Antares isn't just about '3 gig +', it's also about 'dual core'.
Can someone tell me more about Antares?? I keep hearing this "code name" but I'm not sure on the specs... is this a Mac OS Rumors thing? Or is this for real?
Even if Apple is NOT the first to put a dual core machine in a showroom near you during 2005, I certainly hope that they will not ignore a very important feature in the AMD design.
The information from AMD indicates that those who have previously purchased single core 90nm systems,
will be able to upgrade those processors to dual core
with compatable pins.
I also read an article from IBM indicating that they will offer AMD
opteron 64bit processors in their workstations.
And then there's this tidbit about SONY and IBM CELL workstations
Can someone tell me more about Antares?? I keep hearing this "code name" but I'm not sure on the specs... is this a Mac OS Rumors thing? Or is this for real?
Dual-core AMD Opteron™ processors for servers and workstations will launch in mid-2005 followed by dual-core processors for the client market in late 2005
Dual-core AMD Opteron™ processors for servers and workstations will launch in mid-2005 followed by dual-core processors for the client market in late 2005
So where is your problem?
The problem is that Apple is not telling us which way they will be going.
90 nm Dual Core or 65nm CELL
It would sure be nice to know before you blow your money on a current system,
only to kick yourself next spring when this stuff becomes available.
Right now it seem that the only safe option is to lease your equipment
The problem is that Apple is not telling us which way they will be going.
90 nm Dual Core or 65nm CELL
It would sure be nice to know before you blow your money on a current system,
only to kick yourself next spring when this stuff becomes available.
Right now it seem that the only safe option is to lease your equipment
and see what happens.
Obviously dual core is the next product. No one is talking about CELL technology for mainstream desktops. CELL tech looks to be best utilized in small devices that run custom software. You're not going to see CELL show up in a Mac or PC anytime soon. Developers have no desire to rewrite their applications.
The 3d browsing would be for us. Anything 3d will be for "us"... the only other thing that graphics cards will be used for when it comes to serious computing is rendering farms.... 3d and video...
The punchline is that OS X is already using OpenGL to draw its 2D GUI, while Sun is using 2D affine transforms to mimic 3D.
As long as the physical interface to the computer is 2D (or 1D, in the case of a keyboard) the operating system interface will be 2D. It might "look" 3D, but you can fake that with 2D technology rather easily.
I'm a little confused by your last "sentence:" As you yourself point out upthread, GPUs aren't used for rendering, only previewing.
Quote:
CPU needs to be focused on more than it is now... but GPU definitely needs some damn growth... what we have now isn't acceptable... maybe we have the hardware... maybe its the software that needs work... daily it becomes more apparent that its pointing to software...
Certainly. The fact that gets lost in the whole myth that "GPUs move so fast" is that during the short time when they did, a few years ago, they left software and standards support (including the OpenGL ARB) in the dust, with the result that a bare fraction of their GPUs' capabilities were ever used. Software is still playing catch-up, and the OpenGL ARB just now caught up. The best thing that could happen on the GPU front right now is stability, and the best kind of progress is the deliberate kind. Both ATI and NVIDIA are now on 2-year R&D cycles, which definitely helps.
Certainly, it doesn't seem like Max or Lightwave really utilize the current graphic cards or even the last gen' cards. Both apps seem to be a bit creaky when compared to what Modo (Luxology.com) is offering.
I agree, a period of stability might be nice while software explores what these cards can do eg programmability etc. The bandwidth on PCI-Express is incredible. Graphics should really begin to motor in the next fear years. But will Adobe dare to offer 'Core Image' Photoshop for Mac while a PC version languishes..?
There should be real-time previews and rendering going on...with graphics cards used as co-processors etc.
I think the GPU arena is a very exciting one.
And...intriguing stuff on the thinksecret messageboards...
Obviously dual core is the next product. No one is talking about CELL technology for mainstream desktops. CELL tech looks to be best utilized in small devices that run custom software. You're not going to see CELL show up in a Mac or PC anytime soon. Developers have no desire to rewrite their applications.
IBM was talking about CELL for servers. This is a very scalable design and I'd say has probably taken ideas from the MCMs used in the POWER series.
I think it's time for a MWSF PowerMac show. Someone pointed out a while back that the PowerMac cycle was usually about 6 months so a January update would be right on time.
I'm worried about it too. But I'm more or less worried of the state of the PowerMacs future in general. These graphic card, and processor debacles are taking their toll on users, and prospective buyers. I have to question if the PowerMac will ever come out of it.
I'm worried about it too. But I'm more or less worried of the state of the PowerMacs future in general. These graphic card, and processor debacles are taking their toll on users, and prospective buyers. I have to question if the PowerMac will ever come out of it.
Those who are worrying(I'm not talking to anyone in particular) should speak to those of us in the "thick" of things back in 97-99 when Apple was "truly" struggling.
Note the iMac G5 reviews and how little the consumer really cares about Doom III and fast GPUs. AI is full of geeks and geeks have a warped view of what consumers want. I'm fankly bored out my skull right now. PCI Express,SATA ...big whoop really. I could build a PC in a few hrs but there's really nothing compelling right now on Mac or PC that makes me want to rush to the store.
Since my Macs are ancient that's my next upgrade but X86 land isn't doing so hot. The heady megahertz wars are over and PCI Express and SATA don't give me anything truly substantial over what I had before. That can really only mean one thing. It's time to make software King. Apple better have a nice lineup of software revisions next year because hardwarewise there's not much going on in computerland.
I'm worried about it too. But I'm more or less worried of the state of the PowerMacs future in general. These graphic card, and processor debacles are taking their toll on users, and prospective buyers. I have to question if the PowerMac will ever come out of it.
Yeah, it's not like the good old days of the G4... uh... wait...
That's my fear. That it wasn't just the G4 it's the PPC that has become a nightmare. The graphics stuff isn't helping matters much either.
Yes perhaps someone call tell nvidia to actually start shipping 6800 chips in quantity. If today's PPC chips are nightmares then I can't even imagine what a dream would be. Well actually I guess I could. If IBM gets the dual core stuff out without a hitch and delivers the POWER5 derivative on 65nm fab then I'm a happy camper. Of course we're talking over a stretch of 24 months here.
I don't really care about megahertz as much as just smoothing out the internals of the 9xx processor. Massage the altivec, tweak the Powertune more and get to fabbing them in bunches and the Powermac is right in the thick of things. The graphics cards will come soon enough and Apple is putting a lot of work into OpenGL with OSX updates.
I'm still wondering when the supply of 2.5Ghz chips will improve. I'm hoping by Nov the wait list is down to under a week til ship. That way it might not be impossible for Apple to tweak the high end to 2.7 or 2.8Ghz and bump the lower and midrange units to 2.2 and 2.5Ghz.
I think PCI Express is there on the next lineup and perhaps updated SATA and FW ports. Then late summer can bring the dual cores and hopefully a reduction in the lowend Powermac and Xserve lines. I think that would boost sales for Xmas 2005.
Comments
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
Antares isn't just about '3 gig +', it's also about 'dual core'.
Can someone tell me more about Antares?? I keep hearing this "code name" but I'm not sure on the specs... is this a Mac OS Rumors thing? Or is this for real?
Originally posted by emig647
dual 3.0+ GHZ w/ 1mb l2 CACHE (anything lower won't be acceptable by jobs unless the update cycle is in jan).
[/B]
I wonder how expensive the liquid nitrogen cooling system is going to be?
Originally posted by Gamblor
I wonder how expensive the liquid nitrogen cooling system is going to be?
Could you imagine having a computer like that on your desk?
/http://www.amd.com/us-en/0,,3715_11787,00.html?redir=CPDC03
Even if Apple is NOT the first to put a dual core machine in a showroom near you during 2005, I certainly hope that they will not ignore a very important feature in the AMD design.
The information from AMD indicates that those who have previously purchased single core 90nm systems,
will be able to upgrade those processors to dual core
with compatable pins.
I also read an article from IBM indicating that they will offer AMD
opteron 64bit processors in their workstations.
And then there's this tidbit about SONY and IBM CELL workstations
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content...e=dev&aid=3451
It looks like Apple had better get busy!
Originally posted by emig647
Can someone tell me more about Antares?? I keep hearing this "code name" but I'm not sure on the specs... is this a Mac OS Rumors thing? Or is this for real?
For the time being, it is a Think Secret thing.
Originally posted by FallenFromTheTree
It looks like Apple had better get busy!
Wrong address - tell that IBM!
Dual-core AMD Opteron™ processors for servers and workstations will launch in mid-2005 followed by dual-core processors for the client market in late 2005
So where is your problem?
Originally posted by smalM
Wrong address - tell that IBM!
Dual-core AMD Opteron™ processors for servers and workstations will launch in mid-2005 followed by dual-core processors for the client market in late 2005
So where is your problem?
The problem is that Apple is not telling us which way they will be going.
90 nm Dual Core or 65nm CELL
It would sure be nice to know before you blow your money on a current system,
only to kick yourself next spring when this stuff becomes available.
Right now it seem that the only safe option is to lease your equipment
and see what happens.
Originally posted by FallenFromTheTree
The problem is that Apple is not telling us which way they will be going.
90 nm Dual Core or 65nm CELL
It would sure be nice to know before you blow your money on a current system,
only to kick yourself next spring when this stuff becomes available.
Right now it seem that the only safe option is to lease your equipment
and see what happens.
Obviously dual core is the next product. No one is talking about CELL technology for mainstream desktops. CELL tech looks to be best utilized in small devices that run custom software. You're not going to see CELL show up in a Mac or PC anytime soon. Developers have no desire to rewrite their applications.
Originally posted by emig647
The 3d browsing would be for us. Anything 3d will be for "us"... the only other thing that graphics cards will be used for when it comes to serious computing is rendering farms.... 3d and video...
The punchline is that OS X is already using OpenGL to draw its 2D GUI, while Sun is using 2D affine transforms to mimic 3D.
As long as the physical interface to the computer is 2D (or 1D, in the case of a keyboard) the operating system interface will be 2D. It might "look" 3D, but you can fake that with 2D technology rather easily.
I'm a little confused by your last "sentence:" As you yourself point out upthread, GPUs aren't used for rendering, only previewing.
CPU needs to be focused on more than it is now... but GPU definitely needs some damn growth... what we have now isn't acceptable... maybe we have the hardware... maybe its the software that needs work... daily it becomes more apparent that its pointing to software...
Certainly. The fact that gets lost in the whole myth that "GPUs move so fast" is that during the short time when they did, a few years ago, they left software and standards support (including the OpenGL ARB) in the dust, with the result that a bare fraction of their GPUs' capabilities were ever used. Software is still playing catch-up, and the OpenGL ARB just now caught up. The best thing that could happen on the GPU front right now is stability, and the best kind of progress is the deliberate kind. Both ATI and NVIDIA are now on 2-year R&D cycles, which definitely helps.
I agree, a period of stability might be nice while software explores what these cards can do eg programmability etc. The bandwidth on PCI-Express is incredible. Graphics should really begin to motor in the next fear years. But will Adobe dare to offer 'Core Image' Photoshop for Mac while a PC version languishes..?
There should be real-time previews and rendering going on...with graphics cards used as co-processors etc.
I think the GPU arena is a very exciting one.
And...intriguing stuff on the thinksecret messageboards...
A certain Morpheus talks of a 6-6-6.
Hmmm.
Borg. Embedded. Power 6?
I hope it means dirty-bitch PowerMacs...
Lemon Bon Bon
Originally posted by hmurchison
Obviously dual core is the next product. No one is talking about CELL technology for mainstream desktops. CELL tech looks to be best utilized in small devices that run custom software. You're not going to see CELL show up in a Mac or PC anytime soon. Developers have no desire to rewrite their applications.
IBM was talking about CELL for servers. This is a very scalable design and I'd say has probably taken ideas from the MCMs used in the POWER series.
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
And...intriguing stuff on the thinksecret messageboards...
A certain Morpheus talks of a 6-6-6.
Hmmm.
Borg. Embedded. Power 6?
I hope it means dirty-bitch PowerMacs...
Lemon Bon Bon
Indeed, bring on them dirty-bitch machines!
powermacs show up. Apple can't seem to get their 2.5ghz macs out the
door. The Applestore has a 3-5 week wait for them!
Originally posted by onlooker
I'm worried about it too. But I'm more or less worried of the state of the PowerMacs future in general. These graphic card, and processor debacles are taking their toll on users, and prospective buyers. I have to question if the PowerMac will ever come out of it.
Those who are worrying(I'm not talking to anyone in particular) should speak to those of us in the "thick" of things back in 97-99 when Apple was "truly" struggling.
Note the iMac G5 reviews and how little the consumer really cares about Doom III and fast GPUs. AI is full of geeks and geeks have a warped view of what consumers want. I'm fankly bored out my skull right now. PCI Express,SATA ...big whoop really. I could build a PC in a few hrs but there's really nothing compelling right now on Mac or PC that makes me want to rush to the store.
Since my Macs are ancient that's my next upgrade but X86 land isn't doing so hot. The heady megahertz wars are over and PCI Express and SATA don't give me anything truly substantial over what I had before. That can really only mean one thing. It's time to make software King. Apple better have a nice lineup of software revisions next year because hardwarewise there's not much going on in computerland.
Originally posted by onlooker
I'm worried about it too. But I'm more or less worried of the state of the PowerMacs future in general. These graphic card, and processor debacles are taking their toll on users, and prospective buyers. I have to question if the PowerMac will ever come out of it.
Yeah, it's not like the good old days of the G4... uh... wait...
They'll come through.
Originally posted by onlooker
That's my fear. That it wasn't just the G4 it's the PPC that has become a nightmare. The graphics stuff isn't helping matters much either.
Yes perhaps someone call tell nvidia to actually start shipping 6800 chips in quantity. If today's PPC chips are nightmares then I can't even imagine what a dream would be. Well actually I guess I could. If IBM gets the dual core stuff out without a hitch and delivers the POWER5 derivative on 65nm fab then I'm a happy camper. Of course we're talking over a stretch of 24 months here.
I don't really care about megahertz as much as just smoothing out the internals of the 9xx processor. Massage the altivec, tweak the Powertune more and get to fabbing them in bunches and the Powermac is right in the thick of things. The graphics cards will come soon enough and Apple is putting a lot of work into OpenGL with OSX updates.
I'm still wondering when the supply of 2.5Ghz chips will improve. I'm hoping by Nov the wait list is down to under a week til ship. That way it might not be impossible for Apple to tweak the high end to 2.7 or 2.8Ghz and bump the lower and midrange units to 2.2 and 2.5Ghz.
I think PCI Express is there on the next lineup and perhaps updated SATA and FW ports. Then late summer can bring the dual cores and hopefully a reduction in the lowend Powermac and Xserve lines. I think that would boost sales for Xmas 2005.