Apple vs. Dell!
Well, I went to dell.com and configured a workstation to mach the new Dual 1 GHz Power Mac:
Category Description Product Code SKU
Dell Precision? Workstation 340 Minitower: Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor, 2.40GHz, 512K / 533 Front Side Bus 34T24 [220-9508]
Memory: 512MB PC800 ECC RDRAM® (2 RIMMS?) 512E42 [311-2402]
Keyboard: Enhanced Performance, USB, for Windows® XP (7 Hot Keys) UXP [310-1347]
Monitor: No Monitor Option N [320-3316]
Graphics Card: nVidia, Quadro4 700XGL, 64MB, VGA/DVI (dual monitor capable) 700XGL [320-0278]
Hard Drive: 80GB ATA-100 IDE, 1 inch (7200 rpm) 80I72 [340-3478]
Floppy Drive: 3.5 inch 1.44MB Floppy Drive 3 [340-3736]
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional WXP [420-1533]
Mouse: Dell, PS/2 (2-button, no scroll) WS [310-8300]
Additional Network Card: Intel PRO/1000 XT, Gigabit PCI NIC GBE [430-0319]
CD ROM, DVD, and Read-Write Drives: DVD+RW+R Combo Drive DVRWRX [313-1353]
Microsoft Office Bundled Software: Option Not Available on this System NOMSBE [461-2963]
Other Options: 1394 Controller Card 1394 [320-5440]
Hardware Support Services: 3Yr Same Day 4Hr Response Parts + Onsite Labor (M-F 8am-6pm) W3Y5X10 [900-2710] [900-2712]
Installation Services: No Installation NOINSTL [900-9987]
Mail-In Rebate Offer: $250 Mail In Rebate (Free Memory Upgrade Offer not available) 250RBT [460-5452]
Price (including Mail-in rebate): 2,778$
The Power Mac:
Dual 1 GHz G4, 2 x 256K L2, 2 x 1 MB L3 @ 500 MHz
512 MB RAM (1 DIMM)
Radeon 9000 Pro 64 MB ADC/DVI (dual monitor capable)
80 GB ATA-100 HD (7200 rpm)
Mac OS X 10.2, Mac OS 9.2
3 years AppleCare
No modem
No monitor
Price: 2,919$
Difference = 141$ (that's only 5%!)
I think the Power Mac keeps up quite well!
The dell, when configured this way, has fewer open PCI slots and less internal expansion (HD, RAM).
[ 08-14-2002: Message edited by: Power Apple ]</p>
Category Description Product Code SKU
Dell Precision? Workstation 340 Minitower: Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor, 2.40GHz, 512K / 533 Front Side Bus 34T24 [220-9508]
Memory: 512MB PC800 ECC RDRAM® (2 RIMMS?) 512E42 [311-2402]
Keyboard: Enhanced Performance, USB, for Windows® XP (7 Hot Keys) UXP [310-1347]
Monitor: No Monitor Option N [320-3316]
Graphics Card: nVidia, Quadro4 700XGL, 64MB, VGA/DVI (dual monitor capable) 700XGL [320-0278]
Hard Drive: 80GB ATA-100 IDE, 1 inch (7200 rpm) 80I72 [340-3478]
Floppy Drive: 3.5 inch 1.44MB Floppy Drive 3 [340-3736]
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional WXP [420-1533]
Mouse: Dell, PS/2 (2-button, no scroll) WS [310-8300]
Additional Network Card: Intel PRO/1000 XT, Gigabit PCI NIC GBE [430-0319]
CD ROM, DVD, and Read-Write Drives: DVD+RW+R Combo Drive DVRWRX [313-1353]
Microsoft Office Bundled Software: Option Not Available on this System NOMSBE [461-2963]
Other Options: 1394 Controller Card 1394 [320-5440]
Hardware Support Services: 3Yr Same Day 4Hr Response Parts + Onsite Labor (M-F 8am-6pm) W3Y5X10 [900-2710] [900-2712]
Installation Services: No Installation NOINSTL [900-9987]
Mail-In Rebate Offer: $250 Mail In Rebate (Free Memory Upgrade Offer not available) 250RBT [460-5452]
Price (including Mail-in rebate): 2,778$
The Power Mac:
Dual 1 GHz G4, 2 x 256K L2, 2 x 1 MB L3 @ 500 MHz
512 MB RAM (1 DIMM)
Radeon 9000 Pro 64 MB ADC/DVI (dual monitor capable)
80 GB ATA-100 HD (7200 rpm)
Mac OS X 10.2, Mac OS 9.2
3 years AppleCare
No modem
No monitor
Price: 2,919$
Difference = 141$ (that's only 5%!)
I think the Power Mac keeps up quite well!
The dell, when configured this way, has fewer open PCI slots and less internal expansion (HD, RAM).
[ 08-14-2002: Message edited by: Power Apple ]</p>
Comments
Thats WITHOUT a SuperDrive and the power/stability of UNIX. Winblows 2000 Server. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
And DELL has no class. No silver. No muzzle-brake holes on the front. Just a black box. Woo Hoo.
Good work, BTW.
Apple Tower: $4,856.00 + TAX (after mail-in LCD rebate)
Power Mac G4 Dual 1.25GHz w/167MHz system bus
1GB PC2700 DDR SDRAM - 2 DIMMs
120GB Ultra ATA drive
Optical 1 - Combo Drive (DVD/CD-RW)
Optical 2 - None
NVIDIA GeForce4 Titanium dual-display w/128MB DDR
Apple Studio Display (17" flat panel)
56K internal modem
Apple Pro Speakers
Apple Pro Keyboard - U.S. English
Mac OS - U.S. English
Apple iApps
APP for Power Mac (w/ or w/o display) - Enrollment Kit
Dell Dimension 4500: $3,136.00 no TAX (after instant rebates)
Pentium® 4 Processor at 2.53GHz with 533MHz system bus
(6) USB 2.0 ports (2 in front, 4 in back)
1GB DDR SDRAM
Dell® Enhanced Performance USB Keyboard
17" 1702FP Dell Ultrasharp™ Digital Flat Panel Display
128MB DDR NVIDIA GeForce4™ Ti 4600 Graphics Card w/DVI and TV-Out
120GB Ultra ATA/100 Hard Drive (8mb cache, 7200rpm)
Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional
MS Scroll IntelliMouse®
10/100 PCI Fast Ethernet NIC
56K PCI Telephony Modem
32x CD-RW/DVD Combo Drive
Sound Blaster Live! Digital Sound Card
Dell Movie Studio Bundle (MGI PhotoSuite + (4) 6-pin FireWire ports)
Harman Kardon HK-395 Speakers with Subwoofer
Microsoft® Works Suite 2002 w/Money 2002
Jukebox powered by MusicMatch
Dell Picture Studio, Image Expert
3 Year Limited Warranty plus 3 Year At-Home Service
6 Months of America Online Membership Included
This comparison couldn't be more fair. The Dell is $1720 less and it has a better Combo Drive, Onsite Warranty, USB 2.0 (in addition to FireWire), and sound card. I really hope Apple lowers their prices. I too would like to see them get more share of the market, but how could they? Why this huge divide between Pro and Consumer? Does someone really have to spend $5,000 for a deluxe home system?
Sure one can argue that the Mac platform is better (and for some it is), and nicer to look at - but at the end of the day when both systems are fast and stable, that's just a personal opinion.
<strong>Why did you choose the Apple Dual 1GHz? If you're going to compare, you have to choose both party's high end components</strong><hr></blockquote>
First of all, why do I have to compare the high end instead of the "middle" workstations?? What I wanted to know is how a dell workstation compares to the dual gigahertz PM, which IMO is the sweet spot right now. what's wrong with that? what you say is just plain stupid.
Secondly, the Dimension 4500 is NOT high end! Compare workstations to workstations! Your comparison is not fair at all. Try it again with a 2 GB RAM configuration...oh, wait, you can't because the Dell is NOT a workstation class machine.
[ 08-14-2002: Message edited by: Power Apple ]</p>
BALDERDASH.
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
I missed nothing. The 2.53GHz is the Wintel high-end. Apple uses dual processors to increase the speed that they currently can not offer in a new chip. A dual processor does not mean double the power.
<strong>It's not stupid, it's logical (thanks for your immature comment).</strong> <hr></blockquote>
immature or not, it's still true...
btw, I'm not saying you are stupid, just your comparison
[quote]<strong>I missed nothing.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Oh no, how about gigabit ethernet...?
what about configuring with more than 1 GB RAM???
Or more than 120 GB HD???????!!!
the Dimension 4500 is not a workstation!!!
try again
EDIT: and why do you configure it with monitor, the Apple LCD is more expensive than the dell, you should configure it without monitor.
[ 08-14-2002: Message edited by: Power Apple ]</p>
The entire idea for my comparison was to see the price differences between a supped up Dell system and Apple system. That includes the display. I am talking about the overall cost of taking home a new computer with impressive specs. This is what Apple offers for a build your own tower. The comparison is simply of towers with high-end chips and components (regardless of the name or model number) that will offer similar speed and performance but at very different prices. This is not about anything else which is what you are going on (and on) about.
Not that this is relevant, but Macs last longer? Do PCs just die in a year or two? Macs may hold their value longer - but that's because they aren't updated as often as PCs. I have both vintage Macs and PCs - they're all doing well.
I can see that this thread going on for days with pointless discussions from people who are too biased to just realize that Apple's products are overpriced. Participating in a marathon thread is not what I do, so I'll leave it at that.
Who was the one that said (in another thread) that Apple didn't have product loyalty? <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
[ 08-14-2002: Message edited by: Power Apple ]</p>
<strong>This is just too hilarious!
The entire idea for my comparison was to see the price differences between a supped up Dell system and Apple system. That includes the display. I am talking about the overall cost of taking home a new computer with impressive specs. This is what Apple offers for a build your own tower. The comparison is simply of towers with high-end chips and components (regardless of the name or model number) that will offer similar speed and performance but at very different prices. This is not about anything else which is what you are going on (and on) about.
Not that this is relevant, but Macs last longer? Do PCs just die in a year or two? Macs may hold their value longer - but that's because they aren't updated as often as PCs. I have both vintage Macs and PCs - they're all doing well.
I can see that this thread going on for days with pointless discussions from people who are too biased to just realize that Apple's products are overpriced. Participating in a marathon thread is not what I do, so I'll leave it at that.
Who was the one that said (in another thread) that Apple didn't have product loyalty? <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
The general rule of thumb in comparison shopping is to base the comparison on *equal features*.
Comparing 'high endianess' is meaningless. Let's take a high end BMW SUV and compare it to a high end Jeep, shall we? The BMW looks awfully sad in performance, and the price is just *outrageous* in comparison - yet they sell very well.
Create the feature set, *then* shop around for prices. Saying "Well, Dell's highest end kicks Apple's highest end" is meaningless except for the very very small part of the purchasing population that needs every ounce of speed - in which case they aren't going to be purchasing a high-end Dell, but a Sun workstation, if they have any real sense.
On a feature-wise basis, Apple's offerings fare pretty well. Not great, and yes, there is a small premium for being able to run MacOS X over Windows... I don't know about you, but that to me is priceless.
Which one is it? Well, I am comparing like specs for specs and you are comparing whatever you wish! If Joe Schmo is looking to buy a decked out tower system with these specs and does a comparison, he's going to see the huge difference. If Apple wants more switchers they need to address this. The eMac and iMac is too limiting for users who are used to anything they want in a tower.
[ 08-14-2002: Message edited by: Patchouli ]</p>
<strong>
The general rule of thumb in comparison shopping is to base the comparison on *equal features*.</strong><hr></blockquote>Which is EXACTLY what *I* did with my comparison! I want Apple to do more business, I am not a troll.
iPatchoulio --- Troll! Troll! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
Â? 512MB PC2100 DDR SDRAM - 1 DIMM
Â? 120GB Ultra ATA drive
Â? Optical 1 - Combo Drive (DVD/CD-RW)
Â? Optical 2 - None
Â? NVIDIA GeForce4 MX dual-display w/32MB DDR
Â? 56K internal modem
Â? Apple Pro Speakers
Â? Apple Pro Keyboard - U.S. English
Â? Mac OS - U.S. English
$2,058.00
OptiPlex GX240 Small MinitowertÂ*\tPentium® 4 Processor 2.4GHz
Integrated NIC and Sound
MemorytÂ*\t512MB Non-ECC SDRAM (1DIMM)
Video CardstÂ*\t32MB, ATI, RadeonÂ? VE, VGA/DVI (dual monitor capable)\tÂ*\t32DVI
1st Hard DrivetÂ*\t80GB ATA/100 Hard Drive (7200 RPM)\tÂ*\t80
Floppy DrivetÂ*\t1.44MB 3.5 Inch Floppy Drive\tÂ*\t3\tÂ*\t[340-2901]
Combo Drive for Windows 2000
SpeakerstÂ*\tharmon kardon 206 Speakers
2nd Hard DrivetÂ*\t40GB ATA/100 Hard Drive (7200 RPMNOINSTL\tÂ*\t[900-9987]
\tPriceÂ*
\tSub-total: \t \t$1,940.00
damn that thing got messy when pasted.
those machines are close to identical. the price difference is about $100.
the dell doesn't have gigabit ethernet, but i don't see that being that big of a deal. it doesn't have a superdrive option either so i didn't include that.
as for speed, remember that a 1Ghz P3 is as fast as a 1.4Ghz P4. i was probably being kind to the P4 speed.
i'm impressed with the offerings here.
[ 08-14-2002: Message edited by: alcimedes ]</p>
Just for fun I went into the <a href="http://www.scan.co.uk" target="_blank">www.scan.co.uk</a> shop and built myself this system:
Windows XP Pro (OEM)
MicroSoft Wireless Desktop Keyboard & Mouse
2 x 512Mb PC2700 DDR Memory (Major) (total 1024 MB DDR 2700 RAM)
Tyan Tiger MP-X Dual S2440N-4M Athlon with 10/100 Lan USB2 (2466N)-4
2 x AMD Athlon MP 2100+ (Multi Processor)(1.80GHz) Palomino Core 2
128Mb ASUS V8460 Ge-Force 4 Ultra Deluxe + TV Out, Video In + 3D Glasses
120Gb Western Digital (WD1200JB) ATA-100 (7200rpm, 8MB Cache, 8.5ms) Quiet Drive Technology
Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy Player SB1394 OEM
Pioneer DVR 104 DVDR/CDRW (OEM)
Chieftec Scorpio case DX-01-YL-D 340W PFC Midi Case
_______________________________________
Total £1,790.94 (including 17.5% VAT tax)
Around $2,761 in US money
This is the best of the best your money will get you today ! its one of the fastest systems you can and it will really run circles around the top of the range PM.
taken from applestore UK:
Dual 1.25-GHz PowerPC G4
256K L2 cache
& 2MB L3 cache/processor
167Mhz System Bus
512MB PC2700 DDR RAM
120GB Ultra ATA drive
DVD-R/CD-RW drive
ATI Radeon 9000 Pro
56K internal modem
__________________________________________
Total £2,699.00 (including 17.5% VAT tax)
Around $4,164 in US money
People ! I love Apple, and OS X is the best thing since sliced bread - It really is 10000000 times better then any other OS out there - don't misunderstand me please, but lets face it Apple have some serious Hardware problems on their hands here !
[ 08-14-2002: Message edited by: rashumon ]</p>
I like to think of it this way: Apple produces professional UNIX workstations with dual processors for less than 1'700 US dollars, which is great. If you want more, you can _have_ more.
Dell (and others) make machines that use single processors that can only be clocked that high because of the many pipeline stages in the processor. They also come with an operating system on which I don't want to work: Windows.
They are, basically, in the same price category, but it's not really the same class of machine.
[ 08-14-2002: Message edited by: fryke ]</p>
<strong>This is just too hilarious!
The entire idea for my comparison was to see the price differences between a supped up Dell system and Apple system.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Which is fair.
But the CPU is no indication of whether a system is souped up. Low end systems always try to look good by sticking a really hot processor on a thoroughly mediocre board.
Dell's professional workstation line is the Precision series. The Dimension series might have big processors, but they'll get trashed by the PowerMac (and the Precision) in motherboard bandwidth, expandability, features, etc.
So if you want to do a fair comparison, that would be the better choice.
[ 08-14-2002: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
<strong>Well, I went to dell.com and configured a workstation to mach the new Dual 1 GHz Power Mac:
Category Description Product Code SKU
Dell Precision? Workstation 340 Minitower: Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor, 2.40GHz, 512K / 533 Front Side Bus 34T24 [220-9508]
Memory: 512MB PC800 ECC RDRAM® (2 RIMMS?) 512E42 [311-2402]
Keyboard: Enhanced Performance, USB, for Windows® XP (7 Hot Keys) UXP [310-1347]
Monitor: No Monitor Option N [320-3316]
Graphics Card: nVidia, Quadro4 700XGL, 64MB, VGA/DVI (dual monitor capable) 700XGL [320-0278]
Hard Drive: 80GB ATA-100 IDE, 1 inch (7200 rpm) 80I72 [340-3478]
Floppy Drive: 3.5 inch 1.44MB Floppy Drive 3 [340-3736]
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional WXP [420-1533]
Mouse: Dell, PS/2 (2-button, no scroll) WS [310-8300]
Additional Network Card: Intel PRO/1000 XT, Gigabit PCI NIC GBE [430-0319]
CD ROM, DVD, and Read-Write Drives: DVD+RW+R Combo Drive DVRWRX [313-1353]
Microsoft Office Bundled Software: Option Not Available on this System NOMSBE [461-2963]
Other Options: 1394 Controller Card 1394 [320-5440]
Hardware Support Services: 3Yr Same Day 4Hr Response Parts + Onsite Labor (M-F 8am-6pm) W3Y5X10 [900-2710] [900-2712]
Installation Services: No Installation NOINSTL [900-9987]
Mail-In Rebate Offer: $250 Mail In Rebate (Free Memory Upgrade Offer not available) 250RBT [460-5452]
Price (including Mail-in rebate): 2,778$
The Power Mac:
Dual 1 GHz G4, 2 x 256K L2, 2 x 1 MB L3 @ 500 MHz
512 MB RAM (1 DIMM)
Radeon 9000 Pro 64 MB ADC/DVI (dual monitor capable)
80 GB ATA-100 HD (7200 rpm)
Mac OS X 10.2, Mac OS 9.2
3 years AppleCare
No modem
No monitor
Price: 2,919$
Difference = 141$ (that's only 5%!)
I think the Power Mac keeps up quite well!
The dell, when configured this way, has fewer open PCI slots and less internal expansion (HD, RAM).
[ 08-14-2002: Message edited by: Power Apple ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
your quote is flawed...
nvidia quadro4 is not the same as ati r9000 pro serial. r9000 is for general desktop while quadro4 is not. you need to add at least $800 or even $1000 to dell's price.
<strong>Ah bah... Stop comparing those prices already. You won't be able to definitely determine whether a Dual 1.25 GHz machine is faster than a P4 2.5 GHz or not, as they are simply faster in different tasks.
I like to think of it this way: Apple produces professional UNIX workstations with dual processors for less than 1'700 US dollars, which is great. If you want more, you can _have_ more.
Dell (and others) make machines that use single processors that can only be clocked that high because of the many pipeline stages in the processor. They also come with an operating system on which I don't want to work: Windows.
They are, basically, in the same price category, but it's not really the same class of machine.
[ 08-14-2002: Message edited by: fryke ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
dell or others do have dual processor based workstation. if not installed xp you could get red hat linux.
isn't it fair enough to compare dual processor pc and dual processor mac? also, because of mhz gap, let us fall back to intel xoen p3 processor at similar speed range. so can any one provide a list to compare a dual 1.25 ghz new mac tower with a dual 1.5 ghz intel xoen tower?
<strong>The Dell:
Graphics Card: nVidia, Quadro4 700XGL, 64MB, VGA/DVI (dual monitor capable) 700XGL
The Power Mac:
Radeon 9000 Pro 64 MB ADC/DVI (dual monitor capable)
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Make a note of the different video cards. The Quadro4 is a workstation class card and is very $$$$$. The Radeon 9000 Pro is a replacement for the Radeon 7500 - a cheap consumer card. A PC version can be purchased for $148cnd or under $100us. The two really don't compare.