You know what. In 20 years when k-12 are asked what 911 they will say "the alarm number" or "where they buy their Jolt Cola" and we will be sitting here as 50 year olds and complainthat kids nowadays don´t know any history.
Will there be a 7-eleven in the new world trade tovers? Perhaps where the hanging garens were suppose to be.
Moore's response to Letterman (after a joking aside) sums up the problem with his work. Despite proclamations that the film is satirical and represents his opinion, Moore still makes strong claims about its veracity:
You can't refute what's said in the film. It's all there, the facts are all there, the footage is all there.
Sadly, as with most of Moore's work, this is simply not true.
You know what. In 20 years when k-12 are asked what 911 they will say "the alarm number" or "where they buy their Jolt Cola" and we will be sitting here as 50 year olds and complainthat kids nowadays don´t know any history.
Will there be a 7-eleven in the new world trade tovers? Perhaps where the hanging garens were suppose to be.
Oh I think they'll remember it because of school. They'll just think it happened in 1960's.
And yes when you get to 50 you remember lots of things from your 20's and 30's that seemed terribly important at the time.
dmz what do you mean by your post. Surely you can't be implying he did it for the money, considering he has said and so has Lions Gate that they don't mind people pirating the film. Of course he's not 100% altruistic, almost no one besides maybe Mother Theresa and Ghandi are, and if you think about it, even they aren't since they think by doing "God's work" in this lifetime they are buying themselves a cozy seat in "Heaven."
Wow. He is a heartless bastard. How can you defend someone who jokes about sending a thousand Americans to their death for oil money.
Nick speaking of fancy concepts like strawmen, let's try not to change the subject shall we. This thread isn't about opening weekend profits and Spiderman 2. No one here cares how much profits the film is making we just want everyone to see the truth that this administration has desperately been trying to hide. I learned quite a few new things in the film. I mean I knew his companies dealt with Saudis but not to that extent. FOOTAGE DOESN'T LIE. You can see him and his dad schmoozing with Saudis. And yes that's where the 9/11 terrorists came from.
I also like how plainly obvious Moore and his interviewee the retired FBI agent make the fact that Bush flew bin Laden's family out of the US way out of line and not following correct investigative procedure.
Something I didn't like about the movie that was misleading was that it implied that soldiers decided to abuse Iraqis on their own. That undoubtedly occurred but a lot of the abuse and deaths were ordered. Things like this can't happen without support/knowledge of superior officers, all the way to Bush and Rumsfeld. It's like the movie Serpico. THEY KNEW.
queue: Now Nick, SDW and Scott will rationalize torture.
I thought we were benevolent liberators working for freer societies, where the President didn't control the media, snoop on its own citizens, and attack other countries and torture innocent people? Go ahead. Defend that. It makes you look like a sick person. No. It makes you a sick person. Look at a picture of an Iraqi baby or American soldier with no arms or legs and tell me it's worth it. The picture that grasped me was the kid whose face was cut up from who knows what, with one tear. The tear, it grabbed me. Damn.
Nick speaking of fancy concepts like strawmen, let's try not to change the subject shall we. This thread isn't about opening weekend profits and Spiderman 2. No one here cares how much profits the film is making we just want everyone to see the truth that this administration has desperately been trying to hide. I learned quite a few new things in the film. I mean I knew his companies dealt with Saudis but not to that extent. FOOTAGE DOESN'T LIE. You can see him and his dad schmoozing with Saudis. And yes that's where the 9/11 terrorists came from.
I also like how plainly obvious Moore and his interviewee the retired FBI agent make the fact that Bush flew bin Laden's family out of the US way out of line and not following correct investigative procedure.
Footage doesn't lie. How about a nice logical fallacy. A = B, therefore B = C. Let's try it on for size with reasoning that you aren't so blind to seeing, in fact that you would likely declare to be completely stupid and idiotic.
Most of the terrorists were from Saudi Arabia, therefore all Saudi Arabians must be terrorists...
Right I mean that is what you just said above. Talk about your ultimate form of racism.
The profit aspect wasn't even my angle. Others were remarking about how "big" Fahrenheit was playing in terms of buzz and people seeing it. My point was that it wasn't really that big at all when you compared it to other films this year. In fact it will probably do about the same amount of business as that cultural phenom.. Scooby Doo. Appropriate since the level of mystery, clues and factualness is about the same.
Footage doesn't lie. How about a nice logical fallacy. A = B, therefore B = C. Let's try it on for size with reasoning that you aren't so blind to seeing, in fact that you would likely declare to be completely stupid and idiotic.
Most of the terrorists were from Saudi Arabia, therefore all Saudi Arabians must be terrorists...
Right I mean that is what you just said above. Talk about your ultimate form of racism.
The profit aspect wasn't even my angle. Others were remarking about how "big" Fahrenheit was playing in terms of buzz and people seeing it. My point was that it wasn't really that big at all when you compared it to other films this year. In fact it will probably do about the same amount of business as that cultural phenom.. Scooby Doo. Appropriate since the level of mystery, clues and factualness is about the same.
Nick
You mean you wish this was true. For a documentary it's doing quite well!
He's publicly stated that he doesn't mind people downloading it off of the internet.
yes, I know that, but that's different than "he has it available free for download"
HE isn't serving it or having it served, it's still pirates that are distributing it, unless he actually is, which is why I said eh? because I had only heard he was cool with it being downloaded, not that he was actually providing people a means to download it. additionally, the only copies you can find online are shitty shaky cams.(that may have changed since it came out)
He spent a lot of money making this film . . . as all films are expensive . . . he probably owes his life to Disney . . . well, he probably did for a while there . . . I'm sure that he needed to make money in order to be able to continue making films . . . distribution and PR through a major distributor also costs lots of money, and, it guarantees that he will get his film seen . . . how many people actually watch full length downloaded movies? not many
and how many people have seen 'Uncovered' even though it has been going around the country in free screenings? not that many . . . I haven't.
I downloaded a very poor quality dub of just 'part1' and it took hours and hours . . . I won't watch it till after I see it at a theatre though . .
Nick nice try. FOOTAGE DOESN'T LIE. BUSH JOKED ABOUT HIS WMD LIES. WHICH COST THOUSANDS OF LIVES. I'm sure those families would be a little pissed if you mentioned your "logical fallacy" and "A to B to C" bullshit to them. Like the woman in Fahrenheit who knew "This is all staged! All staged!"
And I just finished watching Wag the Dog. Everyone go watch it! Made in 97, amazingly a year before the Lewinsky scandal, where Clinton used some war maneuvering (or so Republicans said, he was actually um fighting terrorism) to escape the media. Very interesting, this film. Just like The Siege, which predicted 9-11 and our reaction. These are two potent, powerful films. I would say almost more so in their way that they were made before events actually happened!
Also I liked Moore's "1984" reference in the film. Ashcroft's real good at singing apparently he even made that song up? At least if he gets fired he'll have another career option.
By your logic he isn't making it available in theaters either.
eh?
Michael Moore does not have the movie available for download, The movie *IS* available for download yes, but michael moore is not making that so. It would still be AVAILABLE for download even if moore said "don't download my movie, you have to see it in theaters"
his blessing means nothing, pirates will be pirates regardless, only now, the guy that went into the theater with the intentions of stealing the movie to put it on the internet, isn't Technically a pirate because moore said it was okay, but, that doesn't change the fact that moore isn't serving it for anyone, or giving it to anyone for free. He's just saying that he wants as many people as possible to see it, if they have to download it, so be it, he has no problems with that, as long as they end up seeing it.
that's a big difference from him making it available to download for free, which implies that he is actively making that so.
Comments
Oh the irony.
You know what. In 20 years when k-12 are asked what 911 they will say "the alarm number" or "where they buy their Jolt Cola" and we will be sitting here as 50 year olds and complainthat kids nowadays don´t know any history.
Will there be a 7-eleven in the new world trade tovers? Perhaps where the hanging garens were suppose to be.
Originally posted by Anders
7-eleven?
Oh the irony.
what's the matter with you people!!! I was JOKING!!!!
Spinsanity
The summary says it best.
Moore's response to Letterman (after a joking aside) sums up the problem with his work. Despite proclamations that the film is satirical and represents his opinion, Moore still makes strong claims about its veracity:
You can't refute what's said in the film. It's all there, the facts are all there, the footage is all there.
Sadly, as with most of Moore's work, this is simply not true.
Nick
Originally posted by dmz
If MM wanted to get the word out he would have streamed the movie over the internet for free.
He has it available for a free download.
Not everyone has the time or inclination to download an entire movie off the net though. Some people do like to watch movies on the big screen too.
Originally posted by bunge
He has it available for a free download.
Not everyone has the time or inclination to download an entire movie off the net though. Some people do like to watch movies on the big screen too.
eh?
Originally posted by Anders
7-eleven?
Oh the irony.
You know what. In 20 years when k-12 are asked what 911 they will say "the alarm number" or "where they buy their Jolt Cola" and we will be sitting here as 50 year olds and complainthat kids nowadays don´t know any history.
Will there be a 7-eleven in the new world trade tovers? Perhaps where the hanging garens were suppose to be.
Oh I think they'll remember it because of school. They'll just think it happened in 1960's.
And yes when you get to 50 you remember lots of things from your 20's and 30's that seemed terribly important at the time.
Originally posted by bunge
He has it available for a free download.
what!?
The point! -----> It was done for money!!
Is it really a documentary or is it a political commercial?
It's definately one-sided and created exactly the way the director intended for it to be made. From his point of view.
Ken Burns' baseball was a documentary.
This movie was entertaining.
Did it piss me off?
Sure.
I can't stand rich people who use poor people to make themselves richer.
The director made Bush to be a baffoon, Cheyney to be a typical business jerk and other top government officials to be idiots.
The rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.
So, who's really telling the truth?
Who is to believe?
I guess people will believe whatever they want ot believe.
As for me, I believe the one comon denominator in this whole mess of things is money. Money money money money....
OK just watched the film. ONE thing they should have added: this. At the end, right after Bush's stumbling "Fool me...uh..." quote. http://www.musicforamerica.org/misc/...s/bushjoke.mov
Wow. He is a heartless bastard. How can you defend someone who jokes about sending a thousand Americans to their death for oil money.
Nick speaking of fancy concepts like strawmen, let's try not to change the subject shall we. This thread isn't about opening weekend profits and Spiderman 2. No one here cares how much profits the film is making we just want everyone to see the truth that this administration has desperately been trying to hide. I learned quite a few new things in the film. I mean I knew his companies dealt with Saudis but not to that extent. FOOTAGE DOESN'T LIE. You can see him and his dad schmoozing with Saudis. And yes that's where the 9/11 terrorists came from.
I also like how plainly obvious Moore and his interviewee the retired FBI agent make the fact that Bush flew bin Laden's family out of the US way out of line and not following correct investigative procedure.
Again: Bush is a heartless bastard. http://www.musicforamerica.org/misc/...s/bushjoke.mov
Prisoners orderd abused.
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...&oneclick=true
Prisoners were ordered held "off the books" so no one, like the Red Cross would find out.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5226957/
Then we covered it up.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/...oner.abuse.ap/
Then they defended and rationalized and justified.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in617105.shtml
queue: Now Nick, SDW and Scott will rationalize torture.
I thought we were benevolent liberators working for freer societies, where the President didn't control the media, snoop on its own citizens, and attack other countries and torture innocent people? Go ahead. Defend that. It makes you look like a sick person. No. It makes you a sick person. Look at a picture of an Iraqi baby or American soldier with no arms or legs and tell me it's worth it. The picture that grasped me was the kid whose face was cut up from who knows what, with one tear. The tear, it grabbed me. Damn.
Originally posted by Aquatic
Nick speaking of fancy concepts like strawmen, let's try not to change the subject shall we. This thread isn't about opening weekend profits and Spiderman 2. No one here cares how much profits the film is making we just want everyone to see the truth that this administration has desperately been trying to hide. I learned quite a few new things in the film. I mean I knew his companies dealt with Saudis but not to that extent. FOOTAGE DOESN'T LIE. You can see him and his dad schmoozing with Saudis. And yes that's where the 9/11 terrorists came from.
I also like how plainly obvious Moore and his interviewee the retired FBI agent make the fact that Bush flew bin Laden's family out of the US way out of line and not following correct investigative procedure.
Again: Bush is a heartless bastard. http://www.musicforamerica.org/misc/...s/bushjoke.mov
Hahahahaha, classic.
Footage doesn't lie. How about a nice logical fallacy. A = B, therefore B = C. Let's try it on for size with reasoning that you aren't so blind to seeing, in fact that you would likely declare to be completely stupid and idiotic.
Most of the terrorists were from Saudi Arabia, therefore all Saudi Arabians must be terrorists...
Right I mean that is what you just said above. Talk about your ultimate form of racism.
The profit aspect wasn't even my angle. Others were remarking about how "big" Fahrenheit was playing in terms of buzz and people seeing it. My point was that it wasn't really that big at all when you compared it to other films this year. In fact it will probably do about the same amount of business as that cultural phenom.. Scooby Doo. Appropriate since the level of mystery, clues and factualness is about the same.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
Hahahahaha, classic.
Footage doesn't lie. How about a nice logical fallacy. A = B, therefore B = C. Let's try it on for size with reasoning that you aren't so blind to seeing, in fact that you would likely declare to be completely stupid and idiotic.
Most of the terrorists were from Saudi Arabia, therefore all Saudi Arabians must be terrorists...
Right I mean that is what you just said above. Talk about your ultimate form of racism.
The profit aspect wasn't even my angle. Others were remarking about how "big" Fahrenheit was playing in terms of buzz and people seeing it. My point was that it wasn't really that big at all when you compared it to other films this year. In fact it will probably do about the same amount of business as that cultural phenom.. Scooby Doo. Appropriate since the level of mystery, clues and factualness is about the same.
Nick
You mean you wish this was true. For a documentary it's doing quite well!
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
eh?
He's publicly stated that he doesn't mind people downloading it off of the internet.
Originally posted by bunge
He's publicly stated that he doesn't mind people downloading it off of the internet.
yes, I know that, but that's different than "he has it available free for download"
HE isn't serving it or having it served, it's still pirates that are distributing it, unless he actually is, which is why I said eh? because I had only heard he was cool with it being downloaded, not that he was actually providing people a means to download it. additionally, the only copies you can find online are shitty shaky cams.(that may have changed since it came out)
and how many people have seen 'Uncovered' even though it has been going around the country in free screenings? not that many . . . I haven't.
I downloaded a very poor quality dub of just 'part1' and it took hours and hours . . . I won't watch it till after I see it at a theatre though . .
And I just finished watching Wag the Dog. Everyone go watch it! Made in 97, amazingly a year before the Lewinsky scandal, where Clinton used some war maneuvering (or so Republicans said, he was actually um fighting terrorism) to escape the media. Very interesting, this film. Just like The Siege, which predicted 9-11 and our reaction. These are two potent, powerful films. I would say almost more so in their way that they were made before events actually happened!
Also I liked Moore's "1984" reference in the film. Ashcroft's real good at singing apparently he even made that song up? At least if he gets fired he'll have another career option.
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
yes, I know that, but that's different than "he has it available free for download"
It's his property. You can download it for free.
By your logic he isn't making it available in theaters either.
Originally posted by Aquatic
And I just finished watching Wag the Dog.
Get yourself a copy of BOB ROBERTS.
Originally posted by bunge
It's his property. You can download it for free.
By your logic he isn't making it available in theaters either.
eh?
Michael Moore does not have the movie available for download, The movie *IS* available for download yes, but michael moore is not making that so. It would still be AVAILABLE for download even if moore said "don't download my movie, you have to see it in theaters"
his blessing means nothing, pirates will be pirates regardless, only now, the guy that went into the theater with the intentions of stealing the movie to put it on the internet, isn't Technically a pirate because moore said it was okay, but, that doesn't change the fact that moore isn't serving it for anyone, or giving it to anyone for free. He's just saying that he wants as many people as possible to see it, if they have to download it, so be it, he has no problems with that, as long as they end up seeing it.
that's a big difference from him making it available to download for free, which implies that he is actively making that so.