It's strange to me that people find this keynote to be boring.
I could not agree more. It was a developer-oriented keynote, and particularly juicy at that. What else could you expect?
Perhaps people waited the G5 iMacs, though a simple reality check showed this was beyond any real expectation.
For me, one of the most interesting additions in Tiger, is a new Xcode feature: gcc 3.5 with auto-vectorization. I think this is huge. After, what, 5 years of processors equipped with the Altivec unit, it is the first time that the compiled applications will benefit automatically from the vector processing unit without manual coding. Even if the benefits are minimal, auto-vectorization was long overdue and will help new programmers to fully use the processor.
Damnit. Tiger looks stellar. It was a good WWDC. Not great but good. The new MP4 Part 10 looks juicy and Spotlight etc will just make OS X that much quicker to use. (Doesn't XP feel like a kludge without Exposé and the like!!!)
However I hope they update the iPod mini soon. It's a great product but with pisspoor space. It either needs to get cheaper or double (triple?) storage.
Just when analysts started boosting apples stock... they go and pull this lame-o keynote. I find it funny they are taking pot shots at Microsoft "Redmond, we have a problem".. when they have 3% or less market share, an elderly consumer level product line and missed projections on the PowerMacs.. Bill Gates must laugh his arse off at Apple.
Hardware isn't what drives the market as much as solid development for the platform and there is a lot in Tiger for both consumers and developers. I expect Bill Gates will be jumping on his teams to copy it as fast as they can.
One area this release could really push macs is more into the HPC market, where 64 bit Unix and Linux is already widespread.
However I hope they update the iPod mini soon. It's a great product but with pisspoor space. It either needs to get cheaper or double (triple?) storage.
um...considering that apple has a 4 week wait on them in the US alone I think you are wrong
Hardware isn't what drives the market as much as solid development for the platform and there is a lot in Tiger for both consumers and developers....
Maybe, but as the Amega, OS /2, Next, and BeOS clearly demonstrate if you do not have the market base to support the development then you do not attract the developers. Apple needs to do more to address this than they are with their current 10+ "minor" hardware upgrade cycle. A new, well though out desktop could do this, as would an overdue update to the iMac G4. Apple needs some products to bring excitement back to their hardware. The anouncements so far this year are so-so to disapointing when based on the hints of exciting things to come from Apple this year they gave last winter at the keynote.
The iMac is going to be key. Apple needs another grandslam product that sells by the bushels.
Tiger has convinced me that the software part of the bargain is in good hands. Now let's get some nice consumer computers that will show what the Apple developers have worked so hard on.
BTW Core Image and Video have the potential to really revolutionize app design. I imagine dragging an image into my word processor and not liking it and applying a few effects to it without having to go back to my image editior application.
I had no idea they'd be using AVC so fast. iChat AV and AVC go hand in hand. Perhaps Core video is providing the heavy lifting for encoding the AVC video leaving the CPU to handle the connection.
The iMac is going to be key. Apple needs another grandslam product that sells by the bushels...
Yes they do, they also need to generate some "excitement" the second half of the year. The first half had potential, and if there regular hardware updates were on time Apple's other announcements probably would have received more fan fare.
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
... I imagine dragging an image into my word processor and not liking it and applying a few effects to it without having to go back to my image editor application...
Isn't that what OpenDoc was supposed to your desktop, document based applications rather than application based documents. It failed to get full developer support before, I don't think that we will see it work now. Even Adobe does not have that within their own "Creative Suite." That is not saying that it is not an exciting development.
What I think is the most important announcement is the 64 bitness of 10.4 and their development environment. It points a clear way foreword. All that is remaining is the consumer and portable 64 bit processors and it is full speed ahead for 64 bit applications. This could help Apple sell to corporate clients, which in turn will help drive consumer sales as people tend to want the same type of computer at home as they have at work in case they have to bring work home.
Access to the 64bit pointers will require the machines to be able to support more memory.
You don't need gigantic amounts of memory, just more than 4GB (and, of course, processes that are developed to use more than 4GB, hence 64bit addressing's appearance at WWDC).
As the owner of a 15.2" PB 1.25 and dual 2.0 PM, I was pissed off. I spent an hour to find out about a new display. I have a 23" cinema and don't need 30". I wanted an apple version of windows media center.
Isn't that what OpenDoc was supposed to your desktop, document based applications rather than application based documents. It failed to get full developer support before, I don't think that we will see it work now. Even Adobe does not have that within their own "Creative Suite." That is not saying that it is not an exciting development.
Yeah pretty much like that. OpenDoc broke applications down into functional components that could be utilized anywhere. What excites me about Core Image/Video is this.
Today:
Basing your app around QT gives your app the benefits of the GT frameworks. However QT's architecture got pretty creaky and doesn't deal well with plenty of apps accessing it.
Tomorrow:
Core Image and Video should allow me to tap into a more modern Image and Video system that is built as a hub for applications. The API should multitask well and support alot of apps accessing it simultaneously. Then the coup de grace will be I save cpu cycles by offloading to the GPU.
Thus I've moved away from slower and inefficient QT frameworks and moved to a modern system that leverages my GPU for number crunching things that would have taxed my CPU to render.
Mark my words there will be a few very cool applications 2H 2005 using this. Plus the faster your GPU gets the faster the application gets. Instant scaleability and ATI and Nvidia are loving Apple for this.
...Mark my words there will be a few very cool applications 2H 2005 using this. Plus the faster your GPU gets the faster the application gets. Instant scaleability and ATI and Nvidia are loving Apple for this.
Not really, unless Apple releases a consumer oriented computer for ATI and Nvidia to sell processor upgrades to, untill then Apple's upgrade market will continue to be too small for ATI and Nvidia (who doesn't even offer a retail version of any of their cards out side of Apple branded versions) to take seriously.
As to the framework and application interoperability you need to get the developers, like Microsoft and Adobe, to support it. The smaller developers may come out with interesting products but they don't have the market saturation or power to make a real difference in the programs that we use every day.
As the owner of a 15.2" PB 1.25 and dual 2.0 PM, I was pissed off. I spent an hour to find out about a new display. I have a 23" cinema and don't need 30". I wanted an apple version of windows media center.
Summarized as quite disappointed
that is consumer, the show today is about DEVELOPER, wait till apple expo in paris
As to the framework and application interoperability you need to get the developers, like Microsoft and Adobe, to support it. The smaller developers may come out with interesting products but they don't have the market saturation or power to make a real difference in the programs that we use every day
I have to disagree here. Apple made the comment that they hope Adobe hops on board with the new functions but let's bet honest here. Adobe and MS have been handling vital portions of code themselves. Things like malloc and UI widgets in these apps have bypassed Apple tools. This is likely due to their desire to keep as much code cross platform as possible. Apple is slyling making it easier and easier for a smaller developer to compete with the Adobe's and MS by using Apple tools that do the heavy lifting. Core Image/Video are extensible through plugins and if Audio Unites are any indication of the reception that Image and Video Units will receive then prepare for the smaller developers to ship nifty products.
Apple's strategy is fairly clear. If they can't compete directly with Adobe and MS in areas they will ensure smaller devs have the tools to do so if they wish. Audio is undergoing the same transformation. I can buy plenty of Audio Unit synths and effects that are quite capable and generally programmed by no more than two developers.
Imagine what Core Image/Video is going to do for companies like iView Multimedia and Graphic Converter.
Imagine Graphic Converter's import/export modules becoming Image Units, and then GC becomes a thin app over the Core Image system. Just need the translators? Buy the IUs, script or program it yourself. Want an end-user app? Buy GC + IUs.
That's precisely what these moves are for: to enable the small developer and foment innovation for entire swathes of applications genres, not just bolster up a few big publishers.
Personally, I think Adobe and such are going to have to scramble a bit to provide functionality over what a small dev house could easily provide now, for most users. I'd hazard 99% of the PShop users out there don't need the full app, and would be thrilled by a lighter weight app that accesses a rich set of IUs.
Do you think perhaps, that Apple is in effect "training" Mac users on how to utilize metadata in the OS with searches and smart folders?
My thoughts are if Apple is able to acclimate it's end users in searching and creating folders with rich metadata then the eventual move to a new fs infused with metadata is much easier. It would seem that the transition to a new fs would be quite transparent to the end user once they are comfortable with utilizing metada. The developers would seem to shoulder the brunt here.
Methinks 10.5 builds on Spotlight by ushering in a new fs with metadata to square off against Longhorn. All the squabbling about Index files versus mean nothing to users who are wholly unfamiliar with the concept today. Give'em 2-3 years and that'll be another story.
Imagine Graphic Converter's import/export modules becoming Image Units, and then GC becomes a thin app over the Core Image system. Just need the translators? Buy the IUs, script or program it yourself. Want an end-user app? Buy GC + IUs.
That's precisely what these moves are for: to enable the small developer and foment innovation for entire swathes of applications genres, not just bolster up a few big publishers.
Personally, I think Adobe and such are going to have to scramble a bit to provide functionality over what a small dev house could easily provide now, for most users. I'd hazard 99% of the PShop users out there don't need the full app, and would be thrilled by a lighter weight app that accesses a rich set of IUs.
So you think adobe should have an alternative for the 99%?
THEY DO, it is called Eliments, and as far as I know, it hasn't exactly erroded the Pshop user base.
Comments
Originally posted by hmurchison
It's strange to me that people find this keynote to be boring.
I could not agree more. It was a developer-oriented keynote, and particularly juicy at that. What else could you expect?
Perhaps people waited the G5 iMacs, though a simple reality check showed this was beyond any real expectation.
For me, one of the most interesting additions in Tiger, is a new Xcode feature: gcc 3.5 with auto-vectorization. I think this is huge. After, what, 5 years of processors equipped with the Altivec unit, it is the first time that the compiled applications will benefit automatically from the vector processing unit without manual coding. Even if the benefits are minimal, auto-vectorization was long overdue and will help new programmers to fully use the processor.
OK, we'll have to upgrade to G5 equipped machines. The front edge of the forward curve comes at a bit of a price...
However I hope they update the iPod mini soon. It's a great product but with pisspoor space. It either needs to get cheaper or double (triple?) storage.
Dobby.
Originally posted by utsava
Just when analysts started boosting apples stock... they go and pull this lame-o keynote. I find it funny they are taking pot shots at Microsoft "Redmond, we have a problem".. when they have 3% or less market share, an elderly consumer level product line and missed projections on the PowerMacs.. Bill Gates must laugh his arse off at Apple.
Hardware isn't what drives the market as much as solid development for the platform and there is a lot in Tiger for both consumers and developers. I expect Bill Gates will be jumping on his teams to copy it as fast as they can.
One area this release could really push macs is more into the HPC market, where 64 bit Unix and Linux is already widespread.
Originally posted by Aquatic
However I hope they update the iPod mini soon. It's a great product but with pisspoor space. It either needs to get cheaper or double (triple?) storage.
um...considering that apple has a 4 week wait on them in the US alone I think you are wrong
Originally posted by Telomar
Hardware isn't what drives the market as much as solid development for the platform and there is a lot in Tiger for both consumers and developers....
Maybe, but as the Amega, OS /2, Next, and BeOS clearly demonstrate if you do not have the market base to support the development then you do not attract the developers. Apple needs to do more to address this than they are with their current 10+ "minor" hardware upgrade cycle. A new, well though out desktop could do this, as would an overdue update to the iMac G4. Apple needs some products to bring excitement back to their hardware. The anouncements so far this year are so-so to disapointing when based on the hints of exciting things to come from Apple this year they gave last winter at the keynote.
Tiger has convinced me that the software part of the bargain is in good hands. Now let's get some nice consumer computers that will show what the Apple developers have worked so hard on.
BTW Core Image and Video have the potential to really revolutionize app design. I imagine dragging an image into my word processor and not liking it and applying a few effects to it without having to go back to my image editior application.
I had no idea they'd be using AVC so fast. iChat AV and AVC go hand in hand. Perhaps Core video is providing the heavy lifting for encoding the AVC video leaving the CPU to handle the connection.
Originally posted by hmurchison
The iMac is going to be key. Apple needs another grandslam product that sells by the bushels...
Yes they do, they also need to generate some "excitement" the second half of the year. The first half had potential, and if there regular hardware updates were on time Apple's other announcements probably would have received more fan fare.
Originally posted by hmurchison
... I imagine dragging an image into my word processor and not liking it and applying a few effects to it without having to go back to my image editor application...
Isn't that what OpenDoc was supposed to your desktop, document based applications rather than application based documents. It failed to get full developer support before, I don't think that we will see it work now. Even Adobe does not have that within their own "Creative Suite." That is not saying that it is not an exciting development.
What I think is the most important announcement is the 64 bitness of 10.4 and their development environment. It points a clear way foreword. All that is remaining is the consumer and portable 64 bit processors and it is full speed ahead for 64 bit applications. This could help Apple sell to corporate clients, which in turn will help drive consumer sales as people tend to want the same type of computer at home as they have at work in case they have to bring work home.
yes, then scroll down a bit...
Clearly, a larger monitor is required.
Access to the 64bit pointers will require the machines to be able to support more memory.
You don't need gigantic amounts of memory, just more than 4GB (and, of course, processes that are developed to use more than 4GB, hence 64bit addressing's appearance at WWDC).
AUTO VECTORISATION? In gcc ? HOW DID I MISS THAT?
Summarized as quite disappointed
Isn't that what OpenDoc was supposed to your desktop, document based applications rather than application based documents. It failed to get full developer support before, I don't think that we will see it work now. Even Adobe does not have that within their own "Creative Suite." That is not saying that it is not an exciting development.
Yeah pretty much like that. OpenDoc broke applications down into functional components that could be utilized anywhere. What excites me about Core Image/Video is this.
Today:
Basing your app around QT gives your app the benefits of the GT frameworks. However QT's architecture got pretty creaky and doesn't deal well with plenty of apps accessing it.
Tomorrow:
Core Image and Video should allow me to tap into a more modern Image and Video system that is built as a hub for applications. The API should multitask well and support alot of apps accessing it simultaneously. Then the coup de grace will be I save cpu cycles by offloading to the GPU.
Thus I've moved away from slower and inefficient QT frameworks and moved to a modern system that leverages my GPU for number crunching things that would have taxed my CPU to render.
Mark my words there will be a few very cool applications 2H 2005 using this. Plus the faster your GPU gets the faster the application gets. Instant scaleability and ATI and Nvidia are loving Apple for this.
Originally posted by hmurchison
...Mark my words there will be a few very cool applications 2H 2005 using this. Plus the faster your GPU gets the faster the application gets. Instant scaleability and ATI and Nvidia are loving Apple for this.
Not really, unless Apple releases a consumer oriented computer for ATI and Nvidia to sell processor upgrades to, untill then Apple's upgrade market will continue to be too small for ATI and Nvidia (who doesn't even offer a retail version of any of their cards out side of Apple branded versions) to take seriously.
As to the framework and application interoperability you need to get the developers, like Microsoft and Adobe, to support it. The smaller developers may come out with interesting products but they don't have the market saturation or power to make a real difference in the programs that we use every day.
Originally posted by richcigar
As the owner of a 15.2" PB 1.25 and dual 2.0 PM, I was pissed off. I spent an hour to find out about a new display. I have a 23" cinema and don't need 30". I wanted an apple version of windows media center.
Summarized as quite disappointed
that is consumer, the show today is about DEVELOPER, wait till apple expo in paris
Originally posted by hardhead
Think about it people, hardware desires aside, we now have access to the world's sweetst 64bit HOME and work operating system...rejoice!
OK, we'll have to upgrade to G5 equipped machines. The front edge of the forward curve comes at a bit of a price...
So you are saying tiger will only work for G5's? How about G4's?
As to the framework and application interoperability you need to get the developers, like Microsoft and Adobe, to support it. The smaller developers may come out with interesting products but they don't have the market saturation or power to make a real difference in the programs that we use every day
I have to disagree here. Apple made the comment that they hope Adobe hops on board with the new functions but let's bet honest here. Adobe and MS have been handling vital portions of code themselves. Things like malloc and UI widgets in these apps have bypassed Apple tools. This is likely due to their desire to keep as much code cross platform as possible. Apple is slyling making it easier and easier for a smaller developer to compete with the Adobe's and MS by using Apple tools that do the heavy lifting. Core Image/Video are extensible through plugins and if Audio Unites are any indication of the reception that Image and Video Units will receive then prepare for the smaller developers to ship nifty products.
Apple's strategy is fairly clear. If they can't compete directly with Adobe and MS in areas they will ensure smaller devs have the tools to do so if they wish. Audio is undergoing the same transformation. I can buy plenty of Audio Unit synths and effects that are quite capable and generally programmed by no more than two developers.
Imagine what Core Image/Video is going to do for companies like iView Multimedia and Graphic Converter.
Imagine Graphic Converter's import/export modules becoming Image Units, and then GC becomes a thin app over the Core Image system. Just need the translators? Buy the IUs, script or program it yourself. Want an end-user app? Buy GC + IUs.
That's precisely what these moves are for: to enable the small developer and foment innovation for entire swathes of applications genres, not just bolster up a few big publishers.
Personally, I think Adobe and such are going to have to scramble a bit to provide functionality over what a small dev house could easily provide now, for most users. I'd hazard 99% of the PShop users out there don't need the full app, and would be thrilled by a lighter weight app that accesses a rich set of IUs.
I am happy that coreimage works with the graphics card on my 17 inch Flat panel iMac. /phew.
Re Spotlight
Do you think perhaps, that Apple is in effect "training" Mac users on how to utilize metadata in the OS with searches and smart folders?
My thoughts are if Apple is able to acclimate it's end users in searching and creating folders with rich metadata then the eventual move to a new fs infused with metadata is much easier. It would seem that the transition to a new fs would be quite transparent to the end user once they are comfortable with utilizing metada. The developers would seem to shoulder the brunt here.
Methinks 10.5 builds on Spotlight by ushering in a new fs with metadata to square off against Longhorn. All the squabbling about Index files versus mean nothing to users who are wholly unfamiliar with the concept today. Give'em 2-3 years and that'll be another story.
Originally posted by Kickaha
Oh god yes.
Imagine Graphic Converter's import/export modules becoming Image Units, and then GC becomes a thin app over the Core Image system. Just need the translators? Buy the IUs, script or program it yourself. Want an end-user app? Buy GC + IUs.
That's precisely what these moves are for: to enable the small developer and foment innovation for entire swathes of applications genres, not just bolster up a few big publishers.
Personally, I think Adobe and such are going to have to scramble a bit to provide functionality over what a small dev house could easily provide now, for most users. I'd hazard 99% of the PShop users out there don't need the full app, and would be thrilled by a lighter weight app that accesses a rich set of IUs.
So you think adobe should have an alternative for the 99%?
THEY DO, it is called Eliments, and as far as I know, it hasn't exactly erroded the Pshop user base.