a Spreadsheet.app in iWork?

Posted:
in Mac Software edited January 2014
how much time do you think will pass before apple adds a Spreadsheet app into iWork? mmm, no before WWDC'05?



any comments?
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 21
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,162member
    Not until MWSF 2006. At that time Appleworks will be put to death.
  • Reply 2 of 21
    ybotybot Posts: 329member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    Not until MWSF 2006. At that time Appleworks will be put to death.



    I'd say a year is a fair amount of time for Apple to finish the other components to iWork. I could see them launching iWork '06: Now with spreadsheet and database capabilities!(C)" at MWSF 2006.
  • Reply 3 of 21
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,773member
    MWSF '06 is the logical date.



    But if iWork is to start to make inroads into the Education sector, then sometime before June 2005 would be smarter.
  • Reply 4 of 21
    rraburrabu Posts: 239member
    Might require CoreData to be present? I wonder if iWorks 2 will be Tiger only and used as an incentive to get people to upgrade?
  • Reply 5 of 21
    rokrok Posts: 3,519member
    heck, it might not even be until WWDC of '06. i don't have the marketing numbers experience to really know what i am talking about, but i have a hunch there is a so-called "magic-number" of installed os upgrades that apple wants to hit first before launching any "incentive" deals to drive it over that hump. something like they want those who are already going to upgrade anyway to let them, get that cash, and THEN offer something to sweeten the deal and encourage holdouts.



    what that magic number is, though, only they know. but it will be at least 6-8 months after tiger is released, if not a full year. anything earlier than that, and i will be happily shocked.
  • Reply 6 of 21
    I don't know that they will release one that soon. And if they do, it would almost have to suck to be economically viable.



    Apple doesn't want to compete with MS Office. They need MS Office; MS Office is a major factor in people being willing to switch, both at home and in the office.



    And while Microsoft makes money off MS Office [not to mention off their interest in Apple's stock], I'm sure they'd have no problem pulling it if Apple started to violate their relationship.



    So I think Apple's gonna take it slow. Develop apps that won't replace MS Office, until iWork's MS Office compatibility is so established that they don't need Office to get switchers any longer.
  • Reply 7 of 21
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,773member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by jgpippin

    I don't know that they will release one that soon. And if they do, it would almost have to suck to be economically viable.



    Apple doesn't want to compete with MS Office. They need MS Office; MS Office is a major factor in people being willing to switch, both at home and in the office.



    And while Microsoft makes money off MS Office [not to mention off their interest in Apple's stock], I'm sure they'd have no problem pulling it if Apple started to violate their relationship.



    So I think Apple's gonna take it slow. Develop apps that won't replace MS Office, until iWork's MS Office compatibility is so established that they don't need Office to get switchers any longer.




    Nobody expects Apple to have anymore than basic spreadsheet functionality iWork, implemented in a stylish way. Even Bill Gates was unconcerned in a recent interview about iWork, saying that Apple has always had a "Works-type product that wasn't all that low-end".



    Cells needs to be Cocoa, integrated with Pages and Keynote and maybe include some kind of spreadsheet/database merger, if Apple wants to get really daring.



    Now if Apple implemented its own serious Exchange functionality in Mail/AB/iCal, or started promoting iWork as a replacement for Office in large enterprises, that would be war.



    iWork is for the Consumer and SOHO markets. As long as it stays there, and doesn't sprout a Windows version, Microsoft's main enemy will be OpenOffice for Windows, which is the bigger threat to MS' margins.
  • Reply 8 of 21
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,219member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by jgpippin

    ....



    And while Microsoft makes money off MS Office [not to mention off their interest in Apple's stock], I'm sure they'd have no problem pulling it if Apple started to violate their relationship.



    ....




    Microsoft sold its Apple stock years ago.
  • Reply 9 of 21
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,162member
    Ahhh people that need Office will get office. That's not an excuse for Apple not finishing iWork off with Spreadsheet/Database and other features. The Mac platform is not going to be a desirable switching target if it has incomplete productivity suites.



    I'd like to see Apple make a "spreadsheet for the rest of us" we all know Excel gurus but let the common man or woman become a spreadsheet pro with half the work.



    I'm thinking in terms of a "Quantrix Modeler" lite. www.quantrix.com. Excel is NOT intuitive. Apple needs to find that magical mix that makes using a DB and spreadsheet as easy as typing up a page. I can and will give them the necessary time to get these programs ready. I'm thinking MWSF 2006 would be a nice coming out party.
  • Reply 10 of 21
    maccrazymaccrazy Posts: 2,657member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    Ahhh people that need Office will get office. That's not an excuse for Apple not finishing iWork off with Spreadsheet/Database and other features. The Mac platform is not going to be a desirable switching target if it has incomplete productivity suites.



    I'd like to see Apple make a "spreadsheet for the rest of us" we all know Excel gurus but let the common man or woman become a spreadsheet pro with half the work.



    I'm thinking in terms of a "Quantrix Modeler" lite. www.quantrix.com. Excel is NOT intuitive. Apple needs to find that magical mix that makes using a DB and spreadsheet as easy as typing up a page. I can and will give them the necessary time to get these programs ready. I'm thinking MWSF 2006 would be a nice coming out party.




    Excel is probably the best component of Office 2004, word is too anoying with the auto chaning annoying paperclip; and PowerPoint sucks! Excel is so much better than AppleWorks spreadsheet, where as word and AppleWorks word processor aren't that far apart (AppleWorks is less annoying, but less advanced!).
  • Reply 11 of 21
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,162member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by MacCrazy

    Excel is probably the best component of Office 2004, word is too anoying with the auto chaning annoying paperclip; and PowerPoint sucks! Excel is so much better than AppleWorks spreadsheet, where as word and AppleWorks word processor aren't that far apart (AppleWorks is less annoying, but less advanced!).



    Yes indeed. Excel is a solid app. Apple need not create an Excel clone but rather make working with spreadsheets a little more palatable for some of us people. They could also make the spreadsheet templates so much better looking.



    Make it fun.
  • Reply 12 of 21
    maccrazymaccrazy Posts: 2,657member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    Yes indeed. Excel is a solid app. Apple need not create an Excel clone but rather make working with spreadsheets a little more palatable for some of us people. They could also make the spreadsheet templates so much better looking.



    Make it fun.




    yeah ok make it fun, fine. I really hate templates though!!! Being a designer I think everyone should be more creative, you can tell when someone's made a business card and used publisher! I don't like the template culture. I'm about to get a new computer and use iDVD, i hope you don't have to use templates there. I can understand people like starting points but I want to be free to express my own creativity as well. PowerPoint is a pain for not using a template. You have to select blank all the time.
  • Reply 13 of 21
    Quote:

    Originally posted by MacCrazy

    yeah ok make it fun, fine. I really hate templates though!!! Being a designer I think everyone should be more creative



    well then i think designers should be more realistic... and less elitist
  • Reply 14 of 21
    maccrazymaccrazy Posts: 2,657member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by nathan22t

    well then i think designers should be more realistic... and less elitist



    I'm not being elitist, I don't think templates are good, everyone has creativity in them, they should use it, if i was elitist I would encourage templates for non-designers. I can see the advantages in a basic set-up. But how difficult is it to make a text box, why bother to use a template? Every-time I've used a template in my childhood my designs were worse than when I did it myself. I'm sure this is the same for most people. Also templates save me no time.
  • Reply 15 of 21
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    MacCrazy, as a programmer, I think that most people should write their own applications so they get exactly what they want, instead of settling for what someone else thinks they should have.



    I mean, it'd certainly be a better result, right?



    I'm glad you have such faith in your fellow human beings, but most people have neither the talent nor the time to generate excellent designs. Templates are good in many respects, not the least of which is showing people what the program is *capable* of. If that fires their imagination, great, but most users, when faced with a blank page in a new app, have no idea what to do with it. Templates show them what they can do, and get them going quickly. Then, if they have the inclination and time, they can edit them or create their own.
  • Reply 16 of 21
    maccrazymaccrazy Posts: 2,657member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Kickaha

    MacCrazy, as a programmer, I think that most people should write their own applications so they get exactly what they want, instead of settling for what someone else thinks they should have.



    I mean, it'd certainly be a better result, right?



    I'm glad you have such faith in your fellow human beings, but most people have neither the talent nor the time to generate excellent designs. Templates are good in many respects, not the least of which is showing people what the program is *capable* of. If that fires their imagination, great, but most users, when faced with a blank page in a new app, have no idea what to do with it. Templates show them what they can do, and get them going quickly. Then, if they have the inclination and time, they can edit them or create their own.




    Programming is a different kettle of fish but I understand what you're saying.



    I know templates give flexibility and make tasks less daunting, but take PowerPoint for example, the template is two text boxes central, not difficult but time-saving. (I know they make proper templates as well) I don't know what I'm trying to say but I just like to be able to do things myself. As long as I can do that I'm happy.
  • Reply 17 of 21
    as i have said elsewhere, and i agree with most of you. Excel is THE spreadsheet app. no need to enter that market. There is already a good database app, filemaker.



    what is needed is an app for statistics, and I hope apple can come up with something that is a mix of spreadsheet, database + stastics.



    well, iWork '06 is going to be interesting.
  • Reply 18 of 21
    maccrazymaccrazy Posts: 2,657member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by dividend

    as i have said elsewhere, and i agree with most of you. Excel is THE spreadsheet app. no need to enter that market. There is already a good database app, filemaker.



    what is needed is an app for statistics, and I hope apple can come up with something that is a mix of spreadsheet, database + stastics.



    well, iWork '06 is going to be interesting.




    AppleWorks has a reasonably solid Database, better than Access anyway. I would like to see Apple make a cells program, a database and then AppleWorks has been updated. I don't know if we'll see iWorks '06. I know Apple people like to update more regularly than PC users but yearly can get quite expensive, OS updates have been slowed down. Although iWorks is only £50 compared to Office which is £300!
  • Reply 19 of 21
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,162member
    Quote:

    as i have said elsewhere, and i agree with most of you. Excel is THE spreadsheet app. no need to enter that market. There is already a good database app, filemaker.



    I don't kow if I'd agree with this sentiment. Excel is a good spreadsheet app but there is always the potential to do things in a more efficient way. Quantrix is onto this by melding a DB with a Spreadsheet front end (I've heard others have done this as well). Consumers need something a bit more "friendly" and hell toss in those statistic features as well.



    Innovate often Apple.
  • Reply 20 of 21
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,773member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by MacCrazy

    AppleWorks has a reasonably solid Database, better than Access anyway.



    AppleWorks had fairly solid functionality across the board.



    As one of the people who kept clamoring for an update to AppleWorks, I should admit the app was just old, not broken.



    I would have been happy with an update that kept the same functionality intact, but was built in Cocoa and used Mac OS X technologies along with some spruced up icons.



    The fact that fonts didn't show as cleanly in Appleworks - along with the problem of not having access to OS X's transparency features - was the main reason the app felt old and unusable.



    I was never under any illusion that Apple was going to compete head to head with Office. I don't need most of those high-end features anyway.



    But now that we've been given a "replacement" for Appleworks that's clearly incomplete and changes the file format, I'm wondering how much better off we are in the productivity arena. At least until 2006.
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