Apple's HD future, the mini-mac, the big change

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 162
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    "Now not designing it to be user serviceable is not the same as designing it to not be user serviceable"



    whoa.. my brain just melted.



    ".. it was the size of this machine. This is nothing short of stunning. What a feat of engineering!"



    therein lies the genius. it is so small because that clearly distinguishes it from the usual PC beige box rubbish. it becomes a piece-de-resistance in your setup, just like that cool iPod that stands well out from your PC.



    If you are a Mac user everything is designed to blend together and give you Mac heaven.



    If you are a PC user the iPod and Mac mini is designed to give you a glimpse of heaven, like a supermodel in a crowded fishmarket.
  • Reply 62 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally posted by iRobot

    Why would they do that?



    Really, why? What's the point?



    They'll lose, it looks like, your sale and maybe one or two others.



    And those are sales that are outside their expected market anyway...



    It doesn't make sense within the scope of this product release to bother.



    They could have. I would have appreciated it.



    But they didn't. I couldn't care less. It hardly matters for a machine like this. It's a cheap box for switchers and lite users.





    Like the iPod, they didn't try to make something to be everything for everybody.







    P.S: I'm amused that when ridiculing my emphasis on "at all" you do so by asking (again!) the question I addressed with that very point... Thanks so much for reading it.




    This is the kind of stuff I am talking about "the scope of this product" "omg they will lose just your sale - like they care about you!" Could you stop smoking your apple branded crack cocaine for a moment?



    They made it this small to make it limited - We are talking an inch - so instead of four cd's jewel cases stacked on top of each other you stack on six on top of each other and now you have the size of the machine.



    It's pretty obvious you are a mac zealot who can't be reasonsed with and that you use your machine in "whatever apple had in mind" when they made the machine.



    Yes they will lose my sale and quite a few of the geeks who they are trying to get over to the mac side - yes just those people who they really want using their computers but I mean yeah it probably is just me and two other people - certainly not all those people that bought PC's instead of macs for the last 15 years - which was just me and two other people.



    Fact is - this could have the ability to use standard desktop drives and another ram slot and still be smaller than the cube - which is tiny.
  • Reply 63 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally posted by PeePeeSee

    This is the kind of stuff I am talking about "the scope of this product" "omg they will lose just your sale - like they care about you!" Could you stop smoking your apple branded crack cocaine for a moment?



    They made it this small to make it limited - We are talking an inch - so instead of four cd's jewel cases stacked on top of each other you stack on six on top of each other and now you have the size of the machine.



    It's pretty obvious you are a mac zealot who can't be reasonsed with and that you use your machine in "whatever apple had in mind" when they made the machine.



    Yes they will lose my sale and quite a few of the geeks who they are trying to get over to the mac side - yes just those people who they really want using their computers but I mean yeah it probably is just me and two other people - certainly not all those people that bought PC's instead of macs for the last 15 years - which was just me and two other people.



    Fact is - this could have the ability to use standard desktop drives and another ram slot and still be smaller than the cube - which is tiny.






    I'm hardly a mac zealot.



    I don't even own a mac.





    Why don't I own a mac? Because the powerbook is unnacceptably out of date. I would agree with you whole heartedly if you said it was totally gimped





    But the mac mini? It does everything its supposed to do.





    Point is, you can't expect a company to make a product that does everything that everyone wants.



    They made this for a specific and good purpose, and it'll function for that well.



    Are you the type of person that thinks the iPod should also play video, have a user replaceable battery, an fm transmitter, and cook f-ing waffles?



    The product is not gimped just because it doesn't do everything you want it to do.
  • Reply 64 of 162
    vinney57vinney57 Posts: 1,162member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by PeePeeSee

    This is the kind of stuff I am talking about "the scope of this product" "omg they will lose just your sale - like they care about you!" Could you stop smoking your apple branded crack cocaine for a moment?



    They made it this small to make it limited - We are talking an inch - so instead of four cd's jewel cases stacked on top of each other you stack on six on top of each other and now you have the size of the machine.



    It's pretty obvious you are a mac zealot who can't be reasonsed with and that you use your machine in "whatever apple had in mind" when they made the machine.



    Yes they will lose my sale and quite a few of the geeks who they are trying to get over to the mac side - yes just those people who they really want using their computers but I mean yeah it probably is just me and two other people - certainly not all those people that bought PC's instead of macs for the last 15 years - which was just me and two other people.



    Fact is - this could have the ability to use standard desktop drives and another ram slot and still be smaller than the cube - which is tiny.




    Read Programmer's excellent post and try and get a clue...otherwise shut up and go away.
  • Reply 65 of 162
    Apple could build the fastest, Swiss Army Knife of all computers with every possible option available, sweetest, most secure OS and GUI on the planet, for $1,500 and some jealous self deficating virus and malware ridden Windows user is going to find fault with it.!



    Most of us here are attempting very kindly

    to enlighten other users about a very pleasant alternative

    to Microsoft based computing.



    We are just as eager to see Apple products improve as any one,

    but what they've done so far is remarkable.



    The Mac mini allows any user to easily switch CPUs between Mac OSX and Windows using the same keyboard, mouse and monitor via a KVM switch.

    They've made this possibility very affordable and attractive to those

    who may wish to run both platforms.



    No it's not perfect, but it's very cool.
  • Reply 66 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally posted by iRobot

    I'm hardly a mac zealot.



    I don't even own a mac.





    Why don't I own a mac? Because the powerbook is unnacceptably out of date. I would agree with you whole heartedly if you said it was totally gimped





    But the mac mini? It does everything its supposed to do.





    Point is, you can't expect a company to make a product that does everything that everyone wants.



    They made this for a specific and good purpose, and it'll function for that well.



    Are you the type of person that thinks the iPod should also play video, have a user replaceable battery, an fm transmitter, and cook f-ing waffles?



    The product is not gimped just because it doesn't do everything you want it to do.




    No I am not that kind of person - but it's a desktop computer - it should use desktop parts and it easily could do so.
  • Reply 67 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally posted by vinney57

    Read Programmer's excellent post and try and get a clue...otherwise shut up and go away.



    Whatever you say zealot.
  • Reply 68 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally posted by PeePeeSee

    Whatever you say zealot.





    That was real mature.
  • Reply 69 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally posted by PeePeeSee

    No I am not that kind of person - but it's a desktop computer - it should use desktop parts and it easily could do so.



    I don't know how old you are, but I'm old enough to have heard all manner of similar comments WRT moving from 5.25" to 3.5" hard drives, 8" to 5.25" floppies, command lines to GUIs and on and on even YEARS of vitriol over those lazy programmers that insist on using C or Pascal over assembly (ever meet a programmer that could read a stream of hex?). Even in the Mac world - ADB to USB, OS 9 to OS X, NuBus to PCI, and on and on and on.



    Every time somebody steps out of the bounds of what some folk consider 'standard' there's this same "But you should have!" tossed out there. (No wireless. Less storage than a Nomad. Lame.) Sometimes they're right - sometimes that step was the wrong one - but you have to wait and see.



    I think there will be something incredibly compelling to a PC user going into an Apple Store to buy an iPod when the see the mini at the same price and in a smaller box than the iPod. They can't possibly avoid the comparison between this small $500 box that everybody raves about and this *other* $500 box sitting next to it. How can they not wonder "What if that box there is every bit as fun and easy as this box here"?
  • Reply 70 of 162
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by PeePeeSee

    No I am not that kind of person - but it's a desktop computer - it should use desktop parts and it easily could do so.



    i don't think you can think of the Mac mini as a "desktop computer" as such... that's apple's plan, it's a bit of an experiment, to challenge traditional boundaries.



    like johnsonwaxed (was that painful? ) said, the small form factor is to draw as strong a connection to the iPod as possible, since they've seen the iPod coexist happily with PCs. now... can the Mac mini coexist happily with PeeSee users? Maybe, possibly. As long as you have HL2 and Doom3 annd UT2004 on your PC to continue enjoying that, maybe for everything else, you would really enjoy using a Mac. KVM switch is awesome to not have to get a separate keyboard monitor and mouse
  • Reply 71 of 162
    synpsynp Posts: 248member
    I think we're barking at the wrong tree. For years people have been saying that Apple needs a cheap headless. Well, Apple has delivered. It's a little weak, has a limited disk, and only one memory slot, so some people want it to have higher specs. They want a bigger, replaceable disk, two memory slots, etc.



    I think this is the wrong approach. It's better to realize that Apple's desktop lineup of headless Macs has changed. Now there's the Mac Mini in addition to all those towers. I think the future common complaint should not be that the Mini is too weak - it's fine for its price. The future complaint should be that Apple has a huge gap in its headless lineup:



    - high-end Mini: $600 1.4GHz G4

    - bottom-end PM: $1500 1.8 GHz G5 with fast FSB, better GPU, etc.



    There should be some middle-ground in there. Perhaps something somewhat larger (8"x8"x2.5") with a single 1.6 GHz G5, two RAM slots and FX 5200. Only the hard disk and memory would be officially upgradeable, but of course there would be the options of BT and Wifi. This is basically an iMac without the screen. I think Apple can make them for $900-$1000.
  • Reply 72 of 162
    I think many of us would like to see a clearance sale

    on 1.8 single processor G5 towers.



    If they could bring the far more upgradable G5 phat cube

    to a starting point of $999.00



    They would sell like hotcakes!
  • Reply 73 of 162
    rolandgrolandg Posts: 632member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by synp

    The future complaint should be that Apple has a huge gap in its headless lineup:



    - high-end Mini: $600 1.4GHz G4

    - bottom-end PM: $1500 1.8 GHz G5 with fast FSB, better GPU, etc.




    So true. This was exactly my thought.



    Quote:

    Originally posted by synp

    Perhaps something somewhat larger (8"x8"x2.5") with a single 1.6 GHz G5, two RAM slots and FX 5200.



    Three thoughts:



    - this would basically mean the end of the iMac,

    - please do not increase the footprint as I hope peripheral companies will be making accessoirs (HDDs, networking gear, USB/FW hubs, TV tuners etc.) in stackable cases matching the Mac mini's.

    - people (especially on these boards) would be complaining about the specs (the GPU in particular), and they are right: Apple should be moving to PCIe across the board.
  • Reply 74 of 162
    cubistcubist Posts: 954member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by PeePeeSee

    ... Yes they will lose my sale and quite a few of the geeks who they are trying to get over to the mac side - ...



    I can't believe how long this thread is, harping on this 2.5 vs 3.5 inch hard drive. Haven't you guys got anything better to do? And if some of you would actually refuse to buy the computer because of the hard drive size, for crying out loud, go start your own computer company and make your own computer. 999 people out of a thousand couldn't give a damn.
  • Reply 75 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally posted by cubist

    I can't believe how long this thread is, harping on this 2.5 vs 3.5 inch hard drive. Haven't you guys got anything better to do? And if some of you would actually refuse to buy the computer because of the hard drive size, for crying out loud, go start your own computer company and make your own computer. 999 people out of a thousand couldn't give a damn.



    You are on a mac rumor message board website posting about how we haven't got anything better to do - when you are posting right along side us - Do you not see the irony in that?



    And actually - YOU ARE WRONG - most people WANT to upgrade their stuff - they don't want to spend lots of money on another machine.



    I swear this place is full of mac nazi's who march in lock step.
  • Reply 76 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally posted by johnsonwax

    I don't know how old you are, but I'm old enough to have heard all manner of similar comments WRT moving from 5.25" to 3.5" hard drives, 8" to 5.25" floppies, command lines to GUIs and on and on even YEARS of vitriol over those lazy programmers that insist on using C or Pascal over assembly (ever meet a programmer that could read a stream of hex?). Even in the Mac world - ADB to USB, OS 9 to OS X, NuBus to PCI, and on and on and on.



    Every time somebody steps out of the bounds of what some folk consider 'standard' there's this same "But you should have!" tossed out there. (No wireless. Less storage than a Nomad. Lame.) Sometimes they're right - sometimes that step was the wrong one - but you have to wait and see.



    I think there will be something incredibly compelling to a PC user going into an Apple Store to buy an iPod when the see the mini at the same price and in a smaller box than the iPod. They can't possibly avoid the comparison between this small $500 box that everybody raves about and this *other* $500 box sitting next to it. How can they not wonder "What if that box there is every bit as fun and easy as this box here"?




    Well let me just say that I was for adb -> usb for nubus -> pci for OS 9 -> OS X for Floppy -> CDRW and for quite a few other things I really actually like it when Apple does things like that - I am not one of the people who think JUST because something is standard it should stay that way - but in this case we aren't talking about those kinds of things - I mean it just doesn't make sense - It's one inch - that's not for design purposes - that's for a reason.



    Currently you can get 3.5" drives in far far larger sizes for about the same prices as 2.5" drives - The size is so different that we can now start doing all kind of other things that we couldn't before - like recording HDTV or putting your entire collection of music on your computer in lossless formats - scan all your photos at the highest resolutions.



    It's just a bad move for the user.
  • Reply 77 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally posted by sunilraman

    i don't think you can think of the Mac mini as a "desktop computer" as such... that's apple's plan, it's a bit of an experiment, to challenge traditional boundaries.



    like johnsonwaxed (was that painful? ) said, the small form factor is to draw as strong a connection to the iPod as possible, since they've seen the iPod coexist happily with PCs. now... can the Mac mini coexist happily with PeeSee users? Maybe, possibly. As long as you have HL2 and Doom3 annd UT2004 on your PC to continue enjoying that, maybe for everything else, you would really enjoy using a Mac. KVM switch is awesome to not have to get a separate keyboard monitor and mouse




    Well I don't know what to tell you but it is a desktop computer.



    I still don't get this iPod like stuff - just seems like some poectic waxing type stuff but whatever - ok fine apple had this mantra/philosophy about the iPod and this computer whatever ok - All I am asking for is an extra inch to use a standard hard drive in the thing if I want to - you don't have to do a damn thing - I mean is that really THAT much to ask for?



    Instead of four cd's - stack six on top of each other - OH MY GOD look at the size of it now - this is just too much! The price will have to increase ten fold - the shipping will rise through the roof - oh man now it looks just akward for being SO tall.



    I know I am being silly but - this IS silly.
  • Reply 78 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally posted by PeePeeSee

    Well I don't know what to tell you but it is a desktop computer.



    I still don't get this iPod like stuff - just seems like some poectic waxing type stuff but whatever - ok fine apple had this mantra/philosophy about the iPod and this computer whatever ok - All I am asking for is an extra inch to use a standard hard drive in the thing if I want to - you don't have to do a damn thing - I mean is that really THAT much to ask for?



    Instead of four cd's - stack six on top of each other - OH MY GOD look at the size of it now - this is just too much! The price will have to increase ten fold - the shipping will rise through the roof - oh man now it looks just akward for being SO tall.



    I know I am being silly but - this IS silly.




    peepeesee i am not saying that your point about 3.5" drive is invalid. i think that you may have a point. Apple is not perfect, and perhaps they could have used a 3.5" drive instead of 2.5" and still met the objectives they have...
  • Reply 79 of 162
    rhumgodrhumgod Posts: 1,289member
    Mac mini misconceptions:



    1. The thing can be stacked.



    Read Apple's tech support document on that topic here.



    2. The Mac Mini was designed as a home theater solution.



    Wrong again. It was a way to get people clammoring for cheaper macs exactly what they wanted.



    3. The 2.5" HD is too slow for digital video.



    You can get a Superdrive in one and use iMovie/iDVD. All of Apple's PowerBooks come with 4200rpm drives, unless upgraded. Come on people!
  • Reply 80 of 162
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Rhumgod

    Mac mini misconceptions:



    2. The Mac Mini was designed as a home theater solution.



    Wrong again. It was a way to get people clammoring for cheaper macs exactly what they wanted.









    I don't think anyone is saying that it was designed to be a home theater solution but more that it easily COULD be one and that people want it and this machine is the closest thing to being one and could be one with a few changes.
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