plant in Crolles and the new management (and new alliances) give it good potential.
I would have checked in over the weekend, but the NFL draft was distracting
Originally posted by Henriok
No, IBMs been doing a lot of SoC designs based on their PowerPC 400 line.
Well I know about IBM doing it with the PPC 400 line (which they just sold), but I also thought MOTO was in the SOC market as well.
I thought a lot of these SOC's from both were used in the Embedded market (Not for PC's, but for other devices)
Originally posted by oldmacfan
Is not SOC a specialty of MOTO-FreeScale?
To clarify Henriok's reply: Yes, it is, notwithstanding the trouble they ran into with the 85xx series (which were mostly due to Motorola's old bugbear, dirty fabs).
IBM also does some SoC work, although they just sold all their PPC4xx-based SoC designs and the rights to them to an embedded systems vendor, and they're back to developing only the 4xx cores themselves.
The two companies have different approaches: IBM is trying highly automated, modular design, while Motorola/Freescale prefers carefully hand-tuned design.
Originally posted by Mr. MacPhisto
I would assume that FreeScale has got something big coming this summer. Amorph has tackled all this stuff better than I could - but Moto's own documents indicate a possible 2GHZ G4 with faster bus, increased cache, and better memory support. I'm not betting the farm, but if this happens then the G4 becomes a very viable chip once more. The Moto stuff I've read inicates that FreeScale thinks they can take the 74xx up to 3GHZ. Don't know anything about what's happening at FreeScale, but I do think Apple expects some chips from them that are superior to what they worked on with IBM (the VX supported up to a quad-pumped bus (4x100MHZ). However, my guess would be that we won't see these things in 'Books until September - though that's a hunch based on length of revisions. The could surprise me and revise them in the middle of the summer, right before the back-to-school season. This would be a welcome surprise - though I'm sure it'd tick off those who are buying the new laptops.
These are my thoughts too some time now for a new G4. But in any case, I don't expect anything in the Powerbooks before the new year, and I would not be surprised if the next Powerbook is again a G4 (but not the G4 we know today).
Originally posted by Amorph
To clarify Henriok's reply: Yes, it is, notwithstanding the trouble they ran into with the 85xx series (which were mostly due to Motorola's old bugbear, dirty fabs).
IBM also does some SoC work, although they just sold all their PPC4xx-based SoC designs and the rights to them to an embedded systems vendor, and they're back to developing only the 4xx cores themselves.
OK, so MOTO does do SOC's for embedded systems other than mainstream computers?
Originally posted by Mr. MacPhisto
They toasted the previous set of 180nm G4s - mainly due to increased cache and faster FSB support. I think the advantage will be lost based on stuff I've read of late. If the IBM chip was superior to the FreeScale chips coming, I'd think Apple would have waited for production. FreeScale has hinted at some intriguing alternatives beginning this summer.
Thing is, Moto semiconductors still has potential. Motorola management was something that helped significantly in the divisions' decline. The new plant in Crolles and the new management (and new alliances) give it good potential.
I would have checked in over the weekend, but the NFL draft was distracting
give us ome specifics about these "intriguing alternatives".
lets say the get the g4 to 2 ghz..........thats great but so what.
built-in memory controller/hypertansport/rapid i/o.......thats intrigue.
i remember that motorolas roadmap spoke of dual core g4's less than 25 watts at 2 ghz.
that would be amazing......
it would have to be REAL good for apple to swithc back to moto.
by the way im a raider fan and feel we have a pretty good draft.
i cant wait to see what those receivers can do.....
Originally posted by geekmeet
it would have to be REAL good for apple to swithc back to moto.
Well at this point every computer Apple sells with the exception of the top 3 Powermac models use Moto and actually the iBook line has switched to Moto from IBM G3's recently.
Originally posted by geekmeet
by the way im a raider fan and feel we have a pretty good draft.
i cant wait to see what those receivers can do.....
Go Bears
Originally posted by oldmacfan
Go Bears
I'll reserve my comments on the Raiders, Bears, etc...oh wait, I guess I won't....
Originally posted by Rhumgod
I'll reserve my comments on the Raiders, Bears, etc...oh wait, I guess I won't....
Did you mean the Pats? Those guys from Boston don't no jack about future hardware.
Intel to launch 3.6GHz P4 in June
We'll see if it's more than just a paper launch. There was speculation that the G5 could eek out ahead in the GHz field around this time frame at one point.
What ever the case as long as IBM / Apple can ship 3GHz in June, a 600 MHz gap is not bad at all, especially if it's from a 975 cpu.
Originally posted by Bigc
I assume you mean the Cal Bears
Ain't no L in Chicago, except for the elevated and the LOOP.
Originally posted by tink
Well it looks like Intel has worked out their heat problems and 90nm issues? (probably not)
Intel to launch 3.6GHz P4 in June
We'll see if it's more than just a paper launch. There was speculation that the G5 could eek out ahead in the GHz field around this time frame at one point.
What ever the case as long as IBM / Apple can ship 3GHz in June, a 600 MHz gap is not bad at all, especially if it's from a 975 cpu.
Is Intel even shipping any 90nm chips at any speed in volume yet?
Originally posted by tink
Whatever the case as long as IBM / Apple can ship 3GHz in June, a 600 MHz gap is not bad at all, especially if it's from a 975 cpu.
And dual processor...
Originally posted by Tuttle
Is Intel even shipping any 90nm chips at any speed in volume yet?
Intel is so screwed up right now, it is very hard to tell what they are shipping.
All I know is that in 12-18 months I will be able to buy a P4 socket 478 ( what ever is the last best chip for that socket) on the cheap. Then, as soon as AGP 8x-4x 256MB highend cards drop to sub $200, I will be in on those too, I will fill those empty memory banks with highly discounted DDR 400. Then I will finally buy two flat panel displays on the cheap, because I will be able to pick them up at GoodWill for $20 a pop, and the last of my pipe dream is to finally use those 18 month old SATA ports with some big brawny Hard drives. And with all that LongHorn will still crash every 45 days requiring me to completely reload to OS.
Then my kids will have an out of date piece-O-poop and still want to play on my wife's, by then, Almost seven year old iMac, it's not going anywhere.
Originally posted by tink
We'll see if it's more than just a paper launch. There was speculation that the G5 could eek out ahead in the GHz field around this time frame at one point.
Considering Intel has been at >3 GHz since last year and Steve Jobs only promised 3 GHz by this summer, I don't think anyone has ever suggested that the G5 would take the lead in clockrate. Thats not what matters though -- performance is what counts, and since the G5 can do a fair bit more work per clock cycle it doesn't need to out-clock Prescott. Prescott looks to be about the least efficient processor on the planet right now.
Originally posted by Programmer
Considering Intel has been at >3 GHz since last year and Steve Jobs only promised 3 GHz by this summer, I don't think anyone has ever suggested that the G5 would take the lead in clockrate. Thats not what matters though -- performance is what counts, and since the G5 can do a fair bit more work per clock cycle it doesn't need to out-clock Prescott. Prescott looks to be about the least efficient processor on the planet right now.
Nah... I *think* the g4 is