I saw discussions of the forthcoming powerbook update specs. in Taiwan Mac website, the guy said his company had contracted with Apple to produce iBook/12" Powerbook and that's the two model he had inside informations. I thought he is a notebook engineer because he know some informations that obviously only engineer who is involved in iBook/Powerbook production will know, like from which company Apple bought panels.
According to his infromation, the next 12' Powerbook update should have a 1.7 GHz microprocessor while the iBook will focus on cost down and have some neat new functions, however he did not provide any further detail informations. According to his informations, it was not until next spring we will see these new powerbooks, but I still want believe new powerbook oct/nov, because I had been waiting for a new 15' powerbook too too tooo loooong.
Buy a pc laptop and sell it in 6 months.... then you'll he able to get a new mac laptop.......... cause you KNOW HOW WELL PC LAPTOPS HOLD THEIR VALUES!!!
So this seems like a separate G4 generation (not 7447A that is). Maybe the rumored 7448? And how are they going to cool this Radeon in 1 inch thickness?
Probably the same way dell and other laptop manufacturers cool theirs...... heatpipes.
Hmm, do you know any 1 inch thick Dell or whatever non-Apple, that has the Radeon mobility 9800? If finally this chip appears in a Powerbook, I believe it would be an underclocked version. Apple does this even in desktops.
Hmm, do you know any 1 inch thick Dell or whatever non-Apple, that has the Radeon mobility 9800? If finally this chip appears in a Powerbook, I believe it would be an underclocked version. Apple does this even in desktops.
Actually that discussion was false. I even confirmed it with apple. MacBoulle (spelling is wrong I know) reads half of the clock speed. You have to double the clock speed on the newer chips. They are running higher than some of the pc cards. My friend confirmed it with his 9800xt and I confirmed it with my 9600xt.
Actually that discussion was false. I even confirmed it with apple. MacBoulle (spelling is wrong I know) reads half of the clock speed. You have to double the clock speed on the newer chips. They are running higher than some of the pc cards. My friend confirmed it with his 9800xt and I confirmed it with my 9600xt.
That might explain the memory setting (which showed 310MHz -- doubling that would bring it up to 620MHz --which is about right for the 9600xt), but the Core setting showed 400MHz, which is 100MHz slower than the standard, and it is highly improbable that the Mac version of the 9600xt could be running at 800MHz.
On the PC side, extreme over-clockers can't get the core of the 9600xt up to 800MHz, even with modifying the cards with extra cooling. My guess it that, since Apple designers hate noise, they lowered the core speed to reduce heat and keep things quite -- question: does the Mac version of the card use a fan?
That might explain the memory setting (which showed 310MHz -- doubling that would bring it up to 620MHz --which is about right for the 9600xt), but the Core setting showed 400MHz, which is 100MHz slower than the standard, and it is highly improbable that the Mac version of the 9600xt could be running at 800MHz.
On the PC side, extreme over-clockers can't get the core of the 9600xt up to 800MHz, even with modifying the cards with extra cooling. My guess it that, since Apple designers hate noise, they lowered the core speed to reduce heat and keep things quite -- question: does the Mac version of the card use a fan?
The 9800xt matched up with PC 9800xt's when you doubled the memory speed. So those are running normal...
The 9600xt however is 100mhz behind.
Both models sport nothing but a heatsink. No fan, No heat pipes... etc.
Personally I could care less. I'd rather sacrifice a little performance for low noise. My PC sounds like it is going to take off out of my desk. And I have quiet fans damnit!
I think its a combo between the 5900 ultra and the PowerSupply... noisy bastards.
I remember reading that the 7448 is expected to scale up to 2GHz, which means that it probably won't start there.
I've read, but I can't find a link or verify, that FreeScale is dumping MaxBus (or at least making it optional) for the 7448. If not, or if Apple takes the MaxBus option in the near term, then they can simply keep making the current PB but with drop-in replacements for the CPU, hard drive, etc. There will be very little warning of such an update because it's so easy for Apple to do. If there's a fall update, it'll probably look like that.
If Apple is going to use FreeScale's RapidIO bus instead, which implies a long-term commitment to their PPCs, then that's a significant redesign and I wouldn't expect it until spring at the earliest.
[B]I remember reading that the 7448 is expected to scale up to 2GHz, which means that it probably won't start there.
If this is a 90nm device and Freescale has controlled some of the issues that others have had with 90nm then 2GHz maybe a possibility out of the gate. Frankly it would be good for Apple as they need a good boost to the PowerBook line.
Quote:
I've read, but I can't find a link or verify, that FreeScale is dumping MaxBus (or at least making it optional) for the 7448.
That is not exactly what I heard. Rather that the 7448 is the last device marketed with MaxBus. Similar chips using possibly the same core are planned but these won't be 7448 nor would they have MaxBus.
Quote:
If not, or if Apple takes the MaxBus option in the near term, then they can simply keep making the current PB but with drop-in replacements for the CPU, hard drive, etc. There will be very little warning of such an update because it's so easy for Apple to do. If there's a fall update, it'll probably look like that.
The one problem here is that, hopefully, the MaxBus clock rate would go to 200MHz. This might require chip set and board updates. It would be rather silly, but then not impossible, for Apple to stick with the same I/O bus speed when this one issue hurts the PowerBook more than anything.
Quote:
If Apple is going to use FreeScale's RapidIO bus instead, which implies a long-term commitment to their PPCs, then that's a significant redesign and I wouldn't expect it until spring at the earliest.
If Apple did go Rapid I/O it shouldn't be a big problem as the bus has been public for some time now. The bigger question is would Apple bother with Rapid I/O? There certainly isn't much weight in the industry behind Rapid I/O where Hypertransport seems to have taken over to a very large extent.
What Apple could do is to have Freescale build a Hypertransport enabled chip for them. This might take a little longer but it does fit into Freescales custom chip drive.
I've read, but I can't find a link or verify, that FreeScale is dumping MaxBus (or at least making it optional) for the 7448...
Quote:
... It is also expected to use the Rapid IO bus, according to past Motorola pronouncements, though MPX bus support is also anticipated to maintain backward compatibility...
Of course, that's the Register, so it must be consumed with a prudent amount of sodium chloride, but it makes sense once I realized that the 7448 is essentially the "missing link" between the 744x series and the dual-core CPU coming down the pipe.
As for RapidIO, wizard69 is basically right: It's not a matter of how hard it is to implement, it's a matter of whether Apple wants to commit the resources to implementing the protocol. Remember, RapidIO isn't up against HyperTransport in this particular case, it's up against Elastic Bus. If anything, that would be more work and more complexity (and likely more $$$$) for Motorola than HT, and even more of a loss politically for RapidIO. If the rumors around the Moto G5 are correct, Moto's already refused to adopt E-Bus at least once.
On the other hand, if Apple imagines a future for FreeScale CPUs in their portables, and in similarly constrained devices, they might find it worthwhile to build RapidIO into their controller. Really, it depends on where Apple's going more than anything.
Or, for at least one more iteration, they'll stick with MaxBus...
I have a feeling they are going to do a basic quiet upgrade before dual-core or g5 procs... Apple has re-iterated a few times that g5 is a ways off. I can't imagine apple sticking dual-core in the laptops before the desktops.
Of course, that's the Register, so it must be consumed with a prudent amount of sodium chloride, but it makes sense once I realized that the 7448 is essentially the "missing link" between the 744x series and the dual-core CPU coming down the pipe.
Can you say Tony Smith
Quote:
As for RapidIO, wizard69 is basically right: It's not a matter of how hard it is to implement, it's a matter of whether Apple wants to commit the resources to implementing the protocol. Remember, RapidIO isn't up against HyperTransport in this particular case, it's up against Elastic Bus. If anything, that would be more work and more complexity (and likely more $$$$) for Motorola than HT, and even more of a loss politically for RapidIO. If the rumors around the Moto G5 are correct, Moto's already refused to adopt E-Bus at least once.
Yes, i think Apple has no choice or is a IBM mobil chip on the horizon?
Whats about 750VX, any new infos?
Quote:
On the other hand, if Apple imagines a future for FreeScale CPUs in their portables, and in similarly constrained devices, they might find it worthwhile to build RapidIO into their controller. Really, it depends on where Apple's going more than anything.
I think Apple has no choice. If Freescale is switching to RIO Apple has to deal with.
Quote:
Or, for at least one more iteration, they'll stick with MaxBus...
Yes, i think Apple has no choice or is a IBM mobil chip on the horizon?
Whats about 750VX, any new infos?
The rumored 750VX was last rumored to have been cancelled. Assuming that the rumors are accurate, I assume that this is because Freescale showed Apple an attractive roadmap for the G4 and post-G4. Or, the whole thing was a fiction fed into the rumor mill.
The 970fx still has hope as a laptop chip. IBM redacted their original claims that it was suitable for laptops after they couldn't get the 970fx working at 0.8v. They're working on process tech that will allow them to reach 0.8v, and when they get there then all those pretty wattage numbers that people were bandying about at the beginning of this year will actually describe a shipping product, and Apple may have the 970fx as an option.
Quote:
I think Apple has no choice. If Freescale is switching to RIO Apple has to deal with.
Apple is a major customer for Freescale's high-end kit. If they don't like the chip, Freescale has a problem on their hands (their other sure-thing customer for high-end CPUs, Cisco, is having something of a hard time right now). Freescale is priding itself on modular designs that can be configured to a customers' wishes, and I'll bet Apple's trying to see how far they can push that.
I can personally see Apple making the investment in RIO just to make it easy to push the motherboard design down to the iBook, and perhaps move to the dual-core G4 and the e700 eventually in the PowerBook. RIO would then be their "portable" CPU interface. But then, that's pure speculation on my part. Apple could still be pushing hard for Freescale to adopt Elastic Bus for all I know.
Comments
Originally posted by XiaXin
I saw discussions of the forthcoming powerbook update specs. in Taiwan Mac website, the guy said his company had contracted with Apple to produce iBook/12" Powerbook and that's the two model he had inside informations. I thought he is a notebook engineer because he know some informations that obviously only engineer who is involved in iBook/Powerbook production will know, like from which company Apple bought panels.
According to his infromation, the next 12' Powerbook update should have a 1.7 GHz microprocessor while the iBook will focus on cost down and have some neat new functions, however he did not provide any further detail informations. According to his informations, it was not until next spring we will see these new powerbooks, but I still want believe new powerbook oct/nov, because I had been waiting for a new 15' powerbook too too tooo loooong.
oh god...what a dilema...to buy or not to buy...
Buy a pc laptop and sell it in 6 months.... then you'll he able to get a new mac laptop.......... cause you KNOW HOW WELL PC LAPTOPS HOLD THEIR VALUES!!!
Originally posted by dennis88
The next Rev. will have a G4 1.8 ghz or more atleast.
Apple don't want to release a powerbook which is weaker then the imac released before it.
That's just plain stupid.
Why? The iMac is a desktop, the Powerbook is a laptop and a very thin one.
The new pb's will look like this:
12" pb: 1.6 ghz G4, a Nvidia low/mid-end card 64 mb, 256mb ddr 333mhz.
15" pb: 1.8 ghz G4, Ati 9800 mobility 128 mb, 512 mb ddr 400 mhz.
17" pb: 1.8/1.93 ghz G4, Ati 9800 mobility 128 mb, 512 mb ddr 400 mhz.
All with 1024k chache.
So this seems like a separate G4 generation (not 7447A that is). Maybe the rumored 7448? And how are they going to cool this Radeon in 1 inch thickness?
Originally posted by PB
And how are they going to cool this Radeon in 1 inch thickness?
Probably the same way dell and other laptop manufacturers cool theirs...... heatpipes.
Originally posted by emig647
Probably the same way dell and other laptop manufacturers cool theirs...... heatpipes.
Hmm, do you know any 1 inch thick Dell or whatever non-Apple, that has the Radeon mobility 9800? If finally this chip appears in a Powerbook, I believe it would be an underclocked version. Apple does this even in desktops.
Originally posted by PB
Hmm, do you know any 1 inch thick Dell or whatever non-Apple, that has the Radeon mobility 9800? If finally this chip appears in a Powerbook, I believe it would be an underclocked version. Apple does this even in desktops.
Actually that discussion was false. I even confirmed it with apple. MacBoulle (spelling is wrong I know) reads half of the clock speed. You have to double the clock speed on the newer chips. They are running higher than some of the pc cards. My friend confirmed it with his 9800xt and I confirmed it with my 9600xt.
indeed be a g5 laptop
the external power supply will also contain the cpu
& a long cable will connect it to the ultrathin laptop
thereby taking care of the heat issue & all the thickness
whiners
btw this also makes the lcd /cpu interchangable
stylish wheels of course
Originally posted by emig647
Actually that discussion was false. I even confirmed it with apple. MacBoulle (spelling is wrong I know) reads half of the clock speed. You have to double the clock speed on the newer chips. They are running higher than some of the pc cards. My friend confirmed it with his 9800xt and I confirmed it with my 9600xt.
That might explain the memory setting (which showed 310MHz -- doubling that would bring it up to 620MHz --which is about right for the 9600xt), but the Core setting showed 400MHz, which is 100MHz slower than the standard, and it is highly improbable that the Mac version of the 9600xt could be running at 800MHz.
On the PC side, extreme over-clockers can't get the core of the 9600xt up to 800MHz, even with modifying the cards with extra cooling. My guess it that, since Apple designers hate noise, they lowered the core speed to reduce heat and keep things quite -- question: does the Mac version of the card use a fan?
Originally posted by emig647
...MacBoulle...
Good one!
Originally posted by PB
Good one!
MacBidouille.... sorry
MBToolkit.
Originally posted by Res
That might explain the memory setting (which showed 310MHz -- doubling that would bring it up to 620MHz --which is about right for the 9600xt), but the Core setting showed 400MHz, which is 100MHz slower than the standard, and it is highly improbable that the Mac version of the 9600xt could be running at 800MHz.
On the PC side, extreme over-clockers can't get the core of the 9600xt up to 800MHz, even with modifying the cards with extra cooling. My guess it that, since Apple designers hate noise, they lowered the core speed to reduce heat and keep things quite -- question: does the Mac version of the card use a fan?
The 9800xt matched up with PC 9800xt's when you doubled the memory speed. So those are running normal...
The 9600xt however is 100mhz behind.
Both models sport nothing but a heatsink. No fan, No heat pipes... etc.
Personally I could care less. I'd rather sacrifice a little performance for low noise. My PC sounds like it is going to take off out of my desk. And I have quiet fans damnit!
I think its a combo between the 5900 ultra and the PowerSupply... noisy bastards.
I've read, but I can't find a link or verify, that FreeScale is dumping MaxBus (or at least making it optional) for the 7448. If not, or if Apple takes the MaxBus option in the near term, then they can simply keep making the current PB but with drop-in replacements for the CPU, hard drive, etc. There will be very little warning of such an update because it's so easy for Apple to do. If there's a fall update, it'll probably look like that.
If Apple is going to use FreeScale's RapidIO bus instead, which implies a long-term commitment to their PPCs, then that's a significant redesign and I wouldn't expect it until spring at the earliest.
Originally posted by Amorph
[B]I remember reading that the 7448 is expected to scale up to 2GHz, which means that it probably won't start there.
If this is a 90nm device and Freescale has controlled some of the issues that others have had with 90nm then 2GHz maybe a possibility out of the gate. Frankly it would be good for Apple as they need a good boost to the PowerBook line.
I've read, but I can't find a link or verify, that FreeScale is dumping MaxBus (or at least making it optional) for the 7448.
That is not exactly what I heard. Rather that the 7448 is the last device marketed with MaxBus. Similar chips using possibly the same core are planned but these won't be 7448 nor would they have MaxBus.
If not, or if Apple takes the MaxBus option in the near term, then they can simply keep making the current PB but with drop-in replacements for the CPU, hard drive, etc. There will be very little warning of such an update because it's so easy for Apple to do. If there's a fall update, it'll probably look like that.
The one problem here is that, hopefully, the MaxBus clock rate would go to 200MHz. This might require chip set and board updates. It would be rather silly, but then not impossible, for Apple to stick with the same I/O bus speed when this one issue hurts the PowerBook more than anything.
If Apple is going to use FreeScale's RapidIO bus instead, which implies a long-term commitment to their PPCs, then that's a significant redesign and I wouldn't expect it until spring at the earliest.
If Apple did go Rapid I/O it shouldn't be a big problem as the bus has been public for some time now. The bigger question is would Apple bother with Rapid I/O? There certainly isn't much weight in the industry behind Rapid I/O where Hypertransport seems to have taken over to a very large extent.
What Apple could do is to have Freescale build a Hypertransport enabled chip for them. This might take a little longer but it does fit into Freescales custom chip drive.
Originally posted by Amorph
I've read, but I can't find a link or verify, that FreeScale is dumping MaxBus (or at least making it optional) for the 7448...
... It is also expected to use the Rapid IO bus, according to past Motorola pronouncements, though MPX bus support is also anticipated to maintain backward compatibility...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08...ores_detailed/
Originally posted by Fat Freddy
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08...ores_detailed/
Ah, yes. Thanks.
Of course, that's the Register, so it must be consumed with a prudent amount of sodium chloride, but it makes sense once I realized that the 7448 is essentially the "missing link" between the 744x series and the dual-core CPU coming down the pipe.
As for RapidIO, wizard69 is basically right: It's not a matter of how hard it is to implement, it's a matter of whether Apple wants to commit the resources to implementing the protocol. Remember, RapidIO isn't up against HyperTransport in this particular case, it's up against Elastic Bus. If anything, that would be more work and more complexity (and likely more $$$$) for Motorola than HT, and even more of a loss politically for RapidIO. If the rumors around the Moto G5 are correct, Moto's already refused to adopt E-Bus at least once.
On the other hand, if Apple imagines a future for FreeScale CPUs in their portables, and in similarly constrained devices, they might find it worthwhile to build RapidIO into their controller. Really, it depends on where Apple's going more than anything.
Or, for at least one more iteration, they'll stick with MaxBus...
Guess we'll all have to wait and see eh?
Originally posted by Amorph
Ah, yes. Thanks.
Of course, that's the Register, so it must be consumed with a prudent amount of sodium chloride, but it makes sense once I realized that the 7448 is essentially the "missing link" between the 744x series and the dual-core CPU coming down the pipe.
Can you say Tony Smith
As for RapidIO, wizard69 is basically right: It's not a matter of how hard it is to implement, it's a matter of whether Apple wants to commit the resources to implementing the protocol. Remember, RapidIO isn't up against HyperTransport in this particular case, it's up against Elastic Bus. If anything, that would be more work and more complexity (and likely more $$$$) for Motorola than HT, and even more of a loss politically for RapidIO. If the rumors around the Moto G5 are correct, Moto's already refused to adopt E-Bus at least once.
Yes, i think Apple has no choice or is a IBM mobil chip on the horizon?
Whats about 750VX, any new infos?
On the other hand, if Apple imagines a future for FreeScale CPUs in their portables, and in similarly constrained devices, they might find it worthwhile to build RapidIO into their controller. Really, it depends on where Apple's going more than anything.
I think Apple has no choice. If Freescale is switching to RIO Apple has to deal with.
Or, for at least one more iteration, they'll stick with MaxBus...
If so, Freescale will dropping the ball.
Originally posted by Fat Freddy
Yes, i think Apple has no choice or is a IBM mobil chip on the horizon?
Whats about 750VX, any new infos?
The rumored 750VX was last rumored to have been cancelled. Assuming that the rumors are accurate, I assume that this is because Freescale showed Apple an attractive roadmap for the G4 and post-G4. Or, the whole thing was a fiction fed into the rumor mill.
The 970fx still has hope as a laptop chip. IBM redacted their original claims that it was suitable for laptops after they couldn't get the 970fx working at 0.8v. They're working on process tech that will allow them to reach 0.8v, and when they get there then all those pretty wattage numbers that people were bandying about at the beginning of this year will actually describe a shipping product, and Apple may have the 970fx as an option.
I think Apple has no choice. If Freescale is switching to RIO Apple has to deal with.
Apple is a major customer for Freescale's high-end kit. If they don't like the chip, Freescale has a problem on their hands (their other sure-thing customer for high-end CPUs, Cisco, is having something of a hard time right now). Freescale is priding itself on modular designs that can be configured to a customers' wishes, and I'll bet Apple's trying to see how far they can push that.
I can personally see Apple making the investment in RIO just to make it easy to push the motherboard design down to the iBook, and perhaps move to the dual-core G4 and the e700 eventually in the PowerBook. RIO would then be their "portable" CPU interface. But then, that's pure speculation on my part. Apple could still be pushing hard for Freescale to adopt Elastic Bus for all I know.
Originally posted by Amorph
Apple is a major customer for Freescale's high-end kit. If they don't like the chip, Freescale has a problem on their hands ...
Yes you're right but Freescale also knows that IBM has no mobil chip yet.
But i think Apple was talking with Freescale about the problem and Apple will use the future Freescale chips.