Is this a joke? The Apple mouse may be high quality (and I even doubt that) and very beautiful, but who cares, many people have to buy a 3rd party mouse anyway to get some serious work done. At least you can buy a Logitech mouse right from the beginning and don't have to buy a useless Apple mouse first. And while the old Apple keyboards were simply the best (I'm typing on one right now), the new ones aren't that great anymore, for example if you don't hit the return key right in the middle, it hardly goes down. I really don't call this a high quality product.
<strong>and that's without looking for software that matches the bundled iApps</strong>
I only need iTunes. And you forgot to mention the hidden costs for the .mac membership for full functionality.
I think, this is my problem: I don't want an IBM drive in my computer, I don't want to pay for a so called "superdrive" that can burn CD-Rs at 8x (hello?), and I also don't need iMovie. I can accept that they only offer one mainboard with firewire etc. built in, but I can't accept that I can't buy a 1.25 Powermac without mouse, HD, superdrive and the OS ($7 here). And why do they sell 512MB of additional RAM for $400? This really reminds me of those cheap NY digital camera stores, where you can get cheap cameras but have to buy totally overpriced add-ons.
I think that this has been discussed many times before. I just can't believe that people still think that Apple's hardware prices are competitive (let alone speed). I don't think that Apple has to be cheaper than PC discounters (personally, the lack of flexibility is what's really bothering me). But you were saying a P4 2.8 system is about the same as a dual 1.25 (pricewise) and that's just not the case. (Not to mention that a much slower and cheaper PC processor would be enough to beat the G4 in almostst every benchmark). I don't care if it's from dell (BTW: dell is good for notebooks, not desktops) or anyone else. Apple is responsible for the clone killing, so it's up to them to compete with all PC segments, not just the super high quality one. And on a sidenote: The fact that the clones ate up Apple's market share shows that many customers aren't (or weren't) happy with Apple's marketing mix at all.
That was back then even an entry level mac cost 3000$.
I chose the IBM drive because a: it's not crappy at all, IBM drives are silent and fast, and b: it's what comes in a DP 1250.
The salary for the technician is from <a href="http://www.dataquest.ch,"; target="_blank">www.dataquest.ch,</a> at least that's what it was when I last checked in their tech shop.
Face it, a Dell similar to a DP 1250 barely costs 200$ less.
So my claim that prices would be similar is true.
and forget about a 2.8 P4 beating the Dp 1250 everywhere, really forget about that and test it yourself.
<strong>That was back then even an entry level mac cost 3000$.
I chose the IBM drive because a: it's not crappy at all, IBM drives are silent and fast, and b: it's what comes in a DP 1250.</strong><hr></blockquote>
IBM drives die very likely after 1-2 years of high (doesn't even need to be 24/7) use. They are slow (WD is fast) and they are also not silent (Seagate is). And I know they come in a DP. That's why I was complaining in the first place. At least, when you order a PC, you can choose a decent hard drive.
[quote]Originally posted by G-News:
<strong>The salary for the technician is from <a href="http://www.dataquest.ch,"; target="_blank">www.dataquest.ch,</a> at least that's what it was when I last checked in their tech shop.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Persponally, I don't give a sht about who and for what salary someone is going to put that box together. You pay a 100 dollar assembly fee at Steg and they do everything. And what exactly is your problem with Steg? You choose the high quality parts and they build the system. Easy, cheap, and with the components you like, the quality you like.
[quote]Originally posted by G-News:
<strong>Face it, a Dell similar to a DP 1250 barely costs 200$ less.
So my claim that prices would be similar is true.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Except that nobody ever mentioned dell. Maybe YOU have to face it, TigerWoods wasn't talking about dell, all he said was: " The P4 2.8 I could put together a pimped out setup for a lot less than that 1.25 G4" And then it was you who answered: "I'm happy to see your proposal of how you'd want to accomplish this". Well, that proposal has been made, high quality parts, a lot cheaper, but you just refuse to accept it...
[quote]Originally posted by G-News:
<strong>and forget about a 2.8 P4 beating the Dp 1250 everywhere, really forget about that and test it yourself.</strong><hr></blockquote>
IIRC, I said "almost everywhere". The G4 might be faster when it comes to some highly optimized single precision FP calculations, but that's about it. But I'd be very happy to be proved wrong on this.
I have nothing against steg, just that they're the cheapest reseller in switzerland, which is an unfair comparison.
Ok I should have said that you have to assemble it at a place like Dell or some other company that is comparable to Apple itself.
Btw why are you posting here, the way it seems you're about to buy a PC anyway, so what makes you post here? the fact that to you, macs are overpriced? I doubt it.
and don't chime in on the general histeria that IBM drives are bad.
I have one of the famous 75GXP drives in my old mac and have had it there for more than 2 years without the slightest problems, same goes for 2 friends of mine who bought the same drive the same week as myself...I've never had trouble.
And I'm certainly not going to take other components when trying to assemble a similar system, if I don't have to, otherwise I can stick objectivity right into my ass from the very beginning.
BTW talking about overpricedness: have you ever compared the price of a P4 2.53 today vs a month or 2 ago? 1200.- vs 250.-, same hardware...no, that must have been a typo, right.
Actually, if you combine Steg components with a dell bto desktop (no iApps) you will end up with about CHF 3400 (the PM is 5100), but you'll have to insert the DVD+RW, firewire and gigabit ethernet yourself. But enough on that. (you didn't choose the ATI 9700, did you?)
What makes me post here? It is amazing that this question always has to come up if someone mentions anything about PCs. Why would that matter anyway? Why shouldn't I be reading and posting on these boards (or allowed to do so) even IF I was planning to buy a PC? I regularly pay a visit to some UT2003 boards even though it's not available on the Mac.
BUT: I own a Mac and had many Macs before, that's what makes me post here. I also don't think that I won't buy another one, but definitely not because of the hardware. Although I like the design and some nice features (eg how easy it is to open the case), I really hate others. For example, I have a 733 quicksilver. It came with a 12x CD-R burner. I had to REPLACE it with a faster burner instead of just ADDING one, because the case wouldn't let me. So, no on-the-fly-burning. It also means, no CD-RW and DVD-ROM at the same time, if you want to watch a DVD, you have to buy a combo drive, and besides being a little more expensive, they have slow CD-R speeds. But this actually belongs to past and not current hardware as the problem is now fixed. However, the lack of flexibility still remains and as I have written above it is seriously troubling me (because I'm thinking about selling my 733 and getting a new one). And finally: Yes, I did post because of "the fact that to" me, "macs are overpriced". To obtain my dream computer, I have to buy a lot of stuff I don't want, remove and sell it on ebay and insert other things. This is not only expensive, but also very painful.
I wouldn't "chime in on the general hysteria" if I hadn't lost an IBM drive myself (PC server). I still have the original IBM drive in my Quicksilver (and a caviar). But I would never buy one again. You never know when it's going to happen, and if you're out of luck, you won't even get the drive replaced. Just take a look at IBM's current conditions...
I'm not sure what your last point (CPU prices) was meant for. On the one hand, you can definitely get a higher price for a two year old Mac on ebay than you'll get for a two year old PC, that's true. On the other hand, within a month, the price gap between the 2.8GHz P4 and the DP 1.25 will be even more dramatic, because Apple won't adjust prices. It also means that you can now buy a 2.533GHz P4 (which I still find highly competitive) for 1/3 the price of a 2.8GHz P4 (CPU only of course) and can always upgrade to a faster processor later.
my point was that the same chip cost more than 4 times more 2 months ago, than it costs today. So either it's too cheap now, or it was totaly overpriced 2 months ago. It's easy to identify teh correct answer as being the first one.
You could have added the drive externally in a cheap firewire case, would have given you on the fly burning and even the ability to use it with a PC or a new mac later... My brother has had an external burner since the beginning and he has never complained. of course now you're going to say you hate external drives and that they're more expensive and that firewire is too slow for you (although no burner could even remotely fill its bandwidth) etc etc. I agree that the old El capitan case lacked at least one 5.25", but were at MDD now and that comes with 2, and frankly 2 should be enough for 98% of all people. And the others have 2 firewire ports free to use.
And what makes you switch if not the hardware?
The software? Please?
Save your ass by telling me you're forced to some Windows platform because of your job, but in heavens name don't tell me you prefer Windows 2000 or XP to Jaguar... Oh yeah and if you're switching because of games, then this debate is over. not everybody here buys computers just to play games.
yes, i ran them all myself on all three systems under BOTH OS 9 and X.2 - same song across the board.
i used the apple sound manager/built in audio controller on all three computers, so that the testing could be consistent between the systems.
not sure what your logic settings were - perhaps you used a larger process buffer than i did, etc. - but in all of my testing (including a dual 800 - which got 16 PVs and a PB/400 which got 8) i found that a good way to figure mac/PV performance was 1 PV for every 50 Mhz of processor clock speed. by my testing, you should have gotten 10 PVs. if you want to post your settings, i'll try to match them on the 1.25 and let you know.
and, sadly, logic doesn't really use dual processors on 9 or X, so the duals do not show any gains in Logic beyond clockspeed. in fact, emagic just released logic 5.4 for X today and they have taken a decided step away from multiprocessor support.
hopefully either emagic will get dual support or apple will get faster processors soon.
The Ti 500 uses an "older" variant of the G4, the 7410 I think, that has been sen to have considerably more memory bandwidth than the later models 7445 (?).
Anyway, there were posts on this at <a href="http://www.xlr8yourmac.com,"; target="_blank">www.xlr8yourmac.com,</a> and I assume this is the same issue here.
I too think Macs are way overpriced. They use sub par hardware with huge margins plus the lack of detailed configuring just plain sucks. Why do I need a gimmicky DVD burner, why can't I buy a machine without HD, RAM, Video and CD. All components I can get for a fraction that Apple sells them for. The system down below costs 2,836.93, why the hell does it cost that much? It must be awfully expensive rent in California. If it wasn?t for the fact that I still have customers that use Macs (not for long though, they to are waking up due to the prices) I would be a total Linux and SGI(pricey too, but faster then Apple) guy.
<strong>my point was that the same chip cost more than 4 times more 2 months ago, than it costs today. So either it's too cheap now, or it was totaly overpriced 2 months ago. It's easy to identify teh correct answer as being the first one.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hmm, I'm not so sure about this. I think it's probably a fair price. There are many people who think they need the fastetst CPU available, so they'll buy a new and expensive processor even if it's not that much faster than an older and much cheaper one. I'd say they were a bit overpriced. 2.8GHz yields are steadily increasing, production, distribution etc. is getting cheaper as the volume increases, why shouldn't these processors become cheaper and cheaper? (same applies to previous CPUs)
[quote]<strong>of course now you're going to say you hate external drives and that they're more expensive and that firewire is too slow for you (although no burner could even remotely fill its bandwidth) etc etc.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Don't tell me what I'm going to say. I know that firewire isn't too slow.
[quote]<strong>I agree that the old El capitan case lacked at least one 5.25", but were at MDD now and that comes with 2, and frankly 2 should be enough for 98% of all people. And the others have 2 firewire ports free to use.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This was just an example and I said myself that this particular issue has been resolved. However, others remain, such as the slow superdrive (an example again). I'm not saying that they have to include a faster drive, they just should give you the option to remove parts you don't want. It is making a computer more expensive if it comes with things you don't want or don't need.
[quote]<strong>And what makes you switch if not the hardware? The software? Please? Save your ass by telling me you're forced to some Windows platform because of your job, but in heavens name don't tell me you prefer Windows 2000 or XP to Jaguar... Oh yeah and if you're switching because of games, then this debate is over. not everybody here buys computers just to play games.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Huh? To switch? I didn't even know that this debate has ever started. I'm not switching at all ("I also don't think that I won't buy another one" == I think I'll buy another Mac ", but definitely not because of the hardware"). It's exactly the OS that is keeping me on the Mac.
Well, I hope you 1.25 Ghz MDD G4 owners are very happy, because I've been getting around the same performance for the past 9 months. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> I also paid a whole lot less!
<strong>Yeah, I bought my ibook from them, their in Luzern. I live in zug, so I used to buy from Dataquest but their prices are too high.
Thanks for the link though. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Architronic was good and very cheap, but that was a long time ago. You could go there, have a little chat with the guy (Wicky), check out the machines, discuss things etc.
Unfortunately he earned quite some money with the shop and we all know what money will do to you... It all began with solutions for architects (hence the name), then he started the Mac shop, after that there was a Macintosh & Windows shop, now it's a PC and Apple shop (note that the order has changed), not sure what will be next. He's still cheaper than most other stores, but not as cheap as he used to be and sometimes has ridiculously high prices (eg. the iPod). Also, he'll never give you educational prices (he used to, try <a href="http://edu.letec.ch/macshop/,"; target="_blank">http://edu.letec.ch/macshop/,</a>; it's often cheaper than architronic).
<strong>Yeah, I bought my ibook from them, their in Luzern. I live in zug, so I used to buy from Dataquest but their prices are too high.
Thanks for the link though. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I went by Zug the last time I was in Switzerland, but didn't stop in the city/town. Only went to Zurich and Lucerne (damn my American spelling!) and traversed the Alps while on the train. Anything exciting there worth seeing?
<strong>Well, I hope you 1.25 Ghz MDD G4 owners are very happy, because I've been getting around the same performance for the past 9 months. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> I also paid a whole lot less!
Comments
<strong>you can bto Dell's version of "iApps" too, do it and you'll end up getting the result I got.
G-News</strong><hr></blockquote>
And who cares about the iApps? Nice, but...
<strong>
IBM 120GB HD
</strong><hr></blockquote>
You are complaining about cheap products and choose a crappy IBM hard drive?
<strong>(I'm offering you the extra price for a decent soundcard with at least 24bit in/out)</strong>
Since when do we have "decent" soundcards? Take the Rambus board and you have (surround) sound support built in.
<strong>V.92 Modem</strong>
What exactly would you use that for? [Edit: Ok, it's included in the base config, and surprise surprise, you can even remove it!!]
<strong>Pioneer DVR 104 (not available at steg)</strong>
There are plenty of other (better!) drives available (including DVD+RW, DVD-R/DVD-RAM combo drives)
<strong>WITHOUT having the hardware preinstalled by a technician with a salary of 170CHF/h</strong>
And where does that number come from?
<strong>Mouse, Keyboard (both low quality products)</strong>
Is this a joke? The Apple mouse may be high quality (and I even doubt that) and very beautiful, but who cares, many people have to buy a 3rd party mouse anyway to get some serious work done. At least you can buy a Logitech mouse right from the beginning and don't have to buy a useless Apple mouse first. And while the old Apple keyboards were simply the best (I'm typing on one right now), the new ones aren't that great anymore, for example if you don't hit the return key right in the middle, it hardly goes down. I really don't call this a high quality product.
<strong>and that's without looking for software that matches the bundled iApps</strong>
I only need iTunes. And you forgot to mention the hidden costs for the .mac membership for full functionality.
I think, this is my problem: I don't want an IBM drive in my computer, I don't want to pay for a so called "superdrive" that can burn CD-Rs at 8x (hello?), and I also don't need iMovie. I can accept that they only offer one mainboard with firewire etc. built in, but I can't accept that I can't buy a 1.25 Powermac without mouse, HD, superdrive and the OS ($7 here). And why do they sell 512MB of additional RAM for $400? This really reminds me of those cheap NY digital camera stores, where you can get cheap cameras but have to buy totally overpriced add-ons.
I think that this has been discussed many times before. I just can't believe that people still think that Apple's hardware prices are competitive (let alone speed). I don't think that Apple has to be cheaper than PC discounters (personally, the lack of flexibility is what's really bothering me). But you were saying a P4 2.8 system is about the same as a dual 1.25 (pricewise) and that's just not the case. (Not to mention that a much slower and cheaper PC processor would be enough to beat the G4 in almostst every benchmark). I don't care if it's from dell (BTW: dell is good for notebooks, not desktops) or anyone else. Apple is responsible for the clone killing, so it's up to them to compete with all PC segments, not just the super high quality one. And on a sidenote: The fact that the clones ate up Apple's market share shows that many customers aren't (or weren't) happy with Apple's marketing mix at all.
[ 10-09-2002: Message edited by: 123 ]</p>
I chose the IBM drive because a: it's not crappy at all, IBM drives are silent and fast, and b: it's what comes in a DP 1250.
The salary for the technician is from <a href="http://www.dataquest.ch,"; target="_blank">www.dataquest.ch,</a> at least that's what it was when I last checked in their tech shop.
Face it, a Dell similar to a DP 1250 barely costs 200$ less.
So my claim that prices would be similar is true.
and forget about a 2.8 P4 beating the Dp 1250 everywhere, really forget about that and test it yourself.
G-news
<strong>That was back then even an entry level mac cost 3000$.
I chose the IBM drive because a: it's not crappy at all, IBM drives are silent and fast, and b: it's what comes in a DP 1250.</strong><hr></blockquote>
IBM drives die very likely after 1-2 years of high (doesn't even need to be 24/7) use. They are slow (WD is fast) and they are also not silent (Seagate is). And I know they come in a DP. That's why I was complaining in the first place. At least, when you order a PC, you can choose a decent hard drive.
[quote]Originally posted by G-News:
<strong>The salary for the technician is from <a href="http://www.dataquest.ch,"; target="_blank">www.dataquest.ch,</a> at least that's what it was when I last checked in their tech shop.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Persponally, I don't give a sht about who and for what salary someone is going to put that box together. You pay a 100 dollar assembly fee at Steg and they do everything. And what exactly is your problem with Steg? You choose the high quality parts and they build the system. Easy, cheap, and with the components you like, the quality you like.
[quote]Originally posted by G-News:
<strong>Face it, a Dell similar to a DP 1250 barely costs 200$ less.
So my claim that prices would be similar is true.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Except that nobody ever mentioned dell. Maybe YOU have to face it, TigerWoods wasn't talking about dell, all he said was: " The P4 2.8 I could put together a pimped out setup for a lot less than that 1.25 G4" And then it was you who answered: "I'm happy to see your proposal of how you'd want to accomplish this". Well, that proposal has been made, high quality parts, a lot cheaper, but you just refuse to accept it...
[quote]Originally posted by G-News:
<strong>and forget about a 2.8 P4 beating the Dp 1250 everywhere, really forget about that and test it yourself.</strong><hr></blockquote>
IIRC, I said "almost everywhere". The G4 might be faster when it comes to some highly optimized single precision FP calculations, but that's about it. But I'd be very happy to be proved wrong on this.
I have nothing against steg, just that they're the cheapest reseller in switzerland, which is an unfair comparison.
Ok I should have said that you have to assemble it at a place like Dell or some other company that is comparable to Apple itself.
Btw why are you posting here, the way it seems you're about to buy a PC anyway, so what makes you post here? the fact that to you, macs are overpriced? I doubt it.
and don't chime in on the general histeria that IBM drives are bad.
I have one of the famous 75GXP drives in my old mac and have had it there for more than 2 years without the slightest problems, same goes for 2 friends of mine who bought the same drive the same week as myself...I've never had trouble.
And I'm certainly not going to take other components when trying to assemble a similar system, if I don't have to, otherwise I can stick objectivity right into my ass from the very beginning.
BTW talking about overpricedness: have you ever compared the price of a P4 2.53 today vs a month or 2 ago? 1200.- vs 250.-, same hardware...no, that must have been a typo, right.
G-news
here are a few logic test results for the Dual 1.25 and how it compares to the Dual 867 and PB DVI 667.
Dual 1.25 - 25 PlatinumVerbs or 98 FM-7 notes
Dual 867 - 18 PlatinumVerbs or 64 FM-7 notes
PB 667 - 14 PlatinumVerbs or 49 FM-7 notes
<hr></blockquote>
I'm curious. Did you run these yourself? In 9 or X? I have a ti500 that does 12-13 PVs in 9.
<strong>You made the proposal, not him...
...
G-news</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, if you combine Steg components with a dell bto desktop (no iApps) you will end up with about CHF 3400 (the PM is 5100), but you'll have to insert the DVD+RW, firewire and gigabit ethernet yourself. But enough on that. (you didn't choose the ATI 9700, did you?)
What makes me post here? It is amazing that this question always has to come up if someone mentions anything about PCs. Why would that matter anyway? Why shouldn't I be reading and posting on these boards (or allowed to do so) even IF I was planning to buy a PC? I regularly pay a visit to some UT2003 boards even though it's not available on the Mac.
BUT: I own a Mac and had many Macs before, that's what makes me post here. I also don't think that I won't buy another one, but definitely not because of the hardware. Although I like the design and some nice features (eg how easy it is to open the case), I really hate others. For example, I have a 733 quicksilver. It came with a 12x CD-R burner. I had to REPLACE it with a faster burner instead of just ADDING one, because the case wouldn't let me. So, no on-the-fly-burning. It also means, no CD-RW and DVD-ROM at the same time, if you want to watch a DVD, you have to buy a combo drive, and besides being a little more expensive, they have slow CD-R speeds. But this actually belongs to past and not current hardware as the problem is now fixed. However, the lack of flexibility still remains and as I have written above it is seriously troubling me (because I'm thinking about selling my 733 and getting a new one). And finally: Yes, I did post because of "the fact that to" me, "macs are overpriced". To obtain my dream computer, I have to buy a lot of stuff I don't want, remove and sell it on ebay and insert other things. This is not only expensive, but also very painful.
I wouldn't "chime in on the general hysteria" if I hadn't lost an IBM drive myself (PC server). I still have the original IBM drive in my Quicksilver (and a caviar). But I would never buy one again. You never know when it's going to happen, and if you're out of luck, you won't even get the drive replaced. Just take a look at IBM's current conditions...
I'm not sure what your last point (CPU prices) was meant for. On the one hand, you can definitely get a higher price for a two year old Mac on ebay than you'll get for a two year old PC, that's true. On the other hand, within a month, the price gap between the 2.8GHz P4 and the DP 1.25 will be even more dramatic, because Apple won't adjust prices. It also means that you can now buy a 2.533GHz P4 (which I still find highly competitive) for 1/3 the price of a 2.8GHz P4 (CPU only of course) and can always upgrade to a faster processor later.
You could have added the drive externally in a cheap firewire case, would have given you on the fly burning and even the ability to use it with a PC or a new mac later... My brother has had an external burner since the beginning and he has never complained. of course now you're going to say you hate external drives and that they're more expensive and that firewire is too slow for you (although no burner could even remotely fill its bandwidth) etc etc. I agree that the old El capitan case lacked at least one 5.25", but were at MDD now and that comes with 2, and frankly 2 should be enough for 98% of all people. And the others have 2 firewire ports free to use.
And what makes you switch if not the hardware?
The software? Please?
Save your ass by telling me you're forced to some Windows platform because of your job, but in heavens name don't tell me you prefer Windows 2000 or XP to Jaguar... Oh yeah and if you're switching because of games, then this debate is over. not everybody here buys computers just to play games.
G-news
yes, i ran them all myself on all three systems under BOTH OS 9 and X.2 - same song across the board.
i used the apple sound manager/built in audio controller on all three computers, so that the testing could be consistent between the systems.
not sure what your logic settings were - perhaps you used a larger process buffer than i did, etc. - but in all of my testing (including a dual 800 - which got 16 PVs and a PB/400 which got 8) i found that a good way to figure mac/PV performance was 1 PV for every 50 Mhz of processor clock speed. by my testing, you should have gotten 10 PVs. if you want to post your settings, i'll try to match them on the 1.25 and let you know.
and, sadly, logic doesn't really use dual processors on 9 or X, so the duals do not show any gains in Logic beyond clockspeed. in fact, emagic just released logic 5.4 for X today and they have taken a decided step away from multiprocessor support.
hopefully either emagic will get dual support or apple will get faster processors soon.
The Ti 500 uses an "older" variant of the G4, the 7410 I think, that has been sen to have considerably more memory bandwidth than the later models 7445 (?).
Anyway, there were posts on this at <a href="http://www.xlr8yourmac.com,"; target="_blank">www.xlr8yourmac.com,</a> and I assume this is the same issue here.
G-news
Zwei 1GHz PowerPC G4
256KB L2 Cache
& 1MB L3 Cache pro Prozessor
167MHz Systembus
256MB PC2700 DDR RAM
80GB Ultra-ATA-Laufwerk
DVD-R/CD-RW-Laufwerk
ATI Radeon 9000 Pro
internes 56K Modem
check the prices there and save a few hundred bucks.
G-news
Thanks for the link though.
<strong>my point was that the same chip cost more than 4 times more 2 months ago, than it costs today. So either it's too cheap now, or it was totaly overpriced 2 months ago. It's easy to identify teh correct answer as being the first one.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hmm, I'm not so sure about this. I think it's probably a fair price. There are many people who think they need the fastetst CPU available, so they'll buy a new and expensive processor even if it's not that much faster than an older and much cheaper one. I'd say they were a bit overpriced. 2.8GHz yields are steadily increasing, production, distribution etc. is getting cheaper as the volume increases, why shouldn't these processors become cheaper and cheaper? (same applies to previous CPUs)
[quote]<strong>of course now you're going to say you hate external drives and that they're more expensive and that firewire is too slow for you (although no burner could even remotely fill its bandwidth) etc etc.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Don't tell me what I'm going to say. I know that firewire isn't too slow.
[quote]<strong>I agree that the old El capitan case lacked at least one 5.25", but were at MDD now and that comes with 2, and frankly 2 should be enough for 98% of all people. And the others have 2 firewire ports free to use.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This was just an example and I said myself that this particular issue has been resolved. However, others remain, such as the slow superdrive (an example again). I'm not saying that they have to include a faster drive, they just should give you the option to remove parts you don't want. It is making a computer more expensive if it comes with things you don't want or don't need.
[quote]<strong>And what makes you switch if not the hardware? The software? Please? Save your ass by telling me you're forced to some Windows platform because of your job, but in heavens name don't tell me you prefer Windows 2000 or XP to Jaguar... Oh yeah and if you're switching because of games, then this debate is over. not everybody here buys computers just to play games.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Huh? To switch? I didn't even know that this debate has ever started. I'm not switching at all ("I also don't think that I won't buy another one" == I think I'll buy another Mac ", but definitely not because of the hardware"). It's exactly the OS that is keeping me on the Mac.
[ 10-10-2002: Message edited by: TigerWoods99 ]</p>
<strong>Yeah, I bought my ibook from them, their in Luzern. I live in zug, so I used to buy from Dataquest but their prices are too high.
Thanks for the link though.
Architronic was good and very cheap, but that was a long time ago. You could go there, have a little chat with the guy (Wicky), check out the machines, discuss things etc.
Unfortunately he earned quite some money with the shop and we all know what money will do to you... It all began with solutions for architects (hence the name), then he started the Mac shop, after that there was a Macintosh & Windows shop, now it's a PC and Apple shop (note that the order has changed), not sure what will be next. He's still cheaper than most other stores, but not as cheap as he used to be and sometimes has ridiculously high prices (eg. the iPod). Also, he'll never give you educational prices (he used to, try <a href="http://edu.letec.ch/macshop/,"; target="_blank">http://edu.letec.ch/macshop/,</a>; it's often cheaper than architronic).
<strong>Yeah, I bought my ibook from them, their in Luzern. I live in zug, so I used to buy from Dataquest but their prices are too high.
Thanks for the link though.
I went by Zug the last time I was in Switzerland, but didn't stop in the city/town. Only went to Zurich and Lucerne (damn my American spelling!) and traversed the Alps while on the train. Anything exciting there worth seeing?
<strong>Well, I hope you 1.25 Ghz MDD G4 owners are very happy, because I've been getting around the same performance for the past 9 months. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> I also paid a whole lot less!
[ 10-10-2002: Message edited by: TigerWoods99 ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, their machines are 20% faster than yours. It's noticable.
[ 10-10-2002: Message edited by: Kecksy ]</p>