My reseller in Switzerland still expects 3 days for teh 867 to arrive, 7 for the 1GHz and still 20 (which is the maximum his software would display) for my 1.25Ghz...
I guess I won't see it before October, which is kinda...lame.
Better figure on 40 days before you get the dual 1.25 GHz model. But it'll be worth the wait. I'm waiting with you. In fact I'm not even ordering until right before the rebate offer expires at the end of September. By then we can expect our dual 1.25 GHz DMDs to have 10.2.2 pre-installed with iMovie 3, iCal and more.
Just back from the Palo Alto Apple Store Jaguar Premiere that took place last night from 10:20 PM until about 2:40 AM in downtown Palo Alto California about 30 miles south of San Francisco and 15 miles north of Cupertino. They sold out every dual GHz DMD Macs they had and probably what ever few dual 867s they had. Jaguar was a hit with everyone in the store. My guess is there were at least 300 people that passed through that store last night.
I have to say that the new Macs cannot be comprehended by studying them on this web. You have to see them in person to really begin to appreciate what a breakthrough product that case is. I am certain that one can populate the inside with easily 6 - 200 GB ATA drives for a total of more than 1.1 Terabytes of available storage.
There are 4 fans. Two small ones pushing front to rear through the power supply, one medium fan blowing directly into the side of the dual opticals and one gigantic fan blowing across the enormous heat sink situated in the middle of the insides. There's room for two drives below the opticals and two or maybe even three drives above them. There's also 2 drive slots in the rear under the power supply and behind the heat sink that share the ATA 100 bus.
The mirrored drive doors and frame are all MIRRORED METAL not shiny plastic like the photos would have you believe. Serious metal. And that shiny metal theme includes the rear of the four vent ports. Most of the intake air is undernieth the front NOT through those retro ports.
The box that the computers come in have gigantic blow ups of the ports on the sides. Those ports are almost as cosmetic as the ports on BMW Z1s. But they do look cool.
Connect both computers with a firewire cable. Restart the older computer while pressing the "T" key. You are now in Firewire Disk Transfer mode, your older computer acts as a hard drive. Then drag over the 50GB of files .</strong><hr></blockquote>
By the way, thanks for the tip.. Copy time went from 22 hours down to 2 hours.
I just submitted my order for a dual-867! I was going to wait until next year to replace my trusty old dual-450 but the price and specs are just too tempting. With the faster bus and L3 cache, the 867 should easily be twice as fast as my 450. Next year I will upgrade half the Macs in the office and will get myself a higher-end box then as well; meanwhile someone else in the office will get a nice upgrade with my old Sawtooth.
Summary
? Power Mac G4 Dual 867MHz w/133MHz system bus
? 256MB PC2100 DDR SDRAM - 1 DIMM
? 60GB Ultra ATA drive
? Optical 1 - Apple SuperDrive
? Optical 2 - None
? ATI Radeon 9000 Pro dual-display w/64MB DDR
? Ultra SCSI PCI card & cable adapter
I have a second hard drive I will pop in the new machine, and have 1GB of RAM on order from Crucial.
I got my stock dual 867 a few days ago from a local reseller...
I was determined to wait for MWSF or later, but my cube expired and I had to buy a new system. Anyway,despite my big reservations, it is an awesome machine....
OS X really flies on it, and the performance is a revelation over the cube (even with a 10.2, QE Radeon and stack of ram). It is like day and night.
If anyone is undecided as to whether to buy now, I would say that you would not be dissapointed with an 867... it is very, very good indeed.
Also, noise wise, it is quieter than the old 800DP which I had for a while, and easily bearable, even when used on a desktop.
My question for all of you new buyers, is why are you spending money on these new machines when all tests have shown there is no significant performance difference over the Quicksilvers. Save yourself some serious money and get a Quicksilver Dual gig...or if you can find one, a dual 800. With the extra dough you could buy a ton of ram, a nice 19 inch monitor, or an ipod.
But here is my dream system, part of it is already here!
Dual 867/256/60
Superdrive upgrade
Radeon 9000
(2) 17" Studio Displays
ADC/DVI adapter. ProSpeakers & iSub.
unfortunately, this "bottom of the line" system cost me $4400 before rebates. The displays look so badass, though I'm glad I spent the $$$$$ The only gripe is that I shouldn't have to pay $150 to
use an Apple monitor with the stock Apple vid card. They should figure out a way to subsidize that. That's just stupid business sense.
I feel good about the purchase, because someone's buying my G4/400/704 for $1500 with the old monitors!!!
<strong>My question for all of you new buyers, is why are you spending money on these new machines when all tests have shown there is no significant performance difference over the Quicksilvers. Save yourself some serious money and get a Quicksilver Dual gig...or if you can find one, a dual 800. With the extra dough you could buy a ton of ram, a nice 19 inch monitor, or an ipod.
Superfula, try comparing a new "low-end" Dual 867 with the previous "low-end" 800MHz and then tell me there is no performance difference. Your perception of the new machines is definately skewed if you imply that there is "no significant performance difference".
The Dual GHz machine shows a tremendous performance increase over the previous 933MHz G4(the model it REPLACED!!!!)
You also seem to disregard all of the motherboard and enclosure improvements which make the new machines infinately more desireable than the older generations(2 Gigs RAM, 5 HD's, 2 Optical drives, L3 cache across the board, DDR, etc., etc.)
Sorry if I come off as being angry, but I am a little ticked at many people's bizarre comparisons.
[QB]Superfula, try comparing a new "low-end" Dual 867 with the previous "low-end" 800MHz and then tell me there is no performance difference. Your perception of the new machines is definately skewed if you imply that there is "no significant performance difference".
The Dual GHz machine shows a tremendous performance increase over the previous 933MHz G4(the model it REPLACED!!!!)
You also seem to disregard all of the motherboard and enclosure improvements which make the new machines infinately more desireable than the older generations(2 Gigs RAM, 5 HD's, 2 Optical drives, L3 cache across the board, DDR, etc., etc.)
Sorry if I come off as being angry, but I am a little ticked at many people's bizarre comparisons.
-Dual 867<hr></blockquote>
Now if you really did read my post, you would have noticed it said DUAL gig and DUAL 800. I never mentioned single 800 or single 933. The fact of the matter, is that the new dual machines provide very little performance boost over the dual 800 and the dual gig. You're wasting hundreds of dollars on a terrible purchase. Unless you just want the "new thing"
The extra gig of ram is pretty useless. Anything over 1 gig is overkill. The 5 hd slots are also over kill. Very few people need a second cd bay currently. It is handy though. And if you think it's full DDR, you are seriously mistaken. If you call "enclosure improvements" the fact that it is as loud as an AMD pc, or if it is butt ugly, you are correct. There are no other "improvements" that make it any better Check the benchmarks comparing the new PM and the dual gig and dual 800. The difference is negligible.
[quote]The Dual 800 SlowSilver(tm) has a lot of hardware-related problems. I never recommend it to people<hr></blockquote>
I have a dual 800 and have had zero problems. In fact from read through forums, it doesn't seem to have any more problems than any other computer.
If you guys want to keep making excuses to back up the fact that you were stupid and bought the new G4s thats fine. Don't think the rest of us will feel sorrow for you.
The fact remains that the new G4s are the WORST buy in the Mac lineup. It offers no performance boost over the two duals i mentioned. You'd be better off getting an imac. Save you some money, and save face. If you think otherwise, you may want to do some research.
Waiting for waiting, finally I've upgraded my order on the Apple Store. From a Dual Gig to a Dual 1.25 ! Just a difference of 400 ?, but I downgraded the GD4Ti to the ATI 9000...
Combined this is a 900 Mhz upgrade from my Dual 800 !
BTW, I've got a lot of problems with my Dual 800 : MB changed one time, processor changed one time, the whole machine changed one time and finally the alimentation changed also.
[quote]Anything over 1 gig is overkill. The 5 hd slots are also over kill.<hr></blockquote>
[quote]Bill Gates: 640KB of RAM should be enough for everyone<hr></blockquote>
[quote]IBM CEO way back: "I think there's a worldwide market for maybe 2 computers"<hr></blockquote>
[quote]People after the introduction of 40GB disks: You can never in your whole life fill that much space<hr></blockquote>
I'm sorry, but you're just making a complete arse of yourself by a: ignoring the changes in casing, mainboard, CPU speed and price/performance ratio.
b: Believing the first benchmark that surfaces, comparing the ancient "Fastest" to the current "Faster" system, and totally neglecting IO performance per se
c: not waiting for DP 1.25GHz machines to be tested
d: by posting here, owning a DP 800 and calling people idiots who upgrade from a G4 450 or even less.
Frankly, yes, your system is still good enough for mostly anything, and no you don't have to envy us for getting a new system, with equal or better performance at half the price.
Really I prefer any Wintel troll to your kind of naysayer id&%*&.
<strong>My question for all of you new buyers, is why are you spending money on these new machines when all tests have shown there is no significant performance difference over the Quicksilvers. </strong><hr></blockquote>
This has been said a couple o' dozen times all over the web, but I'll say it again: the "tests" you refer to, like most computer performance benchmarks, focus on CPU - not system - performance.
We already know that the CPUs in the new machines are the same as in the QS - therefore it's no big surprise to find that CPU-centered tests reveal no big difference between DDR & pre-DDR PowerMacs. As in, "DUH"!
Overall system performance is MUCH harder to gauge, and so it's rearely attempted.
I know people HATE car analogies ('cause they're so apt, and hard to refute), but auto performance is gauged by a number of benchmarks, including 0-60mph, elapsed-time in the quarter-mile, fuel efficiency, and horsepower. These tests ARE NOT run w/ 4 adults + luggage onboard, but that's when performance really matters.
The changes to the DDR PowerMacs are OF THE SORT that - in cars - would only show themselves when pulling a real load through a variety of driving & road conditions. What benchmarks DON'T tell us is how the system will handle pulling passengers uphill w/ the air-conditioning on (so to speak).
For myself, DDR-RAM, the 167mHz bus, the L3 cache and that new system controller make the new PMs equivalent to a glimpse into the future. I bought the outgoing tech 4 years ago; it's time for me to move up to the G4, and the Quicksilvers are the outgoing tech.
The future is faster SYSTEMS, not just faster chips, and the DDR-PMs are the first swell of the next wave. I'm getting on.
<strong>If you guys want to keep making excuses to back up the fact that you were stupid and bought the new G4s thats fine. Don't think the rest of us will feel sorrow for you.
The fact remains that the new G4s are the WORST buy in the Mac lineup. You'd be better off getting an imac. Save you some money, and save face. If you think otherwise, you may want to do some research.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'd like to apologise for having offered a thoughtful response to a pissy little brat like you. Your nym is well-chosen.
We can only pray that you have a younger sibling from whom you can learn a less exalted view of yourself. However, once you get to high-school, you'll find that your tough-guy posture brings beatings, not friendship.
I'd like to apologise for having offered a thoughtful response to a pissy little brat like you. Your nym is well-chosen.
We can only pray that you have a younger sibling from whom you can learn a less exalted view of yourself. However, once you get to high-school, you'll find that your tough-guy posture brings beatings, not friendship.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And now you are flaming me. Seems as if the pot is calling the kettle black....child
Since you guys are in denial, I'll send you to a couple links
A discussion thread about that benchmark at MacNN. Seems they know a little bit more about what they are talking about.
a) There are NO improvements in the new case design, save one...the 2 optical drive bays. They have an extra fan. They run hotter. They run louder because of the fans
b) There is little to NO performance gain with the new processors. You have yourself a new mobo that uses DDR, but you have an old processor that still uses the sdr frame. The new G4s also only have 1MB of L3 cache. The old had 2MB of L3. Thats a big difference
c) DDR ram is more expensive than SDR.
Etc, etc, etc...
Evidence shows the Quicksilver DP 1Gig or the Quicksilver DP 800 are the sweetspots. By buying the old 1Gig, you are saving at least 300 dollars. Thats a lot of ram, the best video card, or half a 17 inch lcd, etc.
A discussion thread about that benchmark at MacNN. Seems they know a little bit more about what they are talking about.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is the first time I've ever heard someone say that the posters on MacNN know what they are talking about. But I gave it a fair read.
[quote]<strong>a) There are NO improvements in the new case design, save one...the 2 optical drive bays.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Never mind 24 bit audio input/output, an extra ATA bus, and more room for extra harddrives.
[quote]<strong>They have an extra fan. They run hotter. They run louder because of the fans</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, the QSs where very loud to begin with. The newer systems are not louder. Nor are they hotter. Unless your telling me that a DP 1Gig with 2MB of L3 cache and a smaller heatsink is actually cooler than a DP 867 with 1MB of L3 cache.
Your not, are you? Of course not because then your "credibility" would be thrown out the window.
[quote]<strong>
b) There is little to NO performance gain with the new processors. You have yourself a new mobo that uses DDR, but you have an old processor that still uses the sdr frame. The new G4s also only have 1MB of L3 cache. The old had 2MB of L3. Thats a big difference
c) DDR ram is more expensive than SDR.
Etc, etc, etc...
Evidence shows the Quicksilver DP 1Gig or the Quicksilver DP 800 are the sweetspots. By buying the old 1Gig, you are saving at least 300 dollars. Thats a lot of ram, the best video card, or half a 17 inch lcd, etc.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Am I really saving that much (just so you know I ordered a DP 867 earlier today)? The closest place to be (CPUsed in Toronto) is selling the old QS Gigger for... ohh... $3699 CDN (I just checked a couple other places and they all have the same pices too). The computer I just ordered was $2409 CDN.
The new Gigger is at $3799 CDN. So for $100 you get more harddrive space, another ATA bus, better audio (with actual ports) a faster bus, a better videocard, higher RAM capacity, oh, and speed holes.
It's pretty obvious that Superfula (with a full 3 posts to his name) is clueless about what a lot of power users have been wanting AND waiting for for a long time. I have examined these new computers in person and believe me one needs to do that to really understand how revolutionary and compelling the case is. It is clearly possible to put at least 6 hard drives inside this monster (2 more fit above the opticals). At 200 GB each (Western Digital 7200 RPM shipping now @$400) that's 6x 186 GB formatted = 1.1 Terabytes of internal storage with the addition of an ATA 133 PCI card of course for less than the $2600 list of those components.
The four fans are ALL variable speed so they can adjust to the heat cycles as quietly as is necessary. Considering that my choice of the dual 1.25 GHz model includes 2MB L3 cache in EACH processor and that I intend to do MEMORY (Max 2GB 333 DDR) intensive work editing video with it, Superfula is way out of line trying to pit his year old 2001 dual 800 against these new bohemouths with radically more expansion capability, functionality and class.
Comments
SuperDrive
Radeon 9000 Pro
256 MB RAM (+ 256 from Crucial)
shipped late yesterday / early today,
expected Monday / Tuesday.
I guess I won't see it before October, which is kinda...lame.
G-News
Just back from the Palo Alto Apple Store Jaguar Premiere that took place last night from 10:20 PM until about 2:40 AM in downtown Palo Alto California about 30 miles south of San Francisco and 15 miles north of Cupertino. They sold out every dual GHz DMD Macs they had and probably what ever few dual 867s they had. Jaguar was a hit with everyone in the store. My guess is there were at least 300 people that passed through that store last night.
I have to say that the new Macs cannot be comprehended by studying them on this web. You have to see them in person to really begin to appreciate what a breakthrough product that case is. I am certain that one can populate the inside with easily 6 - 200 GB ATA drives for a total of more than 1.1 Terabytes of available storage.
There are 4 fans. Two small ones pushing front to rear through the power supply, one medium fan blowing directly into the side of the dual opticals and one gigantic fan blowing across the enormous heat sink situated in the middle of the insides. There's room for two drives below the opticals and two or maybe even three drives above them. There's also 2 drive slots in the rear under the power supply and behind the heat sink that share the ATA 100 bus.
The mirrored drive doors and frame are all MIRRORED METAL not shiny plastic like the photos would have you believe. Serious metal. And that shiny metal theme includes the rear of the four vent ports. Most of the intake air is undernieth the front NOT through those retro ports.
The box that the computers come in have gigantic blow ups of the ports on the sides. Those ports are almost as cosmetic as the ports on BMW Z1s. But they do look cool.
<strong>
Connect both computers with a firewire cable. Restart the older computer while pressing the "T" key. You are now in Firewire Disk Transfer mode, your older computer acts as a hard drive. Then drag over the 50GB of files .</strong><hr></blockquote>
By the way, thanks for the tip.. Copy time went from 22 hours down to 2 hours.
I'm setting this thing at home now.
MSKR
Summary
? Power Mac G4 Dual 867MHz w/133MHz system bus
? 256MB PC2100 DDR SDRAM - 1 DIMM
? 60GB Ultra ATA drive
? Optical 1 - Apple SuperDrive
? Optical 2 - None
? ATI Radeon 9000 Pro dual-display w/64MB DDR
? Ultra SCSI PCI card & cable adapter
I have a second hard drive I will pop in the new machine, and have 1GB of RAM on order from Crucial.
I was determined to wait for MWSF or later, but my cube expired and I had to buy a new system. Anyway,despite my big reservations, it is an awesome machine....
OS X really flies on it, and the performance is a revelation over the cube (even with a 10.2, QE Radeon and stack of ram). It is like day and night.
If anyone is undecided as to whether to buy now, I would say that you would not be dissapointed with an 867... it is very, very good indeed.
Also, noise wise, it is quieter than the old 800DP which I had for a while, and easily bearable, even when used on a desktop.
Peace,
Marc
Good to hear people are happy with the speed of these.
[ 08-25-2002: Message edited by: superfula ]</p>
But here is my dream system, part of it is already here!
Dual 867/256/60
Superdrive upgrade
Radeon 9000
(2) 17" Studio Displays
ADC/DVI adapter. ProSpeakers & iSub.
unfortunately, this "bottom of the line" system cost me $4400 before rebates. The displays look so badass, though I'm glad I spent the $$$$$ The only gripe is that I shouldn't have to pay $150 to
use an Apple monitor with the stock Apple vid card. They should figure out a way to subsidize that. That's just stupid business sense.
I feel good about the purchase, because someone's buying my G4/400/704 for $1500 with the old monitors!!!
<strong>My question for all of you new buyers, is why are you spending money on these new machines when all tests have shown there is no significant performance difference over the Quicksilvers. Save yourself some serious money and get a Quicksilver Dual gig...or if you can find one, a dual 800. With the extra dough you could buy a ton of ram, a nice 19 inch monitor, or an ipod.
[ 08-25-2002: Message edited by: superfula ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
The Dual 800 SlowSilver(tm) has a lot of hardware-related problems. I never recommend it to people
The Dual GHz machine shows a tremendous performance increase over the previous 933MHz G4(the model it REPLACED!!!!)
You also seem to disregard all of the motherboard and enclosure improvements which make the new machines infinately more desireable than the older generations(2 Gigs RAM, 5 HD's, 2 Optical drives, L3 cache across the board, DDR, etc., etc.)
Sorry if I come off as being angry, but I am a little ticked at many people's bizarre comparisons.
-Dual 867
[ 08-26-2002: Message edited by: Dual 867 ]
[ 08-26-2002: Message edited by: Dual 867 ]</p>
[QB]Superfula, try comparing a new "low-end" Dual 867 with the previous "low-end" 800MHz and then tell me there is no performance difference. Your perception of the new machines is definately skewed if you imply that there is "no significant performance difference".
The Dual GHz machine shows a tremendous performance increase over the previous 933MHz G4(the model it REPLACED!!!!)
You also seem to disregard all of the motherboard and enclosure improvements which make the new machines infinately more desireable than the older generations(2 Gigs RAM, 5 HD's, 2 Optical drives, L3 cache across the board, DDR, etc., etc.)
Sorry if I come off as being angry, but I am a little ticked at many people's bizarre comparisons.
-Dual 867<hr></blockquote>
Now if you really did read my post, you would have noticed it said DUAL gig and DUAL 800. I never mentioned single 800 or single 933. The fact of the matter, is that the new dual machines provide very little performance boost over the dual 800 and the dual gig. You're wasting hundreds of dollars on a terrible purchase. Unless you just want the "new thing"
The extra gig of ram is pretty useless. Anything over 1 gig is overkill. The 5 hd slots are also over kill. Very few people need a second cd bay currently. It is handy though. And if you think it's full DDR, you are seriously mistaken. If you call "enclosure improvements" the fact that it is as loud as an AMD pc, or if it is butt ugly, you are correct. There are no other "improvements" that make it any better Check the benchmarks comparing the new PM and the dual gig and dual 800. The difference is negligible.
[quote]The Dual 800 SlowSilver(tm) has a lot of hardware-related problems. I never recommend it to people<hr></blockquote>
I have a dual 800 and have had zero problems. In fact from read through forums, it doesn't seem to have any more problems than any other computer.
If you guys want to keep making excuses to back up the fact that you were stupid and bought the new G4s thats fine. Don't think the rest of us will feel sorrow for you.
The fact remains that the new G4s are the WORST buy in the Mac lineup. It offers no performance boost over the two duals i mentioned. You'd be better off getting an imac. Save you some money, and save face. If you think otherwise, you may want to do some research.
[ 08-26-2002: Message edited by: superfula ]</p>
Combined this is a 900 Mhz upgrade from my Dual 800 !
BTW, I've got a lot of problems with my Dual 800 : MB changed one time, processor changed one time, the whole machine changed one time and finally the alimentation changed also.
This was my worst experience with a mac.
[ 08-26-2002: Message edited by: jeromba ]</p>
[quote]Bill Gates: 640KB of RAM should be enough for everyone<hr></blockquote>
[quote]IBM CEO way back: "I think there's a worldwide market for maybe 2 computers"<hr></blockquote>
[quote]People after the introduction of 40GB disks: You can never in your whole life fill that much space<hr></blockquote>
I'm sorry, but you're just making a complete arse of yourself by a: ignoring the changes in casing, mainboard, CPU speed and price/performance ratio.
b: Believing the first benchmark that surfaces, comparing the ancient "Fastest" to the current "Faster" system, and totally neglecting IO performance per se
c: not waiting for DP 1.25GHz machines to be tested
d: by posting here, owning a DP 800 and calling people idiots who upgrade from a G4 450 or even less.
Frankly, yes, your system is still good enough for mostly anything, and no you don't have to envy us for getting a new system, with equal or better performance at half the price.
Really I prefer any Wintel troll to your kind of naysayer id&%*&.
G-News
[ 08-26-2002: Message edited by: G-News ]</p>
<strong>My question for all of you new buyers, is why are you spending money on these new machines when all tests have shown there is no significant performance difference over the Quicksilvers. </strong><hr></blockquote>
This has been said a couple o' dozen times all over the web, but I'll say it again: the "tests" you refer to, like most computer performance benchmarks, focus on CPU - not system - performance.
We already know that the CPUs in the new machines are the same as in the QS - therefore it's no big surprise to find that CPU-centered tests reveal no big difference between DDR & pre-DDR PowerMacs. As in, "DUH"!
Overall system performance is MUCH harder to gauge, and so it's rearely attempted.
I know people HATE car analogies ('cause they're so apt, and hard to refute), but auto performance is gauged by a number of benchmarks, including 0-60mph, elapsed-time in the quarter-mile, fuel efficiency, and horsepower. These tests ARE NOT run w/ 4 adults + luggage onboard, but that's when performance really matters.
The changes to the DDR PowerMacs are OF THE SORT that - in cars - would only show themselves when pulling a real load through a variety of driving & road conditions. What benchmarks DON'T tell us is how the system will handle pulling passengers uphill w/ the air-conditioning on (so to speak).
For myself, DDR-RAM, the 167mHz bus, the L3 cache and that new system controller make the new PMs equivalent to a glimpse into the future. I bought the outgoing tech 4 years ago; it's time for me to move up to the G4, and the Quicksilvers are the outgoing tech.
The future is faster SYSTEMS, not just faster chips, and the DDR-PMs are the first swell of the next wave. I'm getting on.
<strong>If you guys want to keep making excuses to back up the fact that you were stupid and bought the new G4s thats fine. Don't think the rest of us will feel sorrow for you.
The fact remains that the new G4s are the WORST buy in the Mac lineup. You'd be better off getting an imac. Save you some money, and save face. If you think otherwise, you may want to do some research.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'd like to apologise for having offered a thoughtful response to a pissy little brat like you. Your nym is well-chosen.
We can only pray that you have a younger sibling from whom you can learn a less exalted view of yourself. However, once you get to high-school, you'll find that your tough-guy posture brings beatings, not friendship.
<strong>
I'd like to apologise for having offered a thoughtful response to a pissy little brat like you. Your nym is well-chosen.
We can only pray that you have a younger sibling from whom you can learn a less exalted view of yourself. However, once you get to high-school, you'll find that your tough-guy posture brings beatings, not friendship.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And now you are flaming me. Seems as if the pot is calling the kettle black....child
Since you guys are in denial, I'll send you to a couple links
<a href="http://www.barefeats.com/pmddr.html"; target="_blank">http://www.barefeats.com/pmddr.html</a>;
Benchmarks comparing the new duals to the old.
<a href="http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=118712"; target="_blank">http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=118712</a>;
A discussion thread about that benchmark at MacNN. Seems they know a little bit more about what they are talking about.
a) There are NO improvements in the new case design, save one...the 2 optical drive bays. They have an extra fan. They run hotter. They run louder because of the fans
b) There is little to NO performance gain with the new processors. You have yourself a new mobo that uses DDR, but you have an old processor that still uses the sdr frame. The new G4s also only have 1MB of L3 cache. The old had 2MB of L3. Thats a big difference
c) DDR ram is more expensive than SDR.
Etc, etc, etc...
Evidence shows the Quicksilver DP 1Gig or the Quicksilver DP 800 are the sweetspots. By buying the old 1Gig, you are saving at least 300 dollars. Thats a lot of ram, the best video card, or half a 17 inch lcd, etc.
[ 08-26-2002: Message edited by: superfula ]</p>
<strong>Since you guys are in denial, I'll send you to a couple links</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thanks buddy, how kind of you.
[quote]<strong><a href="http://www.barefeats.com/pmddr.html"; target="_blank">http://www.barefeats.com/pmddr.html</a>;
Benchmarks comparing the new duals to the old.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yup, I think everyone has seen this link. Very interesting stuff.
[quote]<strong><a href="http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=118712"; target="_blank">http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=118712</a>;
A discussion thread about that benchmark at MacNN. Seems they know a little bit more about what they are talking about.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is the first time I've ever heard someone say that the posters on MacNN know what they are talking about. But I gave it a fair read.
[quote]<strong>a) There are NO improvements in the new case design, save one...the 2 optical drive bays.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Never mind 24 bit audio input/output, an extra ATA bus, and more room for extra harddrives.
[quote]<strong>They have an extra fan. They run hotter. They run louder because of the fans</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, the QSs where very loud to begin with. The newer systems are not louder. Nor are they hotter. Unless your telling me that a DP 1Gig with 2MB of L3 cache and a smaller heatsink is actually cooler than a DP 867 with 1MB of L3 cache.
Your not, are you? Of course not because then your "credibility" would be thrown out the window.
[quote]<strong>
b) There is little to NO performance gain with the new processors. You have yourself a new mobo that uses DDR, but you have an old processor that still uses the sdr frame. The new G4s also only have 1MB of L3 cache. The old had 2MB of L3. Thats a big difference
c) DDR ram is more expensive than SDR.
Etc, etc, etc...
Evidence shows the Quicksilver DP 1Gig or the Quicksilver DP 800 are the sweetspots. By buying the old 1Gig, you are saving at least 300 dollars. Thats a lot of ram, the best video card, or half a 17 inch lcd, etc.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Am I really saving that much (just so you know I ordered a DP 867 earlier today)? The closest place to be (CPUsed in Toronto) is selling the old QS Gigger for... ohh... $3699 CDN (I just checked a couple other places and they all have the same pices too). The computer I just ordered was $2409 CDN.
The new Gigger is at $3799 CDN. So for $100 you get more harddrive space, another ATA bus, better audio (with actual ports) a faster bus, a better videocard, higher RAM capacity, oh, and speed holes.
Sorry buddy, but your advice sucks.
Edit: fixed my markup
[ 08-26-2002: Message edited by: pi radians ]</p>
The four fans are ALL variable speed so they can adjust to the heat cycles as quietly as is necessary. Considering that my choice of the dual 1.25 GHz model includes 2MB L3 cache in EACH processor and that I intend to do MEMORY (Max 2GB 333 DDR) intensive work editing video with it, Superfula is way out of line trying to pit his year old 2001 dual 800 against these new bohemouths with radically more expansion capability, functionality and class.