The engine are not 9' in diameter. The outer housing(aluminum) may be, however, the gas turbine is not that large. Take some engineering classes... Materials, Dynamics, even Engineering Physids... You'll see your concerns are not well placed in this instance. It was a plane. It was a large plane that struck the pentagon. It was a fast moving plane that struck the pentagon. 500+ MPH is faster than most cameras can clearly record.
Recording rate: 32 frames/sec.
Speed of plane: 777.33 feet/sec
feet coverd per frame: 24...
No wonder the plane is blury.
Fair enough...I must have been referring to the outer casings. But when it comes down to the chase, these details are almost beside the point.
There are tapes being withheld from public scrutiny. How many we dont know...but one from the gas station, another from the hotel and an unknown number from Pentagon security cams. That is at least 3.
We can speculate for ever ad infinitum, but the matter will never be satisfactority settled until:.....
Message to the FBI and the Pentagon and any other paranoid Govt. agencies who are hiding vital evidence: Give it up, what are you scared of? These tapes will either flatten the conspiracists at a single stroke and settle the matter once and for all....or show something that is inconsistent with a Boeing 757. Its as simple as that.
Kickaha and Amorph couldn't moderate themselves out of a paper bag. Abdicate responsibility and succumb to idiocy. Two years of letting a member make personal attacks against others, then stepping aside when someone won't put up with it. Not only that but go ahead and shut down my posting priviledges but not the one making the attacks. Not even the common decency to abide by their warning (afer three days of absorbing personal attacks with no mods in sight), just shut my posting down and then say it might happen later if a certian line is crossed. Bullshit flag is flying, I won't abide by lying and coddling of liars who go off-site, create accounts differing in a single letter from my handle with the express purpose to decieve and then claim here that I did it. Everyone be warned, kim kap sol is a lying, deceitful poster.
Now I guess they should have banned me rather than just shut off posting priviledges, because kickaha and Amorph definitely aren't going to like being called to task when they thought they had it all ignored *cough* *cough* I mean under control. Just a couple o' tools.
Don't worry, as soon as my work resetting my posts is done I'll disappear forever.
Why was no evidence of the plane found in the building? And the fuel? The fuel is a huge question. People on the ground floor of the WTC towers were burned by the fuel that travelled 80+ floors down the elevator shafts. What would have happened on the ground at the Pentagon?
Gotta love Sammi! Never met a fact or detail she let get in the way of her conspiracy theories!
You have been hereby nominated as a lifetime member of the Lone Gunmen!
As I suggested earlier....if you didnt read, or didnt want to:
The FBI and the Pentagon have video-tapes of the Flight 77 event that could bury the conspiracy theories. If they have nothing to hide, then lets see those damned tapes!!!! The American people have seen Flights 11 and 175 slamming into the WTC more times than is countable....so we can handle it. Show us the tapes and demonstrate to us the damned truth, and let the speculation stop once and for always. If the tapes all concur and show a United Airlines 757 slamming into the side of the Pentagon, then so be it...the matter is over and settled for good, and the skeptics and conspiracy theorists would be silenced.
Can anyone suggest a valid and defensible reason why both the Pentagon and the FBI (and whatever other agency have a video record) refuse to show these tapes publicly??? After all....if they did, won't we see a large, commercial airplane with United Airlines colors flying close to the ground in an area to which the public has 24/7 visual access?...so invoking "national security considerations" as an excuse would be irrelevant and 100% non-credible.
Kickaha and Amorph couldn't moderate themselves out of a paper bag. Abdicate responsibility and succumb to idiocy. Two years of letting a member make personal attacks against others, then stepping aside when someone won't put up with it. Not only that but go ahead and shut down my posting priviledges but not the one making the attacks. Not even the common decency to abide by their warning (afer three days of absorbing personal attacks with no mods in sight), just shut my posting down and then say it might happen later if a certian line is crossed. Bullshit flag is flying, I won't abide by lying and coddling of liars who go off-site, create accounts differing in a single letter from my handle with the express purpose to decieve and then claim here that I did it. Everyone be warned, kim kap sol is a lying, deceitful poster.
Now I guess they should have banned me rather than just shut off posting priviledges, because kickaha and Amorph definitely aren't going to like being called to task when they thought they had it all ignored *cough* *cough* I mean under control. Just a couple o' tools.
Don't worry, as soon as my work resetting my posts is done I'll disappear forever.
Kickaha and Amorph couldn't moderate themselves out of a paper bag. Abdicate responsibility and succumb to idiocy. Two years of letting a member make personal attacks against others, then stepping aside when someone won't put up with it. Not only that but go ahead and shut down my posting priviledges but not the one making the attacks. Not even the common decency to abide by their warning (afer three days of absorbing personal attacks with no mods in sight), just shut my posting down and then say it might happen later if a certian line is crossed. Bullshit flag is flying, I won't abide by lying and coddling of liars who go off-site, create accounts differing in a single letter from my handle with the express purpose to decieve and then claim here that I did it. Everyone be warned, kim kap sol is a lying, deceitful poster.
Now I guess they should have banned me rather than just shut off posting priviledges, because kickaha and Amorph definitely aren't going to like being called to task when they thought they had it all ignored *cough* *cough* I mean under control. Just a couple o' tools.
Don't worry, as soon as my work resetting my posts is done I'll disappear forever.
I know that's not you sammi. But the hat's resemblance is striking!
Oh dear, here we go again. Yawn. Let me hold your hand and try one more time OK:
(1) A conspiracy is "an agreement between two or more individuals to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.'
(2) A theory is (in this context), "an assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture".
(3) 9-11 was a conspiracy...nobody will argue against that, as a plan as complex as that requires large number personnel to execute it.
(4) The Government's explanation is a conspiracy theory. It has some facts to back it up, but there are too many holes, too many contradictions, too many impossibilities and too many unanswered questions to assign a QED to it.
(5) There are other conspiracy theories out there, (such as the "Operation Pearl" scenario) which has been tailored to fit the facts and timeline, but leaves another bunch of questions unanswered. Similarly with other conspiracy theories.
(6) The conspiracy theory that gets the most "credibility" is the one that gets the exposure. In this case, the Government's version was up and running as soon as the event happened. The national and world media took that ball and ran with it, while confusion and chaos reigned. Gradually, upon examination, other possibilities reared their heads.....
(7) Whichever explanation that has been repeated and repeated ad infinitum, in this case the Government version (despite its own weaknesses, combined with the lack of knowledge of the event amongst the public), is the one which eventually assumes the mantle of truth in the individual and collective psyche.
(8.) Alternative explanations therefore, regardless of merit, assume mantle of non-credibility.
To express skepticism when reasonable doubt exists is in my view rational. To express blind faith and ignore facts is....irrational. Tinfoil hats are not required, or inappropriate. I have offered no alternative explanation.... The friends and relatives of those who died that morning deserve nothing but the truth from their government...not a half baked story couched in paranoia, unnecessary secrecy, silence, balking of inquiries, and even outright lies. As of yet, these people have been roundly denied their simple and most deserved request. If I was a close relative of one of those who were murdered...I know I would feel at least as angry.
This is but an example of our human tendency to create explanations for things we cannot understand. If SJO and Bunge took Faust up on his suggestion to study particle physics. If they studied the burn rates of jet fuel, paid ATTENTION to the fact that a fire burned for 12 hours and REALIZED that reality can often defy our expectations with astonishing alternatives, they might understand why some of us "so blindly" follow the "official" story.
But none of you are going to change each others' minds (well one mind was changed), so this is just head-butting at this point.
Ummm, a fire that burned too hot to approach with manned hose teams for about 12 hours??? JP doesn't burn hot enough to fuse anything, just melt metal.
You're right about that. I love how the plane was supposedley shredded going throught the building, and the 'fire' was hot enought to melt something like 99% of the airframe, but they were able to recover enough remains to identify almost everyone with DNA??
Ummm, a fire that burned too hot to approach with manned hose teams for about 12 hours??? JP doesn't burn hot enough to fuse anything, just melt metal.
This is but an example of our human tendency to create explanations for things we cannot understand. If SJO and Bunge took Faust up on his suggestion to study particle physics. If they studied the burn rates of jet fuel, paid ATTENTION to the fact that a fire burned for 12 hours and REALIZED that reality can often defy our expectations with astonishing alternatives, they might understand why some of us "so blindly" follow the "official" story.
But none of you are going to change each others' minds (well one mind was changed), so this is just head-butting at this point.
See, now you're just being a dick. I'm asking some realistic questions because I'm genuinely curious. I didn't bother to read this thread at first because I thought it was silly, and when I finally looked I saw that circular hole and it was intriguing.
Regardless of what hit the Pentagon, I want to know why the fuck my government took those tapes and isn't willing to release them to the public. If that doesn't bother you then you have a larger problem than the one you're imposing on me.
Ummm, a fire that burned too hot to approach with manned hose teams for about 12 hours???
Let's compare the images of the Pentagon to the World Trade Center towers. If the fuel in the towers could travel down 80+ floors I would personally expect a much larger fire at the Pentagon. 80+ floors is a large area, even if it's concentrated in a 10'x20' elevator shaft.
Can anyone estimate the scale of the explosions on the outside of the buildings for the different crashes? The footage we have of the Pentagon shows a fireball that's taller than the Pentagon itself, but I don't know how many floors the explosion covered at the WTC.
Now it could have simply been that the plane that hit it didn't have as much fuel in it. Or it could be something else.
Comments
Originally posted by faust9
The engine are not 9' in diameter. The outer housing(aluminum) may be, however, the gas turbine is not that large. Take some engineering classes... Materials, Dynamics, even Engineering Physids... You'll see your concerns are not well placed in this instance. It was a plane. It was a large plane that struck the pentagon. It was a fast moving plane that struck the pentagon. 500+ MPH is faster than most cameras can clearly record.
Recording rate: 32 frames/sec.
Speed of plane: 777.33 feet/sec
feet coverd per frame: 24...
No wonder the plane is blury.
Fair enough...I must have been referring to the outer casings. But when it comes down to the chase, these details are almost beside the point.
There are tapes being withheld from public scrutiny. How many we dont know...but one from the gas station, another from the hotel and an unknown number from Pentagon security cams. That is at least 3.
We can speculate for ever ad infinitum, but the matter will never be satisfactority settled until:.....
Message to the FBI and the Pentagon and any other paranoid Govt. agencies who are hiding vital evidence: Give it up, what are you scared of? These tapes will either flatten the conspiracists at a single stroke and settle the matter once and for all....or show something that is inconsistent with a Boeing 757. Its as simple as that.
Why the balking?????? That is the question.
Now I guess they should have banned me rather than just shut off posting priviledges, because kickaha and Amorph definitely aren't going to like being called to task when they thought they had it all ignored *cough* *cough* I mean under control. Just a couple o' tools.
Don't worry, as soon as my work resetting my posts is done I'll disappear forever.
Originally posted by AirSluf
You have been hereby nominated as a lifetime member of the Lone Gunmen!
*cough* The Lone Gunmen pilot *cough*
Originally posted by AirSluf
Gotta love Sammi! Never met a fact or detail she let get in the way of her conspiracy theories!
You have been hereby nominated as a lifetime member of the Lone Gunmen!
As I suggested earlier....if you didnt read, or didnt want to:
The FBI and the Pentagon have video-tapes of the Flight 77 event that could bury the conspiracy theories. If they have nothing to hide, then lets see those damned tapes!!!! The American people have seen Flights 11 and 175 slamming into the WTC more times than is countable....so we can handle it. Show us the tapes and demonstrate to us the damned truth, and let the speculation stop once and for always. If the tapes all concur and show a United Airlines 757 slamming into the side of the Pentagon, then so be it...the matter is over and settled for good, and the skeptics and conspiracy theorists would be silenced.
Can anyone suggest a valid and defensible reason why both the Pentagon and the FBI (and whatever other agency have a video record) refuse to show these tapes publicly??? After all....if they did, won't we see a large, commercial airplane with United Airlines colors flying close to the ground in an area to which the public has 24/7 visual access?...so invoking "national security considerations" as an excuse would be irrelevant and 100% non-credible.
Now I guess they should have banned me rather than just shut off posting priviledges, because kickaha and Amorph definitely aren't going to like being called to task when they thought they had it all ignored *cough* *cough* I mean under control. Just a couple o' tools.
Don't worry, as soon as my work resetting my posts is done I'll disappear forever.
Now I guess they should have banned me rather than just shut off posting priviledges, because kickaha and Amorph definitely aren't going to like being called to task when they thought they had it all ignored *cough* *cough* I mean under control. Just a couple o' tools.
Don't worry, as soon as my work resetting my posts is done I'll disappear forever.
Originally posted by AirSluf
I know that's not you sammi. But the hat's resemblance is striking!
Oh dear, here we go again. Yawn. Let me hold your hand and try one more time OK:
(1) A conspiracy is "an agreement between two or more individuals to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.'
(2) A theory is (in this context), "an assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture".
(3) 9-11 was a conspiracy...nobody will argue against that, as a plan as complex as that requires large number personnel to execute it.
(4) The Government's explanation is a conspiracy theory. It has some facts to back it up, but there are too many holes, too many contradictions, too many impossibilities and too many unanswered questions to assign a QED to it.
(5) There are other conspiracy theories out there, (such as the "Operation Pearl" scenario) which has been tailored to fit the facts and timeline, but leaves another bunch of questions unanswered. Similarly with other conspiracy theories.
(6) The conspiracy theory that gets the most "credibility" is the one that gets the exposure. In this case, the Government's version was up and running as soon as the event happened. The national and world media took that ball and ran with it, while confusion and chaos reigned. Gradually, upon examination, other possibilities reared their heads.....
(7) Whichever explanation that has been repeated and repeated ad infinitum, in this case the Government version (despite its own weaknesses, combined with the lack of knowledge of the event amongst the public), is the one which eventually assumes the mantle of truth in the individual and collective psyche.
(8.) Alternative explanations therefore, regardless of merit, assume mantle of non-credibility.
To express skepticism when reasonable doubt exists is in my view rational. To express blind faith and ignore facts is....irrational. Tinfoil hats are not required, or inappropriate. I have offered no alternative explanation.... The friends and relatives of those who died that morning deserve nothing but the truth from their government...not a half baked story couched in paranoia, unnecessary secrecy, silence, balking of inquiries, and even outright lies. As of yet, these people have been roundly denied their simple and most deserved request. If I was a close relative of one of those who were murdered...I know I would feel at least as angry.
That is what is pissing me off.
This is but an example of our human tendency to create explanations for things we cannot understand. If SJO and Bunge took Faust up on his suggestion to study particle physics. If they studied the burn rates of jet fuel, paid ATTENTION to the fact that a fire burned for 12 hours and REALIZED that reality can often defy our expectations with astonishing alternatives, they might understand why some of us "so blindly" follow the "official" story.
But none of you are going to change each others' minds (well one mind was changed), so this is just head-butting at this point.
Originally posted by AirSluf
Ummm, a fire that burned too hot to approach with manned hose teams for about 12 hours??? JP doesn't burn hot enough to fuse anything, just melt metal.
You're right about that. I love how the plane was supposedley shredded going throught the building, and the 'fire' was hot enought to melt something like 99% of the airframe, but they were able to recover enough remains to identify almost everyone with DNA??
Originally posted by AirSluf
Ummm, a fire that burned too hot to approach with manned hose teams for about 12 hours??? JP doesn't burn hot enough to fuse anything, just melt metal.
What's JP?
Originally posted by drewprops
This is but an example of our human tendency to create explanations for things we cannot understand. If SJO and Bunge took Faust up on his suggestion to study particle physics. If they studied the burn rates of jet fuel, paid ATTENTION to the fact that a fire burned for 12 hours and REALIZED that reality can often defy our expectations with astonishing alternatives, they might understand why some of us "so blindly" follow the "official" story.
But none of you are going to change each others' minds (well one mind was changed), so this is just head-butting at this point.
See, now you're just being a dick. I'm asking some realistic questions because I'm genuinely curious. I didn't bother to read this thread at first because I thought it was silly, and when I finally looked I saw that circular hole and it was intriguing.
Regardless of what hit the Pentagon, I want to know why the fuck my government took those tapes and isn't willing to release them to the public. If that doesn't bother you then you have a larger problem than the one you're imposing on me.
Originally posted by AirSluf
Ummm, a fire that burned too hot to approach with manned hose teams for about 12 hours???
Let's compare the images of the Pentagon to the World Trade Center towers. If the fuel in the towers could travel down 80+ floors I would personally expect a much larger fire at the Pentagon. 80+ floors is a large area, even if it's concentrated in a 10'x20' elevator shaft.
Can anyone estimate the scale of the explosions on the outside of the buildings for the different crashes? The footage we have of the Pentagon shows a fireball that's taller than the Pentagon itself, but I don't know how many floors the explosion covered at the WTC.
Now it could have simply been that the plane that hit it didn't have as much fuel in it. Or it could be something else.
Originally posted by bunge
What's JP?
What would you think it means? Hint: AirSluf is some sort of Brit/Aussie/NZ/whatever...based on cursory reading of a handful of his posts.
(mue)lortep tej
Originally posted by johnq
What would you think it means?
In context I figured it was Jet Fuel, but why the hell would it be capitalized and abbreviated? And without punctuation?
Originally posted by bunge
In context I figured it was Jet Fuel, but why the hell would it be capitalized and abbreviated? And without punctuation?
No punctuation? No idea why...
Caps? not sure...Probably IM's fault....OMG ROTFL etc...
Originally posted by johnq
No punctuation? No idea why...
No, but when communicating it's usually better to communicate accurately. Steve Jobs is a known quantity on these boards.