The end of the pda draws more nigh?

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
I have had a Visor for years and I use it in many ways that can not be replicated by a cellphone. I initially wanted an Apple/Palm or just Apple pda, but also saw the writing on the wall. Yet hope remained for Apple to do something to reinvent the market.



Now if Sony leaves the Palm pda market, the end is probably really here:

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2004/06/02/clie/



I guess the neighsayers were correct and the market has come and gone. This may allow the iPod to be the "whatever your phone can't do" device that picks up old Palm customers.



I would still like a pocket device that can manage money and do some graphical stuff beyond the 2" greyscale.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 22
    dobbydobby Posts: 796member
    Mobiles have increasingly more PDA funtionallity and PDA still don't have voice communication funtionality. I don't see a point in having one of those iPaq wank things when a Sony Ericson P800a does the same (apart from the Windows shit).



    I loved my Psion 3a and 5.



    Dobby.
  • Reply 2 of 22
    addisonaddison Posts: 1,185member
    Forget the Sony go and look at the Treo 600, you get the best of both worlds.
  • Reply 3 of 22
    ~ufo~~ufo~ Posts: 245member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Addison

    Forget the Sony go and look at the Treo 600, you get the best of both worlds.



    oh help me jebus.



    you should check out the quicktime about that phone on their site....

    it's so horrible. I love how in american advertisements it seems normal to just stress RANDOM words and SYLlables withIN a sentence JUST to make it SOUND more INteresting. ISn't that aMAzing ? ? ? ?



    clicketh hither





    oh and on the device itself....... it would be a too elaborate affair for me personally. I'll just keep hoping apple will add GSM and GPS to their iPods and I'll be one happy camper!
  • Reply 4 of 22
    nijiniji Posts: 288member
    this thread is great.



    convergence.



    call them smart phones, or, mobiles with so many functions. the size of the preferred hardware device itself depends on the market (mobiles on steriods for asia; wireless pdas for usa). steve jobs called it correctly years back when he began to tell the world that there is no need for an apple mobile. he was right.



    however, an iPod with bluetooth; airport; and a wcdma and gsm triband dual mode wireless receiver in it could be sold around the world (even in japan now). it is essentially a mobile storage device for use by grandmothers to show pics of their grandchildren to the next door neighbor via the colour lcd screen on it; for businessmen to recieve Word attachments via email; and for people to play iTunes on their airport enabled home stereo speakers, and to see iPhoto on their television, all controlled via the iPod. hook it up with .mac for syncing on other machines.



    i want this in july.
  • Reply 5 of 22
    tkntkn Posts: 224member
    I would argue the opposite. Sony's exit marks the true success of the PDA as a commodity with razor-thin margins and the only way out is to find out how to shave money off the price or innovate to a higher price. Combined with Sony's too aggressive innovation in the field, spending too much money trying to establish a high end that wasn't there, they decided to step out rather than compete in the mid-range where profits are lower. I imagine their sale numbers for a $599 Palm were not very high.



    Frankly, from a consumer perspective, this is where you want a product to be.
  • Reply 6 of 22
    kidredkidred Posts: 2,402member
    Well let's look at PDAs. I had one, sold it on eBay a month later. It does a few things, nut all can be done on your computer. It stores names, addresses, notes, and other info that can be downloaded to a phone. The only real good is as a transport between home and office. But hell, I can just email something home.



    So, what few other features can it do that email, current computer and current mobile phone can't?
  • Reply 7 of 22
    existenceexistence Posts: 991member
    I think the end of Palm draws more nigh. They continue to lose marketshare because their technology is so behind pocketPC. Pocket PC is alive and well. Dell introduced some new models last month with new Intel processors up to 624MHz and a new version of Pocket Windows.
  • Reply 8 of 22
    ~ufo~~ufo~ Posts: 245member
    to quote a friend of mine: "what's wrong with agendas? I've had one for twenty years and it works flawlessly."
  • Reply 9 of 22
    addisonaddison Posts: 1,185member
    I gave up carrying my Palm Pilot. It was just too much to carry both a phone and a Palm but the Treo 600 has transformed my life. It integrates with iSync and the Mac perfectly and to have all my contacts in sync is just brilliant. It is just so useful to have a .mac account and modify an address at the office, add a contact at home and then when I Hot-sync all these changes are reflected on my phone.



    I am not in the least bit surprised Sony has pulled out, I think they made a huge mistake with their P800/900 they should have put the Palm OS on that, they were going in two differing directions at the same time which had to be a waste of resources.



    Convergence is what this is all about and frankly it is about time. I would like to see Sony change to the Palm OS, they did a really good job with their PDA's and I am sure they could do a better job than handspring. There are two unforgivable problems with the Treo, it has a 160x160 resolution which is inexcusable and does not have bluetooth, which is inconvenient. I expect both of these issue to be resolved in the near future, but I am amazed that they did not just get is right this time. However, despite what I have just said I still think it is the best mobile on the market right now.
  • Reply 10 of 22
    jadejade Posts: 379member
    I was a hardcore PDA user (pre cell phone) because i would carry all of my address book. And well then there were just too many gadgets to fit in my purse (and you guys know how your pocket gets stuffed). So know I am down to my ipod and cell phone. For people like me, agendas are too big, and I hate buying a new phone and transferring all of the phone numbers. And well I wish my phone would isync, and be easier to enter in email addresses. Once that is licked in a COMPACT package, my PDA will go where it belongs...not collecting dust on my desk. Oh well.
  • Reply 11 of 22
    macgregormacgregor Posts: 1,434member
    Obviously Jobs like the Treo and Apple won't do the pda, which we already knew, but it is nice to 'know" that they were working on one.



    I don't like thumb keyboards...graffitti actually is good enough for me.
  • Reply 12 of 22
    mmmpiemmmpie Posts: 628member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by TKN

    I would argue the opposite. Sony's exit marks the true success of the PDA as a commodity with razor-thin margins and the only way out is to find out how to shave money off the price or innovate to a higher price.



    I agree that it may indicate that the market is going commodity.



    Quote:



    Combined with Sony's too aggressive innovation in the field, spending too much money trying to establish a high end that wasn't there, they decided to step out rather than compete in the mid-range where profits are lower. I imagine their sale numbers for a $599 Palm were not very high.




    But its not that Sony's margins were razor thin, rather that their products failed to compete with the other PDAs sitting on the shelf next to them. Sony's top of the line PDA costs 599, and technologicaly doesnt compare particularly well to the Pocket PCs selling next to it for 399.



    Quite simply, Sony priced themselves out of the market. In fact, they are the opposite of what you say. Rather than aggressive innovation, they failed to innovate at all. There is certainly a coolness to the Clies that fold in half with a hidden keyboard underneath. But its easy to get a keyboard on any PDA, and all of that extra mechanism costs the Clie in size.



    The hi-res displays certainly were cool for a Palm, but thats old hat now days, and Pocket PCs are better.



    What else? Cheap cameras? I can buy a USB webcam ( 640x480 ) for $20, why does it add $100 to the price of a Clie?



    Compare with the iPod. It is certainly more expensive than its competitiors, you can get an mp3 player for well under $100. But it provides a much better user experience. Vastly better. So much better that Apple cant make enough of them. On top of that, Apple continues to add features that expand its appeal in a way that doesnt interfere with its basic function. And, for some reason, Apple's competitors _still_ havent managed to do anything that can live up to the iPod's standards.

    In contrast, Sony has introduced very few features which arent available in either another Palm, or a Pocket PC. MP3 player? People want iPods. Mobile Video? Buy a huge memory card, and it still sucks. The only feature that Sony had that I wanted was the 320x320 screen, and Pocket PCs are better now.

    Without a doubt, Clies are nice products, but nice isnt enough to charge 50% more for.



    Compare with Macintosh. Well, its more expensive than its competitors, and its slowly losing ground to them. Why? For the same reasons that Clies dont sell well. They are a nice product. But in the end they arent nice enough to make up for the _perceived_ price difference.
  • Reply 13 of 22
    Well, there are the niche markets like medicine. I use my Palm all the time to look up treatment protocols, drug dosages, etc. It would be virtually impossible to carry all the actual medical books and references that I can cram into a PDA.







    Quote:

    Originally posted by KidRed

    Well let's look at PDAs. I had one, sold it on eBay a month later. It does a few things, nut all can be done on your computer. It stores names, addresses, notes, and other info that can be downloaded to a phone. The only real good is as a transport between home and office. But hell, I can just email something home.



    So, what few other features can it do that email, current computer and current mobile phone can't?




  • Reply 14 of 22
    tommy16tommy16 Posts: 8member
    It wouldn't be impossibe to bring out a PDA for Apple. The main prohibitive issues are 3 things. (1) Price compared to the competitors. (2) Jobs' promise that they would be a one OS company unlike their competition. (3) Due to using a full OS you end up jamming alot of unnecessary software onto a larger than needed drive to give very little usefullness/value to the consumer unless the consumer plugs into a full keyboard or a full size screen.



    A PDA is definitely coming it is just a matter of the right price point and usefullness. If brought out now it would have some iPod like limited OS or a full blown version of OSX which would make it fairly useless unless plugged into accessories or a visor/monitor headset which would allow full screen access to OSX without the need to carry around a full screen. Try reducing your own computer down to 240 x 320 and see how useful it is. Notes, scribbles, pictures, etc... are fine but you are talking about another OS and not OSX.



  • Reply 15 of 22
    Those of you who say PocketPCs are ahead of Palms are right and wrong at the same time.



    The overhead of running WindowsCE is much higher than PalmOS... which means that a PocketPC much be "Faster" compared to a Palm to get comparable performance.



    Take a look at the Tapwave Zodiac and then tell me you think that PocketPCs are better than Palms.



    It used to be the case that PocketPCs had the ability to do many more things that Palms because of their color screens and their high end processors. But now with PalmOS5 (Soon to be 6) and high performance handhelds such as the Zodiac, Palm is making up that lost ground.



    I would say that PDAs are far from dead. Although it is convenient to have your PDA and phone in one, you sacrifice on both fronts to get a hybrid device.



    I would much rather have a dedicated PDA with bluetooth that works WITH my cell phone (using bluetooth). How nice would it be to just be able to leave your cell phone in your pocket and surf the web on a nice big 4" screen on your PDA with a decent res (VGA) while at the sime time being able to receive calls on your PDA through the cell phone which would never have to leave your pocket.



    You could have a setup like that during the day.. but let's say your going somewhere casual where you don't need your PDA. You can just take your ultra-tiny Cell phone with you.



    That is my thought.
  • Reply 16 of 22
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,839member
    I respect Jobs' decision not to release an Apple PDA.



    But I would love for him to show the prototype in public.



    Just for those of us who kept the faith for 5 years.
  • Reply 17 of 22
    bdonnbdonn Posts: 28member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Frank777

    I respect Jobs' decision not to release an Apple PDA.



    But I would love for him to show the prototype in public.



    Just for those of us who kept the faith for 5 years.






    Agreed, but the problem is, other companies might steal the design, because lets face it, I'm sure it looks fantastic!
  • Reply 18 of 22
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,839member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by BDONN

    Agreed, but the problem is, other companies might steal the design, because lets face it, I'm sure it looks fantastic!



    What's the problem with that? They're not going to release it anyway!
  • Reply 19 of 22
    Apple should be the first (to my knowledge) company to release a PalmOS6 based PDA with a build in hard drive.



    How nice would that be. 10gb of storage... on your palm pilot.
  • Reply 20 of 22
    For apple what would be the added value producing a Palm like PDA? The PDA market already shows its limits. PDAs are not computers.



    Sony going out of the business leaves the door open for a luxury PDA or a very small computer which could be the next step.



    For those who have a look at the OQO project, the main issue of such device is the size of the screen and the small keyboard. It is a stylish version of an HP small computer from 99. I do not remember the exact reference. It is nice but it will not change our vision of computing. I do not see Steve willing to compete.
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