Dell just introduced their Inspiron 700m notebook, which looks like a POS (built-in-graphics), however it has a 12.1 widescreen display. Sony's 13.3" widescreen display looks much more appealing (both physically and mentally).
I seem to have the gut feeling that Apple is working on improving the PowerBook line soon. One thing that does get left out of the picture, however, is the iBook. That iBook form factor really hasn't been modified (except for its color tone) since it was intro'd in May 2001. So I think Apple may revamp that at MacExpo Paris, don't you think?
I don't see how anyone could balk at a 2Ghz G4 as a laptop chip, not if even minor improvements to the FSB are made. So long as the bus can work at even just DDR266 data rates, it will be more than enough to equal Centrino.
If the revised PB's feature a .09u CPU part, have anything like a 266DDR or above bus, then they'll be right there, and possibly a little ahead as far as "mobile" CPU performance goes.
I don't see how anyone could balk at a 2Ghz G4 as a laptop chip, not if even minor improvements to the FSB are made. So long as the bus can work at even just DDR266 data rates, it will be more than enough to equal Centrino.
They need to drop the FSB alltogether. At 2Ghz, a G4 with integrated memory controller would be exactly what Apple needs. But I wouldn't mind if they did updated the core as well, but that's probably hoping for too much.
What ever happened to RapidIO? I think an updated G4 core with an on-die memory controller and RIO connector to a peripheral controller would be a sweet laptop processor.
There's one more G4 in the pipeline, the 7448, and the odds are that it'll be one more iteration of the CPU we all know and love so well. But it will be 90nm. A dual-core variant would be a great PowerBook chip. A single-core variant would do well in an iBook or eMac. And then Freescale will start shipping the G4's RapidIO-enabled successors next year (fingers crossed) and IBM will have had more time to make a 970 variant that really is a good laptop processor.
One thing to keep in mind: Crolles 2, the 90nm fab Freescale is using, is a much nicer one than they could afford themselves. As Mot SPS, they always got great results in the lab, but they never could replicate them easily in their increasingly dingy fabs. They're going to 90nm with their full sleeve of process tricks and with chip designs that are laid out to avoid hot spots, meaning that they shouldn't have quite the problems with heat density that IBM and Intel have had. Like AMD (who, BTW, will be using Mot's process tech as well) they realized early on that the transition to 90nm would be hairy, and they've taken their time getting there: Crolles 2 has been online since last winter, but they've set it to making relatively easy things like memory while they figure out how to reliably mass produce CPUs.
It's important to remember that Mot SPS/Freescale went into this alliance precisely to address one of the biggest problems they were having: Mot didn't have the money to keep their fabs clean. The rules are different now, especially with IBM and Intel stumbling out of the gate, and Freescale has a chance to become a player again.
I don't see how anyone could balk at a 2Ghz G4 as a laptop chip, not if even minor improvements to the FSB are made.
I'd love a 2Ghz G4, I just don't think Motorola (Freescale) can produce a 2Ghz G4. Maybe they'll prove me wrong, but so far there's no hint that they will.
Amorph's info is interesting, but it seems we've been talking about Crolles 2 for awhile now. Of course we were talking about the G5 for awhile before it came around. But if Motorola doesn't get to a 2.0 G4 by February, well then forget about it. They'll be used for iBooks and eMacs and that's it.
There's one more G4 in the pipeline, the 7448, and the odds are that it'll be one more iteration of the CPU we all know and love so well. But it will be 90nm. A dual-core variant would be a great PowerBook chip. A single-core variant would do well in an iBook or eMac. And then Freescale will start shipping the G4's RapidIO-enabled successors next year (fingers crossed) and IBM will have had more time to make a 970 variant that really is a good laptop processor.
One thing to keep in mind: Crolles 2, the 90nm fab Freescale is using, is a much nicer one than they could afford themselves. As Mot SPS, they always got great results in the lab, but they never could replicate them easily in their increasingly dingy fabs. They're going to 90nm with their full sleeve of process tricks and with chip designs that are laid out to avoid hot spots, meaning that they shouldn't have quite the problems with heat density that IBM and Intel have had. Like AMD (who, BTW, will be using Mot's process tech as well) they realized early on that the transition to 90nm would be hairy, and they've taken their time getting there: Crolles 2 has been online since last winter, but they've set it to making relatively easy things like memory while they figure out how to reliably mass produce CPUs.
It's important to remember that Mot SPS/Freescale went into this alliance precisely to address one of the biggest problems they were having: Mot didn't have the money to keep their fabs clean. The rules are different now, especially with IBM and Intel stumbling out of the gate, and Freescale has a chance to become a player again.
Took the words right out of my mouth. FreeScale, IMHO, has the perfect setup for a comeback. Their diffiult transition to 130nm will also help them as they've analyzed and worked around chip hot spots. This may help the FreeScale chips to scale better than their competitors, IBM & Intel.
I'll be interested in hearing news when the guy from FreeScale discusses FreeScale's dual core PPCs. The e600 is supposed to be offered in that configuration from the getgo. The Big Question is this: Will the dual-core e600s be ready in October for a PowerBook refresh, or will we have to wait until March?
My guess is we will get a 90nm version of the present G4 running at 2GHZ in October, but the next refresh will feature a dual-core G4 with an on-die memory controller that will catapult Apple's laptop offerings to the top of the heat in speed and power efficiency.
Let's face it, Motorola has been very good about producing low draw chips that are perfect for laptops. They are set up for the task of doing this better than IBM is. The 970MP is far from being a portable chip, although it will be a superior desktop solution. The e600, however, is perfect for the PowerBooks and the iBooks.
Who's to say that both lineups won't get dual-core chips. The iBooks could be clocked slower and have slower memory, giving the PowerBooks the advantage. We know the PowerBooks will have stronger video offerings and better LCDs as well, and they'll be the first to get OLEDs when they become economical in those sizes.
With any luck, we'll see the Motorola e600 in the notebooks (and maybe in the eMac) early next year. The 970MP will find its way into the PowerMac and a faster 970FX will be in the new iMac. There's a possibility that all Macs will ship above 2GHZ by early next year, depending on how far up the e600s go and ho wmuch power they dissapate.
I'd love a 2Ghz G4, I just don't think Motorola (Freescale) can produce a 2Ghz G4. Maybe they'll prove me wrong, but so far there's no hint that they will.
They've been dropping hints, it's just that they have a bit of a credibility problem right now in this area, which they've earned. But they also seem to have taken a number of steps to get right — not just Freescale, but Mot generally. Who'd have thought that Mot would be eating Nokia's lunch in the cellphone market this year?
You'd expect a 30% clock speed increase from 130nm -> 90nm. The 7447A is currently sitting at 1.5GHz. 130% of 1.5GHz is 1.95GHz. Even assuming no decrease in voltage [edit: I meant wattage], that's a 2GHz CPU with a best-in-class heat density that could go in a PowerBook (because there's already one in a PowerBook). I think it's doable, now that Mot has the technological equivalent of Fishkill to play with.
Quote:
Amorph's info is interesting, but it seems we've been talking about Crolles 2 for awhile now. Of course we were talking about the G5 for awhile before it came around. But if Motorola doesn't get to a 2.0 G4 by February, well then forget about it. They'll be used for iBooks and eMacs and that's it.
Mot trumpeted the Crolles 2 alliance for a good long time, because they wanted to signal that they'd slain one of their dragons. It went online on schedule, and if it starts producing CPUs sometime in the next couple of months then it'll have remained on schedule. If everything goes according to plan — so far, everything in this alliance has — then Freescale will be serving up 90nm with all the goodies, something not even IBM has managed, and I can see them hitting 2GHz easily with the last G4.
Amorph, do you expect Freescale to adress the FSB shortcomings of the G4 architecture in this coming revision, or do you feel that that's something we have to wait for the fabled e600(?) to bring to the table?
does anybody here believe that Apple would even look at a chip with RapidIO? Apple has invested alot of time and money into e-bus and hypertransport, I can't see this being thrown away for nothing.
Since e600 implies a configurable processor I can see a Hypertransport port bus being available in the future. It may be Freescale IP or owned by Apple. That is if Apple continues to look at G4 hardware at all.
Dave
Quote:
Originally posted by Outsider
What ever happened to RapidIO? I think an updated G4 core with an on-die memory controller and RIO connector to a peripheral controller would be a sweet laptop processor.
To determine whether Freescale addresses the FSB situation in the next G4, you may have to figure out what Next-Gen Discrete means. As far as I know that is the only information provided @ Freescale's website describing the next G4?
I would assume that it's a die-shrunk G4, for better and for worse, until we know otherwise. If two 1.25GHz G4s can do OK on one MaxBus, one 2GHz G4 can do OK.
"Discrete" is pretty clearly opposed to "integrated," which means that it's a traditional CPU with a system bus. Since Motorola really only has one system bus, and since there's no way in Hell they're going to introduce a new bus for the last revision of a legacy CPU, it's pretty much certain to be MaxBus. Perhaps they'll be able to get the frequency up to 200MHz or so this time?
Obviously, this is nothing to get excited about. But the good news is, this is now confirmed as the last G4, and the last Motorola CPU (that we care about) shipping without an integrated memory controller.
Now next year, maybe just maybe, Freescale will have the alleged Rapid I/O interconnect e600/e700 core to go with the 0.09µm process, but will this be too late?
Isn't the e600 supposed to be out by the end of the summer (or thereabouts)?
[edit-- Didn't realize there was a second page. oops ]
does anybody here believe that Apple would even look at a chip with RapidIO? Apple has invested alot of time and money into e-bus and hypertransport, I can't see this being thrown away for nothing.
Since e600 implies a configurable processor I can see a Hypertransport port bus being available in the future. It may be Freescale IP or owned by Apple. That is if Apple continues to look at G4 hardware at all.
Another possibility is that the design of Apple's northbridge chip is modular, and they can swap out the Elastic Bus bits with RapidIO bits.
I certainly hope that Freescale is able to get back in the game and provide competitive processors, in whatever space (portable or desktop) they can manage. Competition is good, as are multiple sources for processors...
Good catch Freddy. I think it is new news . Obviously, we talk about the e600 here. So, we can expect the e600 in the Powerbooks for the next spring, or rather beginning of summer 2005, I think.
Comments
I seem to have the gut feeling that Apple is working on improving the PowerBook line soon. One thing that does get left out of the picture, however, is the iBook. That iBook form factor really hasn't been modified (except for its color tone) since it was intro'd in May 2001. So I think Apple may revamp that at MacExpo Paris, don't you think?
If the revised PB's feature a .09u CPU part, have anything like a 266DDR or above bus, then they'll be right there, and possibly a little ahead as far as "mobile" CPU performance goes.
My eyes or an the MPF 2004:
Freescale's First Dual-Core PowerPC Processor
presented by Toby Foster, System Architect, Freescale Semiconductor
http://www.mdronline.com/fpf04/conf.html
Old news? Dunno!
Originally posted by Matsu
I don't see how anyone could balk at a 2Ghz G4 as a laptop chip, not if even minor improvements to the FSB are made. So long as the bus can work at even just DDR266 data rates, it will be more than enough to equal Centrino.
They need to drop the FSB alltogether. At 2Ghz, a G4 with integrated memory controller would be exactly what Apple needs. But I wouldn't mind if they did updated the core as well, but that's probably hoping for too much.
There's one more G4 in the pipeline, the 7448, and the odds are that it'll be one more iteration of the CPU we all know and love so well. But it will be 90nm. A dual-core variant would be a great PowerBook chip. A single-core variant would do well in an iBook or eMac. And then Freescale will start shipping the G4's RapidIO-enabled successors next year (fingers crossed) and IBM will have had more time to make a 970 variant that really is a good laptop processor.
One thing to keep in mind: Crolles 2, the 90nm fab Freescale is using, is a much nicer one than they could afford themselves. As Mot SPS, they always got great results in the lab, but they never could replicate them easily in their increasingly dingy fabs. They're going to 90nm with their full sleeve of process tricks and with chip designs that are laid out to avoid hot spots, meaning that they shouldn't have quite the problems with heat density that IBM and Intel have had. Like AMD (who, BTW, will be using Mot's process tech as well) they realized early on that the transition to 90nm would be hairy, and they've taken their time getting there: Crolles 2 has been online since last winter, but they've set it to making relatively easy things like memory while they figure out how to reliably mass produce CPUs.
It's important to remember that Mot SPS/Freescale went into this alliance precisely to address one of the biggest problems they were having: Mot didn't have the money to keep their fabs clean. The rules are different now, especially with IBM and Intel stumbling out of the gate, and Freescale has a chance to become a player again.
Originally posted by Jambo
[Mod Edit - Deleted Leonard's quadruple post
Ooopsy, I had some problems yesterday afternoon accessing the forum. I kept getting an error message when I replied, so I kept on trying.
Now that explains the echo post.
Originally posted by Matsu
I don't see how anyone could balk at a 2Ghz G4 as a laptop chip, not if even minor improvements to the FSB are made.
I'd love a 2Ghz G4, I just don't think Motorola (Freescale) can produce a 2Ghz G4. Maybe they'll prove me wrong, but so far there's no hint that they will.
Amorph's info is interesting, but it seems we've been talking about Crolles 2 for awhile now. Of course we were talking about the G5 for awhile before it came around. But if Motorola doesn't get to a 2.0 G4 by February, well then forget about it. They'll be used for iBooks and eMacs and that's it.
Originally posted by Amorph
RapidIO is coming with the e600 core.
There's one more G4 in the pipeline, the 7448, and the odds are that it'll be one more iteration of the CPU we all know and love so well. But it will be 90nm. A dual-core variant would be a great PowerBook chip. A single-core variant would do well in an iBook or eMac. And then Freescale will start shipping the G4's RapidIO-enabled successors next year (fingers crossed) and IBM will have had more time to make a 970 variant that really is a good laptop processor.
One thing to keep in mind: Crolles 2, the 90nm fab Freescale is using, is a much nicer one than they could afford themselves. As Mot SPS, they always got great results in the lab, but they never could replicate them easily in their increasingly dingy fabs. They're going to 90nm with their full sleeve of process tricks and with chip designs that are laid out to avoid hot spots, meaning that they shouldn't have quite the problems with heat density that IBM and Intel have had. Like AMD (who, BTW, will be using Mot's process tech as well) they realized early on that the transition to 90nm would be hairy, and they've taken their time getting there: Crolles 2 has been online since last winter, but they've set it to making relatively easy things like memory while they figure out how to reliably mass produce CPUs.
It's important to remember that Mot SPS/Freescale went into this alliance precisely to address one of the biggest problems they were having: Mot didn't have the money to keep their fabs clean. The rules are different now, especially with IBM and Intel stumbling out of the gate, and Freescale has a chance to become a player again.
Took the words right out of my mouth. FreeScale, IMHO, has the perfect setup for a comeback. Their diffiult transition to 130nm will also help them as they've analyzed and worked around chip hot spots. This may help the FreeScale chips to scale better than their competitors, IBM & Intel.
I'll be interested in hearing news when the guy from FreeScale discusses FreeScale's dual core PPCs. The e600 is supposed to be offered in that configuration from the getgo. The Big Question is this: Will the dual-core e600s be ready in October for a PowerBook refresh, or will we have to wait until March?
My guess is we will get a 90nm version of the present G4 running at 2GHZ in October, but the next refresh will feature a dual-core G4 with an on-die memory controller that will catapult Apple's laptop offerings to the top of the heat in speed and power efficiency.
Let's face it, Motorola has been very good about producing low draw chips that are perfect for laptops. They are set up for the task of doing this better than IBM is. The 970MP is far from being a portable chip, although it will be a superior desktop solution. The e600, however, is perfect for the PowerBooks and the iBooks.
Who's to say that both lineups won't get dual-core chips. The iBooks could be clocked slower and have slower memory, giving the PowerBooks the advantage. We know the PowerBooks will have stronger video offerings and better LCDs as well, and they'll be the first to get OLEDs when they become economical in those sizes.
With any luck, we'll see the Motorola e600 in the notebooks (and maybe in the eMac) early next year. The 970MP will find its way into the PowerMac and a faster 970FX will be in the new iMac. There's a possibility that all Macs will ship above 2GHZ by early next year, depending on how far up the e600s go and ho wmuch power they dissapate.
Originally posted by Leonard
I'd love a 2Ghz G4, I just don't think Motorola (Freescale) can produce a 2Ghz G4. Maybe they'll prove me wrong, but so far there's no hint that they will.
They've been dropping hints, it's just that they have a bit of a credibility problem right now in this area, which they've earned. But they also seem to have taken a number of steps to get right — not just Freescale, but Mot generally. Who'd have thought that Mot would be eating Nokia's lunch in the cellphone market this year?
You'd expect a 30% clock speed increase from 130nm -> 90nm. The 7447A is currently sitting at 1.5GHz. 130% of 1.5GHz is 1.95GHz. Even assuming no decrease in voltage [edit: I meant wattage], that's a 2GHz CPU with a best-in-class heat density that could go in a PowerBook (because there's already one in a PowerBook). I think it's doable, now that Mot has the technological equivalent of Fishkill to play with.
Amorph's info is interesting, but it seems we've been talking about Crolles 2 for awhile now. Of course we were talking about the G5 for awhile before it came around. But if Motorola doesn't get to a 2.0 G4 by February, well then forget about it. They'll be used for iBooks and eMacs and that's it.
Mot trumpeted the Crolles 2 alliance for a good long time, because they wanted to signal that they'd slain one of their dragons. It went online on schedule, and if it starts producing CPUs sometime in the next couple of months then it'll have remained on schedule. If everything goes according to plan — so far, everything in this alliance has — then Freescale will be serving up 90nm with all the goodies, something not even IBM has managed, and I can see them hitting 2GHz easily with the last G4.
Since e600 implies a configurable processor I can see a Hypertransport port bus being available in the future. It may be Freescale IP or owned by Apple. That is if Apple continues to look at G4 hardware at all.
Dave
Originally posted by Outsider
What ever happened to RapidIO? I think an updated G4 core with an on-die memory controller and RIO connector to a peripheral controller would be a sweet laptop processor.
Anyone have additional information?
"Discrete" is pretty clearly opposed to "integrated," which means that it's a traditional CPU with a system bus. Since Motorola really only has one system bus, and since there's no way in Hell they're going to introduce a new bus for the last revision of a legacy CPU, it's pretty much certain to be MaxBus. Perhaps they'll be able to get the frequency up to 200MHz or so this time?
Obviously, this is nothing to get excited about. But the good news is, this is now confirmed as the last G4, and the last Motorola CPU (that we care about) shipping without an integrated memory controller.
Now next year, maybe just maybe, Freescale will have the alleged Rapid I/O interconnect e600/e700 core to go with the 0.09µm process, but will this be too late?
Isn't the e600 supposed to be out by the end of the summer (or thereabouts)?
[edit-- Didn't realize there was a second page. oops
does anybody here believe that Apple would even look at a chip with RapidIO? Apple has invested alot of time and money into e-bus and hypertransport, I can't see this being thrown away for nothing.
Since e600 implies a configurable processor I can see a Hypertransport port bus being available in the future. It may be Freescale IP or owned by Apple. That is if Apple continues to look at G4 hardware at all.
Another possibility is that the design of Apple's northbridge chip is modular, and they can swap out the Elastic Bus bits with RapidIO bits.
I certainly hope that Freescale is able to get back in the game and provide competitive processors, in whatever space (portable or desktop) they can manage. Competition is good, as are multiple sources for processors...
Originally posted by Fat Freddy
My eyes or an the MPF 2004:
http://www.mdronline.com/fpf04/conf.html
Old news? Dunno!
Good catch Freddy. I think it is new news