Should Apple open up iTunes? MS to introduce $50 player

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
Doesn't MS get tired of just following everything Apple does?



http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/.../27/microsoft/



Is this a threat to the iPod? Would something like this influence Apple to open up iTunes (so that songs could be used in any media player)?



This doesn't look good for the iPod (based on MS track record of completely decimating competitors, the list is too long).
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 25
    messiahtoshmessiahtosh Posts: 1,754member
    This news may be beneficial afterall, it might help reduce iPod prices. I still think MS just waits to see what the next big thing is, once it becomes apparent, they throw all their resources behind a copy-cat initiative to capitalize on the work of others. It is unfair, but it does drive competition (sometimes out of business) to produce cheaper and better products.



    Hopefully, their player will suck.
  • Reply 2 of 25
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,119member
    This is worse than merely following Apple. This is MS once again abusing it's monopoly power by undercutting the market to gain traction.



    There is no way MS can make a HD player equivalent to even the ipod mini for $50. This has anti trust written all over it. It frankly doesn't matter whether Apple should open up the format.
  • Reply 3 of 25
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    Absolutely classic, textbook FUD.



    I'll believe it when I see it. And I believe it'll be a threat to iTMS when MS figures out that one really good choice is better than a dozen crap choices - not to mention, when consumers figure out that the "choices" are just different skins on the same store, with the same selection and the same (uneven, and often intrusive) restrictions and the same poor encoding.



    Until something materializes, all we have is a pressrelease promising the moon and the stars and a rose garden Real Soon Now(TM) -- pure FUD, signifying nothing.
  • Reply 4 of 25
    messiahtoshmessiahtosh Posts: 1,754member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    This is worse than merely following Apple. This is MS once again abusing it's monopoly power by undercutting the market to gain traction.



    There is no way MS can make a HD player equivalent to even the ipod mini for $50. This has anti trust written all over it. It frankly doesn't matter whether Apple should open up the format.




    I agree. I was thinking, "how is it possible to produce and sell an MP3 player with the look and feel of the iPod for $50 and still make a profit?"



    The key is, they wont be making a profit. M$ will simply take losses out of their ginormous cash heap and take the market along with it. Totally BS.
  • Reply 5 of 25
    nerudaneruda Posts: 426member
    Yes, competition is good, especially if, as you mentioned, this reduces the prices of the iPod. The problem is that Microsoft?s idea of competition is not to compete but to get rid of it all together. I don?t see how this will not adversely affect iPod sales (see below).



    Quote:

    Originally posted by Messiahtosh

    I agree. I was thinking, "how is it possible to produce and sell an MP3 player with the look and feel of the iPod for $50 and still make a profit?"



    The key is, they wont be making a profit. M$ will simply take losses out of their ginormous cash heap and take the market along with it. Totally BS.




    How much money does MS lose on each X-box? Yes, it is good that prices for the Nintendo Cube and PS2 have significantly gone down because of this, but not if it drives the other game console makers out of the market.



    Amorph: Maybe this player won't cost $50 dollars, but do you doubt that if MS enters the market they won't use all of their vast resources (unrelated to music market) to completely upseat the iPod/iTunes?
  • Reply 6 of 25
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Neruda

    Yes, competition is good, especially if, as you mentioned, this reduces the prices of the iPod. The problem is that Microsoft?s idea of competition is not to compete but to get rid of it all together. I don?t see how this will not adversely affect iPod sales (see below).



    Whether it will or not depends on a great deal of information that we don't have. The genius lies not in the idea, but in the execution of the idea. All we have to work with right now is FUD. And FUD requires a lack of detail. What MS is saying is "our success is inevitable, because we're so big." But MS has fallen on its face before.



    Quote:

    Amorph: Maybe this player won't cost $50 dollars, but do you doubt that if MS enters the market they won't use all of their vast resources (unrelated to music market) to completely upseat the iPod/iTunes?



    First, I'm not sure that they will. MS hasn't had to bet the farm in years, and I doubt they'll try now.



    Second, it really doesn't matter. Look at how much Intel and HP spent on Itanium - 10 years, tens of billions of dollars - and look how well that did (it's not a problem with the VLIW philosophy they chose, either: Transmeta and IBM and ARM have adapted VLIW methodologies cheaply and successfully). It's perfectly possible for a company to get full of itself, to lose sight of why people buy products, to generally miss the point, and once they're there money only aggravates the problem. Another example: Sony's music store. How big is Sony? How many resources can they bring to bear on a music store and player? And how sucky does their effort have to be to be slammed by industry teddy bear David Pogue?!



    MS has this quaint idea that "better" means "more features" and "more options". This idea is antithetical to ergonomics and to industrial design generally: It's more like the tack taken by cheap stereo components which "compete" on the number of poorly implemented, gee-whiz gizmos cluttering up the faceplate, rather than their ability to perform the basic function(s) required of them. They've also taken the cheap way out with music stores by licensing someone else's back end (heh) and giving it away - so the number of choices available is far less than the number of "choices." That hasn't gotten anyone anywhere, and there's no sign that it ever will.



    Now, maybe their music team will demonstrate a level of focus unprecendented from Microsoft. There's another problem: The content industries don't trust MS at all. Apple is a known and trusted and admired company at all levels of the music industry. Steve can strike deals on his terms because the various people in the industry trust his motives and his ability to turn out quality stuff and market the hell out of it. MS' love of control is well known at this point, and nobody wants to grant them too much influence. Because of that, MS has to accept stricter and less consistent DRM, which helps translate to poorer sales.



    The bottom line is, this is FUD. FUD involves a dominant company promising the moon and the stars at some later date in order to depress sales of a popular item from a smaller company. The moon and the stars never materialize as promised. The goal here is to fill people with enough fear, uncertainty and doubt to hold off buying someone else's product. With any luck, by the time you release yours, the damage has been done and it doesn't matter whether your product is actually better. The purest FUD campaigns never result in a product release at all; the competitor's product fails, and that's that.

  • Reply 7 of 25
    messiahtoshmessiahtosh Posts: 1,754member
    Looking at this objectively, it just seems like MS is grasping at anything they can to steer attention to themselves instead of Apple or anyone else. It's so messed up that a company as wealthy as MS is unable to compete with Apple, feature for feature, design to design, because they just do not get it. They have to SAY they WILL sell a player for $50 to "win" this round of "the next big thing."



    Maybe MS should gamble on a vision and develop something new, market it and actually back it up with services and features, instead of copying that formula from a more creative and innovative company? I guess they just are not good enough.



    Remember Steve's character in Pirates of Silicone Valley, "We're better than you are." Bill Gates responds, "You dont get it, that doesnt matter."



    Maybe it doesnt. I wish it did. I hope it does.



    It is possible that Apple has gotten so far ahead of the "competition" at this point that the complete FUD that MS wants to spread is worthless, and I think it is. Apple may be cemented as the new Sony for this decade at least. We will know a lot more as time unravels the truths, new products, and sales numbers of Apple's iPod.



    I know where I stand, and I am on the majority side this time, Apple is music right now. MS wishes they were.
  • Reply 8 of 25
    jwri004jwri004 Posts: 626member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Neruda

    How much money does MS lose on each X-box? Yes, it is good that prices for the Nintendo Cube and PS2 have significantly gone down because of this, but not if it drives the other game console makers out of the market.



    Game consoles have always been a loss leader. It is the games where the companies make the money. Unless there is a complimentary revenue stream, the losses will need to be minimal for M$ to enter the party.
  • Reply 9 of 25
    satchmosatchmo Posts: 2,699member
    As others have pointed out, a $50 device is probably unlikely to be comparable in quality to any iPod. I'll guess they'll come out with some flashed based device between $50-100. Of course this is only possible if MS is willing to eat some of their costs.



    But,I'm willing to bet a newly priced 2gb and 4gb iPod minis priced at $149 and $199 respectively, would still hold their against any crappy hardware from MS.
  • Reply 10 of 25
    aquaticaquatic Posts: 5,602member
    Quote:

    Looking at this objectively, it just seems like MS is grasping at anything they can to steer attention to themselves instead of Apple or anyone else. It's so messed up that a company as wealthy as MS is unable to compete with Apple, feature for feature, design to design, because they just do not get it. They have to SAY they WILL sell a player for $50 to "win" this round of "the next big thing."



    Maybe MS should gamble on a vision and develop something new, market it and actually back it up with services and features, instead of copying that formula from a more creative and innovative company? I guess they just are not good enough.



    Remember Steve's character in Pirates of Silicone Valley, "We're better than you are." Bill Gates responds, "You dont get it, that doesnt matter."



    Maybe it doesnt. I wish it did. I hope it does.



    It is possible that Apple has gotten so far ahead of the "competition" at this point that the complete FUD that MS wants to spread is worthless, and I think it is. Apple may be cemented as the new Sony for this decade at least. We will know a lot more as time unravels the truths, new products, and sales numbers of Apple's iPod.



    I know where I stand, and I am on the majority side this time, Apple is music right now. MS wishes they were.



    Great post. I agree with your first sentence!! They are real nervous that no one cares what they do anymore. Sure everyone buys their stuff but they might not be in on the next Big Thing. Which looks to be the iPod/iTMS and Apple "porting" Hollywood the digital age and the Internet. I can see them being the new Blockbuster online. They should really be split up so they can't pull this crap. Windoze Media is going to be a big deal and could start causing some real problems for Apple if they want to be the online Blockbuster for Hollywood.
  • Reply 11 of 25
    aquaticaquatic Posts: 5,602member
    And they patented that. Go ahead put MS back in court!! This is different then that stupid suit where they paid off Apple so they could rip off their entire System 7 GUI to make Windows 95.
  • Reply 12 of 25
    whisperwhisper Posts: 735member
    Heh, I almost hope MS does come out with "an iPod for $50", because I could really use the 90% discount on all those tiny hard drives.
  • Reply 13 of 25
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,119member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Whisper

    Heh, I almost hope MS does come out with "an iPod for $50", because I could really use the 90% discount on all those tiny hard drives.



    No doubt. If they sell a HD based device for anything less than $100 watch Ebay skyrocket with these drives. By all means go ahead and make us rich MS!
  • Reply 14 of 25
    thunderpoitthunderpoit Posts: 709member
    bah, they'll probably have the firmware fixed so that it would only work in the mspod
  • Reply 15 of 25
    thunderpoitthunderpoit Posts: 709member
    OMG, i got a prerelease photo of this thing, apple better look out!!!







  • Reply 16 of 25
    nerudaneruda Posts: 426member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ThunderPoit

    OMG, i got a prerelease photo of this thing, apple better look out!!!











    This is the 1.0 version! By version 3.0 it will a) look exactly like the iPod and cost 1/2 the price b) have 10,000 viruses writen for it.
  • Reply 17 of 25
    paulpaul Posts: 5,278member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Whisper

    Heh, I almost hope MS does come out with "an iPod for $50", because I could really use the 90% discount on all those tiny hard drives.



    what would happen (besides bad press) if apple bought like 600,000 of the $50 mspods and re-used the hard drive in their own products?



    (this is assuming that the price of the mspod is cheaper then apple can get for just the drive straight from the manuf...)
  • Reply 18 of 25
    messiahtoshmessiahtosh Posts: 1,754member
    Simply put, MS will spend and spend until they win or until they are sued and then drag out legal action for years, effectively continuing to monopolize in the meantime. That's it.



    Apple will do what it has always done, innovate, do the best they can, and log profits from the sales of tremendously designed products (inside and out. That's it.
  • Reply 19 of 25
    airslufairsluf Posts: 1,861member
    Kickaha and Amorph couldn't moderate themselves out of a paper bag. Abdicate responsibility and succumb to idiocy. Two years of letting a member make personal attacks against others, then stepping aside when someone won't put up with it. Not only that but go ahead and shut down my posting priviledges but not the one making the attacks. Not even the common decency to abide by their warning (afer three days of absorbing personal attacks with no mods in sight), just shut my posting down and then say it might happen later if a certian line is crossed. Bullshit flag is flying, I won't abide by lying and coddling of liars who go off-site, create accounts differing in a single letter from my handle with the express purpose to decieve and then claim here that I did it. Everyone be warned, kim kap sol is a lying, deceitful poster.



    Now I guess they should have banned me rather than just shut off posting priviledges, because kickaha and Amorph definitely aren't going to like being called to task when they thought they had it all ignored *cough* *cough* I mean under control. Just a couple o' tools.



    Don't worry, as soon as my work resetting my posts is done I'll disappear forever.
  • Reply 20 of 25
    aquaticaquatic Posts: 5,602member
    Yeah what AirSlut said! I mean AirSluf! Hehe I just wanted to say that. OK I'm done!
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