Sources: Virtual PC 7.0 released under pressure, lacks planned features
Amidst pressure from several avenues, Microsoft was forced to cut features from its new Windows emulation software in order to deliver G5 compatibility without further delays.
Many of the feature enhancements originally planned for Virtual PC 7.0 did not make it into the version of software that will begin shipping this month, multiple sources tell AppleInsider.
According to reports, the emerging presence of Apple's G5 processor played a major role in Microsoft's decision to trim a significant number of features from the emulation software late in its development cycle. As a result, sources said that the software may not run as fast as some users may have come to expect.
Native Graphics Card Support
While Apple began introducing G5-based computers in June of last year, a G5 compatible version of Virtual PC had yet to ship a year later. It was about this time that Redmond, Wash.-based Microsoft began feeling pressure from Apple to get the product out the door, sources said. With current and potential G5 customers miffed over a lack of Virtual PC support, and an imminent release of the iMac G5 around the corner, Microsoft began to trim around the fat.
One of the key features to hit the chopping block was native graphics card support. Although Virtual PC 7.0 does deliver faster, cleaner graphics, users will find that the software still emulates the S3 Virge chipset from the late 90s, with no 3D acceleration. Sources said that native graphics support remains under development, but is unlikely to surface for many months.
Expanded RAM and emulated RAM Disk
Several additional features have also been delayed until future revisions of software, such as an increase in the software's PC memory from 512MB to 4GB and a new option to use Virtual PC's virtual PC hard drive as a RAM disk for faster virtual disk performance.
Multiprocessor Support Refinements
Microsoft has also decided to hold off on some refinements to Virtual PC's multiprocessing support, which will eventually allow audio emulation, networking, IDE I/O, and USB functions to be offloaded from the primary processor.
Virtual PC 7.0 was released to manufacturing late last month and should begin arriving on retail store shelves in October. The release will deliver support for G5-based Apple computers, better graphics handling, expanded preferences, and an improved user experience.
Future versions of Virtual PC are expected to reacquire most, if not all of the features cut from the development of Virtual PC 7.0. Unfortunately, sources were unable to provide target release dates, stating only that some features may not mature until next summer.
Many of the feature enhancements originally planned for Virtual PC 7.0 did not make it into the version of software that will begin shipping this month, multiple sources tell AppleInsider.
According to reports, the emerging presence of Apple's G5 processor played a major role in Microsoft's decision to trim a significant number of features from the emulation software late in its development cycle. As a result, sources said that the software may not run as fast as some users may have come to expect.
Native Graphics Card Support
While Apple began introducing G5-based computers in June of last year, a G5 compatible version of Virtual PC had yet to ship a year later. It was about this time that Redmond, Wash.-based Microsoft began feeling pressure from Apple to get the product out the door, sources said. With current and potential G5 customers miffed over a lack of Virtual PC support, and an imminent release of the iMac G5 around the corner, Microsoft began to trim around the fat.
One of the key features to hit the chopping block was native graphics card support. Although Virtual PC 7.0 does deliver faster, cleaner graphics, users will find that the software still emulates the S3 Virge chipset from the late 90s, with no 3D acceleration. Sources said that native graphics support remains under development, but is unlikely to surface for many months.
Expanded RAM and emulated RAM Disk
Several additional features have also been delayed until future revisions of software, such as an increase in the software's PC memory from 512MB to 4GB and a new option to use Virtual PC's virtual PC hard drive as a RAM disk for faster virtual disk performance.
Multiprocessor Support Refinements
Microsoft has also decided to hold off on some refinements to Virtual PC's multiprocessing support, which will eventually allow audio emulation, networking, IDE I/O, and USB functions to be offloaded from the primary processor.
Virtual PC 7.0 was released to manufacturing late last month and should begin arriving on retail store shelves in October. The release will deliver support for G5-based Apple computers, better graphics handling, expanded preferences, and an improved user experience.
Future versions of Virtual PC are expected to reacquire most, if not all of the features cut from the development of Virtual PC 7.0. Unfortunately, sources were unable to provide target release dates, stating only that some features may not mature until next summer.
Comments
VPC Pro = $$$
sounds familiar.
Originally posted by BuonRotto
From the company that will someday bring you Shorthorn, here comes VPC Limited edition.
I'm not really sure that it's all that unfair to say what you did... I mean, all said and done, it took them over a year to do what? Add G5 support and basically nothing else? Seems fairly lackluster to me, really.
To my way of thinking, it was those features that they carved out that most people were holding their breathe for (native graphic card support.... mmmmm).
G5 support
Memory expansion - 512 is horrid
Native graphics
and for those with a PowerBook:
Capturing the PCMCIA card
Just about everything else could be brought out in 7.1, 7.2, etc.
This is one time the guys & gals at MBU didn't live up to their reputation.
Getting VPC out ASAP to G5 owners who had nothing before DOES seem like a valid priority.
Now, let's hope for the next version as soon as they can do it.
Knowing this, I will NOT buy VP7. I don't want to be stuck paying for 7 and 8.
I'll wait until VPC runs on Tiger and has native GPU support. But if I had a G5 and didn't already have a way to run Windows apps, I'd be glad to get ANY VPC as soon as its ready, with or without all the features.
Originally posted by rmongold
I'm not really sure that it's all that unfair to say what you did... I mean, all said and done, it took them over a year to do what? Add G5 support and basically nothing else? Seems fairly lackluster to me, really.
You're forgetting all of the effort Microsoft has probably been putting into...
1) Making sure that Linux can no longer run on a Virtual PC.
2) Making sure that if you have multiple VPCs that each one has to have its own individually licensed and paid-for copy of Windows installed.
3) Making sure that all DRM restrictions are tied to the computer on which you're running the VPC software, not to the Virtual PC itself, otherwise (horrors!) you might run the risk of using multiple copies of a VPC to put the same restricted software and media on multiple machines.
The most significant update ever (aside from actually running on the computers), and the only reason I wanted this version - which was expected to restore this once-present but long-missing feature. And after all these delays, they didn't even include it.
What the heck took them so long if it wasn't to improve the product? Unbelievable.
Originally posted by AppleInsider
under pressure, lacks planned features
Introduceing Longhorn! First on Mac
They'll call it 8.0 and take our money.
Fck yuo Microshaft...yuo and yuor Business Team screw ups.
BUZZ
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Will they give us what was planned for 7.0 in a free future point release upgrade? Or will they call the next release 8.0 and swindle us once again?
They'll call it 8.0 and take our money.
<snip>
You bet they will. M$ is known for doing this sort of thing - promising features, not delivering them, and charging excessively for upgrades that include the features. If M$ considers that a business tactic to "milk" its customers, it is a truly horrible idea and will only keep people away (like you, kim kap sol) once they catch on. Since I already have a "real" PC, I don't need VPC anyway.
I'm not blaming the MBU for this one, but MS itself.
How on earth could MS have this product for a year, and do nothing with it. When I saw the demo of what it would have the other day, I noted very little difference from what 6 had.
Now we don't get Native Graphics support!!!
They can't get Longhorn out on time, and when they do release it, it will be hobbled, now they can't get VC 7 out either without hobbling it either.
One year, one of the largest R&D's around, and they are hobbling everything in site.
My take, MS is having a lot of internal troubles.
Apple announced what it was putting in Tiger, and is now ADDING to the list!!!
Originally posted by wrldwzrd89
Since I already have a "real" PC, I don't need VPC anyway.
Ditto here. I just hope people don't get suckered into buying 7.0 and then feel like they need to buy the next upgrade because 7.0 was disappointing. Then MS wins and the customer loses.
How would it be for Apple if new PowerMac and iMac G5 buyers couldn't get VPC for another 8-12 months? How are they supposed to conviced switchers? Two years without any upgrade and leaving all of Apple's G5 customers without emulation would have been far far worse. M$ did the right thing by getting something out there ASAP. It was bad enough for folks with G5 to have to wait a year.
Originally posted by Existence
Folks, M$ did the best it given the situation. Adding support for the G5 is no trivial task. Besides, it's not like VPC7 is without new features. It's a little faster (10-30%) and is Panther-ized. Although not a significant upgrade over VPC 6, for those of you still with VPC 5, it's a good upgrade.
How would it be for Apple if new PowerMac and iMac G5 buyers couldn't get VPC for another 8-12 months? How are they supposed to conviced switchers? Two years without any upgrade and leaving all of Apple's G5 customers without emulation would have been far far worse. M$ did the right thing by getting something out there ASAP. It was bad enough for folks with G5 to have to wait a year.
I'll grant you two points. A G5 version was important/essential to get out the door. And it probably wasn't a significant task. But...
You're missing the bigger picture. This is classic MS BS. And it never changes (just like Apple announcing a product and deliverying 2 months late). MS must have known things were coming together on time. Did they wake up thinking it would be done, only to find out there's another 6 months worth of work left? They announced VPC7 with Office 2004 at the beginning of the year. They even began taking orders for it. In June they decided it wasn't quite ready, but it would be soon. In August, they said it was ready to go, but they were waiting for SP2 (like we were supposed to believe that SP2 was important for this to work). Now, the story is that after all this time, all they've got available is G5 support? They couldn't even get past the 512MB limit. The question would have to be, what the hell have they've been doing?
Here's a question. What MS product am I describing?
- MS announces new product, available in a relatively short span, with a long list of new features.
- As the release date nears, MS announces that the release will be delayed, but only by a short amount of time.
- As the revised date approaches, MS announces another delay.
- As the revised date approaches again, MS announces that the software will be pared down to meet the new revised date, but that the missing new features will be added in a future release/update.
If you answered Longhorn, WinXP, Win2000, Win98, Win95, Windows NT, SQLServer 2000, Office 2000, VPC. Or any other MS product they've ever made, then you got it right!
Originally posted by Louzer
I'll grant you two points. A G5 version was important/essential to get out the door. And it probably wasn't a significant task.
Actually it was a huge task. The G5 is missing some features of the Motorola chips that had to be recreated in software.
My advice: look up ENDIAN on Google.
Originally posted by bunge
Actually it was a huge task. The G5 is missing some features of the Motorola chips that had to be recreated in software.
My advice: look up ENDIAN on Google.
Oops, it should have read 'insignificant'. Hey, that's why I was granting the person two things. And, yes, I know all about the endian thing.
But that doesn't discount the rest of my argument. This was something that should have been known ahead of time, or certainly within the last 6 months.
People give Apple crap for missing release schedules, as they do with MS. And yet, when Apple announced three months ago that the iMac G5 was going to be announced in September, then they announced it and shipped it in the same month, they cheered "Apple made a ship date right after announcing (still ignoring the fact they technically annoucned the product in June, just because they didn't show it doesn't mean it wasn't announced, we all knew it was coming, the only differnce between it and other apple delays was you didn't see a picture of the iMac until september. But I digress). Based off of that and other experience, no one here or elsewhere would have complained if MS just said "It's going to take a lot of work, and we should have G5 support in a year. We hope to add these other features, as well, but they will take a back seat to actually getting a runnable version of the software on the machines that most likely require it running the most", we would all be happy, and then saying how great it was that MS got it running. But they didn't do that. And that's why people vent. We're sitting here looking at a list of promises that were due 6 months ago, and all we get is one (albeit important) feature.
(BTW, it sounds so similar to the RealPC folks who announced an OS X version in three months, with native graphics support, and all those other wonderful bells and whistles that sounded great, only to have found out, after the leadership was ousted, that not only were they talking up their prospects, no one had even pulled out the code, let alone started working on it, when the annoucnement was made. )
******
The ever reliable Brad Oliver over at the IMG forums notes that h/w graphics acceleration with VPC and OS/X is -
"just about impossible given that the hardware is shared with OSX and would cause a device contention at the low-level needed to tie it in to VPC"
and also
"Seriously, people have been on this kick about 'hardware 3d acceleration" in PC emulators for far too long, and expectations are totally out of whack with reality. Remember, if you will, what 3dfx emulation did back in the day - not much. You could play Tomb Raider 1 at so-so speeds, and that was pretty much it - most other games performed too slowly.
The largest bottleneck will always remain the actual CPU emulation. Even for games that aren't CPU-bound on the PC, the time spent doing CPU things takes up 30% of each frame for the best cases. When you run that same game through VPC, that 30% CPU time balloons out to the point where even if the graphics rendering took up 0% of the time, most games from the past 6-7 years would still run too slowly.
And that's all assuming that you can grab control of the video card without freaking out the Mac OS, as you could with the 3dfx card (since it had a totally separate frame buffer). Modern video cards don't work like that, so device contention is a major issue"
This comes from someone who seriously knows what he's talking about.
Interestingly, 'rpg' also adds:
"it will never happen. we would all love it for our emulation needs, but looks like it's not in the stars kids. an early build had native graphics card support, and actually played quake 3 at fairly decent speeds, but tons of other games had serious compatibility errors, or just crashed. and like brad said, there really is no way to rip control of a video card away from the os x kernel, without seriously messing up the os. as I take it, they were basically passing the directx commands straight to the silicon itself. there probably would be a way to do it by creating a safety layer that saved the current OS X framebuffer, before switching it over to VPC control, and then once VPC use was over, flushing the buffer and replacing it with the OS X state. problem is, what about crashes that jump back to the os X gui, etc. just too many issues to deal with"
So I guess we shouldn't hope for any miracles soon.