That's naive. Get your panties out of a bunch and go tell that, what you just said to me, to everyone you ever hear complain about Bush and the liberal media.
Sounds like you're the one with his panties in a bunch. People bitched about the liberal media during Reagan's presidency. He rose above that. That's a complaint that has never held much water for me.
Sounds like you're the one with his panties in a bunch. People bitched about the liberal media during Reagan's presidency. He rose above that. That's a complaint that has never held much water for me.
Funny I'm 51 so I was an adult then and I don't remember that.
Clinton's presidency is what it was. He did some good things and he did some bad things. He owns responsibility for his own failings not somebody else.
Except "his failings" had no bearing on the governance of the country.
And those failings only came to light after an extensive fishing expedition by an out-of-control special prosecutor whose own staff were telling him he had no basis to proceed (beyond Whitewater).
Who in government could endure an $80 million investigation with powers of subpoena and no actual goal beyond finding something, anything, for which they could be hung?
So tell me. From all those speeches Clinton gave during his presidency or from any of his interviews and press conferences, what are some of the most memorable things he actually said during his presidency? What will people remember 50 years from now? I know what people think of when remembering famous Reagan quotes. Ditto for Truman, FDR, JFK...
I remember quite a few: End welfare as we know it. Era of big government is over. Putting people first. I also remember some of the things he stood for and did, even if I don't link them to a specific catch phrase: Fiscal responsibility. Expanded trade. Success in Yugoslavia.
I remember quite a few: End welfare as we know it. Era of big government is over. Putting people first. I also remember some of the things he stood for and did, even if I don't link them to a specific catch phrase: Fiscal responsibility. Expanded trade. Success in Yugoslavia.
I remember quite a few: End welfare as we know it. Era of big government is over...
And he did sign welfare reform into law after a GOP Congress repeatedly sent him the bill. As for saying the era of big government was over, that was certainly memorable but it came after his party was repudiated in the '94 elections. He was responding to events not shaping them.
And he did sign welfare reform into law after a GOP Congress repeatedly sent him the bill. As for saying the era of big government was over, that was certainly memorable but it came after his party was repudiated in the '94 elections. He was responding to events not shaping them.
Clinton ran on welfare reform in 1992. Sure he responded to events. So has W. I guess it's how you respond that counts.
Yes he did but he never quite got around to submitting his own welfare reform bill to Congress. That's the difference between campaign promises and actual governance.
Yes he did but he never quite got around to submitting his own welfare reform bill to Congress. That's the difference between campaign promises and actual governance.
I don't think it can be argued that Clinton didn't stand for anything or didn't propose anything ambitious. If anything, he was overly ambitious, and that's why the Dems got killed by the Republicans in 1994.
It sounds like you're holding him to a much higher standard. Do you think anything Reagan or Bush II said came from themselves? (Besides the malapropisms, of course. And Clinton did write a lot of his speeches.)
I don't think it can be argued that Clinton didn't stand for anything or didn't propose anything ambitious. If anything, he was overly ambitious, and that's why the Dems got killed by the Republicans in 1994.
They got killed, in part, because of the GAP between what Clinton supposedly stood for during the the '92 election and the way he actually governed. During the campaign Clinton promised a middle class tax cut. Once elected he pushed through the largest tax increase in history. Hillary's health care plan wasn't part of the debate in '92. Nor was the issue of gays in the military.
And after the tax bill was passed and after Hillarycare went down in flames, Clinton DIDN'T propose anything ambitious. He became a master of small gestures. What he stood for was "triangulation".
Comments
Originally posted by midwinter
That's naive. Get your panties out of a bunch and go tell that, what you just said to me, to everyone you ever hear complain about Bush and the liberal media.
Sounds like you're the one with his panties in a bunch. People bitched about the liberal media during Reagan's presidency. He rose above that. That's a complaint that has never held much water for me.
Originally posted by zaphod_beeblebrox
Sounds like you're the one with his panties in a bunch. People bitched about the liberal media during Reagan's presidency. He rose above that. That's a complaint that has never held much water for me.
Funny I'm 51 so I was an adult then and I don't remember that.
How old are you?
Originally posted by zaphod_beeblebrox
Is that where you went for your quotes? Or were those the first things you thought of when I asked the question? Be honest now.
Things I remember. Those are both from his campaign in 92'. I'm 51 and was an adult back then so I remember very well. How old are you?
Originally posted by zaphod_beeblebrox
Clinton's presidency is what it was. He did some good things and he did some bad things. He owns responsibility for his own failings not somebody else.
Except "his failings" had no bearing on the governance of the country.
And those failings only came to light after an extensive fishing expedition by an out-of-control special prosecutor whose own staff were telling him he had no basis to proceed (beyond Whitewater).
Who in government could endure an $80 million investigation with powers of subpoena and no actual goal beyond finding something, anything, for which they could be hung?
Originally posted by zaphod_beeblebrox
So tell me. From all those speeches Clinton gave during his presidency or from any of his interviews and press conferences, what are some of the most memorable things he actually said during his presidency? What will people remember 50 years from now? I know what people think of when remembering famous Reagan quotes. Ditto for Truman, FDR, JFK...
I remember quite a few: End welfare as we know it. Era of big government is over. Putting people first. I also remember some of the things he stood for and did, even if I don't link them to a specific catch phrase: Fiscal responsibility. Expanded trade. Success in Yugoslavia.
Originally posted by BRussell
I remember quite a few: End welfare as we know it. Era of big government is over. Putting people first. I also remember some of the things he stood for and did, even if I don't link them to a specific catch phrase: Fiscal responsibility. Expanded trade. Success in Yugoslavia.
You forgot " Balance the budget ".
Originally posted by BRussell
I remember quite a few: End welfare as we know it. Era of big government is over...
And he did sign welfare reform into law after a GOP Congress repeatedly sent him the bill. As for saying the era of big government was over, that was certainly memorable but it came after his party was repudiated in the '94 elections. He was responding to events not shaping them.
Originally posted by jimmac
Funny I'm 51 so I was an adult then and I don't remember that.
51 and already losing your memory. That's too bad.
Originally posted by Powerdoc
When Hillary was still a student, she talk to one of her best friend after her first rendez-vous with Bill. (...)
That's Randy Woo, you cheese eating surrender monkey... hehe
Originally posted by zaphod_beeblebrox
51 and already losing your memory. That's too bad.
In other words you were a youngster back then eh?
Originally posted by zaphod_beeblebrox
And he did sign welfare reform into law after a GOP Congress repeatedly sent him the bill. As for saying the era of big government was over, that was certainly memorable but it came after his party was repudiated in the '94 elections. He was responding to events not shaping them.
Clinton ran on welfare reform in 1992. Sure he responded to events. So has W. I guess it's how you respond that counts.
Originally posted by BRussell
Clinton ran on welfare reform in 1992...
Yes he did but he never quite got around to submitting his own welfare reform bill to Congress. That's the difference between campaign promises and actual governance.
Originally posted by jimmac
In other words you were a youngster back then eh?
I'm just old enough to have had the opportunity to vote for Reagan two times but I never did. With the passage of time I changed my mind about him.
Originally posted by zaphod_beeblebrox
I'm just old enough to have had the opportunity to vote for Reagan two times but I never did. With the passage of time I changed my mind about him.
Well those two phrases were sort of buzz phrases for the campaign and were quotes from Clinton.
Originally posted by jimmac
Well those two phrases were sort of buzz phrases for the campaign and were quotes from Clinton.
Actually, wasn't "It's the economy, stupid" a sign that they had in their campaign headquarters?
Originally posted by midwinter
Actually, wasn't "It's the economy, stupid" a sign that they had in their campaign headquarters?
I'll have to check on that one but you could be right.
It was the Clinton / Gore campaign slogan but I thought Clinton came up with the saying.
Originally posted by jimmac
I'll have to check on that one but you could be right.
It was the Clinton / Gore campaign slogan but I thought Clinton came up with the saying.
"It's the economy, stupid." came from Carville.
Originally posted by zaphod_beeblebrox
Yes he did but he never quite got around to submitting his own welfare reform bill to Congress. That's the difference between campaign promises and actual governance.
I don't think it can be argued that Clinton didn't stand for anything or didn't propose anything ambitious. If anything, he was overly ambitious, and that's why the Dems got killed by the Republicans in 1994.
Originally posted by zaphod_beeblebrox
"It's the economy, stupid." came from Carville.
It sounds like you're holding him to a much higher standard. Do you think anything Reagan or Bush II said came from themselves? (Besides the malapropisms, of course. And Clinton did write a lot of his speeches.)
Originally posted by BRussell
I don't think it can be argued that Clinton didn't stand for anything or didn't propose anything ambitious. If anything, he was overly ambitious, and that's why the Dems got killed by the Republicans in 1994.
They got killed, in part, because of the GAP between what Clinton supposedly stood for during the the '92 election and the way he actually governed. During the campaign Clinton promised a middle class tax cut. Once elected he pushed through the largest tax increase in history. Hillary's health care plan wasn't part of the debate in '92. Nor was the issue of gays in the military.
And after the tax bill was passed and after Hillarycare went down in flames, Clinton DIDN'T propose anything ambitious. He became a master of small gestures. What he stood for was "triangulation".