Current iBooks and eMacs do not support Core Image

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/core.html



Apple states (bottom right corner):



Quote:

Supported graphics cards:

ATI Radeon 9800 XT

ATI Radeon 9800 Pro

ATI Radeon 9700 Pro

ATI Radeon 9600 XT

ATI Radeon 9600 Pro

ATI Mobility Radeon 9700

ATI Mobility Radeon 9600

NVIDIA GeForceFX Go 5200

NVIDIA GeForceFX 5200 Ultra



+ NVIDIA GeForceFX 6800 DDL



(these are essentialy DirectX9 capable chipsets in PC land)



It looks like current eMac and iBook buyers will not have full Core Image functionality. Since Tiger is less than a year away, there will be at least one update for these products between now and then. It is likely the next eMac and iBook updates will be "Core Image Ready".



What's next for GPUs in the iBooks and eMacs? More crappy 5200s like the PowerMacs and 12" PB? The 5200 is barely DirectX9 capable and is slow. Will the Radeon 9700 mobility migrate down to the iBooks as PowerBooks get the new x600 mobility chipset?



Additionally, the 15" iMac also does not support Core Image, but that's a holdover from 2002 and will likely die soon.



Core Image functionality is important in that applications that use it will require these chipsets. For example, Steve said in his keynote he wants Adobe to implement Core Image in Photoshop. If that happened, any mac that does not have these graphics chipsets would not benefit from the massive resulting speed boost (the speed boost from the 5200 is probably not worthwhile).
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 84
    cubistcubist Posts: 954member
    Aha! When this has happened before, there was an update soon thereafter. But you're probably right, it'll be the 5200.
  • Reply 2 of 84
    lemon bon bonlemon bon bon Posts: 2,383member
    That's a surprise...



    Lemon Bon Bon
  • Reply 3 of 84
    Maybe the 128MB option on the new 15/17-inch PowerBook is worth it after all.
  • Reply 4 of 84
    existenceexistence Posts: 991member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by cubist

    Aha! When this has happened before, there was an update soon thereafter. But you're probably right, it'll be the 5200.



    But the 5200 is almost two years old. I'm sure producting has slowed down, if not stopped. Probably the only reason Apple put the 5200 in the new PowerMacs is because they have extra inventory they needed to get rid off (from the old and poor selling 1.6s). The ATI 9600 XT is only a $50 upgrade and vastly superior.



    I hope the next iMac is slotted with one or two PCIe slots and comes with a x600 (higher clocked 9600 equivalent for PCIe) or even a x300. The focus on GPUs means Apple needs to provide some measure of upgradibility.



    BTW, Apple needs PCIe ASAP in all its lines to fully exploit Core Image/Video.



    http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_x800_x600_xt/
  • Reply 5 of 84
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Existence

    Core Image functionality is important in that applications that use it will require these chipsets.



    Not getting a speed boost and not working at all are two very different things.



    We went through this with Quartz Extreme, do we have to go through it every time Apple takes advantage of a modern hardware feature?
  • Reply 6 of 84
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,752member
    What is amazing abotu this is that people here on AI and on other boards would get upset with me when I strongly expressed my discuss with the configurations of recent Apple hardware releases. Lets face it folks Apple is building in a future income stream by releaseing machines that THEY KNOW WILL HAVE TO BE UPGRADED IN A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME!!!!!!



    This viel of intoxication that Aple seems to be able to throw over many and blind them to the reality that Apple is screwing the customer with their video configurations. It appears that they are setting many customer to be near term future customers simply by shipping computers with outdated video hardware. Basically bargain bin chip sets that have little value.



    It is not like Apple doesn't know what future software requirements will be either. Still they make a point to ship hardware that won't support the OS a few months down the road. It is one thing to have a low end machine that is limited in video capacity but what about the rest of the line?



    It surprises me how easily many are buffaloed by Apples hardware configurations. The latest PowerMac release was a complete joke a year after release. Not only is the video hardware shipping with these machines of limited performance they are a wee bit outdated. Now they may very well be able to run core imagining but none of the cards are exceptional configurations. In any event the ones that really get screwed are the purchasers of portables. Thanks Apple!!!!



    Dave





    Quote:

    Originally posted by Existence

    http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/core.html



    Apple states (bottom right corner):





    + NVIDIA GeForceFX 6800 DDL



    (these are essentialy DirectX9 capable chipsets in PC land)



    It looks like current eMac and iBook buyers will not have full Core Image functionality. Since Tiger is less than a year away, there will be at least one update for these products between now and then. It is likely the next eMac and iBook updates will be "Core Image Ready".



    What's next for GPUs in the iBooks and eMacs? More crappy 5200s like the PowerMacs and 12" PB? The 5200 is barely DirectX9 capable and is slow. Will the Radeon 9700 mobility migrate down to the iBooks as PowerBooks get the new x600 mobility chipset?



    Additionally, the 15" iMac also does not support Core Image, but that's a holdover from 2002 and will likely die soon.



    Core Image functionality is important in that applications that use it will require these chipsets. For example, Steve said in his keynote he wants Adobe to implement Core Image in Photoshop. If that happened, any mac that does not have these graphics chipsets would not benefit from the massive resulting speed boost (the speed boost from the 5200 is probably not worthwhile).




  • Reply 7 of 84
    talksense101talksense101 Posts: 1,737member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by wizard69



    This viel of intoxication that Aple seems to be able to throw over many and blind them to the reality that Apple is screwing the customer with their video configurations. It appears that they are setting many customer to be near term future customers simply by shipping computers with outdated video hardware. Basically bargain bin chip sets that have little value.



    Dave




    I don't think people are happy about it and neither is Apple. Did you notice the audience laugh when Steve Jobs said the nVidia card was a new one. Steve smiled back as well. It would appear that they acknowledge they have a problem in keeping up with the advances in graphics cards. Only question on everyone's mind is: what the [email protected]# are they going to do about it?
  • Reply 8 of 84
    Since I have a last gen Tibook with a Ati Radeon 9000, I'm a little peeved about not making the "cut". I was thinking that a 64mb card would suffice for CoreVid, but I guess not. Possibly it's just a problem with compatibility of the chipset but I'm leaning more towards Apple just cutting previous gen harware from the loop. Then again, if it comes to 3rd party hacking like some did to use Quartz Extreme, maybe I'll just have to wait.



    So... yes, this might make some people consider an upgrade, but for me, that means I have to get on the G5 tower plan. This is something I'm not about to consider anyway until the Rev. C one's with PCI-E come around. Time to save up the snaps as I sit over here in the corner.
  • Reply 9 of 84
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,752member
    As I see it Apple is doing this to build in a hardware revenue stream. That very thought may offend some people but step back and look at the current hardware confgurations. The video systems really appear to be implemented in such a way as to assure that the computer will be obsolete in a very short time.



    It is silly in this day and age to ship any PC with less than 128meg of video RAM and a reasonably up to date video chip set. Software technology is just moving forward, even is Apple didn't announce Core Imaging it is explotation of the consumer to have a PC on the market with 32 meg of video RAM. It might be OK for a server running Linux, but I even consider the server boards with 8 meg of memory a waste of time. Better to delete video capability all together than to supply a compromise.



    What bothers me is that Apple seems to be completely willing to supply hardware today that will not be able to take advantage of a OS update that is only a few month away. It made about as much sense as selling the iBook with barely enough memory soldered in to run OS/9 and shipping OS/X with it. What fantastic consumer relations that is. Frankly it is also a supreme example of lazyness.



    Thanks

    Dave





    Quote:

    Originally posted by stupider...likeafox

    Not getting a speed boost and not working at all are two very different things.



    We went through this with Quartz Extreme, do we have to go through it every time Apple takes advantage of a modern hardware feature?




  • Reply 10 of 84
    existenceexistence Posts: 991member
    A couple of points:



    1. Core Image/Video is exactly why PCIe was created. With PCIe and a fast graphics card, it will be essentially act as a (specialized) second processor. This is why bandwidth is important and why Apple get PCIe into everything ASAP.



    2. PCIe is going to go mainstream with or without Apple.



    3. Core Image/Video scream iMovie and iPhoto. This is why Apple's consumer machines need PCIe and fast "DX9 capable" graphics. An PCIe slotted iMac would be ideal.



    4. I think the x300/x600 is ideal for the iMac. The iBook will probably get the 5200 To Go.
  • Reply 11 of 84
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,752member
    Well that is not what I'm sure about, Apple could very well be happy with the situation. After all it generates more hardware sales into a shrinking consumer base.



    Wemight be seeing indications though that Apple is addressing the issue. The switch to standard video I/O ports is certainly a step in the right direction. On the other hand the current PowerMac update really seems to be blatant in its disregard for the consumer. I could very well be taking to negative of a view with regards to this issue, but the prices being stuck on the "PRO" lines and the marketing of such machines as "PRO" implies a reasonable hardware configuration.



    It is one thing for a iMac to have a third or fourth string video implementations its another to release brand new pro macines with such a configuration. What really boils the eggs here is that people accept these machine as the next great release from Apple. Personally I'm voteing with my dollars. That is PC purchases will be put off until either Apple has reformed or I'm forced to go the Opteron route.



    What I find funny is that I've objected to a number of new Apple releases recently due in large part to the video and memory configurations. It is not like I've got it out for Apple; it is just that if one understands where software is going in the future you have no choice but to be dissatisfied with the offerings. I've never been able to justify buying a computer on a yearly basis, at home or at work. The problem with Apple is that you are almost compelled to do so to keep up with software demands.



    Dave





    Quote:

    Originally posted by talksense101

    I don't think people are happy about it and neither is Apple. Did you notice the audience laugh when Steve Jobs said the nVidia card was a new one. Steve smiled back as well. It would appear that they acknowledge they have a problem in keeping up with the advances in graphics cards. Only question on everyone's mind is: what the [email protected]# are they going to do about it?



  • Reply 12 of 84
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,255member
    People it will likely take 2 years before applications mature using Core Image/Video. Tiger may not even ship until mid 2005 and then it may still require a few tweaks in subsequent versions before we get to really see what can be done. Those that have iBooks or eMacs should be fine provided they have a lot of memory.



    \tAs I see it Dell is doing this to build in a hardware revenue stream. That very thought may offend some people but step back and look at the current hardware confgurations. The video systems really appear to be implemented in such a way as to assure that the computer will be obsolete in a very short time.



    See how easy that is? And it still makes sense doesn't it?



    Yes the iBook and the eMac will require replacement if the user wants to run Tiger well. The scenario is no different from any entry level system. You get your ears wet with them..and when you're ready for more you upgrade to a better model. Business 101
  • Reply 13 of 84
    msanttimsantti Posts: 1,377member
    Its a travesty to see the 5200 in this new line up of PM's.



    A travesty.
  • Reply 14 of 84
    stoostoo Posts: 1,490member
    If I want to upgrade the video in my super cheap Dell desktop, I can do it cheaply and with little hassle. If I want to upgrade the video hardware in my iMac/eMac, I'm stuck. It isn't a fair substitution.
  • Reply 15 of 84
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,255member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Stoo

    If I want to upgrade the video in my super cheap Dell desktop, I can do it cheaply and with little hassle. If I want to upgrade the video hardware in my iMac/eMac, I'm stuck. It isn't a fair substitution.





    That's news to me. Go configure a Dell Dimension 2400 and see what options are there for video upgrades



    Shared memory. No mention of AGP slot. "The King has no clothes".
  • Reply 16 of 84
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by wizard69

    Well that is not what I'm sure about, Apple could very well be happy with the situation. After all it generates more hardware sales into a shrinking consumer base.



    1) The overwhelming majority of Apple's OS sales are bundled with new machines. This is because...



    2) Most people never upgrade the OS on their machine.



    Most people using iBooks and eMacs cheerfully soldier on with whatever OS the machine shipped with. This is a simple, empirical fact. If they do upgrade, Apple has been pretty good about "graceful degredation" of software features unsupported by hardware.



    Lastly, the consumer base is not shrinking. Market share is, but that's completely different. The consumer base can grow and market share can shrink simultaneously, if the overall sales for a given quarter are higher than Apple's sales - even in the hypothetical case that PC sales are all into the installed base and Apple's sales are all to new users. Market share doesn't distinguish between sales into the base and sales to new users. Installed base, obviously, does.



    Quote:

    What I find funny is that I've objected to a number of new Apple releases recently due in large part to the video and memory configurations. It is not like I've got it out for Apple; it is just that if one understands where software is going in the future you have no choice but to be dissatisfied with the offerings. I've never been able to justify buying a computer on a yearly basis, at home or at work. The problem with Apple is that you are almost compelled to do so to keep up with software demands.



    I suppose that depends on which software you're talking about, since my 3 1/2 year old Cube is soldiering along just fine, and Apple's OS upgrades have, if anything, made it feel faster over time.



    YMMV.
  • Reply 17 of 84
    lemon bon bonlemon bon bon Posts: 2,383member
    Mebbee so. But Apple still skimp on machines that are supposedly worth their premium pricing.



    Lemon Bon Bon
  • Reply 18 of 84
    Quote:

    Originally posted by msantti

    Its a travesty to see the 5200 in this new line up of PM's.



    A travesty.




    Yea, because the 9600 is only $50 more. Not everyone needs a super-fast video cards. Those that do are willing to spend the money to upgrade their cards. No one is forcing you to get the 5200...
  • Reply 19 of 84
    lemon bon bonlemon bon bon Posts: 2,383member
    Quote:

    I suppose that depends on which software you're talking about, since my 3 1/2 year old Cube is soldiering along just fine, and Apple's OS upgrades have, if anything, made it feel faster over time.



    I suppose it depends on whether you have high or low expectations of the Macs you pay premium prices for...



    Lemon Bon Bon
  • Reply 20 of 84
    lemon bon bonlemon bon bon Posts: 2,383member
    Quote:

    No one is forcing you to get the 5200...



    And the last round of PowerMac sales bear that out. Heh. Let's see how the next round of PowerMac sales do after the 'spike'...



    5200 indeed. What a disgrace.



    Lemon Bon Bon
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