Don't be too impressed. In all honesty, I use big words when I don't know what I'm talking about, and there's plenty of evidence of that in my last post. Really, I'm just thinking out loud.
Perhaps something that partially motivates all beauty rituals. An averse reaction to aging, which might be read as an aversion to mortality, and death. Paedophelia as a phenomenon psychological theory -- man's attempt to reject all post pubescent phases because those lead to age, which leads to death. Not because we want to be with children, but because we want to be children -- with innocence, with polymorphous perversion, without existential angst.
That's exactly what I believe and tried to say earlier, but you summed it up very nicely!
Quote:
I mean, the crude part of all this is if a certain set of genetalia are worth going down on, then they're worth it in their natural state, I imagine.
All the people arguing that sex is natural (which I agree) seem to also require a very particular presentation. As if to say, you know, it's not all that nice unless it meets particular standards, is presented in just such a way, easy access, hygiene... All make a point, to different degrees. But people don't look like that, is it crucial to a pleasant experience or is it part of another psychology.
Yes, there are trends and standards for sex, definitely, since it has become a real market (ok, you don't actually BUY your girlfriend, but when you see what's happening on Meetic, it's getting very close).
However, I don't know what the other people here think about that, but in the end, as far as I'm concerned, I don't care whether a girl is shaved or anything, as long as i find her attractive.
well, let's say that I find a lot of it problematic. I understand what I wrote, with a few errors, but don't neccessarily understand where it goes from there, and with no resolution in sight, that just means more meandering thought on the question/s. People have written books on the subject, I might have to read one.
Now, if you're just saying that I'm gay, sorry to disappoint.
I've read that men that are attracted to the insanely skinny women rather than a more full figured woman have latent homosexual tendencies. Not sure that I buy it, but it is something I've read.
And as for the fear of death, I don't put too much stock in it. Biology tells us when to mate and who to mate with, even if we don't always listen to it. The female body sends signals when it's ready, even if people are scared to admit it.
Quote:
Yes but Japanese people have a totally different (and utterly strange) vision of morality than the Americans and the Europeans...
I think this is somewhat racist. There are plenty of people in the USA and Europe who get off on 'teen' sex, internet or otherwise. It's just our culture tells us it's wrong, bad, evil, whatever. If the Japanese are more open about it, I don't think that means their morals are any different.
1. That people in general are biological attracted to youth. Think about kittens. Puppies. They have those big eyes, that small chin, that soft skin or fur. Why do those features look cute to us? Because we need to take care of our babies in order to help them survive. If babies were ugly to us, we wouldn't want to nurture them to help them to survive. So we have evolved to find youth cute.
2. Reproductive fitness. Older women either can't have babies or can't have as many. Therefore younger women are more attractive from a biological standpoint. Men who pair up with younger women will be able to have more babies than men who pair up with older women. And the same is not true of men, who can produce sperm up 'til their dying days. If you go with the standard psycho-evolutionary line, women actually prefer older men because they are more likely to have amassed greater resources to provide for mom and babies.
So theory 1. would predict that men and women equally prefer youthful features, but theory 2. would predict that only men would prefer youthful features in women, but not the other way around. I think theory 1. also predicts that the younger the better (i.e., shaved pubes), whereas theory 2. predicts a preference for youth but not more youthful than puberty.
I've often thought this same thing applies to blonde hair. Why is blonde hair considered attractive among caucasians? Once you get past the age of about 15, very few women in the US have actual blonde hair anymore. It goes away. Lots of white babies are born blond but the vast majority go brown as they get older. I think it's another example of men preferring youthful looks.
I think this is somewhat racist. There are plenty of people in the USA and Europe who get off on 'teen' sex, internet or otherwise. It's just our culture tells us it's wrong, bad, evil, whatever. If the Japanese are more open about it, I don't think that means their morals are any different.
I was not judging the morals of Japanese people at all! Just telling that it is very different from ours, and that therefore, talking about Japanese guys' lust for school girls in uniform is not extremely relevant!
Anyway, I feel a lot closer to the Japanese definition of morals than the Euro-American one, if you wanna know!
I was not judging the morals of Japanese people at all! Just telling that it is very different from ours, and that therefore, talking about Japanese guys' lust for school girls in uniform is not extremely relevant!
Anyway, I feel a lot closer to the Japanese definition of morals than the Euro-American one, if you wanna know!
Hey, it's all cool with me. I didn't mean to accuse you or be harsh.
I have to agree with BRussell's blonde hair argument and point #2 since they support's my case.
By the way, here in Japan, BRussell's point #1 is the king of them all : everything that looks childish here is considered as cute and everything cute is seen as incredibly sexy on a girl.
On BRussell's blonde hair argument : I believe that what is perceived as sexy is what is very rare and what you don't have... for example, although childish is sexy in Japan, japanese guys fantasy on big breasts, because very few Japanese girls have big breasts.
Oh by the way, bunge, I read my post again, and I think that the part you thought was racist was the "utterly strange morals" part. Actually, it IS strange for a european, really, but not bad at all. It's just that they are incredibly more open than us on sex. For example, people check the porn magazines right in the store instead of hiding themselves while looking at them, and they often have family baths (actually, this seems to depend on the families, but in the family i did a homestay in, i was used to bathing with my three little "sisters") and go to public baths, and prostitution is not seen as a sordid thing at all (actually, though i have never witnessed such a thing, two japanese buddies of mine explained to me that girls in highschool sometimes prostitute after school, and that it is perceived as very posh), etc...
I always liked thinner women because it's easier to pick them up and move them around. Seriously. That and because I'm fit so I was never looking for some jack sprat relationship.
Comments
Originally posted by Matsu
Perhaps something that partially motivates all beauty rituals. An averse reaction to aging, which might be read as an aversion to mortality, and death. Paedophelia as a phenomenon psychological theory -- man's attempt to reject all post pubescent phases because those lead to age, which leads to death. Not because we want to be with children, but because we want to be children -- with innocence, with polymorphous perversion, without existential angst.
That's exactly what I believe and tried to say earlier, but you summed it up very nicely!
I mean, the crude part of all this is if a certain set of genetalia are worth going down on, then they're worth it in their natural state, I imagine.
All the people arguing that sex is natural (which I agree) seem to also require a very particular presentation. As if to say, you know, it's not all that nice unless it meets particular standards, is presented in just such a way, easy access, hygiene... All make a point, to different degrees. But people don't look like that, is it crucial to a pleasant experience or is it part of another psychology.
Yes, there are trends and standards for sex, definitely, since it has become a real market (ok, you don't actually BUY your girlfriend, but when you see what's happening on Meetic, it's getting very close).
However, I don't know what the other people here think about that, but in the end, as far as I'm concerned, I don't care whether a girl is shaved or anything, as long as i find her attractive.
Now, if you're just saying that I'm gay, sorry to disappoint.
And as for the fear of death, I don't put too much stock in it. Biology tells us when to mate and who to mate with, even if we don't always listen to it. The female body sends signals when it's ready, even if people are scared to admit it.
Yes but Japanese people have a totally different (and utterly strange) vision of morality than the Americans and the Europeans...
I think this is somewhat racist. There are plenty of people in the USA and Europe who get off on 'teen' sex, internet or otherwise. It's just our culture tells us it's wrong, bad, evil, whatever. If the Japanese are more open about it, I don't think that means their morals are any different.
1. That people in general are biological attracted to youth. Think about kittens. Puppies. They have those big eyes, that small chin, that soft skin or fur. Why do those features look cute to us? Because we need to take care of our babies in order to help them survive. If babies were ugly to us, we wouldn't want to nurture them to help them to survive. So we have evolved to find youth cute.
2. Reproductive fitness. Older women either can't have babies or can't have as many. Therefore younger women are more attractive from a biological standpoint. Men who pair up with younger women will be able to have more babies than men who pair up with older women. And the same is not true of men, who can produce sperm up 'til their dying days. If you go with the standard psycho-evolutionary line, women actually prefer older men because they are more likely to have amassed greater resources to provide for mom and babies.
So theory 1. would predict that men and women equally prefer youthful features, but theory 2. would predict that only men would prefer youthful features in women, but not the other way around. I think theory 1. also predicts that the younger the better (i.e., shaved pubes), whereas theory 2. predicts a preference for youth but not more youthful than puberty.
I've often thought this same thing applies to blonde hair. Why is blonde hair considered attractive among caucasians? Once you get past the age of about 15, very few women in the US have actual blonde hair anymore. It goes away. Lots of white babies are born blond but the vast majority go brown as they get older. I think it's another example of men preferring youthful looks.
Originally posted by bunge
I think this is somewhat racist. There are plenty of people in the USA and Europe who get off on 'teen' sex, internet or otherwise. It's just our culture tells us it's wrong, bad, evil, whatever. If the Japanese are more open about it, I don't think that means their morals are any different.
I was not judging the morals of Japanese people at all! Just telling that it is very different from ours, and that therefore, talking about Japanese guys' lust for school girls in uniform is not extremely relevant!
Anyway, I feel a lot closer to the Japanese definition of morals than the Euro-American one, if you wanna know!
Originally posted by The One to Rescue
I was not judging the morals of Japanese people at all! Just telling that it is very different from ours, and that therefore, talking about Japanese guys' lust for school girls in uniform is not extremely relevant!
Anyway, I feel a lot closer to the Japanese definition of morals than the Euro-American one, if you wanna know!
Hey, it's all cool with me. I didn't mean to accuse you or be harsh.
I have to agree with BRussell's blonde hair argument and point #2 since they support's my case.
Originally posted by bunge
Hey, it's all cool with me. I didn't mean to accuse you or be harsh.
I have to agree with BRussell's blonde hair argument and point #2 since they support's my case.
No problem bunge!
I also definitely agree with BRussell's point #2.
By the way, here in Japan, BRussell's point #1 is the king of them all : everything that looks childish here is considered as cute and everything cute is seen as incredibly sexy on a girl.
On BRussell's blonde hair argument : I believe that what is perceived as sexy is what is very rare and what you don't have... for example, although childish is sexy in Japan, japanese guys fantasy on big breasts, because very few Japanese girls have big breasts.
Oh by the way, bunge, I read my post again, and I think that the part you thought was racist was the "utterly strange morals" part. Actually, it IS strange for a european, really, but not bad at all. It's just that they are incredibly more open than us on sex. For example, people check the porn magazines right in the store instead of hiding themselves while looking at them, and they often have family baths (actually, this seems to depend on the families, but in the family i did a homestay in, i was used to bathing with my three little "sisters") and go to public baths, and prostitution is not seen as a sordid thing at all (actually, though i have never witnessed such a thing, two japanese buddies of mine explained to me that girls in highschool sometimes prostitute after school, and that it is perceived as very posh), etc...