Emig647, there are plenty of number crunchers on these forums that can tell you everything you need to know about the difference in the 1.25 GHz PB and the one you want. As for the videocard, I can't tell you what model number it is, and it doesn't matter to me anyway because it's all built in and can't be switched out anyway, this laptop is doomed to be what it is right now. I have one GB of RAM in it. I'd have more if they didn't charge a arm and a leg for 1GB sticks of ram for a PB. Lots of people own older PB's and they'll tell you that they love them and that there's nothing wrong with them. Of course, they don't hold them to the same standards I hold mine to.
As it is, I doubt I'll ever buy another PB because this one has shown me that it's all about what a laptop looks like for Apple, rather than what a laptop actually performs like. What's the point of owning a ferrari if you put a golfcart engine in it? Sure, it looks great, and will eventually (provided you're far more patient than I am) get you to wherever you want to go, but it's certainly underwhelming in performance, just like my 1.25 GHz PB.
As for PowerMac's, I am going overseas soon to a place I'm going to be for a rather long time and I assure you, there isn't an Apple store there. So I'm going to have to get my Mom to buy one when the new update comes out so I can have one when I'm over there. It just sucks that it takes so long for Apple to roll these things out.
Well you just 100% talked me out of buying a powerbook. Now I'm on the bandwagon for a g5 powermac.
Your machine has a ati 9600... which isn't much slower than a 9700 in the ones today. So basically the only difference between yours and todays is a 5400rpm drive and a 256bit graphics card... and a little speed bump in cpu... being that you have 1 gig of ram I am NOT going to buy one now.
As far as apple having long rollout times, I think its ibm's fault... not being able to produce high yields of faster processors. I think it will happen eventually, when better processes are formed... but until then we'll have to bear with these horrible turn around times.
Since I don't have a mac, I'm going to get a mac mini to hold me over till the new powermacs come out.
Even if 3ghz is the upgrade speed I still don't see Jobs announcing the powermacs at wwdc. It would still be a minor upgrade even if they did add Hypertransport2, PC4200 DDR2, PCI-Express, new case.
This I disagree on a bit. Lets face it Hypertransport2, PCI express, DDR2 are all things that impact the performance of the machine. Well maybe not DDR2, but bandwidth can be very important to developers.
It is pretty much a given that Apple has to support PCI-Express soon if they expect to be taken seriously by developers. It is either that or they have to deliver new technology for GPU interfacing. Developer will be very interested in that because it will shw them that there is a future on the platform. Right now the PowerMac is a dead end!
Quote:
If all of this came in the new powermac it still wouldn't be significant enough for the developers. You MUST remember this IS a Developer show, not a consumer show. Announcing at other shows would be much better publicity. The products at WWDC must intrigue developers... the g5 was introduced there because it introduced 64bit programming to the mac.
While developers are indeed interested in things that normal users are not, they still have to believe in the platform. Beyond that enough new software technology is already in the works that the developer meeting will be very interesting. In fact I suspect that the venues will be packed.
Quote:
Just my opinion. I think we're at least a year away from a MAJOR upgrade... which will be dual core.
Well Apple can't wait a year for dual core technology, by that time AMD will be shipping mother boards supporting 8 cores and 4 cores cheap. As to the PowerMac upgrade, I suspect it will come just a bit before WWDC. The reason being that WWDC will focus on the latest OS/X release. Further I expect that new mac to support dual cores and SMT in some manner.
I don't think OS X will be the major focus of the next WWDC because it was last year. They had HUGE tapestries hanging in the lobbies... almost every session had to do with tiger's new abilities, if they focused on Tiger again then it would be a complete repeat of last years WWDC, something that no one is going to pay 1500 again to go see.
Murk, It would be far better to hear that Antares chips were already in Apple's hands and running down the assembly lines. Who wants to bet that the computers will be late yet again?
Everyone seems to think WWDC is a place for new product rollouts... Well developers don't pay 1500 a ticket to see steve jobs announce a few new products. They pay to get trained, very rigorous training in 5-6 days time. Every session last year was focused on Tiger development... If they do that again this year then it would be a complete waste.
Just because they don't announce something at WWDC doesn't mean that can't be the focus... IE PCI-Express and how to take advantage of it. IE iPod SDK... (just a thought). IE Core Technologies. There could be hundreds of things apple can focus WWDC on without being redundant (spelling is bad I know).
Either way, I'm sure they will have sessions on parts of tiger, but it won't be as stressed as last year. It seemed every single session I went to for development had some ties with tiger. It won't be this intense this year.
Perhaps apple doesn't even know what they are going to talk about this year... it could be in the plans right now.
I still fail to see why PCI-E is a MUST HAVE right now... or 6 months down the road. Its like comparing AGP 4x to AGP 8x at this point. Since no apps take advantage of the dual communications
Everyone seems to think WWDC is a place for new product rollouts... Well developers don't pay 1500 a ticket to see steve jobs announce a few new products. They pay to get trained.
I cut it off there, but it's perfectly put.
Even though they all pay for the training I think Apple tries to announce stuff there as kind of a bonus to developers. Keynotes are cool as h3ll.
Even though they all pay for the training I think Apple tries to announce stuff there as kind of a bonus to developers. Keynotes are cool as h3ll.
WWDC has been the place to professional products announcements for the last 3 years or more (PM G5, Powerbooks, displays,etc.). Is perfectly acceptable to expect that to happen again. Apple every 6 months or less use these stages to announce new stuff. (MWSF, WWDC and Paris Expo). So why not now?
I still fail to see why PCI-E is a MUST HAVE right now... or 6 months down the road. Its like comparing AGP 4x to AGP 8x at this point. Since no apps take advantage of the dual communications
exactly. How much real-world difference will pci-e make immediately?
It isn't so much that pci-e isn't relevant today, it's the fact that it's a significant change in video that will shape your purchasing decisions well into the future. If you have a great and powerful Power Mac and just want to upgrade to a new videocard it sure would be nice if the video cards offered were compatible with your PM. If AGP is out in regard to PC's in general I don't see ATI and NVIDIA keeping them around much longer, I buy things based upon "possible" needs in the future. We don't know what goodies Apple has in store for us five to seven years down the road, but in most cases, the PM you purchase today, will still be on your desk then. So supporting changes in architecture are important. I have a FW800 port on my PB because I thought that someday it's possible FW400 could shuffle off it's mortal coil, so-to-speak, and who knows, that could have happened faster than it seems to be going. When I get a new PM, it's got to be a speed demon. I don't care how they make it a speed demon. But it must be a speed demon. And while the current dual 2.0's are fun to play with and I never noticed any lag time, who's to say that AGP videocards will even be offered five years from now? Therefore, I wait for the new releases that are taking way too long to get here.
exactly. How much real-world difference will pci-e make immediately?
Not everyone buys a new PM every year. So the question is what will be the difference in a year or two. I got a fw800 device 1&1/2 years after I bought a fw800 mac.
We had the very same discussion when AGP came out. Ask those with a PCI mobo how happy they were to buy a Radeon 7000 PCI at the price of a Radeon 8500 AGP.
I wasn't
And you don't think the same will happen with AGP/PCI-E?
I'll bite that in 2+ years it will be hard to get an AGP card that is modern... but before that time span I dont' see any significance to the upgrade cycle for a graphics card anyways.
I'll bite that in 2+ years it will be hard to get an AGP card that is modern... but before that time span I dont' see any significance to the upgrade cycle for a graphics card anyways.
But I don't think anyone is going to be making any new AGP cards aside from what they may have from leftover parts/stock.
Being that all major application developers are aware of PCI-E, (and SLI) I think (I would hope) they are gearing up their applications for it where they can.
Every new PC is going to be shipping with PCI-E shortly, if they all are not already. By the look of all new motherboards, and PC's, manufacturers are saying PCI-E is ready now.
PC dominance is where trends are being set now a days, and they are all ready for PCI-E. That is what tells all (intelligent) major developers where they need to update their efforts. I'm sure it's already being worked on by all major application developers.
It would be a mistake to watch another PowerMac revision roll out without PCI-E. This system would be passed on by the majority of PowerMac users, and new buyers for sure.
Putting only an AGP slot in a PowerMac revision is like soldering the graphics card to it's motherboard. That machine would have no possible future. I think that would be a huge mistake on Apples part.
Graphics card manufacturers aren't going to drop AGP card development in the next 2 years... there are WAY too many computers out there with AGP right now. That would be a mistake on Nvidia's and ATI's parts. There is such a large market for people that will have computers for the next 2-3 years with those AGP slots. If they don't develop further they are losing horrible amounts of cash.
So saying that having agp in the next revision is like having a soldered graphics card... its not. There will be new agp cards released in the next 1-2 years for macs as well as PCs.
Also not all pc manufacturers are shipping with PCI-E, infact a smaller percentage are than not. Go look at HP, Dell, Gateway etc websites. Look at the configs on their desktops... 8 out of 10 are still agp based. This doesn't mean this won't change in the next few months, i'm sure it will. But for one... AMD boards are JUST NOW getting PCI-Express slots on them. Intel was the creator of PCI-E.. or not? Maybe they were just the first to adopt it. But they have had PCI-E intel boards for about 3-4 months now. NOt a very long time at all.
The technology is still young, there was a time when agp was young and pci was still being used... we're at the same time between agp and pci-e. Just as pci cards were made for a few years following agp, agp cards will be made for a few years following pci-e.
Actually the last update cycle took 11 months. The machines were announced (the original g5) the first week of july (at wwdc) and updated last year (rev b g5) the first week of june... almost exactly 11 months. Them adding a dual 1.8 to the line up 4 months into the announcement doesn't make it a refresh.
Or June 2004, November 2004, June 2003, January 2003, August 2002, and January 2002. Where did you get 11 months? Maybe between major revisions but, this wait has been 8 months without even a minor update. I think that WWDC will be muy major!
OK I can read now, you are questioning the 11/2003 announcement of the 1.8. I can buy that.
Comments
As it is, I doubt I'll ever buy another PB because this one has shown me that it's all about what a laptop looks like for Apple, rather than what a laptop actually performs like. What's the point of owning a ferrari if you put a golfcart engine in it? Sure, it looks great, and will eventually (provided you're far more patient than I am) get you to wherever you want to go, but it's certainly underwhelming in performance, just like my 1.25 GHz PB.
As for PowerMac's, I am going overseas soon to a place I'm going to be for a rather long time and I assure you, there isn't an Apple store there. So I'm going to have to get my Mom to buy one when the new update comes out so I can have one when I'm over there. It just sucks that it takes so long for Apple to roll these things out.
Your machine has a ati 9600... which isn't much slower than a 9700 in the ones today. So basically the only difference between yours and todays is a 5400rpm drive and a 256bit graphics card... and a little speed bump in cpu... being that you have 1 gig of ram I am NOT going to buy one now.
As far as apple having long rollout times, I think its ibm's fault... not being able to produce high yields of faster processors. I think it will happen eventually, when better processes are formed... but until then we'll have to bear with these horrible turn around times.
Since I don't have a mac, I'm going to get a mac mini to hold me over till the new powermacs come out.
Originally posted by emig647
Even if 3ghz is the upgrade speed I still don't see Jobs announcing the powermacs at wwdc. It would still be a minor upgrade even if they did add Hypertransport2, PC4200 DDR2, PCI-Express, new case.
This I disagree on a bit. Lets face it Hypertransport2, PCI express, DDR2 are all things that impact the performance of the machine. Well maybe not DDR2, but bandwidth can be very important to developers.
It is pretty much a given that Apple has to support PCI-Express soon if they expect to be taken seriously by developers. It is either that or they have to deliver new technology for GPU interfacing. Developer will be very interested in that because it will shw them that there is a future on the platform. Right now the PowerMac is a dead end!
If all of this came in the new powermac it still wouldn't be significant enough for the developers. You MUST remember this IS a Developer show, not a consumer show. Announcing at other shows would be much better publicity. The products at WWDC must intrigue developers... the g5 was introduced there because it introduced 64bit programming to the mac.
While developers are indeed interested in things that normal users are not, they still have to believe in the platform. Beyond that enough new software technology is already in the works that the developer meeting will be very interesting. In fact I suspect that the venues will be packed.
Just my opinion. I think we're at least a year away from a MAJOR upgrade... which will be dual core.
Well Apple can't wait a year for dual core technology, by that time AMD will be shipping mother boards supporting 8 cores and 4 cores cheap. As to the PowerMac upgrade, I suspect it will come just a bit before WWDC. The reason being that WWDC will focus on the latest OS/X release. Further I expect that new mac to support dual cores and SMT in some manner.
Dave
I don't think OS X will be the major focus of the next WWDC because it was last year. They had HUGE tapestries hanging in the lobbies... almost every session had to do with tiger's new abilities, if they focused on Tiger again then it would be a complete repeat of last years WWDC, something that no one is going to pay 1500 again to go see.
Originally posted by emig647
.
Just my opinion. I think we're at least a year away from a MAJOR upgrade... which will be dual core.
Well, Morpheus thinks Antares is ready to roll.
I don't think OS X will be the major focus of the next WWDC because it was last year
What will the focus be? You are saying no Powerbook G5, no Powermac, no OS X.
Just because they don't announce something at WWDC doesn't mean that can't be the focus... IE PCI-Express and how to take advantage of it. IE iPod SDK... (just a thought). IE Core Technologies. There could be hundreds of things apple can focus WWDC on without being redundant (spelling is bad I know).
Either way, I'm sure they will have sessions on parts of tiger, but it won't be as stressed as last year. It seemed every single session I went to for development had some ties with tiger. It won't be this intense this year.
Perhaps apple doesn't even know what they are going to talk about this year... it could be in the plans right now.
Right now the PowerMac is a dead end!
A lot of people don't want to buy a PM because they are waiting for PCI-E replacing AGP. 3GHz is just a nice-to-have. PCI-E is a must-have!
Well Apple can't wait a year for dual core technology, by that time AMD will be shipping mother boards supporting 8 cores and 4 cores cheap.!
Cheap as Apple defines cheap or cheap as the PC market defines cheap?
I think my cheap is not your cheap
Originally posted by emig647
Everyone seems to think WWDC is a place for new product rollouts... Well developers don't pay 1500 a ticket to see steve jobs announce a few new products. They pay to get trained.
I cut it off there, but it's perfectly put.
Even though they all pay for the training I think Apple tries to announce stuff there as kind of a bonus to developers. Keynotes are cool as h3ll.
Originally posted by onlooker
I cut it off there, but it's perfectly put.
Even though they all pay for the training I think Apple tries to announce stuff there as kind of a bonus to developers. Keynotes are cool as h3ll.
WWDC has been the place to professional products announcements for the last 3 years or more (PM G5, Powerbooks, displays,etc.). Is perfectly acceptable to expect that to happen again. Apple every 6 months or less use these stages to announce new stuff. (MWSF, WWDC and Paris Expo). So why not now?
Originally posted by emig647
I still fail to see why PCI-E is a MUST HAVE right now... or 6 months down the road. Its like comparing AGP 4x to AGP 8x at this point. Since no apps take advantage of the dual communications
exactly. How much real-world difference will pci-e make immediately?
Originally posted by murk
Well, Morpheus thinks Antares is ready to roll.
What are you talking about
Originally posted by dirk gently
exactly. How much real-world difference will pci-e make immediately?
Not everyone buys a new PM every year. So the question is what will be the difference in a year or two. I got a fw800 device 1&1/2 years after I bought a fw800 mac.
We had the very same discussion when AGP came out. Ask those with a PCI mobo how happy they were to buy a Radeon 7000 PCI at the price of a Radeon 8500 AGP.
I wasn't
And you don't think the same will happen with AGP/PCI-E?
at least that's what they use in p/c workstations.
In answer to SLI and dual core graphics,
Has anyone else considered a possibility of X32 PCI-E
It that even possible? Just curious.
I tried to think what else might be reasonably possible at WWDC.
One nifty item that might get a bit of attention would be true 64 bit
audio production capabilities.
I'm reminded of a fairly recent thread where Apple trademarked "ProBand"
We also haven't yet see Asteroid and there could be more than one incarnation. X2 I/O, X8, X12 or better.
We do know that a fully compatible breakout box would be highly
desirable.
We know that Apple has a few display quality issues to deal with
and still don't know how they might address the popularity
of HDTV.
We should also keep in mind that the license for Microsoft Office
is reaching term and there may be something up their sleeves in
that department as an improvement to iWork. Maybe iWork Pro.
Games? No clue.
One thing is for sure, that the longer they keep us in suspense
the more we're going to expect of them.
Let's hope it starts with dual core.
Originally posted by emig647
I'll bite that in 2+ years it will be hard to get an AGP card that is modern... but before that time span I dont' see any significance to the upgrade cycle for a graphics card anyways.
But I don't think anyone is going to be making any new AGP cards aside from what they may have from leftover parts/stock.
Being that all major application developers are aware of PCI-E, (and SLI) I think (I would hope) they are gearing up their applications for it where they can.
Every new PC is going to be shipping with PCI-E shortly, if they all are not already. By the look of all new motherboards, and PC's, manufacturers are saying PCI-E is ready now.
PC dominance is where trends are being set now a days, and they are all ready for PCI-E. That is what tells all (intelligent) major developers where they need to update their efforts. I'm sure it's already being worked on by all major application developers.
It would be a mistake to watch another PowerMac revision roll out without PCI-E. This system would be passed on by the majority of PowerMac users, and new buyers for sure.
Putting only an AGP slot in a PowerMac revision is like soldering the graphics card to it's motherboard. That machine would have no possible future. I think that would be a huge mistake on Apples part.
So saying that having agp in the next revision is like having a soldered graphics card... its not. There will be new agp cards released in the next 1-2 years for macs as well as PCs.
Also not all pc manufacturers are shipping with PCI-E, infact a smaller percentage are than not. Go look at HP, Dell, Gateway etc websites. Look at the configs on their desktops... 8 out of 10 are still agp based. This doesn't mean this won't change in the next few months, i'm sure it will. But for one... AMD boards are JUST NOW getting PCI-Express slots on them. Intel was the creator of PCI-E.. or not? Maybe they were just the first to adopt it. But they have had PCI-E intel boards for about 3-4 months now. NOt a very long time at all.
The technology is still young, there was a time when agp was young and pci was still being used... we're at the same time between agp and pci-e. Just as pci cards were made for a few years following agp, agp cards will be made for a few years following pci-e.
Originally posted by emig647
Actually the last update cycle took 11 months. The machines were announced (the original g5) the first week of july (at wwdc) and updated last year (rev b g5) the first week of june... almost exactly 11 months. Them adding a dual 1.8 to the line up 4 months into the announcement doesn't make it a refresh.
???
6/2004
11/2003
6/2003
1/2003
8/2002
1/2002
From http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/
From top down I see 7mo., 5mo., 5mo., 5mo., 7mo.
Or June 2004, November 2004, June 2003, January 2003, August 2002, and January 2002. Where did you get 11 months? Maybe between major revisions but, this wait has been 8 months without even a minor update. I think that WWDC will be muy major!
OK I can read now, you are questioning the 11/2003 announcement of the 1.8. I can buy that.