Is it possible that intial chips of 975 will be on the 130 nm process. This would explain the greater ability to manufacture compared to 970fx as it uses the more reliable 130 nm. I have some questions to that end. Does anyone know relative Mhz/Watt of Power 5 and Power 4 Mhz/Watt? I probably have no idea what I am talking about but it would certainly make sense, in terms of the problems they are having with the 90 nm, to develop a new chip on 130nm. The big issue as always is heat/wattage.
... Dual Opteron is possible, yes the base system may be slightly over the $1000 limit but you will still have a system that is as fast as anything Apple offers and in some ways faster. ...
Complete rubbish. You cannot build a dual-Opteron system with a DVD-R drive, 160GB hard drive, 512MB RAM, video card, and case and power supply, for $1000. I doubt you could even do it for $1300. None of the major manufacturers sell any dual Opterons for even close to $1000. PC trolls are living in la-la land. I'm so tired of hearing these moronic price comparisons. If you think you can make dual Opteron systems for $1000, go form a computer company and do so.
Complete rubbish. You cannot build a dual-Opteron system with a DVD-R drive, 160GB hard drive, 512MB RAM, video card, and case and power supply, for $1000. I doubt you could even do it for $1300. None of the major manufacturers sell any dual Opterons for even close to $1000. PC trolls are living in la-la land. I'm so tired of hearing these moronic price comparisons. If you think you can make dual Opteron systems for $1000, go form a computer company and do so.
Yah no kidding... you'd be foolish not to if you can get that kind of a system for that cheap.
Complete rubbish. You cannot build a dual-Opteron system with a DVD-R drive, 160GB hard drive, 512MB RAM, video card, and case and power supply, for $1000. I doubt you could even do it for $1300. None of the major manufacturers sell any dual Opterons for even close to $1000. PC trolls are living in la-la land. I'm so tired of hearing these moronic price comparisons. If you think you can make dual Opteron systems for $1000, go form a computer company and do so.
Pre-Tested and Setup AMD Opteron Barebones System $35.00
Cases: 100068 - NO PS - Antec SX1000 II VAR Series Mid-To _$59.00
Warranty: 800033 - Motherboard-CPU Warranty - 1 Year w/30 Da _$15.00
Case Fan: 130116 - 80mm - Thermaltake 80mm Ball Bearing DC C_$25.00
_
Subtotal for 800053 with your selected options: $950.00
_------------------------------
Order Total:
$950.00
Your totally right on AFAIAC.
This was pretty much the cheapest I could find using the cheapest possible, and worst bare bone parts I could get, and there is no HD, or Disc Drive, and obviously no graphics card. All these parts are required, and it's a totally incomplete setup.
Order Total:
$950.00
I wouldn't even want that setup.
Shipping to my house was an additional $27.00, but I left it out.
I love the PPC architecture, but I hope Apple is looking beyond multi-core PPC chips and towards something along the lines of what Sony and IBM are doing with Cell:
I configured the two as closely as possible. Note the Peecee's DVD burns at 2X the Mac's, though I wouldn't say that justifies an extra $400. Of course, I don't really know how the Radeon compares to the Quadro.
Still, pretty competitive, 'cept the Mac's a helluva lot sexier!
I think they look so much alike it's not even funny. When I first saw the G5 I thought it was a BOXX knockoff.
The Quadro is a better card, (OpenGL) but, I think the real point is that these systems are similarly priced with similar specs. (note=: other than upgradability)
froogle tells me I can get the Quadro4 for $550, and that a Radeon with two digital outputs goes for ~$350.
So, when you need a $3k+ workstation, the problem is about some 200 bucks? Come on, guys, you are going to spend a few kilobucks on software, too. And if you are working as a professional and time is money, you also need some qualified tech support. So it's no longer the question of those 200 bucks. <aside>Who said PowerMacs are too expensive?</aside>
I configured the two as closely as possible. Note the Peecee's DVD burns at 2X the Mac's, though I wouldn't say that justifies an extra $400. Of course, I don't really know how the Radeon compares to the Quadro.
Just FYI, the latest PowerMacs also ship with the 8x drive. Silent upgrade, was on xlr8yourmac.
Complete rubbish. You cannot build a dual-Opteron system with a DVD-R drive, 160GB hard drive, 512MB RAM, video card, and case and power supply, for $1000. I doubt you could even do it for $1300. None of the major manufacturers sell any dual Opterons for even close to $1000. PC trolls are living in la-la land. I'm so tired of hearing these moronic price comparisons. If you think you can make dual Opteron systems for $1000, go form a computer company and do so.
This is what I came up with:
MSI "K8T Master2-FAR" RETAIL - $205
OPTERON 242 Retail Box. ($216 x 2) - $432.00
Maxtor 160GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive - $92.00
Lite-On CD/DVD-RW/+RW Drive - $79.00
Samsung 512MB PC3200 Ram - $80
Antec Soho File Server SX1040B Black 400W - $80.00
GeForce FX 5200 64MB DDR 64MB AGP - $60.00
Flopy drive - $8.00
Total = $1036.00
A few things: one, I am very tired of people making statements about computer pricing without ever bothering to look at the component cost of computers. I'm sorry if it upsets you that a person can build extremely powerful PCs for a fraction of the cost of a Powermac, but it is a fact that we all have to live with.
That being said, I will repeat something that I have stated dozens of times before: The pricing of Apple computers should be compared to the systems of other computer manifactures, such as Dell or IBM -- not to the cost of a home built computer.
The large PC makers are Apples competition, not the hobbyist who likes to cobble together PCs in his living room. Home built systems are still such a small fraction of the market that they are irrelevant to the pricing of the big computer makers.
Of course, it is very unfortunate that, when compared to the PCs made by Dell and other large computer makers, most of Apple's current products are extremely underpowered and/or overpriced. Something that was not true a few years ago, and I hope will be remedied with the next revision or two as the G5 scales up and moves throughout the lineup.
One thing that does worry me a bit is the recent Apple trend of putting its slowest G5 in the single processor machines. Every other manufacture has the fastest chip available in their single processor machines, so when you compare the top single processor Mac to a PC the Mac gets slaughtered.
That's what I don't like about the Trinity rumor: a single 2.2GHz G5 is just not going to cut it against 3.4GHz P4 extreams. Now a 3GHz G5 should just crush the top P4s -- and that is something I would really like to see.
I knew there was reason I didn't hang out much around here anymore.
This thread starts off with a great rumor on 3GHz PMs at WWDC, that is subsequently "confirmed" by an apparently intelligent and sincere source and then you f*cktards have got to screw it up with your inane postings on the cost of floppy drives.
Let us look at what apple needs for the market place not pie in the sky wishes. This is where I think Apple should be after WWDC.
consumer or education machines
eMac
1-1.2ghz G5 970fx
17" CRT
100-120 GB hard drive
4X DVD-R
fire wire 400 1 port
800 1 port
USB 2.0 2 ports 1 in front
headset connection 1 in front
10/100 ethernet
512/2GB of RAM ship/max
Pricing $699-999.
iMac
17& 20" monitors
1.5-2.0 GHz G5 970FX
120-200 GB Hard Drive
4X DVD-R
fire wire 400 1 port
800 2 ports 1 in front (for cameras, iPod etc)
USB 2.0 2 ports 1 in front
headset connection 1 in front
10/100/1000 ethernet
512/2GB of RAM ship/max
pricing $1099-1499
Semi-Professional and Professional
New unit type
2.0-3.0 GHZ 975
PCIExpress slots 2 1 for Video card
1 hard drive 200-300MB
2nd slot for internal had drive Both SATA
4X DVD-R
fire wire 400 1 port
800 2 ports 1 in front (for cameras, iPod etc)
USB 2.0 2 ports 1 in front
headset connection 1 in front
1/6GB of RAM ship/max
10/100/1000 ethernet
(one of the major problems with the Cube was that it was amed at the Semi-Pro but had no expansion capability)
This could be between 1-3 models
Pricing $1299-1899
Tower
2.6-3.0 Dual G5 975
7 PCI Express slots 1 for the Video card
1 hard drive 200-300MB
3nd slot for internal had drive All SATA
12X DVD-R-RW/+R+RW--Dual layer
2 additional slots for for externally accessible slots
fire wire 400 1 port
800 2 ports 1 in front (for cameras, iPod etc)
USB 2.0 2 ports 1 in front
headset connection 1 in front
10/100/1000/10000 ethernet
1/16GB of RAM ship/max
I am not going to go in to the portables as this post is already too long.
The reason that I am proposing the new format is that apple now makes 3 versions for their Pro line, and the bottom one never sells so they have to cut the price in special promotion to developers or other internal groups. The new format will stop this bleeding but still gives those who need power but not Maximum Power in a smaller format and a lower price.
I keep both the eMac & the iMac for both price point and the compact, style and ease of setup that many non-techies want.
I think there can, and should be overlap here, just as there is in most of the other products. Apple has admitted that the "sweet spot" for the iMac is $999, and they need to get there with the model. This is a psychological berrior that marketing has known about and uses all the time, that is why the iMac is $1299 and not $1300. $999 is under one thousand, $1099 is not. That $100 difference will get more people to look at the iMac, even if they end up buying a more expensive one.
Comments
Originally posted by The Placid Casual
Yep, the cube was Trinity. Highly doubtful they would reuse the same codename for a different project...
Read Apple Confidential 2.0. It has a lot of dirt on codenames, and one of the points it makes is that Apple wants to confuse you!
Originally posted by wizard69
... Dual Opteron is possible, yes the base system may be slightly over the $1000 limit but you will still have a system that is as fast as anything Apple offers and in some ways faster. ...
Complete rubbish. You cannot build a dual-Opteron system with a DVD-R drive, 160GB hard drive, 512MB RAM, video card, and case and power supply, for $1000. I doubt you could even do it for $1300. None of the major manufacturers sell any dual Opterons for even close to $1000. PC trolls are living in la-la land. I'm so tired of hearing these moronic price comparisons. If you think you can make dual Opteron systems for $1000, go form a computer company and do so.
Originally posted by cubist
Complete rubbish. You cannot build a dual-Opteron system with a DVD-R drive, 160GB hard drive, 512MB RAM, video card, and case and power supply, for $1000. I doubt you could even do it for $1300. None of the major manufacturers sell any dual Opterons for even close to $1000. PC trolls are living in la-la land. I'm so tired of hearing these moronic price comparisons. If you think you can make dual Opteron systems for $1000, go form a computer company and do so.
Yah no kidding... you'd be foolish not to if you can get that kind of a system for that cheap.
Originally posted by cubist
Complete rubbish. You cannot build a dual-Opteron system with a DVD-R drive, 160GB hard drive, 512MB RAM, video card, and case and power supply, for $1000. I doubt you could even do it for $1300. None of the major manufacturers sell any dual Opterons for even close to $1000. PC trolls are living in la-la land. I'm so tired of hearing these moronic price comparisons. If you think you can make dual Opteron systems for $1000, go form a computer company and do so.
_
_------------------------------
$950.00
Your totally right on AFAIAC.
This was pretty much the cheapest I could find using the cheapest possible, and worst bare bone parts I could get, and there is no HD, or Disc Drive, and obviously no graphics card. All these parts are required, and it's a totally incomplete setup.
Order Total:
$950.00
I wouldn't even want that setup.
Shipping to my house was an additional $27.00, but I left it out.
For everything else, there's MasterCard.
MSI Dual 940 Mobo- 250
2x Opt 242 processor -450 (225 each)
DVD Brnr- $100
160 SATA - $100
9600 Pro- $150
Keyb/mouse- $50
Wavemaster case- $150
Windows OEM - $ 85
Total $ $ 1335 No Firewire or HT links. No PCI-X
Now don't get me wrong that's a nice little system there but you are rolling it on your own so Tech Support is flaky at best.
Hell I forgot about extra fans and the like.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content...e=dev&aid=3451
I can't wait to get my hands on a PS3 devkit.
Originally posted by Programmer
The feeling that you should have bought a Mac... priceless
For everything else, there's MasterCard.
Power Mac G5
? Dual 2.0 GHz G5s
? 1GB RAM (DDR400)
? 250GB SATA (7200 RPM)
? Superdrive (4X DVD-R)
? Radeon 9800 Pro (128MB, 8X AGP)
?????
$3,574.00
BOXX 7106
? Dual 2.0 GHz Opteron (Model 246)
? 1GB RAM (DDR400)
? 250GB SATA (7200 RPM)
? DVD Burner (8X DVD-R)
? Quadro4 980 XGL (128MB, 8X AGP)
?????
$3,962.00
I configured the two as closely as possible. Note the Peecee's DVD burns at 2X the Mac's, though I wouldn't say that justifies an extra $400. Of course, I don't really know how the Radeon compares to the Quadro.
Still, pretty competitive, 'cept the Mac's a helluva lot sexier!
Cheers.
cept the Mac's a helluva lot sexier!
I think they look so much alike it's not even funny. When I first saw the G5 I thought it was a BOXX knockoff.
The Quadro is a better card, (OpenGL) but, I think the real point is that these systems are similarly priced with similar specs. (note=: other than upgradability)
Originally posted by Concord
Uh... dglow, you do realize you're also comparing a $200 video card with like, a ~$900 card, right?
Cheers.
Uh... actually, I didn't. Which is why I said so in my post.
froogle tells me I can get the Quadro4 for $550, and that a Radeon with two digital outputs goes for ~$350.
Originally posted by dglow
froogle tells me I can get the Quadro4 for $550, and that a Radeon with two digital outputs goes for ~$350.
So, when you need a $3k+ workstation, the problem is about some 200 bucks? Come on, guys, you are going to spend a few kilobucks on software, too. And if you are working as a professional and time is money, you also need some qualified tech support. So it's no longer the question of those 200 bucks. <aside>Who said PowerMacs are too expensive?</aside>
I configured the two as closely as possible. Note the Peecee's DVD burns at 2X the Mac's, though I wouldn't say that justifies an extra $400. Of course, I don't really know how the Radeon compares to the Quadro.
Just FYI, the latest PowerMacs also ship with the 8x drive. Silent upgrade, was on xlr8yourmac.
Originally posted by cubist
Complete rubbish. You cannot build a dual-Opteron system with a DVD-R drive, 160GB hard drive, 512MB RAM, video card, and case and power supply, for $1000. I doubt you could even do it for $1300. None of the major manufacturers sell any dual Opterons for even close to $1000. PC trolls are living in la-la land. I'm so tired of hearing these moronic price comparisons. If you think you can make dual Opteron systems for $1000, go form a computer company and do so.
This is what I came up with:
MSI "K8T Master2-FAR" RETAIL - $205
OPTERON 242 Retail Box. ($216 x 2) - $432.00
Maxtor 160GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive - $92.00
Lite-On CD/DVD-RW/+RW Drive - $79.00
Samsung 512MB PC3200 Ram - $80
Antec Soho File Server SX1040B Black 400W - $80.00
GeForce FX 5200 64MB DDR 64MB AGP - $60.00
Flopy drive - $8.00
Total = $1036.00
A few things: one, I am very tired of people making statements about computer pricing without ever bothering to look at the component cost of computers. I'm sorry if it upsets you that a person can build extremely powerful PCs for a fraction of the cost of a Powermac, but it is a fact that we all have to live with.
That being said, I will repeat something that I have stated dozens of times before: The pricing of Apple computers should be compared to the systems of other computer manifactures, such as Dell or IBM -- not to the cost of a home built computer.
The large PC makers are Apples competition, not the hobbyist who likes to cobble together PCs in his living room. Home built systems are still such a small fraction of the market that they are irrelevant to the pricing of the big computer makers.
Of course, it is very unfortunate that, when compared to the PCs made by Dell and other large computer makers, most of Apple's current products are extremely underpowered and/or overpriced. Something that was not true a few years ago, and I hope will be remedied with the next revision or two as the G5 scales up and moves throughout the lineup.
One thing that does worry me a bit is the recent Apple trend of putting its slowest G5 in the single processor machines. Every other manufacture has the fastest chip available in their single processor machines, so when you compare the top single processor Mac to a PC the Mac gets slaughtered.
That's what I don't like about the Trinity rumor: a single 2.2GHz G5 is just not going to cut it against 3.4GHz P4 extreams. Now a 3GHz G5 should just crush the top P4s -- and that is something I would really like to see.
This thread starts off with a great rumor on 3GHz PMs at WWDC, that is subsequently "confirmed" by an apparently intelligent and sincere source and then you f*cktards have got to screw it up with your inane postings on the cost of floppy drives.
consumer or education machines
eMac
1-1.2ghz G5 970fx
17" CRT
100-120 GB hard drive
4X DVD-R
fire wire 400 1 port
800 1 port
USB 2.0 2 ports 1 in front
headset connection 1 in front
10/100 ethernet
512/2GB of RAM ship/max
Pricing $699-999.
iMac
17& 20" monitors
1.5-2.0 GHz G5 970FX
120-200 GB Hard Drive
4X DVD-R
fire wire 400 1 port
800 2 ports 1 in front (for cameras, iPod etc)
USB 2.0 2 ports 1 in front
headset connection 1 in front
10/100/1000 ethernet
512/2GB of RAM ship/max
pricing $1099-1499
Semi-Professional and Professional
New unit type
2.0-3.0 GHZ 975
PCIExpress slots 2 1 for Video card
1 hard drive 200-300MB
2nd slot for internal had drive Both SATA
4X DVD-R
fire wire 400 1 port
800 2 ports 1 in front (for cameras, iPod etc)
USB 2.0 2 ports 1 in front
headset connection 1 in front
1/6GB of RAM ship/max
10/100/1000 ethernet
(one of the major problems with the Cube was that it was amed at the Semi-Pro but had no expansion capability)
This could be between 1-3 models
Pricing $1299-1899
Tower
2.6-3.0 Dual G5 975
7 PCI Express slots 1 for the Video card
1 hard drive 200-300MB
3nd slot for internal had drive All SATA
12X DVD-R-RW/+R+RW--Dual layer
2 additional slots for for externally accessible slots
fire wire 400 1 port
800 2 ports 1 in front (for cameras, iPod etc)
USB 2.0 2 ports 1 in front
headset connection 1 in front
10/100/1000/10000 ethernet
1/16GB of RAM ship/max
I am not going to go in to the portables as this post is already too long.
The reason that I am proposing the new format is that apple now makes 3 versions for their Pro line, and the bottom one never sells so they have to cut the price in special promotion to developers or other internal groups. The new format will stop this bleeding but still gives those who need power but not Maximum Power in a smaller format and a lower price.
I keep both the eMac & the iMac for both price point and the compact, style and ease of setup that many non-techies want.
What do you think of my suggestion?
Please be specific.
Originally posted by REM#1
eMac
1-1.2ghz G5 970fx
17" CRT
100-120 GB hard drive
4X DVD-R
fire wire 400 1 port
800 1 port
USB 2.0 2 ports 1 in front
headset connection 1 in front
10/100 ethernet
512/2GB of RAM ship/max
Pricing $699-999.
iMac
17& 20" monitors
1.5-2.0 GHz G5 970FX
120-200 GB Hard Drive
4X DVD-R
fire wire 400 1 port
800 2 ports 1 in front (for cameras, iPod etc)
USB 2.0 2 ports 1 in front
headset connection 1 in front
10/100/1000 ethernet
512/2GB of RAM ship/max
pricing $1099-1499
I think there can, and should be overlap here, just as there is in most of the other products. Apple has admitted that the "sweet spot" for the iMac is $999, and they need to get there with the model. This is a psychological berrior that marketing has known about and uses all the time, that is why the iMac is $1299 and not $1300. $999 is under one thousand, $1099 is not. That $100 difference will get more people to look at the iMac, even if they end up buying a more expensive one.