And like I said. In the original Powermac g5 case they didn't have the option. They needed all the space they could get for cooling. Now that chips are running cooler and they have better cooling options that take up less space (liquid) they can open up the case more to other components.
This was my whole point, the case will be redesigned and opened up for the next rev. Guarantee you they will ALL be liquid cooled as well. This will allow them to use the same case across the line with the same amount of expandibility.
It made no sense to redesign a case last time... for 1 version of the machine. Just wait, you'll see they will be at least 4xhard drive storage. Whether they move to dual optical is another question, I don't think they believe there is enough of a demand for it. I have to agree... If people really need it they can go buy an external drive for 100 bucks. Right now at macmall you can get a 16x dual layer dvd drive for 120 and a 20 dollar mail in rebate (EXTERNAL).
First off where is your proof that that is a 2.2ghz stock processor overclocked in those machines? As I recall this was a "thought" that was brought up on the board... no proof has ever been identified about this. Personally I think its BS, they have 2.3ghz procs in the XServe W/O WATERCOOLING.
Have you ever heard an Xserve? You can get half a dozen (or more) Power Mac G5's together and they still wouldn't match an Xserve in noise. Lets try not gauging noise of anything based on high-power 1U servers, thanks.
As far as Power Macs go, they can do better both in their size and noise. I can see more liquid cooling (with AppleCare, who cares) in future models and a much smaller case. If they use lower heat chips, incorporate further liquid cooling and heat-pipes they can shrink the size of their huge computer considerably making it even quieter.
And like I said. In the original Powermac g5 case they didn't have the option. They needed all the space they could get for cooling. Now that chips are running cooler and they have better cooling options that take up less space (liquid) they can open up the case more to other components.
This was my whole point, the case will be redesigned and opened up for the next rev. Guarantee you they will ALL be liquid cooled as well. This will allow them to use the same case across the line with the same amount of expandibility.
It made no sense to redesign a case last time... for 1 version of the machine. Just wait, you'll see they will be at least 4xhard drive storage. Whether they move to dual optical is another question, I don't think they believe there is enough of a demand for it. I have to agree... If people really need it they can go buy an external drive for 100 bucks. Right now at macmall you can get a 16x dual layer dvd drive for 120 and a 20 dollar mail in rebate (EXTERNAL).
I'm not a dual optical user either. Some people apparently use them for some reason, but I am not one of them. I'm actually curious to see what happens with the next revision of the G5. Because I have no idea where they are headed anymore.
Have you ever heard an Xserve? You can get half a dozen (or more) Power Mac G5's together and they still wouldn't match an Xserve in noise. Lets try not gauging noise of anything based on high-power 1U servers, thanks.
As far as Power Macs go, they can do better both in their size and noise. I can see more liquid cooling (with AppleCare, who cares) in future models and a much smaller case. If they use lower heat chips, incorporate further liquid cooling and heat-pipes they can shrink the size of their huge computer considerably making it even quieter.
I don't know wtf you are talking about for the g5 noise. I have a rev b dual 2.0 g5 and those fans hardly EVER speed up. I'm constently compiling and rendering graphics. Yes the XServes are loud, they are in a 1.5" case wth do you expect. Jesus.
But as far as noise on the Powermacs, they are by far the quietest computers I have EVER heard besides the fanless iMacs way back when. Perhaps this is specific to the rev Bs. Maybe the Rev As are loud but my Rev B is definitely NOT loud.
I don't know wtf you are talking about for the g5 noise. I have a rev b dual 2.0 g5 and those fans hardly EVER speed up. I'm constently compiling and rendering graphics. Yes the XServes are loud, they are in a 1.5" case wth do you expect. Jesus.
Since the 2.3 GHz Xserve was mentioned I was speaking about the Dual 2.5 GHz Power Mac which I've heard from many users as being loud. Your Dual 2.0 and the 1.8 are _much_ quieter machines.
Since the 2.3 GHz Xserve was mentioned I was speaking about the Dual 2.5 GHz Power Mac which I've heard from many users as being loud. Your Dual 2.0 and the 1.8 are _much_ quieter machines.
The Dual 2.5 has liquid cooling which is much quieter than fans. Are you sure you know what your talking about?
The Dual 2.5 has liquid cooling which is much quieter than fans. Are you sure you know what your talking about?
Yeah, he does. Sadly the Dual 2.5 has some fan issues. The fans rev up and come on more often than on the Dual 2.0. Yes, that seems backwards. There is a LOONG discussion about this over at Macintouch. Really weird stuff... like the fans turning on full blast while you are scrolling in a big window. Etc.
Yeah, he does. Sadly the Dual 2.5 has some fan issues. The fans rev up and come on more often than on the Dual 2.0. Yes, that seems backwards. There is a LOONG discussion about this over at Macintouch. Really weird stuff... like the fans turning on full blast while you are scrolling in a big window. Etc.
These problems helped convince me to buy the 2.0.
-beagle
I thought I heard they took care of that fan issue in a software update a long time ago.
Liquid cooling only moves the heat to a radiator, which is then cooled by fans blowing across it.
I have a lowly single 1.6, and it makes almost no sound at all despite its 8 fans. I also have a PC with something like 7 fans in it, and it sounds like a dishwasher. Very disconcerting for a former Cube user.
Because people are not buying as many of them as fast as apple anticipated, and they are hoping that this will spawn sales growth. You think?
What on earth makes you think that sales are less than expected? They can't make minis fast enough. This is the first time I have heard it suggested that sales of the mini are less than stellar. Am I missing something?
By the way, count me in as one of those who believes that the glory days of the tower form factor are in the past.
It's not so much that towers are no longer teh end all be all... it's just that thick headed CEOs are starting to realize that there are 4 or 5 discrete markets they've been trying to describe (or serve) as one.
Or more rationally Steve decided not to play in to the foolish notion of "Sell them a big machine with loves of places they can plug stuff in that will do little to nothing beyond confuse their computer experience further, so we can make money on the value adds."
Which they rarely actually make money on btw, as a total percentage of unit sales.
Some people will spend more because they'll be buying new computers rather than upgrading; but don't let their vocal nature fool you, this is the minority, in the extreme.
I thought I heard they took care of that fan issue in a software update a long time ago.
Unless "long time ago" was a two months, then no. I was reading long threads all over the net and they are still complaining. But like I said, I can only go by what they tell me. Only Mac I have at home is a Cube.
Unless "long time ago" was a two months, then no. I was reading long threads all over the net and they are still complaining. But like I said, I can only go by what they tell me. Only Mac I have at home is a Cube.
The fun thing is that it's inconsistent. Some Dual 2.5 owners are very happy.
What on earth makes you think that sales are less than expected? They can't make minis fast enough. This is the first time I have heard it suggested that sales of the mini are less than stellar. Am I missing something?
By the way, count me in as one of those who believes that the glory days of the tower form factor are in the past.
When has Apple ever had enough units to sell right after announcement... Ever? This is common.
It looks like Apple manufactured enough minis to ship the first wave of orders while waiting to hear the general feedback before making a few tweaks to address any problems.
The public has now spoken and Apple is now fully aware that people
DO want that extra RAM as well as an option to upgrade the GPU.
The priority was to make an affordable consumer product
that would give people a chance to try Mac OSX. That they did.
The sudden onslaught of Dell and HP ads for their cheap entry level machines shows that Apple is certainly shaking the trees.
The media blitz on the mini is certainly fueling defensive countermeasures by the Wintel alliance.
I can only imagine that the mini will morph with the release of Tiger
to a very strong contender in the marketplace.
In the mean time, the Pro users are still faced with difficult decisions.
As Programmer stated, the current hardware will not accept an upgrade
to PCI-Express because PCI-E will replace AGP
and the technology needed to manufacture some version
of a 90nm dual core upgrade to the existing towers makes that option unlikely.
The pressure on Apple to upgrade the PowerBooks and the G5 towers is unrelenting, so all we can do now is wait for these improvements to materialize.
OR...We have the option of writing to Apple directly with our input.
If we consider the radical innovations we have seen if less than a year
to the iMacG5 and the Mac mini, we can only hope that Apple will offer
something equally innovative in the next generation of PowerMacs.
Comments
And like I said. In the original Powermac g5 case they didn't have the option. They needed all the space they could get for cooling. Now that chips are running cooler and they have better cooling options that take up less space (liquid) they can open up the case more to other components.
This was my whole point, the case will be redesigned and opened up for the next rev. Guarantee you they will ALL be liquid cooled as well. This will allow them to use the same case across the line with the same amount of expandibility.
It made no sense to redesign a case last time... for 1 version of the machine. Just wait, you'll see they will be at least 4xhard drive storage. Whether they move to dual optical is another question, I don't think they believe there is enough of a demand for it. I have to agree... If people really need it they can go buy an external drive for 100 bucks. Right now at macmall you can get a 16x dual layer dvd drive for 120 and a 20 dollar mail in rebate (EXTERNAL).
Originally posted by emig647
First off where is your proof that that is a 2.2ghz stock processor overclocked in those machines? As I recall this was a "thought" that was brought up on the board... no proof has ever been identified about this. Personally I think its BS, they have 2.3ghz procs in the XServe W/O WATERCOOLING.
Have you ever heard an Xserve? You can get half a dozen (or more) Power Mac G5's together and they still wouldn't match an Xserve in noise. Lets try not gauging noise of anything based on high-power 1U servers, thanks.
As far as Power Macs go, they can do better both in their size and noise. I can see more liquid cooling (with AppleCare, who cares) in future models and a much smaller case. If they use lower heat chips, incorporate further liquid cooling and heat-pipes they can shrink the size of their huge computer considerably making it even quieter.
Originally posted by emig647
I agree....
And like I said. In the original Powermac g5 case they didn't have the option. They needed all the space they could get for cooling. Now that chips are running cooler and they have better cooling options that take up less space (liquid) they can open up the case more to other components.
This was my whole point, the case will be redesigned and opened up for the next rev. Guarantee you they will ALL be liquid cooled as well. This will allow them to use the same case across the line with the same amount of expandibility.
It made no sense to redesign a case last time... for 1 version of the machine. Just wait, you'll see they will be at least 4xhard drive storage. Whether they move to dual optical is another question, I don't think they believe there is enough of a demand for it. I have to agree... If people really need it they can go buy an external drive for 100 bucks. Right now at macmall you can get a 16x dual layer dvd drive for 120 and a 20 dollar mail in rebate (EXTERNAL).
I'm not a dual optical user either. Some people apparently use them for some reason, but I am not one of them. I'm actually curious to see what happens with the next revision of the G5. Because I have no idea where they are headed anymore.
Originally posted by IonYz
Have you ever heard an Xserve? You can get half a dozen (or more) Power Mac G5's together and they still wouldn't match an Xserve in noise. Lets try not gauging noise of anything based on high-power 1U servers, thanks.
As far as Power Macs go, they can do better both in their size and noise. I can see more liquid cooling (with AppleCare, who cares) in future models and a much smaller case. If they use lower heat chips, incorporate further liquid cooling and heat-pipes they can shrink the size of their huge computer considerably making it even quieter.
I don't know wtf you are talking about for the g5 noise. I have a rev b dual 2.0 g5 and those fans hardly EVER speed up. I'm constently compiling and rendering graphics. Yes the XServes are loud, they are in a 1.5" case wth do you expect. Jesus.
But as far as noise on the Powermacs, they are by far the quietest computers I have EVER heard besides the fanless iMacs way back when. Perhaps this is specific to the rev Bs. Maybe the Rev As are loud but my Rev B is definitely NOT loud.
Originally posted by emig647
I don't know wtf you are talking about for the g5 noise. I have a rev b dual 2.0 g5 and those fans hardly EVER speed up. I'm constently compiling and rendering graphics. Yes the XServes are loud, they are in a 1.5" case wth do you expect. Jesus.
Since the 2.3 GHz Xserve was mentioned I was speaking about the Dual 2.5 GHz Power Mac which I've heard from many users as being loud. Your Dual 2.0 and the 1.8 are _much_ quieter machines.
Originally posted by IonYz
Since the 2.3 GHz Xserve was mentioned I was speaking about the Dual 2.5 GHz Power Mac which I've heard from many users as being loud. Your Dual 2.0 and the 1.8 are _much_ quieter machines.
The Dual 2.5 has liquid cooling which is much quieter than fans. Are you sure you know what your talking about?
Originally posted by onlooker
The Dual 2.5 has liquid cooling which is much quieter than fans. Are you sure you know what your talking about?
Yeah, he does. Sadly the Dual 2.5 has some fan issues. The fans rev up and come on more often than on the Dual 2.0. Yes, that seems backwards. There is a LOONG discussion about this over at Macintouch. Really weird stuff... like the fans turning on full blast while you are scrolling in a big window. Etc.
These problems helped convince me to buy the 2.0.
-beagle
Originally posted by thebeaglebeagle
Yeah, he does. Sadly the Dual 2.5 has some fan issues. The fans rev up and come on more often than on the Dual 2.0. Yes, that seems backwards. There is a LOONG discussion about this over at Macintouch. Really weird stuff... like the fans turning on full blast while you are scrolling in a big window. Etc.
These problems helped convince me to buy the 2.0.
-beagle
I thought I heard they took care of that fan issue in a software update a long time ago.
I have a lowly single 1.6, and it makes almost no sound at all despite its 8 fans. I also have a PC with something like 7 fans in it, and it sounds like a dishwasher. Very disconcerting for a former Cube user.
Originally posted by onlooker
Because people are not buying as many of them as fast as apple anticipated, and they are hoping that this will spawn sales growth. You think?
What on earth makes you think that sales are less than expected? They can't make minis fast enough. This is the first time I have heard it suggested that sales of the mini are less than stellar. Am I missing something?
By the way, count me in as one of those who believes that the glory days of the tower form factor are in the past.
Or more rationally Steve decided not to play in to the foolish notion of "Sell them a big machine with loves of places they can plug stuff in that will do little to nothing beyond confuse their computer experience further, so we can make money on the value adds."
Which they rarely actually make money on btw, as a total percentage of unit sales.
Some people will spend more because they'll be buying new computers rather than upgrading; but don't let their vocal nature fool you, this is the minority, in the extreme.
Originally posted by onlooker
I thought I heard they took care of that fan issue in a software update a long time ago.
Unless "long time ago" was a two months, then no. I was reading long threads all over the net and they are still complaining. But like I said, I can only go by what they tell me. Only Mac I have at home is a Cube.
Originally posted by IonYz
Unless "long time ago" was a two months, then no. I was reading long threads all over the net and they are still complaining. But like I said, I can only go by what they tell me. Only Mac I have at home is a Cube.
The fun thing is that it's inconsistent. Some Dual 2.5 owners are very happy.
-b
Originally posted by Mac Voyer
What on earth makes you think that sales are less than expected? They can't make minis fast enough. This is the first time I have heard it suggested that sales of the mini are less than stellar. Am I missing something?
By the way, count me in as one of those who believes that the glory days of the tower form factor are in the past.
When has Apple ever had enough units to sell right after announcement... Ever? This is common.
The public has now spoken and Apple is now fully aware that people
DO want that extra RAM as well as an option to upgrade the GPU.
The priority was to make an affordable consumer product
that would give people a chance to try Mac OSX. That they did.
The sudden onslaught of Dell and HP ads for their cheap entry level machines shows that Apple is certainly shaking the trees.
The media blitz on the mini is certainly fueling defensive countermeasures by the Wintel alliance.
I can only imagine that the mini will morph with the release of Tiger
to a very strong contender in the marketplace.
In the mean time, the Pro users are still faced with difficult decisions.
As Programmer stated, the current hardware will not accept an upgrade
to PCI-Express because PCI-E will replace AGP
and the technology needed to manufacture some version
of a 90nm dual core upgrade to the existing towers makes that option unlikely.
The pressure on Apple to upgrade the PowerBooks and the G5 towers is unrelenting, so all we can do now is wait for these improvements to materialize.
OR...We have the option of writing to Apple directly with our input.
If we consider the radical innovations we have seen if less than a year
to the iMacG5 and the Mac mini, we can only hope that Apple will offer
something equally innovative in the next generation of PowerMacs.
Originally posted by ChevalierMalFet
God that's such BS.
Speaking of media blitzes
http://apnews.excite.com/article/200...D87T3D100.html
It's perfectly fine to express one's own opinion or discuss issues
in a hotly spirited debate, but flaming another forum member is hardly
necessary or warranted.
Also an opinion, mine.
Originally posted by thebeaglebeagle
The fun thing is that it's inconsistent. Some Dual 2.5 owners are very happy.
I'm aware of that, funny some people have pink 23" Cinema displays. Well I don't think they find it funny. But still.
do you think apple ever browse the net to see what the fans/users are saying? or do they go off and spend $ on market research every year?