If your thing is being able to swap video cards and such things, well, get a $500 PC that won't break the bank. Good things cost money. If the PowerMac costs a lot it's because it's much better than a $500 dollar computer. Macs have never been cheap.
I bought a Performa 6360 in 1996 from Apple. It costs 1299 and and had a PCI slot for expansion/graphic card upgrade, a comm slot for ethernet/modem upgrades, a video slot for video i/o and fm/tv tuner, an L2 cache slot for faster performance upgrades, and user accessible drive bays.
It was 160Mhz 603ev and was a good performer for the time.
That's a better consumer machine than anything Apple has produced in the last couple years.
I bought a Performa 6360 in 1996 from Apple. It costs 1299 and and had a PCI slot for expansion/graphic card upgrade, a comm slot for ethernet/modem upgrades, a video slot for video i/o and fm/tv tuner, an L2 cache slot for faster performance upgrades, and user accessible drive bays.
It was 160Mhz 603ev and was a good performer for the time.
That's a better consumer machine than anything Apple has produced in the last couple years.
Macs haven't always been expensive
Yeah I bought an Impala in in 1976 and it had an 8-track.
I'm speaking about the iMac era. I shouldn't have generalized.
Think secret does have a pretty good record on this stuff and these specs sound like Apple we all know and "ahem" love. when you consider they are putting this P.O.S 5200 in $2000 and $2500 Powermacs. They must have contracted a boatload of these last year and still have boatloads to get rid of. I do think its funny though when you go to Apples gaming page. you would think 5200 is a godsend to Macgamers. read over at toms hardware and they dont even bother with that card on benches of newer stuff. the fact is we as consumers are buying top end computers from Apple and they are pushing the cheapist video crap made and wanting high dollar for what is considered garbage in PC land. Truth hurts but apple cant go lower on its video unless it goes backward in time.
you were not speaking about the iMac era. and you're attempt at being a smart ass only succeeded in one thing, making you look like an ass
the original iMac was a better value at its time than this current one will be.
That's a fact that you can't ignore.
Don't get angry, nut.
The iMac has never been upgradable and has never been cheap. So I was talking about the iMac era. Even when iMacs were 999 they weren't cheap. And they've never been truly upgradable.
The original WAS a better value at its time, but I was never debating that, so you tell me how it feels to look like an ass. I was debating the fact that the iMac will never be a PowerMac priced at the eMacs price. Sorry, kid.
It's clearly Apple sticking it to their 'fans' in the ass because they know they can. Apple wouldn't survive two minutes in the PC market. They had their ass handed to them when they tried cloning their Mac.
I'm a consumer Programmer and I expect better from Apple who are clearly smokin' their own brand of crack. BMW comparisons by Apple? Then why no use quality components?
If they're going to charge crack-pipe prices then it's okay for consumers to expect crack-pipe specks.
We'll see if the 'new' iMacs sell any better than the old ones after the 1st two quarters before certain people blame slack sales on laptops...
Lemon Bon Bon
Testify!
You have to admire Apple a bit for doing things their way, but they take it too far - the customer IS right at least some of the time. Stubbornly, Apple ignores this fact at its own risk and pays the price.
I laugh at the Apple Apologist who say "If you want a faster video card/more ram/ get a Dell!" THe problem is, that's what people are doing! Supposedly that's a trend Apple wants to reverse. As I recall, as they began opening stores, Apple said they wanted to increase market share to 10% - you simply can't do that by charging higher prices for crippled consumer machines - they are proving that every year.
IF they want to improve marketshare, they have to improve GPU and RAM offerings. It probably wouldn't hurt either if warranties were longer or extended warranties and support less expensive. These are simple indicators of performance and service potential that average consumers relate to when comparing competing products.
I was at the Apple store in West Farms today. No employee told me any inside information but I took a good look at the new Cinema Displays, If the new iMac looks like a Cinema Display with the exception of thickness to accommodate the guts I will definitly get one. Those new aluminum displays are truly kickass. minimal border and clean styling. I picture one with just keyboard and mouse and I like it. I like it a lot.
If your thing is being able to swap video cards and such things, well, get a $500 PC that won't break the bank. Good things cost money. If the PowerMac costs a lot it's because it's much better than a $500 dollar computer.
The above is the one of the most stupid things I've read on these boards.
I have read all the comments about the need to have an iMac that is upgradeable (hardware).
Sorry but most of the world does not need a computer that they upgrade beyond adding RAM.
I have installed hundreds of AIO Macs and found that most (85%) never add anything to the machine except RAM. After having the machine anywhere from 3-5 years they just replace the machine.
They obviously would not receive any benefit by the additional complexity and cost of an upgradeable iMac.
I do agree that apple does need an additional line of machines that would consist of a single CPU, the ability to install 2gB of RAM, replaceable Video card and 1 additional card slot. This would be used by game players and people who like the Mac but want more that an iMac but do not need a tower.
Marketshare is an overrated concept because that's a percentage that can decrease while the total number of users is increasing.
Thank you. I agree that marketshare is a very misleading number at times (most all the time in fact). PC's are available in many markets that Macs are not. Mac sales could grow in the markets like the US/Europe/Canada etc and still show declining marketshare.
The iMac has never been upgradable and has never been cheap. So I was talking about the iMac era. Even when iMacs were 999 they weren't cheap. And they've never been truly upgradable.
The original WAS a better value at its time, but I was never debating that, so you tell me how it feels to look like an ass. I was debating the fact that the iMac will never be a PowerMac priced at the eMacs price. Sorry, kid.
Actually the first iMac had a mezzanine slot which people exploited to add SCSI support and there was also a Voodoo graphic upgrade for it. Apple disabled it in an update and ensured it did not ship on any iMac post-rev. A.
The iMac has never been upgradable and has never been cheap. So I was talking about the iMac era. Even when iMacs were 999 they weren't cheap. And they've never been truly upgradable.
The original WAS a better value at its time, but I was never debating that, so you tell me how it feels to look like an ass. I was debating the fact that the iMac will never be a PowerMac priced at the eMacs price. Sorry, kid.
Actually you are wrong, the original Bondi Blue iMac was upgadable. It had a slot called a Mezzanine slot if I recall corectly which was there for future upgrades from Apple that never appeared. There was an upgrade manufacturer that did release a card for it as well, I think it was a video upgrade.
Actually the first iMac had a mezzanine slot which people exploited to add SCSI support and there was also a Voodoo graphic upgrade for it. Apple disabled it in an update and ensured it did not ship on any iMac post-rev. A.
Actually you are wrong, the original Bondi Blue iMac was upgadable. It had a slot called a Mezzanine slot if I recall corectly which was there for future upgrades from Apple that never appeared. There was an upgrade manufacturer that did release a card for it as well, I think it was a video upgrade.
Right. You're right. But since then, the iMac has moved away from that. It's handled very differently and marketed very differently than when it first appeared. People that want to upgrade are better suited with a PM to get their choice of video cards, displays, etc.
In my opinion all this bickering about the video card is just missing the fundamental flaws of the current and now apparently next generation iMac. It seems like if Apple throws in a slightly better video card, you all will be content.
NOT ME!
Attached screen, no upgradeability is just killing. I think Apple only has a real chance to sell to consumers who want to >do stuff< with their computers. But they just don't have any hardware for that market. At least not on the desktop.
Well, if they want to release such a computer in a new lineup, that would be fine with me too. But they would just be inviting another eMac style embarrassment.
Comments
Originally posted by monkeyastronaut
If your thing is being able to swap video cards and such things, well, get a $500 PC that won't break the bank. Good things cost money. If the PowerMac costs a lot it's because it's much better than a $500 dollar computer. Macs have never been cheap.
I bought a Performa 6360 in 1996 from Apple. It costs 1299 and and had a PCI slot for expansion/graphic card upgrade, a comm slot for ethernet/modem upgrades, a video slot for video i/o and fm/tv tuner, an L2 cache slot for faster performance upgrades, and user accessible drive bays.
It was 160Mhz 603ev and was a good performer for the time.
That's a better consumer machine than anything Apple has produced in the last couple years.
Macs haven't always been expensive
Originally posted by applenut
I bought a Performa 6360 in 1996 from Apple. It costs 1299 and and had a PCI slot for expansion/graphic card upgrade, a comm slot for ethernet/modem upgrades, a video slot for video i/o and fm/tv tuner, an L2 cache slot for faster performance upgrades, and user accessible drive bays.
It was 160Mhz 603ev and was a good performer for the time.
That's a better consumer machine than anything Apple has produced in the last couple years.
Macs haven't always been expensive
Yeah I bought an Impala in in 1976 and it had an 8-track.
I'm speaking about the iMac era. I shouldn't have generalized.
Originally posted by Aurora
Truth hurts but apple cant go lower on its video unless it goes backward in time.
They might do it. Think Secret just reported the G5 iMac will actually be a re-release of the 20th Anniversary Macintosh.
Originally posted by monkeyastronaut
Yeah I bought an Impala in in 1976 and it had an 8-track.
I'm speaking about the iMac era. I shouldn't have generalized.
you were not speaking about the iMac era. and you're attempt at being a smart ass only succeeded in one thing, making you look like an ass
the original iMac was a better value at its time than this current one will be.
That's a fact that you can't ignore.
Originally posted by applenut
you were not speaking about the iMac era. and you're attempt at being a smart ass only succeeded in one thing, making you look like an ass
the original iMac was a better value at its time than this current one will be.
That's a fact that you can't ignore.
The iMac has never been upgradable and has never been cheap. So I was talking about the iMac era. Even when iMacs were 999 they weren't cheap. And they've never been truly upgradable.
The original WAS a better value at its time, but I was never debating that, so you tell me how it feels to look like an ass. I was debating the fact that the iMac will never be a PowerMac priced at the eMacs price. Sorry, kid.
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
I wonder why...
It's clearly Apple sticking it to their 'fans' in the ass because they know they can. Apple wouldn't survive two minutes in the PC market. They had their ass handed to them when they tried cloning their Mac.
I'm a consumer Programmer and I expect better from Apple who are clearly smokin' their own brand of crack. BMW comparisons by Apple? Then why no use quality components?
If they're going to charge crack-pipe prices then it's okay for consumers to expect crack-pipe specks.
We'll see if the 'new' iMacs sell any better than the old ones after the 1st two quarters before certain people blame slack sales on laptops...
Lemon Bon Bon
Testify!
You have to admire Apple a bit for doing things their way, but they take it too far - the customer IS right at least some of the time. Stubbornly, Apple ignores this fact at its own risk and pays the price.
I laugh at the Apple Apologist who say "If you want a faster video card/more ram/ get a Dell!" THe problem is, that's what people are doing! Supposedly that's a trend Apple wants to reverse. As I recall, as they began opening stores, Apple said they wanted to increase market share to 10% - you simply can't do that by charging higher prices for crippled consumer machines - they are proving that every year.
IF they want to improve marketshare, they have to improve GPU and RAM offerings. It probably wouldn't hurt either if warranties were longer or extended warranties and support less expensive. These are simple indicators of performance and service potential that average consumers relate to when comparing competing products.
Originally posted by monkeyastronaut
If your thing is being able to swap video cards and such things, well, get a $500 PC that won't break the bank. Good things cost money. If the PowerMac costs a lot it's because it's much better than a $500 dollar computer.
The above is the one of the most stupid things I've read on these boards.
Sorry but most of the world does not need a computer that they upgrade beyond adding RAM.
I have installed hundreds of AIO Macs and found that most (85%) never add anything to the machine except RAM. After having the machine anywhere from 3-5 years they just replace the machine.
They obviously would not receive any benefit by the additional complexity and cost of an upgradeable iMac.
I do agree that apple does need an additional line of machines that would consist of a single CPU, the ability to install 2gB of RAM, replaceable Video card and 1 additional card slot. This would be used by game players and people who like the Mac but want more that an iMac but do not need a tower.
Originally posted by monkeyastronaut
Marketshare is an overrated concept because that's a percentage that can decrease while the total number of users is increasing.
Thank you. I agree that marketshare is a very misleading number at times (most all the time in fact). PC's are available in many markets that Macs are not. Mac sales could grow in the markets like the US/Europe/Canada etc and still show declining marketshare.
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/gra...ournament_2003
Make sure you don't base your performance estimates on the iMac's performance -- the G4's slow bus is the culprit there.
Originally posted by monkeyastronaut
The iMac has never been upgradable and has never been cheap. So I was talking about the iMac era. Even when iMacs were 999 they weren't cheap. And they've never been truly upgradable.
The original WAS a better value at its time, but I was never debating that, so you tell me how it feels to look like an ass. I was debating the fact that the iMac will never be a PowerMac priced at the eMacs price. Sorry, kid.
Actually the first iMac had a mezzanine slot which people exploited to add SCSI support and there was also a Voodoo graphic upgrade for it. Apple disabled it in an update and ensured it did not ship on any iMac post-rev. A.
Originally posted by monkeyastronaut
The iMac has never been upgradable and has never been cheap. So I was talking about the iMac era. Even when iMacs were 999 they weren't cheap. And they've never been truly upgradable.
The original WAS a better value at its time, but I was never debating that, so you tell me how it feels to look like an ass. I was debating the fact that the iMac will never be a PowerMac priced at the eMacs price. Sorry, kid.
Actually you are wrong, the original Bondi Blue iMac was upgadable. It had a slot called a Mezzanine slot if I recall corectly which was there for future upgrades from Apple that never appeared. There was an upgrade manufacturer that did release a card for it as well, I think it was a video upgrade.
Originally posted by Existence
The above is the one of the most stupid things I've read on these boards.
Every bit of it is true. A powermac is better than any 500 dollar PC. and Good things cost more.
Originally posted by Bancho
Actually the first iMac had a mezzanine slot which people exploited to add SCSI support and there was also a Voodoo graphic upgrade for it. Apple disabled it in an update and ensured it did not ship on any iMac post-rev. A.
My mistake! You're so right!
Originally posted by @homenow
Actually you are wrong, the original Bondi Blue iMac was upgadable. It had a slot called a Mezzanine slot if I recall corectly which was there for future upgrades from Apple that never appeared. There was an upgrade manufacturer that did release a card for it as well, I think it was a video upgrade.
Right. You're right. But since then, the iMac has moved away from that. It's handled very differently and marketed very differently than when it first appeared. People that want to upgrade are better suited with a PM to get their choice of video cards, displays, etc.
NOT ME!
Attached screen, no upgradeability is just killing. I think Apple only has a real chance to sell to consumers who want to >do stuff< with their computers. But they just don't have any hardware for that market. At least not on the desktop.
Well, if they want to release such a computer in a new lineup, that would be fine with me too. But they would just be inviting another eMac style embarrassment.
Originally posted by monkeyastronaut
My mistake! You're so right!
Dont forget that the iMac I also had an upgradable cpu. I think it used the same socket as the powermac cpu.