Anyone have any thoughts on the gymnastics controversies? Quick summary:
1. Paul Hamm wins first-ever men's all-around gold for the US, after falling on his vault, by finishing with two stupendous routines. Two Koreans, who were 1-2 going into the final event, turn in lackluster final performances and finish 2-3.
2. Two days later, the Koreans file a protest. After reviewing the tapes, they find that the #3 finisher should have gotten an extra 0.1 points on his second routine (before he was even in medal contention). Korea claims that judging is biased in favor of the US.
3. Several days later, the US announces that, having reviewed the same tapes, they found that the Korean should have lost 0.2 points for several hesitations that the judges failed to penalize him for. US does not file a counter-protest.
4. Yesterday, the women's all-around silver medalist, Russian Svetlana Khorkina, announced that she was robbed of the gold by US-biased judges. No official protest filed, yet.
5. Today, the Bulgarians file a protest that one of their gymnasts was short-changed in the men's event finals.
My opinion? Bunch of frikin' crybabies. The rules are clear, and are just like baseball: protest before the next play/apparatus begins, or forever hold your peace. None of this "let's review all the tapes three days later and find anything that could possibly be rescored". It would be like the Red Sox filling a protest today, claiming that the fourth pitch to Gary Carter in Game 6 of the 1986 World Series should have been called a strike, and demanding they be awarded the championship. Shit happens, and it happens to everyone. The US men got screwed in the team all-around when the judges decided at the last moment that two of their routines would be worth several tenths less than they expected. The men changed their routines, and having never practiced them, screwed up - costing the US men the all-around gold. Too bad. Oh wait, but the judges are all US-biased, I forgot. That must explain why a US man HAS NEVER WON BEFORE, EVER. Stupid, stupid people. I totally enjoyed watching the events, too, but all this bickering really turns me off.
Sports based on judging will always have such controversies. While I didn't watch any gymnastics this olympics, what they do is very impressive to the untrained eye just like diving or figure skating or whatever. But I find it to be more like a visual exhibition than what I htink of as a sport since a lot of the scoring components are too obtuse for the common fan to bother with and at real speed the subtle differences are sometimes difficult to distinguish. I find them inferior to far more objective events like swimming or track and field et al where criterion for winning is simply finishing first or lifting the most weight or whatever the case may be.
I find them inferior to far more objective events like swimming or track and field et al where criterion for winning is simply finishing first or lifting the most weight or whatever the case may be.
I am disappointed in several sports where the judges made foul calls. Don't know how the U.S. won those Gold when the other country deserved it. It happeneded last Olympics game too.
Which events are those?
Obviously Hamm deserved the Gold in the all-around since the .1 that the Korean lost due to a starting error was less than the .2 which he should have had deducted for holding four positions instead of the maximum of three.
Olympic judging has always had some questionable moments including many that have gone against the US. 72 basketball was one of the most ridiculous travesties of officiating ever. Roy Jones Jr's loss in 88 was such a joke that they had to change the freaking scoring system in boxing. I can't think of anything in major professional US sports that compares to some of the out and out fixes and unabashed biases of international Olympic judging. It's a joke.
He's still holding a grudge against Apolo Ohno. There's obviously something seriously dysfunctional in the US-Korean relationship.
Speaking of judging craziness, how about the Alexi Nemov debacle tonight? Talk about heaping it on. He surely deserved a higher score than he initially got, but to let the crowd force a change in the judges' scoring? Hopefully that will be the last straw before major changes (what, I have no idea).
Speaking of judging craziness, how about the Alexi Nemov debacle tonight? Talk about heaping it on. He surely deserved a higher score than he initially got, but to let the crowd force a change in the judges' scoring? Hopefully that will be the last straw before major changes (what, I have no idea).
Obviously Hamm deserved the Gold in the all-around since the .1 that the Korean lost due to a starting error was less than the .2 which he should have had deducted for holding four positions instead of the maximum of three.
I think that the fact that Hamm clipped the judges table is reason enough not to win the Gold. How can you make a mistake like that and be called the "best in the world". You can't.
If anyone saw the high bar event, it is plain as day that the medals Hamm won were a sham.
Unfortunately Hamm will bear the brunt of this even though this is no fault of his.
Olympic judging has always had some questionable moments including many that have gone against the US. 72 basketball was one of the most ridiculous travesties of officiating ever. Roy Jones Jr's loss in 88 was such a joke that they had to change the freaking scoring system in boxing. I can't think of anything in major professional US sports that compares to some of the out and out fixes and unabashed biases of international Olympic judging. It's a joke.
In response to the boxing issue, I don't believe that it is much better today. The current system does not award boxers who are aggressive. It awards boxers with long arms that keep their distance from their opponents instead of those who want to 'take it to their opponent'. Although they are supposed to count body shots (above the waist), they rarely do because not all of the judges can see them as clearly as head shots. They should be taking away points from boxers who tie up their opponents whenever they get too close.
Agree that the boxing system is flawed but that's beside my point which was how horrendous and biased that particular event was. The dude even apologized to Jones for winning.
As for soccer, I can't say that I care for it very much but I'll watch it on occasion. Never MLS which is ass but I'll watch the Premiership or Champions League or World Cup. But far and away the most annoying thing is the amount of diving in soccer. Totally gotten out of hand. Now, we shouldn't discount the sport because of that, but we acknowledge in the interests of full disclosure that it has been usurped by pussies. I'd watch lesbo porn and not soccer if I wanted to see pussy diving.
As far as basketball is concerned, it would be very easy for america to dominate the thing entirely. But the team that was picked is a bunch of lazy streetballers plus Duncan and Iverson. The NBA has gone downhill, with many of the big-name technical players being international.
Honestly, the Uconn team could have probably beat Puerto Rico.
As far as the other sports I've seen, USA is doing fairly well. We always do pretty well in Track and Field, which I haven't seen yet.
This is a good point. I think we should take the national championship basketball team (in the respective year) to represent the US. I think this team with the exception of Duncan is a complete embarassment and its only purpose is to HOPEFULLY teach a couple of kids out there that you cant just be a talented 1 on 1 street baller and be a great player in the NBA. It requires the mastery of all disciplines including the rarely seen art of defense and something known as passing.
Comments
1. Paul Hamm wins first-ever men's all-around gold for the US, after falling on his vault, by finishing with two stupendous routines. Two Koreans, who were 1-2 going into the final event, turn in lackluster final performances and finish 2-3.
2. Two days later, the Koreans file a protest. After reviewing the tapes, they find that the #3 finisher should have gotten an extra 0.1 points on his second routine (before he was even in medal contention). Korea claims that judging is biased in favor of the US.
3. Several days later, the US announces that, having reviewed the same tapes, they found that the Korean should have lost 0.2 points for several hesitations that the judges failed to penalize him for. US does not file a counter-protest.
4. Yesterday, the women's all-around silver medalist, Russian Svetlana Khorkina, announced that she was robbed of the gold by US-biased judges. No official protest filed, yet.
5. Today, the Bulgarians file a protest that one of their gymnasts was short-changed in the men's event finals.
My opinion? Bunch of frikin' crybabies. The rules are clear, and are just like baseball: protest before the next play/apparatus begins, or forever hold your peace. None of this "let's review all the tapes three days later and find anything that could possibly be rescored". It would be like the Red Sox filling a protest today, claiming that the fourth pitch to Gary Carter in Game 6 of the 1986 World Series should have been called a strike, and demanding they be awarded the championship. Shit happens, and it happens to everyone. The US men got screwed in the team all-around when the judges decided at the last moment that two of their routines would be worth several tenths less than they expected. The men changed their routines, and having never practiced them, screwed up - costing the US men the all-around gold. Too bad. Oh wait, but the judges are all US-biased, I forgot. That must explain why a US man HAS NEVER WON BEFORE, EVER. Stupid, stupid people. I totally enjoyed watching the events, too, but all this bickering really turns me off.
Originally posted by ColanderOfDeath
I find them inferior to far more objective events like swimming or track and field et al where criterion for winning is simply finishing first or lifting the most weight or whatever the case may be.
Completely agree.
I am disappointed in several sports where the judges made foul calls. Don't know how the U.S. won those Gold when the other country deserved it. It happeneded last Olympics game too.
Which events are those?
Obviously Hamm deserved the Gold in the all-around since the .1 that the Korean lost due to a starting error was less than the .2 which he should have had deducted for holding four positions instead of the maximum of three.
Olympic judging has always had some questionable moments including many that have gone against the US. 72 basketball was one of the most ridiculous travesties of officiating ever. Roy Jones Jr's loss in 88 was such a joke that they had to change the freaking scoring system in boxing. I can't think of anything in major professional US sports that compares to some of the out and out fixes and unabashed biases of international Olympic judging. It's a joke.
Originally posted by ColanderOfDeath
Which events are those?
He's still holding a grudge against Apolo Ohno.
Speaking of judging craziness, how about the Alexi Nemov debacle tonight? Talk about heaping it on. He surely deserved a higher score than he initially got, but to let the crowd force a change in the judges' scoring? Hopefully that will be the last straw before major changes (what, I have no idea).
Originally posted by Towel
Speaking of judging craziness, how about the Alexi Nemov debacle tonight? Talk about heaping it on. He surely deserved a higher score than he initially got, but to let the crowd force a change in the judges' scoring? Hopefully that will be the last straw before major changes (what, I have no idea).
I wonder if the Koreans will protest that event.
Originally posted by ColanderOfDeath
Which events are those?
Obviously Hamm deserved the Gold in the all-around since the .1 that the Korean lost due to a starting error was less than the .2 which he should have had deducted for holding four positions instead of the maximum of three.
I think that the fact that Hamm clipped the judges table is reason enough not to win the Gold. How can you make a mistake like that and be called the "best in the world". You can't.
If anyone saw the high bar event, it is plain as day that the medals Hamm won were a sham.
Unfortunately Hamm will bear the brunt of this even though this is no fault of his.
Originally posted by ColanderOfDeath
Olympic judging has always had some questionable moments including many that have gone against the US. 72 basketball was one of the most ridiculous travesties of officiating ever. Roy Jones Jr's loss in 88 was such a joke that they had to change the freaking scoring system in boxing. I can't think of anything in major professional US sports that compares to some of the out and out fixes and unabashed biases of international Olympic judging. It's a joke.
In response to the boxing issue, I don't believe that it is much better today. The current system does not award boxers who are aggressive. It awards boxers with long arms that keep their distance from their opponents instead of those who want to 'take it to their opponent'. Although they are supposed to count body shots (above the waist), they rarely do because not all of the judges can see them as clearly as head shots. They should be taking away points from boxers who tie up their opponents whenever they get too close.
A Brazilian player tripped on the grass and fell over. They called a foul on the US. How the hell is that a sport?
As for soccer, I can't say that I care for it very much but I'll watch it on occasion. Never MLS which is ass but I'll watch the Premiership or Champions League or World Cup. But far and away the most annoying thing is the amount of diving in soccer. Totally gotten out of hand. Now, we shouldn't discount the sport because of that, but we acknowledge in the interests of full disclosure that it has been usurped by pussies. I'd watch lesbo porn and not soccer if I wanted to see pussy diving.
Originally posted by groverat
I watched the US beat Brazil in women's soccer today.
A Brazilian player tripped on the grass and fell over. They called a foul on the US. How the hell is that a sport?
Heh heh. It's nothing like Maradona's "Hand of God" play in 86.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
As far as basketball is concerned, it would be very easy for america to dominate the thing entirely. But the team that was picked is a bunch of lazy streetballers plus Duncan and Iverson. The NBA has gone downhill, with many of the big-name technical players being international.
Honestly, the Uconn team could have probably beat Puerto Rico.
As far as the other sports I've seen, USA is doing fairly well. We always do pretty well in Track and Field, which I haven't seen yet.
This is a good point. I think we should take the national championship basketball team (in the respective year) to represent the US. I think this team with the exception of Duncan is a complete embarassment and its only purpose is to HOPEFULLY teach a couple of kids out there that you cant just be a talented 1 on 1 street baller and be a great player in the NBA. It requires the mastery of all disciplines including the rarely seen art of defense and something known as passing.
the pistons sent a pretty large message to the NBA last year, i think team play and fundamentals will be returning.
streetballers (of whom iverson is king) are on the way out, foreign players are becoming more dominant.