Marc Andreesen was the man responsible for Netscape the webbrowser. He is also credited with the decision to have Netscape break the standardized software behaviour that single-click was meant for selecting something and double-click was meant for opening it. So today when we surf the web we use single click to open links instead of double-click. Which is quite the opposite of what we use locally on computers, where for instance in the Finder, a file is selected with single-click and opened with double-click.
A quick search of the forums brings up this explanation by Kickaha, which is more thurough (and hateful ) than mine:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
Yeah, Netscape screwed up UI design for the forseeable future.
Single-clicking on URL links was *NOT* the original model. Berners-Lee had single-click = select, double-click = follow (open), *JUST LIKE THE FINDER* (and Windows, and NeXT (which the web was developed on), and every other freaking system out there).
Andreesen, the little punk-ass, decided that two clicks was wasteful, and made it a single click, thereby *REQUIRING* a right-click and contextual menu to actually *do* anything with the link, since there's no way to *select* it to then perform an *action* on it.
Then, after everyone is used to the idiotic single-click-for-everything-method, MS tries to hoist it back into the desktop, with disastrous results. "Do I single-click? Do I double-click?" Heck, I'm not even happy with the Dock for this reason.
Way to think things through, asswipe.
Yes, I think there's a special place in UI design hell for Marc. Idiot.
Marc Andreesen was the man responsible for Netscape the webbrowser. He is also credited with the decision to have Netscape break the standardized software behaviour that single-click was meant for selecting something and double-click was meant for opening it. So today when we surf the web we use single click to open links instead of double-click. Which is quite the opposite of what we use locally on computers, where for instance in the Finder, a file is selected with single-click and opened with double-click.
Funky. YEt Simple finder has it down pat. So does Windows single click option. I want that, it makes useing the computer so much faster. I would hate to have to double click likns on the web,shesh I already have to map my right click to command click so I can open the link in a different tab now so I can avoid window hell.
Right now I have my finder mouse mapped to double click with the right button but it should not be that. I need that for right clicking menus out, so NOW I have to hold down the control key for the right click :P and it takes memory power to right click .... arrrgggg it is ONE dam option I just want one silly option... Please someone help hack it out of simple finder !
You do that, and suddenly the only way you can do ANYTHING except open a file is through a right click. Period.
That's just stupid. (The UI behaviour, not you.)
Simple Finder is for kiosks and kindergartens, not real world situations.
How so ? to select it would just be highlight it like a hovering over it like the web, OR use laso select. This way you still have the option to right click. Besides I just want it as a feature not a defualt. Like if I feel like makeing my entire screen black and white I can, you dont have to. So that is all I want, I am sure someone could figure out a way to get it to work.
My company had the genial idea to transfer our CM system to a browser based one. The reason given was changes could be implemented much faster than in a program. Of course they discovered some problems with exactly that so nothing was ever changed from the barely finished first version. And all the drawbacks as downtime, slow reaction (serving pages to the client and drawing the actual page is much slower than just transporting the user specific information to a stationary program), keeping things separate (not funny when a pop up window is taking over your CM system)
I mean, delegating a mission critical application to the web. Are they actually trying to avoid NOT getting into trouble
Well at least our technical and billing system are real programs. But when you need to take information (customer number, telephone number, IMEI number, Sim card number etc.) from the CM system over to the other systems the only way to do so is to copy text that is also links. If I ever meet woever made that genial system I am gonna thank him with my fist. In this situation Single-click-select would be perfect
Another thing is that the same information in the billing and technical system is non selectable. So to reuse the information you have to write it all down.
How so ? to select it would just be highlight it like a hovering over it like the web,
And that selects *what* exactly on the web? Nada. You get tooltips maybe. Whoo.
Quote:
OR use laso select.
Oh that's a joke, right? Please tell me you're kidding. Can you imagine trying to drag-select everything, all the time? Yeah, it'd work okay in icon view (until five minutes passed and it got annoying), but list view? Column view? No way in heck.
Quote:
This way you still have the option to right click. Besides I just want it as a feature not a defualt. Like if I feel like makeing my entire screen black and white I can, you dont have to. So that is all I want, I am sure someone could figure out a way to get it to work.
Well, knock yourself out, it ranks up there with rubber crutches for usability.
Question: why not just use Simple Finder if you think it's so swift a UI behaviour?
Question: why not just use Simple Finder if you think it's so swift a UI behaviour? [/B]
Because it is simple finder, that means I have no power over the interface like putting stuf on the desktop or moving anything. It is simple filnder.
It is an option that is all. Whatever I take it no one has or will make this, score another to windows for user control
Oh and you don't double cllick the dock item you just press it. Same goes for buttons in the tool bar and buttons everywhere, infact the fact that ONLY place selecting and opening files and folders is in the finder. I would say from that the finder is behind the times of speed and usability.
Because it is simple finder, that means I have no power over the interface like putting stuf on the desktop or moving anything. It is simple filnder.
It is an option that is all. Whatever I take it no one has or will make this, score another to windows for user control
Well in that case, Motif is the world's most advanced UI... :P (Hint: it's considered an example of what not to do... but boy, it sure had the most options.)
Quote:
Oh and you don't double cllick the dock item you just press it. Same goes for buttons in the tool bar and buttons everywhere, infact the fact that ONLY place selecting and opening files and folders is in the finder. I would say from that the finder is behind the times of speed and usability.
??? I take it you're not a UI person. Files are objects. Objects are to be manipulated. Buttons are controls. They are to be pressed. They do one thing, and one thing only. Objects can be handled in a multitude of ways.
Button= one click | Icon = one click | File = two clicks... eh come again, seems silly.
See my post above that. UI 101. Manipulable objects need to be selectable. Controls do not. A file icon is a manipulable object. A button is not. That's why a button looks different. Controls are single purpose, and have single action. *click* Objects can be manipulated in a multitude of ways, and need to be selected first, so then you can select an action via a menu item or keystroke. Double-clicking is just a shortcut for 'do the most common operation', which in the case of a file is opening it.
A web link is an object - you can follow it, copy it, drag it, all sorts of things. Hence, a single click to select, and a double-click to perform the most common task (follow) is appropriate. Andreessen f*cked it up big time on that one, and screwed it up for everyone for years. Hence, your confusion.
See my post above that. UI 101. Manipulable objects need to be selectable. Controls do not. A file icon is a manipulable object. A button is not. That's why a button looks different. Controls are single purpose, and have single action. *click* Objects can be manipulated in a multitude of ways, and need to be selected first, so then you can select an action via a menu item or keystroke. Double-clicking is just a shortcut for 'do the most common operation', which in the case of a file is opening it.
A web link is an object - you can follow it, copy it, drag it, all sorts of things. Hence, a single click to select, and a double-click to perform the most common task (follow) is appropriate. Andreessen f*cked it up big time on that one, and screwed it up for everyone for years. Hence, your confusion.
Nope, works great in windows, Nuff said. :P Dont care what an object is or a file or a button all I know is cliking twice is hard on the hand after hours of use. Half of that is reduced with one stupid click. And perfect for tablet use.
Says *who*? All I've heard about MS's attempt at single-clicking the entire UI is "Please god make it go away." I have yet to meet a single person that found it useful. It's an interesting toy for a few minutes, but again, it's only useful in situations where you've reduced the behaviour of objects to a single choice. Kiosks are one such arena.
Quote:
Dont care what an object is or a file or a button
Too bad. Good thing someone designing your UI does.
Quote:
all I know is cliking twice is hard on the hand after hours of use. Half of that is reduced with one stupid click. And perfect for tablet use.
Actually, it's horrendous for tablet use... there is NO right click, which is the workaround for the broken selection model with single-click activation. Think it through.
Sorry, but single-click-everything is simply one of the stupidest UI ideas to come down the pipe in the last 30 years.
The only reason Simple Finder can get away with it is that it reduces files and applications to *TA-DA*!... buttons. You can do *ONE THING* with them, open them. Hence, single clicking works. I don't know about you, but I want to be able to do other things with my files. Ergo, single-click is a bad idea.
The only reason Simple Finder can get away with it is that it reduces files and applications to *TA-DA*!... buttons. You can do *ONE THING* with them, open them. Hence, single clicking works. I don't know about you, but I want to be able to do other things with my files. Ergo, single-click is a bad idea.
Ha haheh this is fun, But the fact is I want fast easy access to my stupid files and one less click is super fast for me. And can always use apples action menu button for the right click stuff. :P
Comments
Originally posted by Kickaha
DAMN YOU MARC ANDREESSEN!
sure....
Originally posted by Kickaha
DAMN YOU MARC ANDREESSEN!
You're right though! Netscape may have been instrumental in the acceptance of the internet but it sure did its fair share of damage aswell.
Originally posted by Kickaha
Yeah, Netscape screwed up UI design for the forseeable future.
Single-clicking on URL links was *NOT* the original model. Berners-Lee had single-click = select, double-click = follow (open), *JUST LIKE THE FINDER* (and Windows, and NeXT (which the web was developed on), and every other freaking system out there).
Andreesen, the little punk-ass, decided that two clicks was wasteful, and made it a single click, thereby *REQUIRING* a right-click and contextual menu to actually *do* anything with the link, since there's no way to *select* it to then perform an *action* on it.
Then, after everyone is used to the idiotic single-click-for-everything-method, MS tries to hoist it back into the desktop, with disastrous results. "Do I single-click? Do I double-click?" Heck, I'm not even happy with the Dock for this reason.
Way to think things through, asswipe.
Yes, I think there's a special place in UI design hell for Marc. Idiot.
Originally posted by Gavriel
Marc Andreesen was the man responsible for Netscape the webbrowser. He is also credited with the decision to have Netscape break the standardized software behaviour that single-click was meant for selecting something and double-click was meant for opening it. So today when we surf the web we use single click to open links instead of double-click. Which is quite the opposite of what we use locally on computers, where for instance in the Finder, a file is selected with single-click and opened with double-click.
Funky. YEt Simple finder has it down pat. So does Windows single click option. I want that, it makes useing the computer so much faster. I would hate to have to double click likns on the web,shesh I already have to map my right click to command click so I can open the link in a different tab now so I can avoid window hell.
Right now I have my finder mouse mapped to double click with the right button but it should not be that. I need that for right clicking menus out, so NOW I have to hold down the control key for the right click :P and it takes memory power to right click .... arrrgggg it is ONE dam option I just want one silly option... Please someone help hack it out of simple finder !
That's just stupid. (The UI behaviour, not you.)
Simple Finder is for kiosks and kindergartens, not real world situations.
Originally posted by Kickaha
You do that, and suddenly the only way you can do ANYTHING except open a file is through a right click. Period.
That's just stupid. (The UI behaviour, not you.)
Simple Finder is for kiosks and kindergartens, not real world situations.
How so ? to select it would just be highlight it like a hovering over it like the web, OR use laso select. This way you still have the option to right click. Besides I just want it as a feature not a defualt. Like if I feel like makeing my entire screen black and white I can, you dont have to. So that is all I want, I am sure someone could figure out a way to get it to work.
I mean, delegating a mission critical application to the web. Are they actually trying to avoid NOT getting into trouble
Well at least our technical and billing system are real programs. But when you need to take information (customer number, telephone number, IMEI number, Sim card number etc.) from the CM system over to the other systems the only way to do so is to copy text that is also links. If I ever meet woever made that genial system I am gonna thank him with my fist. In this situation Single-click-select would be perfect
Another thing is that the same information in the billing and technical system is non selectable. So to reuse the information you have to write it all down.
Originally posted by tripdragon
How so ? to select it would just be highlight it like a hovering over it like the web,
And that selects *what* exactly on the web? Nada. You get tooltips maybe. Whoo.
OR use laso select.
Oh that's a joke, right? Please tell me you're kidding. Can you imagine trying to drag-select everything, all the time? Yeah, it'd work okay in icon view (until five minutes passed and it got annoying), but list view? Column view? No way in heck.
This way you still have the option to right click. Besides I just want it as a feature not a defualt. Like if I feel like makeing my entire screen black and white I can, you dont have to. So that is all I want, I am sure someone could figure out a way to get it to work.
Well, knock yourself out, it ranks up there with rubber crutches for usability.
Question: why not just use Simple Finder if you think it's so swift a UI behaviour?
Originally posted by Kickaha
Question: why not just use Simple Finder if you think it's so swift a UI behaviour? [/B]
Because it is simple finder, that means I have no power over the interface like putting stuf on the desktop or moving anything. It is simple filnder.
It is an option that is all. Whatever I take it no one has or will make this, score another to windows for user control
Oh and you don't double cllick the dock item you just press it. Same goes for buttons in the tool bar and buttons everywhere, infact the fact that ONLY place selecting and opening files and folders is in the finder. I would say from that the finder is behind the times of speed and usability.
Originally posted by tripdragon
Because it is simple finder, that means I have no power over the interface like putting stuf on the desktop or moving anything. It is simple filnder.
It is an option that is all. Whatever I take it no one has or will make this, score another to windows for user control
Well in that case, Motif is the world's most advanced UI... :P (Hint: it's considered an example of what not to do... but boy, it sure had the most options.)
Oh and you don't double cllick the dock item you just press it. Same goes for buttons in the tool bar and buttons everywhere, infact the fact that ONLY place selecting and opening files and folders is in the finder. I would say from that the finder is behind the times of speed and usability.
??? I take it you're not a UI person. Files are objects. Objects are to be manipulated. Buttons are controls. They are to be pressed. They do one thing, and one thing only. Objects can be handled in a multitude of ways.
Originally posted by tchwojko
Button != Icon != File
Button= one click | Icon = one click | File = two clicks... eh come again, seems silly.
Originally posted by tripdragon
Button= one click | Icon = one click | File = two clicks... eh come again, seems silly.
See my post above that. UI 101. Manipulable objects need to be selectable. Controls do not. A file icon is a manipulable object. A button is not. That's why a button looks different. Controls are single purpose, and have single action. *click* Objects can be manipulated in a multitude of ways, and need to be selected first, so then you can select an action via a menu item or keystroke. Double-clicking is just a shortcut for 'do the most common operation', which in the case of a file is opening it.
A web link is an object - you can follow it, copy it, drag it, all sorts of things. Hence, a single click to select, and a double-click to perform the most common task (follow) is appropriate. Andreessen f*cked it up big time on that one, and screwed it up for everyone for years. Hence, your confusion.
Originally posted by Kickaha
See my post above that. UI 101. Manipulable objects need to be selectable. Controls do not. A file icon is a manipulable object. A button is not. That's why a button looks different. Controls are single purpose, and have single action. *click* Objects can be manipulated in a multitude of ways, and need to be selected first, so then you can select an action via a menu item or keystroke. Double-clicking is just a shortcut for 'do the most common operation', which in the case of a file is opening it.
A web link is an object - you can follow it, copy it, drag it, all sorts of things. Hence, a single click to select, and a double-click to perform the most common task (follow) is appropriate. Andreessen f*cked it up big time on that one, and screwed it up for everyone for years. Hence, your confusion.
Nope, works great in windows, Nuff said. :P Dont care what an object is or a file or a button all I know is cliking twice is hard on the hand after hours of use. Half of that is reduced with one stupid click. And perfect for tablet use.
Originally posted by tripdragon
Nope, works great in windows, Nuff said. :P
Says *who*? All I've heard about MS's attempt at single-clicking the entire UI is "Please god make it go away." I have yet to meet a single person that found it useful. It's an interesting toy for a few minutes, but again, it's only useful in situations where you've reduced the behaviour of objects to a single choice. Kiosks are one such arena.
Dont care what an object is or a file or a button
Too bad. Good thing someone designing your UI does.
all I know is cliking twice is hard on the hand after hours of use. Half of that is reduced with one stupid click. And perfect for tablet use.
Actually, it's horrendous for tablet use... there is NO right click, which is the workaround for the broken selection model with single-click activation. Think it through.
Sorry, but single-click-everything is simply one of the stupidest UI ideas to come down the pipe in the last 30 years.
The only reason Simple Finder can get away with it is that it reduces files and applications to *TA-DA*!... buttons. You can do *ONE THING* with them, open them. Hence, single clicking works. I don't know about you, but I want to be able to do other things with my files. Ergo, single-click is a bad idea.
Originally posted by Kickaha
Says *who*?
ME
Originally posted by Kickaha
The only reason Simple Finder can get away with it is that it reduces files and applications to *TA-DA*!... buttons. You can do *ONE THING* with them, open them. Hence, single clicking works. I don't know about you, but I want to be able to do other things with my files. Ergo, single-click is a bad idea.
Ha haheh this is fun, But the fact is I want fast easy access to my stupid files and one less click is super fast for me. And can always use apples action menu button for the right click stuff. :P