Pre-Blackout Old-Timers

in General Discussion edited January 2014
For those who might be interested, I have been reading off and on for pretty much this whole summer a thick collection ofwhat I think are threads which have been preserved and came from this site before what I am told was a "black-out" which obliterated all previous posts before Nov 2001.

Very interesting stuff!!! Before I started my job here this summer, I had pretty much avoided everything Apple (or Mac) because I had a certain attitude about it.

Was even a mod on a little board that was only PC. But I never ran across a better example of the high art of community boardship than what can be read in those pages.

Truly amazing in certain ways.

No way I've read through all those stacks yet but, having amused myself at length many long nights this summer watching a very unique unfolding of characters and dialogue in this site's pre-blackout days, I can say that you had one helluva site at one time.

Not that its not just as good now - I've just never seen anything like this before. In fact, I'm a double-major, and I might be interested in doing a research paper on these records.

I won't say too much about my theme because I want it for myself, but I feel it is safe to say that there are remarkable characteristics inherent in this site's pre-blackout days as board ethics and social protocol were being worked out by the different groups participating in different site developments.

I lurked here for a while and while I am sure it is just as good if not better in its own way now, let's just say that the same type of "spark" that I find so unique is not surprisingly absent now.

Needless to say, there are some very interesting characteristics about this Apple site that are peculiar to Apple people because almost everything, even the tenor among obvious adversaries which was incredibly uniform and thought-out.

I'd like to know if there are any old-timers around if they could confirm what I am implying about the difference between then and what you commonly see now on the good boards.

For the record, and I'm sure I'm oversimplifying things, there seemed to be three distinct camps - all pretty sophisticated in their own right.

Following the suggestion of a nice and helpful present boardmember, I did a search on the username (theblackhat) I have to use and found a pretty interesting post which my immediate previous mentor (the true blackhat) apparently made when he was first a student here.

It is called Bill Gates Annual Christmas Card where he wishes holiday cheers to a bunch of AppleInsider boardmembers and he names them.

I wondered why theblackhat would post something that had Bill Gates name on it so I emailed him and just got an answer back.

He was new then (like I am now) and didn't know the ropes but one of the guys from the large grant job they were running back then had posted under the name of Bill Gates (for whatever reason) and has asked theblackhat to continue the annual Christmas card tradition to everyone even though he was going on to bigger and better things and wouldn't be doing it himself.

Well, theblackhat said he went to all the trouble to type all these guys names to wish them Merry Christmas for this Bill Gates guy, and just a handful of members even bothered to look at it, and only a couple even bothered to reply.

Naturally he said to heck with that, and he couldn't see what all the care was about the Appleinsider site from all these guys who were graduating, so he said to heck with that.

I'm going to email post him back and tell him I figured it out - this response was post-blackout!

Apparently, something profoundly significant happened between the pre and post blackout eras on this board, because the dynamic exchanges that occurred in the 98-2001 records that I have indicate high levels of discourse and interaction that occurred regularly before the nov 2001 blackout.

Anyway, I'd also like to know if the old-timers see it generally like I seem to have put it together - that there were three distinct camps which made up the nucleus of the Appleinsider (AI) board.

First, there was the "good guys" - defenders of the faith who, like a priest class, regularly held the high road for Apple and its environs.

In this group there was Mark, robo, seb, NormS, Pippen, 68k, The Installer, onlooker, pscates, CDon8100, Fran441, moogs, solishu, Dajjal, CrazyMac, Think Secret, EriMac, Michaelm8000, THT, pfflam, murbot, Eugene, Infinite Jester, hmurchison, MajorMatt, jholman, Duke Nukem, beefy-guy, Belle, MacAddict, MacGregor, Scottpar, Leonis, sentry65, matsu, and Mac'o' the Isles, among other notables.

Then there was a counter (PC) group composed of the likes of PeterB, Lefty Right, PCUser, Lil Billy, Simple Truth, IMKoRnNuts, Flamethrowing Troller, Lurch, Kormac 76, little cuss, Rudedog, MaDTrOLL, Naim, and similar posters.

Finally, there was the "reactionary proletariat" quick to abrade the priest class if opportunity presented itself but even quicker to "high-low" the counter group, shooting from the hip and ask questions later.

Some Of these I'm sure worked here right in this lab at one time, but this latter group struck me as being a little older than most and therefore naturally a little further along the education track than most (notice I'n NOT saying smarter!).

This group was comprised of the guys who are heavily documented in the "stacks" I've read - namely, BillGates, Kimkapsol, MacMonkey, Groverat, code red, Junkyard Dawg, Darwin's Ape, & Brothers Karamatzov (these I believe were the Russian twins who were students here before the turn).

I see some of these guys are still here (or maybe like theblackhat) its now someone else just using the name. I notice that Bill Gates in his Christmas card wished merry christmas to another Bill Gates who had apparently ripped his name off by re-registering it first after the nov 2001 black-out.

Anyhoo, here's some names I'd appreciate some insider info on from the old-timers and the way they seemed to them at the time on the part any poster may have played at those early times.



  • Reply 1 of 163
    Many of those still post in these boards. Take a look at the other forums...
  • Reply 2 of 163
    alcimedesalcimedes Posts: 5,486member
  • Reply 3 of 163
    kennethkenneth Posts: 832member
    Brought back some good ol' memories.
  • Reply 4 of 163
    haraldharald Posts: 2,152member

    Originally posted by tonton

    Welcome back, 68k!!!!

    Yeah, that was fun.

    I'd be particularly interested in reading any of the political posts by Naim and the posts about the Arabic chats on AI Chat. In early 2001 IIRC, Naim said something about "the time has come for a significant event to teach America a lesson" or something in that vein. Then he disappeared. In Summer of 2001 sudden Arabic chatter appeared on the Java AI chat board. I really wish we had some way of knowing what that was all about, considering events that took place so shortly thereafter.

    Don't luagh!

    I remember this very clearly.
  • Reply 5 of 163
    A large number of the so called defenders of the faith have moved on to another forum after a recent schism here.
  • Reply 6 of 163
    splinemodelsplinemodel Posts: 7,311member
    I started posting here in the summer between my junior and senior years in high school (June 1999). That was back when the colors were quite a bit different.

    5 years later and I'm still making dumb posts when I should be working instead. Anyway, a good deal of the members you mentioned are still here, some have changed names, and a bunch of 'em are on something of a hiatus induced by a paradigm shift from a few months ago. But they'll be back.
  • Reply 7 of 163
    BillGates = code red and about 20 other names.

    Kormac worked for a bank in Korea that was funding some of Apple's big suppliers. People thought he was fake but he was connected actually, at least the real version was.

    KimKapSol was a long running parody of a troll posted by someone pretending to be a factory working building plastics for Apple machines. "I'm working on it right now" was the signature line. At one point there was a whole imaginary family built up around him but I believe that material was deleted.

    EriMac = Woz's Apprentice = SpicyChickenManifesto = ColanderOfDeath

    Btw, if you really do know the old BillGates, who knows who is who with all the chicanery that goes on here, tell him I said hello.
  • Reply 8 of 163
    Shit, I've created a monster.

    This is my fault. \ (That'll be one of the very few times you'll hear me utter those four words, so make the most of it.)

    theblackhat I still haven't decided whether you're for real or not. There's something a bit weird about all this. I'm variously considering that you could be who you say you are, someone known but incognito, a famous/infamous long lost member seeking to make a grand re-entrance, or a troll without a sense of purpose.

    This thread sums up AI admirably. Intrigue. Lots of it. Place thrives on it. Preferably Apple intrigue but if the Fruit Co. won't oblige, AI rolls it's own. Intrigue involving both Apple and AI is the Holy Grail eg. the workerbee affair. But


    Originally posted by tonton

    I'd be particularly interested in reading any of the political posts by Naim and the posts about the Arabic chats on AI Chat. In early 2001 IIRC, Naim said something about "the time has come for a significant event to teach America a lesson" or something in that vein. Then he disappeared. In Summer of 2001 sudden Arabic chatter appeared on the Java AI chat board. I really wish we had some way of knowing what that was all about, considering events that took place so shortly thereafter.

    I'm sure you'll agree an AQ member and 9/11 suspect posting at AI reveals a forum that doesn't do intrigue by halves. Note how the use of prophecy, sudden, unexplained disappearances and Arabic chatter (just like real spies listen to!), heighten the suspense.


    Originally posted by alcimedes

    Unruly behaviour. What happens when there's an intrigue drought.


    Originally posted by Kenneth

    Brought back some good ol' memories.

    Pathos. Manifests when members reflect on great intrigues of the past.


    Originally posted by hardeeharharsky and hutch

    A large number of the so called defenders of the faith have moved on to another forum after a recent schism here.

    You can never have enough intrigue. And bastard offspring have been a source of intrigue in history and literature for centuries so why not at AI? Note how the religious terminology adds a mystical element to the intrigue in this post.

    This one's an interesting one. Unremarkable comments give the reader a sense of false security before the intrigue lurking beneath the surface is revealed. Start with a serving of personal details, mix in some useless information, add a dollop of self-deprecating humor and then


    Originally posted by Splinemodel

    Anyway, a good deal of the members you mentioned are still here, some have changed names, and a bunch of 'em are on something of a hiatus induced by a paradigm shift from a few months ago. But they'll be back.

    smother in intrigue and serve. Schisms for entree; paradigm shifts for main course and more prophecy (this time with Arnie flavoring) for dessert.

    Anyhow, continuing to give you the benefit of the doubt by assuming there's no intrigue here......One of the Grand Poobahs, should arrange for the site to get a copy of those threads. Internet bulletin boards will be to historians of the future what letters were to historians of the past. (Shut up alcimedes I can hear you snickering from here.) AI should provide future researchers from at least half a dozen different academic disciplines with enough material for several years worth of dissertations and journal articles I imagine.

    AI is like a soap opera set at an Apple Fan Club Convention where the attendees include Apple's Rent-A-Crowd aka The Creative Types, members of Mensa, an Asperger's Syndrome Support Group, daytrippers from the local psych hospital, a motley crew of various n'er-do-wells, and a handful of Idiot Savants. I'm surprised it hasn't been tapped as a research project already. I've got a plan to use the most recent episode in the AI saga to make a shitload of money. It's extremely improbable this plan will work but I'm keeping it dark in the unlikely event I pull it off.
  • Reply 9 of 163
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    Reactionary proletariat checking in!

    Speaking truth to power since 1998!
  • Reply 10 of 163
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member

    Originally posted by tonton

    It was. And it didn't make the members very happy when 68k finally exposed himself (68k), herself (Miss Tron) and itself (MaDToOL).

    That was about as surprising as the end of 101 Dalmations.
  • Reply 11 of 163
    splinemodelsplinemodel Posts: 7,311member
    68k did write very well, but he certainly didn't know much about girls. Then again, neither do I, but I'm not the one making fake characters for internet message boards. It took about 3 posts until everyone knew that Miss Tron was 68k. . . and then some dude found all the pictures on 68k's webspace, and it was all over.
  • Reply 12 of 163
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    Anyone still have that picture of MadTool on "Da Truth Train"? Funny stuff.
  • Reply 13 of 163
    Thank you for the many replies both on and off these boards. It has been very helpful and I hope I've returned the favor for those who asked.

    To Monkeyastronaut: "Many ... forums . . ."

    Yeah, your right. I see that now.

    To tonton: "Welcome back, ... thereafter."

    Do you have any more information on that thread you want to see - closer date, topic, etc? Or who started it? What room was it in?

    To hardeeharhar: "A large ... here."

    If its not too difficult, could you please reference the threads about this matter so I could know where they went?

    To ColanderofDeath: "Bill ... hello."

    Sorry. Don't know the TA that posted under Bill Gates. But I do know theblackhat and I believe he must know whether Bill Gates was code red or not.

    If not, maybe you could e-mail me and just tell me or if you don't want to say his name, just give me the second letters of his first and last name, I could look up his handwriting and tell if it looks like the annotes on the code red posts. You got me curious.

    Crazychester: "Sh ... off".

    OK. Whatever. Over my head - but I got a question for you. You seem to be an old-timer yourself. If so, I'd appreciate talking more to you. And if I mis-cast you in the wrong category or left you off and that made you mad - please forgive me. Not my intention at all. Which group do you see yourself in.

    Groverat: "Reactionary ... 1998!"

    Wow! If this is the same Groverat, it is a real pleasure to get to talk to you. I don't know who you are but I think you must have been one of my predecessors where I now work and study. I am thoroughly jazzed by the whole interplay thing you guys used to do here. Amazing, truly amazing. And the records - I was impressed!! I'm sure you are a face on one of these walls and if I have no right to pry, that's perfectly cool - it is just a real pleasure to be sitting at the same benches that you and the other guys have formerly occupied. I tried to get ahold of you a while back on another board (AppleNova) but I guess I'm not supposed to mention that. Whatever. Gee - I'm sure making a bunch of rookie errors here so forgive please. Anyhoo, not to mention any names, but just to identify you as a former TA here, please tell me what's the "item" the old man has glued to the top of his office door (just general - no specifics please)?

    Anyway, Groverat, you are a fabulous poster in my estimation and a definite old-timer I'm sure! If you don't mind I'd like to think about it and be able to ask more intelligent questions later after I get through with this gushing.

    I'm going to feel like such a fool if you're not who I think you are, but part of your username is very similar to "you know what" so I think you were a part of the "B" Grant team.

    btw, that's all we hear now, how great a job you guys did and how you are sorely missed - like were chopped liver. = )

    Thanks for all your input.
  • Reply 14 of 163
    I wish i knew what all you guys are talking about, sounds interesting. Alas the newb shall suffer a life of ignorance.
  • Reply 15 of 163
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    Or you can waste ooops I mean spend your time reading a bunch of old posts.
  • Reply 16 of 163
    yea but they don't go pre blackout\
  • Reply 17 of 163
    to Scott: "Or ... posts."

    lol. yeah, your right. gotta get a life. But pretty much resigned myself that the next few years aren't going to be fun.

    And as for those old posts, normally anyone would have to agree with you - I know it sounds totally boring but these particular posts are absolutely fabulous reading because of the quality of steel sharpening steel.

    You just need to read them to understand. They are true gems. I believe I'm going to write a paper on this but my Soc Prof said I would have to document the sources (all I have are aliases and the names of my former superiors (about 8 guys and 1 gal who I'm sure posted regularly on this site in pre-blackout days) and have permission to use them (even if it looks like we have the only copies left - weird huh?!)

    Gotta go - later!
  • Reply 18 of 163

    you have me thoroughly intrigued... what is it that this lab does that you have found yourself in?

    oh, and the schism information is most thoroughly covered in the Viva la... forum over at apple(exploded star)...

    To cc: wow, i wasn't even trying to tie the defenders of the faith to schism... the tricks the overwrought brain will play...
  • Reply 19 of 163
    O by the way i know about boring lab-ness. I interned at a university lab this summer (thats what us geeky high schoolers do) and I spent alot of time on the web. It got me back into posting at AI (I had stopped for a while), i discovered a motorsports forum. and this

    site for you science geeks out there (one mans element collection and exploits.) as well as engadget (a tech/rumor blog)and cockeyed (laugh out loud funny stuff) (all of these sits are massive)and a number of other time killing sites. too bad i didn't find any cool AI binders.
  • Reply 20 of 163
    alcimedesalcimedes Posts: 5,486member
    well, i will say this thread motivated me to look for some of the good pre blackout threads.

    i was able to find the cookiesheet thread, sans images. so something worthwhile came out of it. CC, this thread (if you remember it) would be one of the few that would qualify as historian worthy.
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