Other than the Quadro FX 4000 there is all the room for expandability, (another optical drive bay is there, and when Tyan updates their motherboards to PCIe I can start swapping, and selling parts. If I want I can probably keep upgrading that computer there with new motherboards, and processors for years for 1/4th the cost of what it would cost to maintain a Mac with specs like that.
I'll probably be able to plug 3GHz AMD processors right into that motherboard there. You can't do that on a Mac the day IBM has new processors ready you can't just order them up, and throw them in. I'm actually pretty happy to move away from the Mac for a spell while they sort out their problems.
I'm disappointed about the 3d cards but I find it fishy that the new Monitors weren't announced yet and even more interesting that they may be DVI. Methinks my #1 complaint will be taken care of shortly.
Just to follow up on that, I can recall at least one instance where new GPUs were introduced by ATI and added to the Power Mac line as CTO options. People shouldn't assume that the cards we have now are the cards we're going to have until the next revision.
Matsu, re "macs are right where they need to be for the people that buy these types of set-up":
I don't think so. Apart from the lack of internal HD bays, the biggest issue is still the lack of Pro graphics cards. You cannot really be serious about Maya without a Wildcat, Quadro or FireGL card. If you look at Alias' list of qualified video hardware all you get on the Mac side (if you scroll down) are 'Restrictions', 'Restricitons' and 'Restrictions'. Things just don't work right. And that's for Maya 6 which has only been introduced a month ago, so not much will change here soon.
In general however, Maya on the Mac is really huge, Alias in one press release said that 25% of new Maya licenses are for Macintosh, which is far more than the average Mac marketshare would suggest (whether it's 2.5, 3 or 5%). Apple should be proud! But things must not stop here, or the momentum will be lost and buyers will reconsider - as many in this thread show.
This is where I had hoped that revision B PowerMacs G5s would have PCI express and that Apple would switch back to DVI displays to make it easier for Pro graphic card manufacturers to port their hardware. Motto: every little helps.
My last hope is that perhaps with OS 10.4 things might change. Perhaps Pro graphic cards are missing due to certain features lacking in 10.3.
Apple has no ballz to put the real contender on there... the AMD Opteron. The Dual opterons will smoke the current g5s released today. They have on chip mem controllers... they have 1mb cache... they are clocked higher, they have more transistors... Why would apple try and compare to singles? Because they know the truth.
This is why I don't think today was a big deal. As far as I'm concerned this hardware is already 4 months old. I do think that the low end should have been dual 2 and there should have been a mediator between 2 and 2.5... 400mhz jump to a 1ghz jump... come on now.
Quote:
Originally posted by mlnjr
This probably doesn't deserve a thread of its own since it's related to the new G5s, but has anyone noticed what's wrong with this picture?
Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm pretty sure the 1.8 GHz model shouldn't have been tested twice.
Apple should be proud! But things must not stop here, or the momentum will be lost and buyers will reconsider - as many in this thread show.
Oh you mean a couple of people looking at ugly Alienware computers and trying to convince me that extra drive bays and a few USB ports are worth spending as much on as a Mac?
Note the Alienware boxes don't have PCI Express either. If you decide to replace the Motherboard someday then you've wasted your money as anyone who feels comfortable swapping out hardware could build their own and beat that god awful Alienware price by at least a $1k
Everyone I've seen on the boards for digital video and Audio are happy with the 2.5 giggers. Oh yeah ..I forgot they actually make money with their computers rather than bytch about what whizzbang feature will come that generates no additional profits.
Quote:
This is where I had hoped that revision B PowerMacs G5s would have PCI express and that Apple would switch back to DVI displays to make it easier for Pro graphic card manufacturers to port their hardware. Motto: every little helps.
If the new Apple LCDs ship with DVI you're halfway there. I've got my fingers crossed.
This is why I don't think today was a big deal. As far as I'm concerned this hardware is already 4 months old. I do think that the low end should have been dual 2 and there should have been a mediator between 2 and 2.5... 400mhz jump to a 1ghz jump... come on now.
Yes it's interesting that Apple didn't create a 2.2Ghz model. could the be stockpiling? Or do they not want to roll out Liquid Cooling in the midrange product.
As for the Opteron. My God have people been overhyping this chip. The ondie memory controll is beneficial in applications that are memory bound. Granted that's a decent lot of some apps but benches that aren't memory bound show the Opteron as being equal to a Xeon or PPC 970.
I'm not buying into the hype yet. When I see Final Cut Pro running multiple HD streams without stuttering In know a 2.5Ghz 970fx is nothing to sneeze at.
That was my point hmurchison. From what I see in there, and elsewhere, is people complaining about prices, and the reduced internal drive bay space for expandability.
I think the majority of people "want drives as cheaply as possible." That's basically exactly what I mean when I said that 8 ram slots were over rated.
Even when I'm using Maya, with it's built in rendering, or mental Ray. Both renderers stop using additional ram resources when they need no more. I've loaded up scenes with pixels in the Multi millions, and they have never used close to 4GB ram they don't need it. Neither does Photoshop, Painter, ZBrush, Alias Sketchbook Pro. UT2K4, Americas Army the list go's on. . I cant think of an app I use that's actually asked for that kind of memory, but then again that was not my original point. It was about what most people were interested in, and I think it's Cheap HD expansion over another 4GB of RAM.
Take a poll. I think they A) #1 don't have the ram filled, but want more drive space. I think I'm right.
I would rather have ram slots then hd bays. The point isn't that 1 app uses 4 gb of ram. What would be wrong with having shake, fcp, maya, cinema 4d all open at once? I don't know one person that opens 1 program at a time.
Todays programming languages are getting so highlevel and there is so much memory overhead going on. They are becoming memory hogs because companies are trying to make programming easy. Java and C# are perfect examples... they need the extra overhead for memory management.
I do agree that the macs are starving for better graphics cards. I think that was the biggest let down of the day... no pci-e... so to me these machines will be extinct by 2006... when quartz extreme isn't quartz extreme any more. Really the biggest potential improvement in OS Gui's is through 3d... 2d can only be thought of so many ways... OS's will require some really intense graphics in the coming future.
Everyone I've seen on the boards for digital video and Audio are happy with the 2.5 giggers.
I think you miss the point. The idea here is expanding Apple's marketshare. Apple already owns the digital video and audio market. Not much to gain here.
But Apple currently has hardly any presence in the 3D market. Yet with Maya for Mac OS X Apple for the first time has a real opportunity to make inroads, to gain marketshare. Apple can't be sitting on their hands - or they'll lose that chance.
Apple should do all it can to help, even if it means they have to write the driver for one of these Pro cards themselves. Afterall, do they want to expand into a new market or not?
I wasn't talking about Alienware either. In my book the bigger contender is Boxx Tech. They're cheaper and reportedly better.
And if you look at the GoBOXX Key Specs (bottom right hand corner) you can get an idea what a portable 3D workstation really needs to look like - as opposed to a 17" PowerBook with 1.5GHz.
It's really not about bytching at all. It's about an opportunity for Apple, which should not be lost, because that would be a shame.
But then again, maybe Apple is happy with its iTunes and iMovie and no longer gives anything about the 3D market...
Indeed...this is totally unacceptable. I would of rather not seen an upgrade at all than be stuck with this shit for another 4-9 months. Adding to the injury, this is definitely not the new 970s we've been hearing about for 9 months if the the computers require water-cooling. No decent price drop on the low-end either.
Happy 20th fucking birthday Macintosh!
I'll tell you what is going on. IBM is probably only getting good yields of 2.2 Ghz chips and then is overclocking them to make up for the low yields of higher clocked chips. These chips are supposed to run cooler than the first gen G5s. If they had the chip runs cranking like they had hoped we would be seeing 2.5 Gig chips running air cooled and 3 gigers overclocked with water cooling.
XP is less than 3 years old, not five. Even Windows 2000, on which XP is based upon, is not 4 years old yet.
Utter FUD. Longhorn will run on practically anything modern (Penitum 2+ with sufficient RAM). For all the gooey features, one does need 8x AGP and a Direct X9 128MB video card, both qualifications the Alienware meets.
XP and 2k might not be over 5 years old but MOST of the code they are written and based off of ... IS!
I try to look at this from many different viewpoints. strategically, polically etc. We already knew that this series would likely be RevB. Large architecture changes are unlikely. Once you have a mobo working well it's doubtful you'll want to scrap it.
There's a $50 difference between the FX card and the 9600. Makes me think Apple wanted to make sure the lineup promoted both Ati and Nvidia cards. It's important that both compete for Apples attention and business.
Timing- This hardware was likely completed months ago. We've been waiting and waiting. I'd bet money that they had to go back to the drawing board once they found out that the 970fx at 2.5Ghz was thermally difficult without another cooling method. That's more time.
Apple LOVES technology. They want to give you everything they can but sometimes you just have to keep the natives at bay and keep your head working on the next big thing.
Architosh reports that Apple wants to use Hypertransport 2. PCI Express is a must as well. The larger changes are coming...just not now.
I look forward to the future. We're right there in the hunt. Opterons are faster..but seconds and not minutes. The gap has been cloeed on hardware. Not it's time for Apple to shine where they do their best in. Software.
One thing I don't understand is how there can be a 50 dollar difference between a 5200fx and a 9600xt.
I also don't understand why the 5200fx was the lsat nvidia graphics card to be released for the mac. It's such a POS card and so many other geforce cards are so much better...
The problem I have with your theory of the hardware being completed months ago... is there is still an august shipping date for the dual 2.5's... yes august... I put an order in today and it said 8 - 9 weeks.
If the 2 other machines are water cooled and the hardware was completed back then, then there should be high yields of 970fx 2.5s. Just a theory... but I have a feeling ibm still isn't running 100% with yields... disagree?
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Hobbit
I try to look at this from many different viewpoints. strategically, polically etc. We already knew that this series would likely be RevB. Large architecture changes are unlikely. Once you have a mobo working well it's doubtful you'll want to scrap it.
There's a $50 difference between the FX card and the 9600. Makes me think Apple wanted to make sure the lineup promoted both Ati and Nvidia cards. It's important that both compete for Apples attention and business.
Timing- This hardware was likely completed months ago. We've been waiting and waiting. I'd bet money that they had to go back to the drawing board once they found out that the 970fx at 2.5Ghz was thermally difficult without another cooling method. That's more time.
Apple LOVES technology. They want to give you everything they can but sometimes you just have to keep the natives at bay and keep your head working on the next big thing.
Architosh reports that Apple wants to use Hypertransport 2. PCI Express is a must as well. The larger changes are coming...just not now.
I look forward to the future. We're right there in the hunt. Opterons are faster..but seconds and not minutes. The gap has been cloeed on hardware. Not it's time for Apple to shine where they do their best in. Software.
I'll tell you what is going on. IBM is probably only getting good yields of 2.2 Ghz chips and then is overclocking them to make up for the low yields of higher clocked chips. These chips are supposed to run cooler than the first gen G5s. If they had the chip runs cranking like they had hoped we would be seeing 2.5 Gig chips running air cooled and 3 gigers overclocked with water cooling.
I'm no chip expert, but I've seen this overclocking stuff discussed many times and I don't think it has any validity. Chips are tested and certified for a given speed. I'm sure there is a margin of safety built in, but that doesn't mean they can crank them up and and erase that margin. That would make a mockery of the entire certification process and render it meaningless.
Gawd, am I only one who thinks the board is starting to stink? What made all of you PC shills descend on us en masse at this point in the game? It would have made just as much sense to sing the praises of AMD prior to the announcement, when we were still at 2GHz. Additionally, the rumor sites consistently said the 970fx wouldn't get near 3GHz. So why are people crying out in agony over that very fact? I realize Jobs whipped us up into a frenzy with the 3GHz remark, but mature individuals know how cope with disappointment. People brashly compare IBM to Motorola now because of one relatively disappointing period. Get a grip, seriously.
Those of you who are ignorantly advocating a switch to AMD or Intel don't realize that such a transition would literally kill Apple. Take a breath; think before you post. And if you're still compelled to wax poetic over your precious PC platform, slobber over it on some other forum.
Those of you who are ignorantly advocating a switch to AMD or Intel don't realize that such a transition would literally kill Apple. Take a breath; think before you post. And if you're still compelled to wax poetic over your precious PC platform, slobber over it on some other forum.
I just wanted to make clear I wasn't trying to say get a pc over a mac. I just was comparing the opteron to the new and old g5s... and was wondering why apple didn't do the same.
As the day goes on i've been feeling a little better about the announcement. I knew back in march 3ghz wasn't going to happen... the timing wasn't there. The biggest disappointment to me is still 512k l2 cache and still sharing 1 memory controller... wish they could have solved that one.
Big Mac, I have been thinking for months about getting a PC, but have held off because I just wanted to see what they would do with the g5's. But in the end I have to get a PC, due to one reason... Maya runs better on a PC. I spent all last year using Maya on a Mac, and then when I started learning on a PC, the difference in it is huge. And also they don't even make Maya Unlimited for the Mac, only Maya complete - I don't know why they call it Complete when it is lacking certain features.
But I will be consoling myself over the decision to buy a PC, by also buying a new 12in iBook for all my other computing needs.
Besides the above reasons, I just can't justify the price of the g5's. I am a struggling student.
Big Mac, I have been thinking for months about getting a PC, but have held off because I just wanted to see what they would do with the g5's. But in the end I have to get a PC, due to one reason... Maya runs better on a PC. I spent all last year using Maya on a Mac, and then when I started learning on a PC, the difference in it is huge. And also they don't even make Maya Unlimited for the Mac, only Maya complete - I don't know why they call it Complete when it is lacking certain features.
But I will be consoling myself over the decision to buy a PC, by also buying a new 12in iBook for all my other computing needs.
Besides the above reasons, I just can't justify the price of the g5's. I am a struggling student.
Les.
You can justify the price by a few things,
#1. Re-Sell value. Macs hold reselling values so much higher then peeCee's do. I bought my 733 g4 in july 2001 for 1600... I sold it jan 1st 2004 for 850 dollars. Pretty good if you ask me.
#2. Better OS... we just won't get into this one "stable"
#3. Better quality hardware, translates to lasting longer then most pieced together pc's.
To me, that alone is worth the extra 500-1000 dollars. Not to mention all of the cool software you get for free.
------------------
will apple freaking change the damn keyboard!?!?! god that is the worst keyboard I have ever touched. I figured by the Rev b's they would have new keyboards!
I am a developer and spend a lot of my time on the top keys... angled keyboards don't work for me. The damn keyboard isn't adjustable!!
The idea here is expanding Apple's marketshare. Apple already owns the digital video and audio market. Not much to gain here.
But Apple currently has hardly any presence in the 3D market.
So do you mean that releasing 2x500MHz faster machines doesn't get Apple any closer to 3D pros?! Come on, guys, did you even look at the price? You get a 25% faster machine for the same $3k. Please, stop bitching. If you are such a professional, you can afford a better GPU. The fact is, 99% of computer users don't know what the hell Maya is. The fact is, Radeon 9600 XT doesn't suck for 99.99% people on earth. Why do you think Apple should offer anything more by default? There is no such thing like an ideal computer. If you need it, do it yourself, damnit. </rant>
Well, Apple failed with their '3 GHz this summer'. It's possible that we won't see PPC970fx at 3GHz at all. Of course, it's not stunningly good for His Steveness' reputation, but if you look at it the other way... Firstly, Apple admitted they failed. That's a pretty exceptional example of Apple's corporate behaviour. Secondly, we are still promised a 500MHz bump in a month. Remember where we were a year ago? Does anybody still recall G4 at 1.4GHz? I think it's alright for now.
I suspect that if Jobs kept his mouth shut about 3GHz, much more people would be happy now.
Comments
Originally posted by onlooker
Other than the Quadro FX 4000 there is all the room for expandability, (another optical drive bay is there, and when Tyan updates their motherboards to PCIe I can start swapping, and selling parts. If I want I can probably keep upgrading that computer there with new motherboards, and processors for years for 1/4th the cost of what it would cost to maintain a Mac with specs like that.
I'll probably be able to plug 3GHz AMD processors right into that motherboard there. You can't do that on a Mac the day IBM has new processors ready you can't just order them up, and throw them in. I'm actually pretty happy to move away from the Mac for a spell while they sort out their problems.
Have fun
Originally posted by hmurchison
I'm disappointed about the 3d cards but I find it fishy that the new Monitors weren't announced yet and even more interesting that they may be DVI. Methinks my #1 complaint will be taken care of shortly.
Just to follow up on that, I can recall at least one instance where new GPUs were introduced by ATI and added to the Power Mac line as CTO options. People shouldn't assume that the cards we have now are the cards we're going to have until the next revision.
I don't think so. Apart from the lack of internal HD bays, the biggest issue is still the lack of Pro graphics cards. You cannot really be serious about Maya without a Wildcat, Quadro or FireGL card. If you look at Alias' list of qualified video hardware all you get on the Mac side (if you scroll down) are 'Restrictions', 'Restricitons' and 'Restrictions'. Things just don't work right. And that's for Maya 6 which has only been introduced a month ago, so not much will change here soon.
In general however, Maya on the Mac is really huge, Alias in one press release said that 25% of new Maya licenses are for Macintosh, which is far more than the average Mac marketshare would suggest (whether it's 2.5, 3 or 5%). Apple should be proud! But things must not stop here, or the momentum will be lost and buyers will reconsider - as many in this thread show.
This is where I had hoped that revision B PowerMacs G5s would have PCI express and that Apple would switch back to DVI displays to make it easier for Pro graphic card manufacturers to port their hardware. Motto: every little helps.
My last hope is that perhaps with OS 10.4 things might change. Perhaps Pro graphic cards are missing due to certain features lacking in 10.3.
Apple has no ballz to put the real contender on there... the AMD Opteron. The Dual opterons will smoke the current g5s released today. They have on chip mem controllers... they have 1mb cache... they are clocked higher, they have more transistors... Why would apple try and compare to singles? Because they know the truth.
This is why I don't think today was a big deal. As far as I'm concerned this hardware is already 4 months old. I do think that the low end should have been dual 2 and there should have been a mediator between 2 and 2.5... 400mhz jump to a 1ghz jump... come on now.
Originally posted by mlnjr
This probably doesn't deserve a thread of its own since it's related to the new G5s, but has anyone noticed what's wrong with this picture?
Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm pretty sure the 1.8 GHz model shouldn't have been tested twice.
Apple should be proud! But things must not stop here, or the momentum will be lost and buyers will reconsider - as many in this thread show.
Oh you mean a couple of people looking at ugly Alienware computers and trying to convince me that extra drive bays and a few USB ports are worth spending as much on as a Mac?
Note the Alienware boxes don't have PCI Express either. If you decide to replace the Motherboard someday then you've wasted your money as anyone who feels comfortable swapping out hardware could build their own and beat that god awful Alienware price by at least a $1k
Everyone I've seen on the boards for digital video and Audio are happy with the 2.5 giggers. Oh yeah ..I forgot they actually make money with their computers rather than bytch about what whizzbang feature will come that generates no additional profits.
This is where I had hoped that revision B PowerMacs G5s would have PCI express and that Apple would switch back to DVI displays to make it easier for Pro graphic card manufacturers to port their hardware. Motto: every little helps.
If the new Apple LCDs ship with DVI you're halfway there. I've got my fingers crossed.
they are clocked higher
How does that explain 2.4Ghz being the highest speed listed
here on AMDs site
This is why I don't think today was a big deal. As far as I'm concerned this hardware is already 4 months old. I do think that the low end should have been dual 2 and there should have been a mediator between 2 and 2.5... 400mhz jump to a 1ghz jump... come on now.
Yes it's interesting that Apple didn't create a 2.2Ghz model. could the be stockpiling? Or do they not want to roll out Liquid Cooling in the midrange product.
As for the Opteron. My God have people been overhyping this chip. The ondie memory controll is beneficial in applications that are memory bound. Granted that's a decent lot of some apps but benches that aren't memory bound show the Opteron as being equal to a Xeon or PPC 970.
I'm not buying into the hype yet. When I see Final Cut Pro running multiple HD streams without stuttering In know a 2.5Ghz 970fx is nothing to sneeze at.
Originally posted by onlooker
Shredded Quote:
That was my point hmurchison. From what I see in there, and elsewhere, is people complaining about prices, and the reduced internal drive bay space for expandability.
I think the majority of people "want drives as cheaply as possible." That's basically exactly what I mean when I said that 8 ram slots were over rated.
Even when I'm using Maya, with it's built in rendering, or mental Ray. Both renderers stop using additional ram resources when they need no more. I've loaded up scenes with pixels in the Multi millions, and they have never used close to 4GB ram they don't need it. Neither does Photoshop, Painter, ZBrush, Alias Sketchbook Pro. UT2K4, Americas Army the list go's on. . I cant think of an app I use that's actually asked for that kind of memory, but then again that was not my original point. It was about what most people were interested in, and I think it's Cheap HD expansion over another 4GB of RAM.
Take a poll. I think they A) #1 don't have the ram filled, but
I would rather have ram slots then hd bays. The point isn't that 1 app uses 4 gb of ram. What would be wrong with having shake, fcp, maya, cinema 4d all open at once? I don't know one person that opens 1 program at a time.
Todays programming languages are getting so highlevel and there is so much memory overhead going on. They are becoming memory hogs because companies are trying to make programming easy. Java and C# are perfect examples... they need the extra overhead for memory management.
I do agree that the macs are starving for better graphics cards. I think that was the biggest let down of the day... no pci-e... so to me these machines will be extinct by 2006... when quartz extreme isn't quartz extreme any more. Really the biggest potential improvement in OS Gui's is through 3d... 2d can only be thought of so many ways... OS's will require some really intense graphics in the coming future.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Everyone I've seen on the boards for digital video and Audio are happy with the 2.5 giggers.
I think you miss the point. The idea here is expanding Apple's marketshare. Apple already owns the digital video and audio market. Not much to gain here.
But Apple currently has hardly any presence in the 3D market. Yet with Maya for Mac OS X Apple for the first time has a real opportunity to make inroads, to gain marketshare. Apple can't be sitting on their hands - or they'll lose that chance.
Apple should do all it can to help, even if it means they have to write the driver for one of these Pro cards themselves. Afterall, do they want to expand into a new market or not?
I wasn't talking about Alienware either. In my book the bigger contender is Boxx Tech. They're cheaper and reportedly better.
And if you look at the GoBOXX Key Specs (bottom right hand corner) you can get an idea what a portable 3D workstation really needs to look like - as opposed to a 17" PowerBook with 1.5GHz.
It's really not about bytching at all. It's about an opportunity for Apple, which should not be lost, because that would be a shame.
But then again, maybe Apple is happy with its iTunes and iMovie and no longer gives anything about the 3D market...
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Indeed...this is totally unacceptable. I would of rather not seen an upgrade at all than be stuck with this shit for another 4-9 months. Adding to the injury, this is definitely not the new 970s we've been hearing about for 9 months if the the computers require water-cooling. No decent price drop on the low-end either.
Happy 20th fucking birthday Macintosh!
I'll tell you what is going on. IBM is probably only getting good yields of 2.2 Ghz chips and then is overclocking them to make up for the low yields of higher clocked chips. These chips are supposed to run cooler than the first gen G5s. If they had the chip runs cranking like they had hoped we would be seeing 2.5 Gig chips running air cooled and 3 gigers overclocked with water cooling.
But does anyone else think Steve Jobs was a pussy to have someone else announce that 3ghz wasn't in the "Forseeable future"?
Originally posted by Existence
XP is less than 3 years old, not five. Even Windows 2000, on which XP is based upon, is not 4 years old yet.
Utter FUD. Longhorn will run on practically anything modern (Penitum 2+ with sufficient RAM). For all the gooey features, one does need 8x AGP and a Direct X9 128MB video card, both qualifications the Alienware meets.
XP and 2k might not be over 5 years old but MOST of the code they are written and based off of ... IS!
I try to look at this from many different viewpoints. strategically, polically etc. We already knew that this series would likely be RevB. Large architecture changes are unlikely. Once you have a mobo working well it's doubtful you'll want to scrap it.
There's a $50 difference between the FX card and the 9600. Makes me think Apple wanted to make sure the lineup promoted both Ati and Nvidia cards. It's important that both compete for Apples attention and business.
Timing- This hardware was likely completed months ago. We've been waiting and waiting. I'd bet money that they had to go back to the drawing board once they found out that the 970fx at 2.5Ghz was thermally difficult without another cooling method. That's more time.
Apple LOVES technology. They want to give you everything they can but sometimes you just have to keep the natives at bay and keep your head working on the next big thing.
Architosh reports that Apple wants to use Hypertransport 2. PCI Express is a must as well. The larger changes are coming...just not now.
I look forward to the future. We're right there in the hunt. Opterons are faster..but seconds and not minutes. The gap has been cloeed on hardware. Not it's time for Apple to shine where they do their best in. Software.
One thing I don't understand is how there can be a 50 dollar difference between a 5200fx and a 9600xt.
I also don't understand why the 5200fx was the lsat nvidia graphics card to be released for the mac. It's such a POS card and so many other geforce cards are so much better...
The problem I have with your theory of the hardware being completed months ago... is there is still an august shipping date for the dual 2.5's... yes august... I put an order in today and it said 8 - 9 weeks.
If the 2 other machines are water cooled and the hardware was completed back then, then there should be high yields of 970fx 2.5s. Just a theory... but I have a feeling ibm still isn't running 100% with yields... disagree?
Originally posted by hmurchison
Hobbit
I try to look at this from many different viewpoints. strategically, polically etc. We already knew that this series would likely be RevB. Large architecture changes are unlikely. Once you have a mobo working well it's doubtful you'll want to scrap it.
There's a $50 difference between the FX card and the 9600. Makes me think Apple wanted to make sure the lineup promoted both Ati and Nvidia cards. It's important that both compete for Apples attention and business.
Timing- This hardware was likely completed months ago. We've been waiting and waiting. I'd bet money that they had to go back to the drawing board once they found out that the 970fx at 2.5Ghz was thermally difficult without another cooling method. That's more time.
Apple LOVES technology. They want to give you everything they can but sometimes you just have to keep the natives at bay and keep your head working on the next big thing.
Architosh reports that Apple wants to use Hypertransport 2. PCI Express is a must as well. The larger changes are coming...just not now.
I look forward to the future. We're right there in the hunt. Opterons are faster..but seconds and not minutes. The gap has been cloeed on hardware. Not it's time for Apple to shine where they do their best in. Software.
Originally posted by cbutter
I'll tell you what is going on. IBM is probably only getting good yields of 2.2 Ghz chips and then is overclocking them to make up for the low yields of higher clocked chips. These chips are supposed to run cooler than the first gen G5s. If they had the chip runs cranking like they had hoped we would be seeing 2.5 Gig chips running air cooled and 3 gigers overclocked with water cooling.
I'm no chip expert, but I've seen this overclocking stuff discussed many times and I don't think it has any validity. Chips are tested and certified for a given speed. I'm sure there is a margin of safety built in, but that doesn't mean they can crank them up and and erase that margin. That would make a mockery of the entire certification process and render it meaningless.
Those of you who are ignorantly advocating a switch to AMD or Intel don't realize that such a transition would literally kill Apple. Take a breath; think before you post. And if you're still compelled to wax poetic over your precious PC platform, slobber over it on some other forum.
Originally posted by Big Mac
Those of you who are ignorantly advocating a switch to AMD or Intel don't realize that such a transition would literally kill Apple. Take a breath; think before you post. And if you're still compelled to wax poetic over your precious PC platform, slobber over it on some other forum.
I just wanted to make clear I wasn't trying to say get a pc over a mac. I just was comparing the opteron to the new and old g5s... and was wondering why apple didn't do the same.
As the day goes on i've been feeling a little better about the announcement. I knew back in march 3ghz wasn't going to happen... the timing wasn't there. The biggest disappointment to me is still 512k l2 cache and still sharing 1 memory controller... wish they could have solved that one.
But I will be consoling myself over the decision to buy a PC, by also buying a new 12in iBook for all my other computing needs.
Besides the above reasons, I just can't justify the price of the g5's. I am a struggling student.
Les.
Originally posted by les t
Big Mac, I have been thinking for months about getting a PC, but have held off because I just wanted to see what they would do with the g5's. But in the end I have to get a PC, due to one reason... Maya runs better on a PC. I spent all last year using Maya on a Mac, and then when I started learning on a PC, the difference in it is huge. And also they don't even make Maya Unlimited for the Mac, only Maya complete - I don't know why they call it Complete when it is lacking certain features.
But I will be consoling myself over the decision to buy a PC, by also buying a new 12in iBook for all my other computing needs.
Besides the above reasons, I just can't justify the price of the g5's. I am a struggling student.
Les.
You can justify the price by a few things,
#1. Re-Sell value. Macs hold reselling values so much higher then peeCee's do. I bought my 733 g4 in july 2001 for 1600... I sold it jan 1st 2004 for 850 dollars. Pretty good if you ask me.
#2. Better OS... we just won't get into this one
#3. Better quality hardware, translates to lasting longer then most pieced together pc's.
To me, that alone is worth the extra 500-1000 dollars. Not to mention all of the cool software you get for free.
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will apple freaking change the damn keyboard!?!?! god that is the worst keyboard I have ever touched. I figured by the Rev b's they would have new keyboards!
I am a developer and spend a lot of my time on the top keys... angled keyboards don't work for me. The damn keyboard isn't adjustable!!
Originally posted by hobBIT
The idea here is expanding Apple's marketshare. Apple already owns the digital video and audio market. Not much to gain here.
But Apple currently has hardly any presence in the 3D market.
So do you mean that releasing 2x500MHz faster machines doesn't get Apple any closer to 3D pros?! Come on, guys, did you even look at the price? You get a 25% faster machine for the same $3k. Please, stop bitching. If you are such a professional, you can afford a better GPU. The fact is, 99% of computer users don't know what the hell Maya is. The fact is, Radeon 9600 XT doesn't suck for 99.99% people on earth. Why do you think Apple should offer anything more by default? There is no such thing like an ideal computer. If you need it, do it yourself, damnit. </rant>
Well, Apple failed with their '3 GHz this summer'. It's possible that we won't see PPC970fx at 3GHz at all. Of course, it's not stunningly good for His Steveness' reputation, but if you look at it the other way... Firstly, Apple admitted they failed. That's a pretty exceptional example of Apple's corporate behaviour. Secondly, we are still promised a 500MHz bump in a month. Remember where we were a year ago? Does anybody still recall G4 at 1.4GHz? I think it's alright for now.
I suspect that if Jobs kept his mouth shut about 3GHz, much more people would be happy now.