Is Keynote dead?

Posted:
in Mac Software edited January 2014
Something tells me that the lack of update for Keynote (yet again) means the application is now dead, like AppleWorks 6. Am I being cynical or is it likely that Microsoft had something to do with it? Apple needs Office for switchers, did M$ tell them to stop making Keynote and AppleWorks as bribery? Apple is being very positive about M$ Office, going as far as calling iLife, Office outside the office!



Also is it likely (I think it is) that Apple is developing it's own suite if and when it's needed? Does anyone have any insider knowledge? What do you think?
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 25
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,312member
    Title sucks. Why are you asking for more information when you've made such a strong statement in your post. Keynote may or may not be dead. No one knows for sure.



    Microsoft surely has to be influencing Apple's decision to develop a suite but Apple will have to go down that road. Xserves have mainly been selling in large numbers for clustering. Looks good in a press release but it doesn't generate future licensing options.



    iCal is another program where its state is uknown. I find this interesting because both Keynote 2 and iCal 2 would sem to figure into any future Apple Suite plans. We can hope right?
  • Reply 2 of 25
    maccrazymaccrazy Posts: 2,657member
    I wanted to provoke a reaction, hence the title. I really don't know if what I'm saying is stupid or not!



    I've never seen iCal as competition with entourage, but if you link it to mail then it makes sense, and Apple could start charging for it as a iWork suite, like they did with iLife. I want to say ditch Office but it's so important both for the switchers and the Mac community, Office jobs require skills in Office! I think Apple are in a difficult position.
  • Reply 3 of 25
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,312member
    nah what you're saying isn't stupid. Everyone remotely interested in Keynote is curious about what's going on. I got hope when Apple had the Keynote Design contest. I doubt companies of abandoned products will have a contest over a product they have no intention of revising.



    Yes Apple is in a very difficult position. Microsoft likely has threatened Apple with the death of Mac Office. How many "babies" does Apple have to knife to propitiate the MS Gods?



    I'd recommend that Apple ship a Suite with very rudimentary MS Office support, as a way to gauge just how many Mac users are interested in a suite from Apple that don't need stellar MSO importing.





    iCal- if it's not dead it's going to have A LOT more features. Groupware is based on strong calendaring. Apple has done much work on Carbon and Cocoa Text APIs. PDF handling is constantly being worked on. An Apple Suite would be a very handsome application but powerful as well. Add in Quicktime support and now your Suite handles just about everything you can throw at it.



    I don't advocate sending MSO packing. But I realize that Apple developing a suite makes it easier to develop a business ecosystem that is lively. Think about all the applications that piggyback on Word Processors. Endnote, Dictation programs et cetera. An Apple Suite would be open and extensible, just what we need.



    The Apple Expo in Paris gave us even more clues the the further integration of applications. Photos received in mail now can automatically be imported into iPhoto. Apple is slowly leveraging all the tools they have at their disposal, tying them together in an appeasing manner. I cannot see where they would sleep on Keynote as it offers so much opportunity. Did you know that people have already found out how to use Motion to add moving elements to Keynote? I believe the Keynote of today already understands the .mot format. Now imagine Keynote 2 with Core Image/Video support and now you're talking about some very cool presentations.



    It's time for Apple to take off the MS training wheels now.
  • Reply 4 of 25
    I'm saddened by the passing of yet another chance for an AppleWorks update. I really do feel that Apple has much to offer and yet it never seems to come to pass. Maybe with Tiger, I still have 2 or 3 photons of hope left in me.
  • Reply 5 of 25
    toweltowel Posts: 1,479member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    How many "babies" does Apple have to knife to propitiate the MS Gods?



    Nice word use.
  • Reply 6 of 25
    I think iCal is really close in its current state. We used it for our group calendaring needs before we were forced to go back to PCs. Only thing that is missing is a free/busy service. Otherwise, I much prefered it to Entourage or now Outlook/Exchange.



    I'm not sure I agree with the notion that Apple needs MS Office or that MS would abandon the Apple platform if Apple comes out with a suite of its own. They might have an agreement to that effect, but I don't see the inevitability of it all.



    Linux has done fairly well on the desktop without MS office. I am wondering how many Mac users would abandon the platform if they could not get Office. I would agree that it stiffles switching, but there is not much of that going on right now anyway.



    My company abandoned Mac primarily because we could not do VoIP. Apple could really get moving in the SMB market if it would create a SIP client/server application that interoperated with the many services available from the likes of Level(3), Qwest, ATT, NGT, Covad, etc. Then, create links from the voice application to an Office-like suite.



    Sure, you are going to needs document interoperability for .doc and .xls. This does not seem to hard to accomplish as TextEdit can already do the former.



    So, to sum it all up... update mail, iCal, Address book, Keynote. Add a word processor and spreadsheet (maybe just beef up Appleworks for this). Then the magic. Apple iTalk (or whatever) - SIP-based client app that ties to mail, calendar and address book. Create a SIP server app that interoperates with the major carriers and maybe form a partnership for a firewire/USB2 Apple handset.



    Unfortunately, Apple has convinced itself that it cannot compete against MS in anything but select niche markets. So, none of this is likely to happen.
  • Reply 7 of 25
    But there must be developers out there who are willing to do all this - isn't this what OpenSource is all about? If you can't find an app to do what you want, you write it yourself (or someone out there will).



    I agree that Linux is doing well without any Microsoft involvement. Apple shouldn't have to rely on Microsoft for anything. If VMware got its act together, it could offer its Workstation product for Mac, too. That's Virtual PC out of the road. Apple should get Appleworks up to speed and that's MS Office out of the road.



    I have so many programming ideas that I'm abandoning my MCSE/Cisco background and switching to Apple so I can have a go at Cocoa development. I hope it's not going to all be for nothing.
  • Reply 8 of 25
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,312member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Towel

    Nice word use.



    Liked that eh? Are you a future wordsmith yourself?





    Quote:

    So, to sum it all up... update mail, iCal, Address book, Keynote. Add a word processor and spreadsheet (maybe just beef up Appleworks for this). Then the magic. Apple iTalk (or whatever) - SIP-based client app that ties to mail, calendar and address book. Create a SIP server app that interoperates with the major carriers and maybe form a partnership for a firewire/USB2 Apple handset.



    Unfortunately, Apple has convinced itself that it cannot compete against MS in anything but select niche markets. So, none of this is likely to happen.



    Man, have you summed it up so succinctly. Apple could be leading the charge into a new era by incorporating support for "disruptive"(I love that descripton) technologies. 2005 is it. If Apple doesn't bring the "funk" for Tiger and other apps then I guess I'll have to settle for Apple being the Bose of computers (ouch)



    Quote:

    I have so many programming ideas that I'm abandoning my MCSE/Cisco background and switching to Apple so I can have a go at Cocoa development. I hope it's not going to all be for nothing.



    hear hear. I hope Apple doesn't make those of us looking to center our programming efforts around OSX look like fools. Even with Mac Office the Mac penetration in the biz sector is atomic. It's about time to give MS the bird and get to hustling for the new businesses out there.
  • Reply 9 of 25
    buonrottobuonrotto Posts: 6,368member
    The title should probably read:



    Keynote is dead!

    Long live Keynote!







    I'm willing to wait for Tiger to see if they have any plans for Keynote, i.e., whether Apple incorporates Core** technology.
  • Reply 10 of 25
    For the record, I don't think keynote is near death at all. I think the new features in Tiger make an update to Keynote a no brainer. It still is the best presentation software on the Mac IMHO. Heard some PC folks at work discussing putting a Quicktime video in a Powerpoint presentation. They were having lots of trouble (I don't know why that would be so hard?). All I can say is it just works on a Mac!



    It's just the long silence regarding Appleworks that is getting unnerving.
  • Reply 11 of 25
    hobbeshobbes Posts: 1,252member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Carson O'Genic

    It's just the long silence regarding Appleworks that is getting unnerving.



    [whisper]If some lo-cal version of an Apple Office suite or (alternately) a revamped AppleWorks X isn't released come this MWSF '05, I'll eat my hat. [/whisper]
  • Reply 12 of 25
    maccrazymaccrazy Posts: 2,657member
    I've spoken to a lot of people who would be unhappy if M$ left the Apple platform, but only if Apple did not create something that was compatible. If Apple does this then M$ are not needed. They could also bring out Keynote for the PC, it's a good application, they did it with AppleWorks, I don't know how many people bought it though!
  • Reply 13 of 25
    kcmackcmac Posts: 1,051member
    I don't expect Apple to do much more with Keynote. I think it's main objectives were reached.



    1. Give something to Jobs for his use vs. the dreaded Powerpoint.

    2. Polish it up and put it on the market trying to

    a. Recoup some of the funds used to create it.

    b. Push MS into improving Powerpoint.



    I think they have done these things. A lot of little improvements that people early on begged for have never been addressed and I just don't think ever will be.



    Keynote is elegant and easy to use. But in the corporate environment, it just isn't something you can trust for compatability with Powerpoint. Of course if you don't have to worry about importing to or exporting from PP, then you are probably fine with Keynote just how it is. Another objective probably met by Apple.
  • Reply 14 of 25
    Quote:

    Originally posted by MacCrazy

    I've spoken to a lot of people who would be unhappy if M$ left the Apple platform, but only if Apple did not create something that was compatible. If Apple does this then M$ are not needed. They could also bring out Keynote for the PC, it's a good application, they did it with AppleWorks, I don't know how many people bought it though!



    AppleWorks is a very old codebase that was much easier to port. Same with iTunes.



    People asking for ports of Keynote or iChat don't seem to understand Apple's way of doing things nowadays.



    First: iTunes, QuickTime, Appleworks are all apps from the OS 9 days, coded in C/C++ and worked on Windows with a ported toolbox. The new apps, such as iChat and Keynote, are Cocoa-based apps...mostly coded in Objective-C. Cocoa apps are not easily portable to other platforms without significant rewriting.



    Second: Even if the Cocoa apps were rewritten into .NET or something, they would not work like the Mac version...not only because the codebase would be totally different, but also because Apple now creates software that is very intertwined with Mac OS X. Apps make use of frameworks such as QuickTime, Rendezvous/OpenTalk, OpenGL, etc... These frameworks are all available by default on Mac...but on PCs, you have to install QuickTime, Rendezvous/OpenTalk, and OpenGL seperately.



    Third: A port to Windows would make little sense because Apple sells computers. A port of new Apple apps to Windows, while increasing the userbase for that app, does not incite PC users to move to Macs. Apple loses.



    Apple doesn't want to just be a software company. Apple wants to control the whole experience...hardware and software. That's what makes Macs so great. Apple does not want to sell only hardware or sell only software.
  • Reply 15 of 25
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Hobbes

    [whisper]If some lo-cal version of an Apple Office suite or (alternately) a revamped AppleWorks X isn't released come this MWSF '05, I'll eat my hat. [/whisper]





    Dear Hobbes I very much wish for you to never have to eat your hat!
  • Reply 16 of 25
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,312member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kcmac

    I don't expect Apple to do much more with Keynote. I think it's main objectives were reached.



    1. Give something to Jobs for his use vs. the dreaded Powerpoint.

    2. Polish it up and put it on the market trying to

    a. Recoup some of the funds used to create it.

    b. Push MS into improving Powerpoint.



    I think they have done these things. A lot of little improvements that people early on begged for have never been addressed and I just don't think ever will be.



    Keynote is elegant and easy to use. But in the corporate environment, it just isn't something you can trust for compatability with Powerpoint. Of course if you don't have to worry about importing to or exporting from PP, then you are probably fine with Keynote just how it is. Another objective probably met by Apple.




    That just seems improbable. Apple is in no position to "Push" MS in anything that's like a gnat trying to push an elephant. I don't think Apple would go through the effort of developing Keynote and then selling it to consumers and eduaction to "make a point". Doesn't make fiscal sense. My theory goes like this.



    Keynote was developed during a little "mini cold war" that developed a few years back between Apple and MS. Remember that keynote when Apple didn't mention MS at all..nary a MS product was even hinted at. At that time there was a palpable sense that Apple/MS relations where not good and that Apple would indeed launch their own suite. Thinksecret is rarely wrong due to good sources and the word was Apple was shopping their "Document" word processor around. Keynote had to be a vital piece in that suite and the one piece that could be released without causing too much of an uproar.



    Now that relations have improved Keynote has been put on the "slow track" for upgrades along with iCal. This probably was due to an "agreement" between Apple and MS to co-operate and market MS Office 2004 which you can tell Apple did with uncommon intensity(front page for over a week). Apple and MS may agree to compete in 2005 and that's that. Apple cannot depend on MS Office to take them where they need to go. They need a bedrock app that utilizes Apple grown tech and more as a showcase. Their business fortunes cannot rise without competing directly with MS. Its a fallacy to think otherwise. If you "must" have MS Office everyone on the planet knows a PC runs it best in a biz environment.
  • Reply 17 of 25
    a_greera_greer Posts: 4,594member
    If apple does relese an office suite, they should relese it for windows at the same time, face the facts, at this point, o beat MS, you have to play in their yard. Sell the whole suit for $100 mac(free on ALL new ones) and $199 for PC, all or nothing, undercut MS and win.



    but first things first, how about an apple branded exchange client...or even a server app...
  • Reply 18 of 25
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kcmac

    I don't expect Apple to do much more with Keynote. I think it's main objectives were reached.



    1. Give something to Jobs for his use vs. the dreaded Powerpoint.

    2. Polish it up and put it on the market trying to

    a. Recoup some of the funds used to create it.

    b. Push MS into improving Powerpoint.





    I thought the objective was to send Microsoft a message :"We couldn't give a flying crap if you pulled Office from the Mac."



    I don't think keynote is in jeoprady. I just think Apple has a lot going on right now and resources are kinda stretched.
  • Reply 19 of 25
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kcmac

    ...

    Of course if you don't have to worry about importing to or exporting from PP, then you are probably fine with Keynote just how it is. ...




    Actually, Keynote could use several new features. Better navigation in playback, better control of QT movies, better graphics to name just a few.
  • Reply 20 of 25
    A few things Apple should do if they release their own office suite:



    1) Include full compatibility with Open Office. Despite Microsoft Office's huge market share, Open Office runs on all three main operating systems (Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux). Heck, Apple could base their entire word processor and spreadsheet off of Open Office.



    2) Change the name from AppleWorks to something else. While I like the name Apple Works, it just doesn't sound that professional compared to Microsoft Office. Apple Works sounds like a office suite for consumers. Something like iOffice, Apple Office, Core Office, etc.



    3) Rather than trying to create a brand new product like Entourage that handles e-mail, calendars, and contacts. Just keep on improving the current ones that come bundled with the operating system and create a new product for the office suite that ties them all together.



    Something like this...



    http://www.crm4mac.com/



    Mike
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