Because liberals hate America and want it to be overrun by terrorists and despise decent people and want them to be enslaved and are generally so incredibly filled with hatred, yes, irrational hatred that they can barely speak so choked are they with bile and rage.
They are so dangerously unhinged with their hatred and all that they should be killed, each and every one of them, lined up and shot in the face because they are so hateful, left to die in the dirt like the dogs they are, their bodies piled up in broken heaps and covered with shit so then there will be no more hate in America.
Welcome to the world's largest strawman competition.
Because liberals hate America and want it to be overrun by terrorists and despise decent people and want them to be enslaved and are generally so incredibly filled with hatred, yes, irrational hatred that they can barely speak so choked are they with bile and rage.
They are so dangerously unhinged with their hatred and all that they should be killed, each and every one of them, lined up and shot in the face because they are so hateful, left to die in the dirt like the dogs they are, their bodies piled up in broken heaps and covered with shit so then there will be no more hate in America.
We know from what side Michael Moore drew inspiration.
Well it appears Fahrenheit's chances of being number one this week are slim and none. Spiderman 2 opened with 40 million in one night. So that is only 5 million more in one night than Fahrenheit has earned total so far.
I am pointing out the way in which the rhetoric is setting up a dichotomy . . .
Once these positions are set down they will only become increasingly rote and ossified.
'F-911 is to the Left what Passion was to the Right' - so says the rhetoric . . .
a false dichotomy, or rather, merely slightly true.
But the manner in which it is filling the debate, it will increasingly become accepted truth . . . and with that, you have the implied perception that a film that glorifies Jesus is in natural Opposition to a film critiquing the President . . . the catagories are being drawn and they fall into a simple Good/Bad; Black/White etc . .
It simply remains, once the rhetorical catagories are set and behind the scenes, to choose a side
Look alot of people may be passionate about their beliefs ( I know I am ).
Everything I've heard commented by people who have seen the film ( I've yet to but will ) idicates that it wasn't anything they didn't know before.
This probably means that the people who think Bush was right think the film is trash. The others think it's great because it agrees with their beliefs.
As always in life you have to go with what you know.
If a film came out vindicating Bush's actions I'd give it a chance also But I would need solid evidence to convince me otherwise. So far the Bush supporters have offered nothing but excuses and rhetoric. So at this late date I don't see that as forthcoming.
Nothing in this world is black or white but when push comes to shove sometimes your position has to be.
Sorry "Nicky", but even Spidey 2 didn't do as well as 911's opening based on the per screen average.
Well are you going to let Spiderman have more than a day?
Talk about jumping to your quick conclusions.
Fahrenheit went into wide release on Friday and averaged $9868 per screen. Spiderman 2 opened on Wednesday and averaged $9741. Of course Spiderman 2 should be given then until the weekend to truly compare apples to apples.
But if you want to compare the limited, 2 screen release, that isn't the same type of comparision. Limited vs wide.
I'm a little perplexed as to why anyone is even bothering with bringing up spider-man vs. fahrenheit, I don't think any reasonable person ( nyuk nyuk nyuk) thought that fahrenheit would top a major blockbuster super summer movie like spider-man, particularly when Fahrenheit was rated R. \
The fact that Fahrenheit has done so well on the very limited number of screens it's been on, says something. The fact that spider-man did so well on such a large number of screens is just business as usual ( oh cliches!)
Spider-man 2, the first sequel to an immensely popular movie, of course it's going to be the number 1 movie. Heh, although, Fahrenheit is a sequel of sorts, in that it's the next film from the notorious michael moore, so that right there probably supplied a very large portion of his opening revenues.
Eitherway, it's a pretty ridiculous "comparison" to begin with, ultimately, WHO CARES?!
I just took my son to his first movie on the 4th of July, Fahrenheit 9/11. It was a really entertaining and moving film. It's not just about Bush's ties to the Bin Laden family and oil. A lot of the movie was spent on US soldiers, and it was not soldier bashing.
I was curious so I checked out his website. Here is what he had to say about this past week.
Sunday, July 4th, 2004
My First Wild Week with "Fahrenheit 9/11"... By Michael Moore
Friends,
Where do I begin? This past week has knocked me for a loop. "Fahrenheit 9/11," the #1 movie in the country, the largest grossing documentary ever. My head is spinning. Didn't we just lose our distributor 8 weeks ago? Did Karl Rove really fail to stop this? Is Bush packing?
Each day this week I was given a new piece of information from the press that covers Hollywood, and I barely had time to recover from the last tidbit before the next one smacked me upside the head:
** More people saw "Fahrenheit 9/11" in one weekend than all the people who saw "Bowling for Columbine" in 9 months.
** "Fahrenheit 9/11" broke "Rocky III?s" record for the biggest box office opening weekend ever for any film that opened in less than a thousand theaters.
** "Fahrenheit 9/11" beat the opening weekend of "Return of the Jedi."
** "Fahrenheit 9/11" instantly went to #2 on the all-time list for largest per-theater average ever for a film that opened in wide-release.
How can I ever thank all of you who went to see it? These records are mind-blowing. They have sent shock waves through Hollywood ? and, more importantly, through the White House.
But it didn't just stop there. The response to the movie then went into the Twilight Zone. Surfing through the dial I landed on the Fox broadcasting network which was airing the NASCAR race live last Sunday to an audience of millions of Americans -- and suddenly the announcers were talking about how NASCAR champ Dale Earnhardt, Jr. took his crew to see ?Fahrenheit 9/11? the night before. FOX sportscaster Chris Myers delivered Earnhardt?s review straight out of his mouth and into the heartland of America: ?He said hey, it'll be a good bonding experience no matter what your political belief. It's a good thing as an American to go see.? Whoa! NASCAR fans ? you can?t go deeper into George Bush territory than that! White House moving vans ? START YOUR ENGINES!
Then there was Roger Friedman from the Fox News Channel giving our film an absolutely glowing review, calling it ?a really brilliant piece of work, and a film that members of all political parties should see without fail.? Richard Goldstein of the Village Voice surmised that Bush is already considered a goner so Rupert Murdoch might be starting to curry favor with the new administration. I don't know about that, but I?ve never heard a decent word toward me from Fox. So, after I was revived, I wondered if a love note to me from Sean Hannity was next.
How about Letterman?s Top Ten List: ?Top Ten George W. Bush Complaints About "Fahrenheit 9/11":
10. That actor who played the President was totally unconvincing
9. It oversimplified the way I stole the election
8. Too many of them fancy college-boy words
7. If Michael Moore had waited a few months, he could have included the part where I get him deported
6. Didn't have one of them hilarious monkeys who smoke cigarettes and gives people the finger
5. Of all Michael Moore's accusations, only 97% are true
4. Not sure - - I passed out after a piece of popcorn lodged in my windpipe
3. Where the hell was Spider-man?
2. Couldn't hear most of the movie over Cheney's foul mouth
1. I thought this was supposed to be about dodgeball
But it was the reactions and reports we received from theaters around the country that really sent me over the edge. One theatre manager after another phoned in to say that the movie was getting standing ovations as the credits rolled ? in places like Greensboro, NC and Oklahoma City -- and that they were having a hard time clearing the theater afterwards because people were either too stunned or they wanted to sit and talk to their neighbors about what they had just seen. In Trumbull, CT, one woman got up on her seat after the movie and shouted "Let's go have a meeting!" A man in San Francisco took his shoe off and threw it at the screen when Bush appeared at the end. Ladies? church groups in Tulsa were going to see it, and weeping afterwards.
It was this last group that gave lie to all the yakking pundits who, before the movie opened, declared that only the hard-core "choir" would go to see "Fahrenheit 9/11." They couldn't have been more wrong. Theaters in the Deep South and the Midwest set house records for any film they?d ever shown. Yes, it even sold out in Peoria. And Lubbock, Texas. And Anchorage, Alaska!
Newspaper after newspaper wrote stories in tones of breathless disbelief about people who called themselves ?Independents? and ?Republicans? walking out of the movie theater shaken and in tears, proclaiming that they could not, in good conscience, vote for George W. Bush. The New York Times wrote of a conservative Republican woman in her 20s in Pensacola, Florida who cried through the film, and told the reporter: ?It really makes me question what I feel about the president... it makes me question his motives??
Newsday reported on a self-described ?ardent Bush/Cheney supporter? who went to see the film on Long Island, and his quiet reaction afterwards. He said, "It's really given me pause to think about what's really going on. There was just too much - too much to discount." The man then bought three more tickets for another showing of the film.
The Los Angeles Times found a mother who had ?supported [Bush] fiercely? at a theater in Des Peres, Missouri: ?Emerging from Michael Moore's ?Fahrenheit 9/11,? her eyes wet, Leslie Hanser said she at last understood?. ?My emotions are just....? She trailed off, waving her hands to show confusion. ?I feel like we haven't seen the whole truth before.?"
All of this had to be the absolute worst news for the White House to wake up to on Monday morning. I guess they were in such a stupor, they "gave" Iraq back to, um, Iraq two days early!
News editors told us that they were being "bombarded" with e-mails and calls from the White House (read: Karl Rove), trying to spin their way out of this mess by attacking it and attacking me. Bush spokesman Dan Bartlett had told the White House press corps that the movie was "outrageously false" -- even though he said he hadn't seen the movie. He later told CNN that "This is a film that doesn't require us to actually view it to know that it's filled with factual inaccuracies." At least they're consistent. They never needed to see a single weapon of mass destruction before sending our kids off to die.
Many news shows were more than eager to buy the White House spin. After all, that is a big part of what "Fahrenheit" is about -- how the lazy, compliant media bought all the lies from the Bush administration about the need to invade Iraq. They took the Kool-Aid offered by the White House and rarely, if ever, did our media ask the hard questions that needed to be asked before the war started.
Because the movie "outs" the mainstream media for their failures and their complicity with the Bush administration -- who can ever forget their incessant, embarrassing cheerleading as the troops went off to war, as though it was all just a game -- the media was not about to let me get away with anything now resembling a cultural phenomenon. On show after show, they went after me with the kind of viciousness you would have hoped they had had for those who were lying about the necessity for invading a sovereign nation that was no threat to us. I don't blame our well-paid celebrity journalists -- they look like a bunch of ass-kissing dopes in my movie, and I guess I'd be pretty mad at me, too. After all, once the NASCAR fans see "Fahrenheit 9/11," will they ever believe a single thing they see on ABC/NBC/CBS news again?
In the next week or so, I will recount my adventures through the media this past month (I will also be posting a full FAQ on my website soon so that you can have all the necessary backup and evidence from the film when you find yourself in heated debate with your conservative brother-in-law!). For now, please know the following: Every single fact I state in "Fahrenheit 9/11" is the absolute and irrefutable truth. This movie is perhaps the most thoroughly researched and vetted documentary of our time. No fewer than a dozen people, including three teams of lawyers and the venerable one-time fact-checkers from The New Yorker went through this movie with a fine-tooth comb so that we can make this guarantee to you. Do not let anyone say this or that isn't true. If they say that, they are lying. Let them know that the OPINIONS in the film are mine, and anyone certainly has a right to disagree with them. And the questions I pose in the movie, based on these irrefutable facts, are also mine. And I have a right to ask them. And I will continue to ask them until they are answered.
In closing, let me say that the most heartening response to the film has come from our soldiers and their families. Theaters in military towns across the country reported packed houses. Our troops know the truth. They have seen it first-hand. And many of them could not believe that here was a movie that was TRULY on their side -- the side of bringing them home alive and never sending them into harms way again unless it's the absolute last resort. Please take a moment to read this wonderful story from the daily paper in Fayetteville, NC, where Fort Bragg is located. It broke my heart to read this, the reactions of military families and the comments of an infantryman?s wife publicly backing my movie -- and it gave me the resolve to make sure as many Americans as possible see this film in the coming weeks.
Thank you again, all of you, for your support. Together we did something for the history books. My apologies to "Return of the Jedi." We'll make it up by producing "Return of the Texan to Crawford" in November.
P.S. You can read letters from people around the country recounting their own experiences at the theater, and their reactions to the film by going here.
P.P.S. Also, I?m going to start blogging! Tonight! Come on over and check it out.
"Last weekend's top film, Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11," held up strongly, taking in an estimated $17 million from Friday to Saturday. Doubling its theater count to 1,725, "Fahrenheit 9/11" pushed its total to $56.1 million and has a good shot at becoming the first documentary to top the $100 million mark." -CNN article
So Moore is saying that conservatives are more open minded and ready to consider alternative world views from "the other side" than he is?
Even I get tired of hearing myself say this, but the world is not made of equal and opposite "views". There is such a thing as factually true, and not.
If Michael Moore is presenting facts (and to a large extent he is, the punditry not withstanding), your fake dichotomy would oblige him to adopt false beliefs in order to demonstrate "open mindedness".
Reaction to his film indicates that people are capable of changing their minds when presented with evidence they may not have been aware of.
Part of the reason he made the film is the shameful record of America's mainstream media and its inability to handle information that doesn't conform to the master narrative (every-thing's basically OK, he said/she said, it's all just politics, American is incapable of acting badly out of anything but well intentioned naiveté).
Very little about the Bush admin fits into this ideology, so many people have likely never encountered a sustained, internally consistent critique of its policies. I imagine it's quite a shock.
Even I get tired of hearing myself say this, but the world is not made of equal and opposite "views". There is such a thing as factually true, and not.
If Michael Moore is presenting facts (and to a large extent he is, the punditry not withstanding), your fake dichotomy would oblige him to adopt false beliefs in order to demonstrate "open mindedness".
Reaction to his film indicates that people are capable of changing their minds when presented with evidence they may not have been aware of.
Part of the reason he made the film is the shameful record of America's mainstream media and its inability to handle information that doesn't conform to the master narrative (every-thing's basically OK, he said/she said, it's all just politics, American is incapable of acting badly out of anything but well intentioned naiveté).
Very little about the Bush admin fits into this ideology, so many people have likely never encountered a sustained, internally consistent critique of its policies. I imagine it's quite a shock.
I think what addabox is saying in the first part of this post is true and important. It is also a mistake that seems easier to fall into when you spend alot of time on BBS boards: the world is not made up of equally false sides.
We may not be able to talk in terms of Truth with a capital 'T', but we can detirmine when something is falsifiable to a credible degree: in other words, it is an actual possibility to be wrong about something . . . in fact I would venture to say that most of us are wrong almost all of the time --not just taking a position, but truly wrong.
I am not sure that 'factuality' is such an easy thing to be absolute about, as one person's facts will mean differently for another person (I try to avoid the word 'fact') . . . but, this doesn't mean that Scott was not the auther of Waverly (or whatever that famous example is) or that saying that it is false that Ceasar crossed the Rubicon simply because one doesn't want it to be true, or one was told otherwise . . . these things will not go away, they can be properly called 'truths', to think them otherwise is to be wrong . . . However, what they mean for someone is an entirely different story . . .
Anyway, endless dialogues with people who twist logic to serve their ideology gives the false impression that merely taking a side is equal to taking the other side but different. . . that its all about style, or cleanlines, or whimpiness factor, or something trite and wrong like that.
Even I get tired of hearing myself say this, but the world is not made of equal and opposite "views". There is such a thing as factually true, and not.
In most cases you are right. But not in the case of Moore. I find it funny that Moore is able to applaud that conservatives have the ability to consider other point of views while he clearly isn´thimself. Moore have a lot of good points but he sees ghosts everywhere and I see NO ability from his side to try to see the case from the other side. Thats what I find funny. There is no black and white but Moore is as one sided as you possible can get in presenting the current political situation in US.
All you have to do is to look at the ABC interview with George Stephanopoulos. His explanation about the Bin Ladens alligations and about what the member of the Congress said and didnt say is so far fetched that it shame the rest of what is said in the movie.
And just to clear things up try look at posts made by me about the current war against terrorism. I´m not excatly on Bush side to put it mildly.
The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple.
-Oscar Wilde
Farenhite 7/11 is glib whitewash but out by a big corporation. If MM wanted to get the word out he would have streamed the movie over the internet for free. He is selling mass-produced discontent, owns his million dollar homes, etc, etc, etc.
Everbody go watch Evita again, same story, different gender.
"Fahrenheit 9/11" is a compelling, persuasive film, at odds with the White House effort to present Bush as a strong leader. He comes across as a shallow, inarticulate man, simplistic in speech and inauthentic in manner. If the film is not quite as electrifying as Moore's "Bowling for Columbine," that may be because Moore has toned down his usual exuberance and was sobered by attacks on the factual accuracy of elements of "Columbine"; playing with larger stakes, he is more cautious here, and we get an op-ed piece, not a stand-up routine. But he remains one of the most valuable figures on the political landscape, a populist rabble-rouser, humorous and effective; the outrage and incredulity in his film are an exhilarating response to Bush's determined repetition of the same stubborn sound bites.
Farenhite 7/11 is glib whitewash but out by a big corporation. If MM wanted to get the word out he would have streamed the movie over the internet for free. He is selling mass-produced discontent, owns his million dollar homes, etc, etc, etc.
Why not move to Cuba ya goddammed pinko-commie hippie.
This is America where big corporations, self-made millionaires and smug, fat people are welcomed with open arms.
The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple.
-Oscar Wilde
Farenhite 7/11 is glib whitewash but out by a big corporation. If MM wanted to get the word out he would have streamed the movie over the internet for free. He is selling mass-produced discontent, owns his million dollar homes, etc, etc, etc.
Everbody go watch Evita again, same story, different gender.
Why deny him the right to earn a living just because he is trying to level the political playing field a little, from a center/left point of view? btw...it's Fahrenheit9-11 (!)
I don't know about you, but I find both music and video on the net a very poor replacement. Give me a theater with people and an atmosphere any day: I would rather put up with waiting in line a few minutes for a ticket to see it properly, with quality sound and picture, than a tiny, pathetic, pixellated compressed version on a monitor which will get interrupted at some point, or more..
Comments
Originally posted by addabox
Because liberals hate America and want it to be overrun by terrorists and despise decent people and want them to be enslaved and are generally so incredibly filled with hatred, yes, irrational hatred that they can barely speak so choked are they with bile and rage.
They are so dangerously unhinged with their hatred and all that they should be killed, each and every one of them, lined up and shot in the face because they are so hateful, left to die in the dirt like the dogs they are, their bodies piled up in broken heaps and covered with shit so then there will be no more hate in America.
Welcome to the world's largest strawman competition.
Nick
Originally posted by addabox
Because liberals hate America and want it to be overrun by terrorists and despise decent people and want them to be enslaved and are generally so incredibly filled with hatred, yes, irrational hatred that they can barely speak so choked are they with bile and rage.
They are so dangerously unhinged with their hatred and all that they should be killed, each and every one of them, lined up and shot in the face because they are so hateful, left to die in the dirt like the dogs they are, their bodies piled up in broken heaps and covered with shit so then there will be no more hate in America.
We know from what side Michael Moore drew inspiration.
"...Strike me down with all of your hatred..."(.wav file)
"...your hate has made you powerful.."
Originally posted by trumptman
Well it appears Fahrenheit's chances of being number one this week are slim and none. Spiderman 2 opened with 40 million in one night. So that is only 5 million more in one night than Fahrenheit has earned total so far.
Bye bye Mickey
Nick
Sorry "Nicky", but even Spidey 2 didn't do as well as 911's opening based on the per screen average.
Originally posted by Existence
And that little bit about him ordering the illegal killing of 150,000 Cambodians. But that doesn't matter since those are brown people. You're right.
Oh, no, I wasn't justifying a President getting involved in a war and having people killed. Just pointing out some good things he did.
ANY President that initiates any conflict that results in the death of even one life is guilty and evil.
Originally posted by pfflam
Take is easy there fella . . .
I am pointing out the way in which the rhetoric is setting up a dichotomy . . .
Once these positions are set down they will only become increasingly rote and ossified.
'F-911 is to the Left what Passion was to the Right' - so says the rhetoric . . .
a false dichotomy, or rather, merely slightly true.
But the manner in which it is filling the debate, it will increasingly become accepted truth . . . and with that, you have the implied perception that a film that glorifies Jesus is in natural Opposition to a film critiquing the President . . . the catagories are being drawn and they fall into a simple Good/Bad; Black/White etc . .
It simply remains, once the rhetorical catagories are set and behind the scenes, to choose a side
Look alot of people may be passionate about their beliefs ( I know I am ).
Everything I've heard commented by people who have seen the film ( I've yet to but will ) idicates that it wasn't anything they didn't know before.
This probably means that the people who think Bush was right think the film is trash. The others think it's great because it agrees with their beliefs.
As always in life you have to go with what you know.
If a film came out vindicating Bush's actions I'd give it a chance also But I would need solid evidence to convince me otherwise. So far the Bush supporters have offered nothing but excuses and rhetoric. So at this late date I don't see that as forthcoming.
Nothing in this world is black or white but when push comes to shove sometimes your position has to be.
Originally posted by ShawnJ
We know from what side Michael Moore drew inspiration.
"...Strike me down with all of your hatred..."(.wav file)
"...your hate has made you powerful.."
God! Didn't they get this part of the film when they were kids?
Of course I was thirty when I viewed this but I'd seen similar parables before.
Great example though.
Originally posted by bunge
Sorry "Nicky", but even Spidey 2 didn't do as well as 911's opening based on the per screen average.
Well are you going to let Spiderman have more than a day?
Talk about jumping to your quick conclusions.
Fahrenheit went into wide release on Friday and averaged $9868 per screen. Spiderman 2 opened on Wednesday and averaged $9741. Of course Spiderman 2 should be given then until the weekend to truly compare apples to apples.
But if you want to compare the limited, 2 screen release, that isn't the same type of comparision. Limited vs wide.
Nick(y) (as in Darling)
The fact that Fahrenheit has done so well on the very limited number of screens it's been on, says something. The fact that spider-man did so well on such a large number of screens is just business as usual ( oh cliches!)
Spider-man 2, the first sequel to an immensely popular movie, of course it's going to be the number 1 movie. Heh, although, Fahrenheit is a sequel of sorts, in that it's the next film from the notorious michael moore, so that right there probably supplied a very large portion of his opening revenues.
Eitherway, it's a pretty ridiculous "comparison" to begin with, ultimately, WHO CARES?!
Originally posted by trumptman
But if you want to compare the limited, 2 screen release, that isn't the same type of comparision. Limited vs wide.
Actually, it's been you who is trying to compare the two releases.
I was curious so I checked out his website. Here is what he had to say about this past week.
Sunday, July 4th, 2004
My First Wild Week with "Fahrenheit 9/11"... By Michael Moore
Friends,
Where do I begin? This past week has knocked me for a loop. "Fahrenheit 9/11," the #1 movie in the country, the largest grossing documentary ever. My head is spinning. Didn't we just lose our distributor 8 weeks ago? Did Karl Rove really fail to stop this? Is Bush packing?
Each day this week I was given a new piece of information from the press that covers Hollywood, and I barely had time to recover from the last tidbit before the next one smacked me upside the head:
** More people saw "Fahrenheit 9/11" in one weekend than all the people who saw "Bowling for Columbine" in 9 months.
** "Fahrenheit 9/11" broke "Rocky III?s" record for the biggest box office opening weekend ever for any film that opened in less than a thousand theaters.
** "Fahrenheit 9/11" beat the opening weekend of "Return of the Jedi."
** "Fahrenheit 9/11" instantly went to #2 on the all-time list for largest per-theater average ever for a film that opened in wide-release.
How can I ever thank all of you who went to see it? These records are mind-blowing. They have sent shock waves through Hollywood ? and, more importantly, through the White House.
But it didn't just stop there. The response to the movie then went into the Twilight Zone. Surfing through the dial I landed on the Fox broadcasting network which was airing the NASCAR race live last Sunday to an audience of millions of Americans -- and suddenly the announcers were talking about how NASCAR champ Dale Earnhardt, Jr. took his crew to see ?Fahrenheit 9/11? the night before. FOX sportscaster Chris Myers delivered Earnhardt?s review straight out of his mouth and into the heartland of America: ?He said hey, it'll be a good bonding experience no matter what your political belief. It's a good thing as an American to go see.? Whoa! NASCAR fans ? you can?t go deeper into George Bush territory than that! White House moving vans ? START YOUR ENGINES!
Then there was Roger Friedman from the Fox News Channel giving our film an absolutely glowing review, calling it ?a really brilliant piece of work, and a film that members of all political parties should see without fail.? Richard Goldstein of the Village Voice surmised that Bush is already considered a goner so Rupert Murdoch might be starting to curry favor with the new administration. I don't know about that, but I?ve never heard a decent word toward me from Fox. So, after I was revived, I wondered if a love note to me from Sean Hannity was next.
How about Letterman?s Top Ten List: ?Top Ten George W. Bush Complaints About "Fahrenheit 9/11":
10. That actor who played the President was totally unconvincing
9. It oversimplified the way I stole the election
8. Too many of them fancy college-boy words
7. If Michael Moore had waited a few months, he could have included the part where I get him deported
6. Didn't have one of them hilarious monkeys who smoke cigarettes and gives people the finger
5. Of all Michael Moore's accusations, only 97% are true
4. Not sure - - I passed out after a piece of popcorn lodged in my windpipe
3. Where the hell was Spider-man?
2. Couldn't hear most of the movie over Cheney's foul mouth
1. I thought this was supposed to be about dodgeball
But it was the reactions and reports we received from theaters around the country that really sent me over the edge. One theatre manager after another phoned in to say that the movie was getting standing ovations as the credits rolled ? in places like Greensboro, NC and Oklahoma City -- and that they were having a hard time clearing the theater afterwards because people were either too stunned or they wanted to sit and talk to their neighbors about what they had just seen. In Trumbull, CT, one woman got up on her seat after the movie and shouted "Let's go have a meeting!" A man in San Francisco took his shoe off and threw it at the screen when Bush appeared at the end. Ladies? church groups in Tulsa were going to see it, and weeping afterwards.
It was this last group that gave lie to all the yakking pundits who, before the movie opened, declared that only the hard-core "choir" would go to see "Fahrenheit 9/11." They couldn't have been more wrong. Theaters in the Deep South and the Midwest set house records for any film they?d ever shown. Yes, it even sold out in Peoria. And Lubbock, Texas. And Anchorage, Alaska!
Newspaper after newspaper wrote stories in tones of breathless disbelief about people who called themselves ?Independents? and ?Republicans? walking out of the movie theater shaken and in tears, proclaiming that they could not, in good conscience, vote for George W. Bush. The New York Times wrote of a conservative Republican woman in her 20s in Pensacola, Florida who cried through the film, and told the reporter: ?It really makes me question what I feel about the president... it makes me question his motives??
Newsday reported on a self-described ?ardent Bush/Cheney supporter? who went to see the film on Long Island, and his quiet reaction afterwards. He said, "It's really given me pause to think about what's really going on. There was just too much - too much to discount." The man then bought three more tickets for another showing of the film.
The Los Angeles Times found a mother who had ?supported [Bush] fiercely? at a theater in Des Peres, Missouri: ?Emerging from Michael Moore's ?Fahrenheit 9/11,? her eyes wet, Leslie Hanser said she at last understood?. ?My emotions are just....? She trailed off, waving her hands to show confusion. ?I feel like we haven't seen the whole truth before.?"
All of this had to be the absolute worst news for the White House to wake up to on Monday morning. I guess they were in such a stupor, they "gave" Iraq back to, um, Iraq two days early!
News editors told us that they were being "bombarded" with e-mails and calls from the White House (read: Karl Rove), trying to spin their way out of this mess by attacking it and attacking me. Bush spokesman Dan Bartlett had told the White House press corps that the movie was "outrageously false" -- even though he said he hadn't seen the movie. He later told CNN that "This is a film that doesn't require us to actually view it to know that it's filled with factual inaccuracies." At least they're consistent. They never needed to see a single weapon of mass destruction before sending our kids off to die.
Many news shows were more than eager to buy the White House spin. After all, that is a big part of what "Fahrenheit" is about -- how the lazy, compliant media bought all the lies from the Bush administration about the need to invade Iraq. They took the Kool-Aid offered by the White House and rarely, if ever, did our media ask the hard questions that needed to be asked before the war started.
Because the movie "outs" the mainstream media for their failures and their complicity with the Bush administration -- who can ever forget their incessant, embarrassing cheerleading as the troops went off to war, as though it was all just a game -- the media was not about to let me get away with anything now resembling a cultural phenomenon. On show after show, they went after me with the kind of viciousness you would have hoped they had had for those who were lying about the necessity for invading a sovereign nation that was no threat to us. I don't blame our well-paid celebrity journalists -- they look like a bunch of ass-kissing dopes in my movie, and I guess I'd be pretty mad at me, too. After all, once the NASCAR fans see "Fahrenheit 9/11," will they ever believe a single thing they see on ABC/NBC/CBS news again?
In the next week or so, I will recount my adventures through the media this past month (I will also be posting a full FAQ on my website soon so that you can have all the necessary backup and evidence from the film when you find yourself in heated debate with your conservative brother-in-law!). For now, please know the following: Every single fact I state in "Fahrenheit 9/11" is the absolute and irrefutable truth. This movie is perhaps the most thoroughly researched and vetted documentary of our time. No fewer than a dozen people, including three teams of lawyers and the venerable one-time fact-checkers from The New Yorker went through this movie with a fine-tooth comb so that we can make this guarantee to you. Do not let anyone say this or that isn't true. If they say that, they are lying. Let them know that the OPINIONS in the film are mine, and anyone certainly has a right to disagree with them. And the questions I pose in the movie, based on these irrefutable facts, are also mine. And I have a right to ask them. And I will continue to ask them until they are answered.
In closing, let me say that the most heartening response to the film has come from our soldiers and their families. Theaters in military towns across the country reported packed houses. Our troops know the truth. They have seen it first-hand. And many of them could not believe that here was a movie that was TRULY on their side -- the side of bringing them home alive and never sending them into harms way again unless it's the absolute last resort. Please take a moment to read this wonderful story from the daily paper in Fayetteville, NC, where Fort Bragg is located. It broke my heart to read this, the reactions of military families and the comments of an infantryman?s wife publicly backing my movie -- and it gave me the resolve to make sure as many Americans as possible see this film in the coming weeks.
Thank you again, all of you, for your support. Together we did something for the history books. My apologies to "Return of the Jedi." We'll make it up by producing "Return of the Texan to Crawford" in November.
May the farce be with you, but not for long,
Michael Moore www.michaelmoore.com
[email protected]
P.S. You can read letters from people around the country recounting their own experiences at the theater, and their reactions to the film by going here.
P.P.S. Also, I?m going to start blogging! Tonight! Come on over and check it out.
"Last weekend's top film, Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11," held up strongly, taking in an estimated $17 million from Friday to Saturday. Doubling its theater count to 1,725, "Fahrenheit 9/11" pushed its total to $56.1 million and has a good shot at becoming the first documentary to top the $100 million mark." -CNN article
Originally posted by Anders
So Moore is saying that conservatives are more open minded and ready to consider alternative world views from "the other side" than he is?
Even I get tired of hearing myself say this, but the world is not made of equal and opposite "views". There is such a thing as factually true, and not.
If Michael Moore is presenting facts (and to a large extent he is, the punditry not withstanding), your fake dichotomy would oblige him to adopt false beliefs in order to demonstrate "open mindedness".
Reaction to his film indicates that people are capable of changing their minds when presented with evidence they may not have been aware of.
Part of the reason he made the film is the shameful record of America's mainstream media and its inability to handle information that doesn't conform to the master narrative (every-thing's basically OK, he said/she said, it's all just politics, American is incapable of acting badly out of anything but well intentioned naiveté).
Very little about the Bush admin fits into this ideology, so many people have likely never encountered a sustained, internally consistent critique of its policies. I imagine it's quite a shock.
Originally posted by addabox
Even I get tired of hearing myself say this, but the world is not made of equal and opposite "views". There is such a thing as factually true, and not.
If Michael Moore is presenting facts (and to a large extent he is, the punditry not withstanding), your fake dichotomy would oblige him to adopt false beliefs in order to demonstrate "open mindedness".
Reaction to his film indicates that people are capable of changing their minds when presented with evidence they may not have been aware of.
Part of the reason he made the film is the shameful record of America's mainstream media and its inability to handle information that doesn't conform to the master narrative (every-thing's basically OK, he said/she said, it's all just politics, American is incapable of acting badly out of anything but well intentioned naiveté).
Very little about the Bush admin fits into this ideology, so many people have likely never encountered a sustained, internally consistent critique of its policies. I imagine it's quite a shock.
I think what addabox is saying in the first part of this post is true and important. It is also a mistake that seems easier to fall into when you spend alot of time on BBS boards: the world is not made up of equally false sides.
We may not be able to talk in terms of Truth with a capital 'T', but we can detirmine when something is falsifiable to a credible degree: in other words, it is an actual possibility to be wrong about something . . . in fact I would venture to say that most of us are wrong almost all of the time --not just taking a position, but truly wrong.
I am not sure that 'factuality' is such an easy thing to be absolute about, as one person's facts will mean differently for another person (I try to avoid the word 'fact') . . . but, this doesn't mean that Scott was not the auther of Waverly (or whatever that famous example is) or that saying that it is false that Ceasar crossed the Rubicon simply because one doesn't want it to be true, or one was told otherwise . . . these things will not go away, they can be properly called 'truths', to think them otherwise is to be wrong . . . However, what they mean for someone is an entirely different story . . .
Anyway, endless dialogues with people who twist logic to serve their ideology gives the false impression that merely taking a side is equal to taking the other side but different. . . that its all about style, or cleanlines, or whimpiness factor, or something trite and wrong like that.
anyway . . . its late and I ramble
Originally posted by pfflam
Anyway, endless dialogues with people who twist logic to serve their ideology
AO in a nutshell.
Originally posted by addabox
Even I get tired of hearing myself say this, but the world is not made of equal and opposite "views". There is such a thing as factually true, and not.
In most cases you are right. But not in the case of Moore. I find it funny that Moore is able to applaud that conservatives have the ability to consider other point of views while he clearly isn´thimself. Moore have a lot of good points but he sees ghosts everywhere and I see NO ability from his side to try to see the case from the other side. Thats what I find funny. There is no black and white but Moore is as one sided as you possible can get in presenting the current political situation in US.
All you have to do is to look at the ABC interview with George Stephanopoulos. His explanation about the Bin Ladens alligations and about what the member of the Congress said and didnt say is so far fetched that it shame the rest of what is said in the movie.
And just to clear things up try look at posts made by me about the current war against terrorism. I´m not excatly on Bush side to put it mildly.
-Oscar Wilde
Farenhite 7/11 is glib whitewash but out by a big corporation. If MM wanted to get the word out he would have streamed the movie over the internet for free. He is selling mass-produced discontent, owns his million dollar homes, etc, etc, etc.
Everbody go watch Evita again, same story, different gender.
From the review :
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"Fahrenheit 9/11" is a compelling, persuasive film, at odds with the White House effort to present Bush as a strong leader. He comes across as a shallow, inarticulate man, simplistic in speech and inauthentic in manner. If the film is not quite as electrifying as Moore's "Bowling for Columbine," that may be because Moore has toned down his usual exuberance and was sobered by attacks on the factual accuracy of elements of "Columbine"; playing with larger stakes, he is more cautious here, and we get an op-ed piece, not a stand-up routine. But he remains one of the most valuable figures on the political landscape, a populist rabble-rouser, humorous and effective; the outrage and incredulity in his film are an exhilarating response to Bush's determined repetition of the same stubborn sound bites.
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Nuff said!
Originally posted by dmz
Farenhite 7/11 is glib whitewash but out by a big corporation. If MM wanted to get the word out he would have streamed the movie over the internet for free. He is selling mass-produced discontent, owns his million dollar homes, etc, etc, etc.
Why not move to Cuba ya goddammed pinko-commie hippie.
This is America where big corporations, self-made millionaires and smug, fat people are welcomed with open arms.
Originally posted by dmz
The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple.
-Oscar Wilde
Farenhite 7/11 is glib whitewash but out by a big corporation. If MM wanted to get the word out he would have streamed the movie over the internet for free. He is selling mass-produced discontent, owns his million dollar homes, etc, etc, etc.
Everbody go watch Evita again, same story, different gender.
Why deny him the right to earn a living just because he is trying to level the political playing field a little, from a center/left point of view? btw...it's Fahrenheit 9-11 (!)
I don't know about you, but I find both music and video on the net a very poor replacement. Give me a theater with people and an atmosphere any day: I would rather put up with waiting in line a few minutes for a ticket to see it properly, with quality sound and picture, than a tiny, pathetic, pixellated compressed version on a monitor which will get interrupted at some point, or more..